How should history be taught in high school?

[Stuffshot]

The curriculum cited was high school. It sounds anti american. I am tired of our tax dollars foing to fund discontent for this country.

Wow. In your past posts, you made it sound like you think freedom of religion for you means no freedom for other religions.

Keep in mind Virginia, Connecticut and Rhode Island had state religions in ~1787 that were "Christian" and they all took a big hit with ratification of the First Amendment of the Constitution. At that time, Islam was not one of the state religions targeted by the First Amendment. (See above.)

I don't accept casual references to something that someone claims "sounds anti-American" without more detail why that is true.

 

[Stuffshot]

Now if we only could agree on what made us great up to this time and should we change anything as we look to the future ?

What made America great? Easy.

Unlimited natural resources after the Revolution,

Distance. The Atlantic is big -- Britain couldn't dominate all of it after the Revolution.

No fear of the strongest European power after the truce with Britain (Britain never surrendered or conceded after Yorktown as I recall).

Britain's preoccupation with its perennial enemy (France) after the Revolution instead of the U.S.

The U.S.'s large growth in population in the years after the Revolution.

Andrew Jackson defeating the British near New Orleans in 1814.

After that, the United States became a 19th Century juggernaut that never quit.

After WWII, the U.S. economy was about the only game in town because the following countries were then bankrupt: Britain, Germany (duh), France, Italy, Greece, Japan, plus, no one knew whether Spain, China, Argentina, India, all of Africa, and other countries had an economy or not.

Lots of reasons why the US became a power house.

 

[Stuffshot]

What do you mean by real story? Like, did he really see the saints in a vision? Or was he paid off with tribute?

More likely the 2nd .. steppe nomadic tribes were extortionists. They firmly believed you can slaughter a sheep only once, but shear it many times.. they preferred shearing.

Did he really meet Pope Leo, do you think?

 

[VanPastorMan]

Wow. In your past posts, you made it sound like you think freedom of religion for you means no freedom for other religions.

Keep in mind Virginia, Connecticut and Rhode Island had state religions in ~1787 that were "Christian" and they all took a big hit with ratification of the First Amendment of the Constitution. At that time, Islam was not one of the state religions targeted by the First Amendment. (See above.)

I don't accept casual references to something that someone claims "sounds anti-American" without more detail why that is true.

That is a state issue correct? Each state has laws and they are ok to do it unless it infringes on the Constitutional rights of the state's citizens. Now are you saying that when you were in those states you had to participate in them? I don't believe this was the case. The states were identifying the majority of those who inhabit them. I don't believe that is against the Constitution. I am not sure where you got the idea that I thought other religions could not exist or that citizens didn't have the right to participate in them. I've never believed that. We all have freedom to believe what we want. Of course in my Christian Worldview Jesus is the Way, Truth, and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through Him. John 14:6 But that doesn't mean I can't have a neighbor who is a Muslim or Budhist. I would fight for their right to have the freedom to believe what they do even though I believe it is false.

 

[Stuffshot]

History should be a core curriculum class. Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.
I thought we all learned that...in history class.

No.

If you learned it, it was probably in philosophy class. If you could stay awake through any philosophy class (ZZZzzzzz) you might have learned that it was George Santayana that gets credit for that slogan.

George Santayana - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It wasn't from history; it was from "philosophy."

 

[Stuffshot]

That is a state issue correct? Each state has laws and they are ok to do it unless it infringes on the Constitutional rights of the state's citizens. Now are you saying that when you were in those states you had to participate in them? I don't believe this was the case. The states were identifying the majority of those who inhabit them. I don't believe that is against the Constitution. I am not sure where you got the idea that I thought other religions could not exist or that citizens didn't have the right to participate in them. I've never believed that. We all have freedom to believe what we want. Of course in my Christian Worldview Jesus is the Way, Truth, and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through Him. John 14:6 But that doesn't mean I can't have a neighbor who is a Muslim or Budhist. I would fight for their right to have the freedom to believe what they do even though I believe it is false.

You asked: "Now are you saying that when you were in those states you had to participate in them?"

Yes. Other religions and churches were virgually banned from those states.

 

[snarlcakes]

That’s fine. But why didn’t China, a pretty much continuous society with a wealth of resources develop these things? India? The Persians and Ottomans? As you said, they had the lead at one point. What happened? These are questions that should be asked, aren’t they?

For some reason, people think it’s culturally biased to recognize that the West came to dominate world affairs in an outsized way for reasons outside slavery and colonization.

I think you should ask these questions and provide all the different theories (maybe in the final chapter/portion of the year after learning what actually happened). But the syllabus I posted and the loaded questions they developed sure seem to point to “answers” the faculty think you should reach.

Amen brother. Also, if this video doesn’t chub you up, you’re super ghey.

 

[hoot1]

What made America great? Easy.

Unlimited natural resources after the Revolution,

Distance. The Atlantic is big -- Britain couldn't dominate all of it after the Revolution.

No fear of the strongest European power after the truce with Britain (Britain never surrendered or conceded after Yorktown as I recall).

Britain's preoccupation with its perennial enemy (France) after the Revolution instead of the U.S.

The U.S.'s large growth in population in the years after the Revolution.

Andrew Jackson defeating the British near New Orleans in 1814.

After that, the United States became a 19th Century juggernaut that never quit.

After WWII, the U.S. economy was about the only game in town because the following countries were then bankrupt: Britain, Germany (duh), France, Italy, Greece, Japan, plus, no one knew whether Spain, China, Argentina, India, all of Africa, and other countries had an economy or not.

Lots of reasons why the US became a power house.

Stuff, good stuff.

Just want to add the late 19th Industrial Revolution and how we managed to use our version of capitalism to combine the private enterprise sector and public sector including government to make the free market work.

 

[BradStevens]

Amen brother. Also, if this video doesn’t chub you up, you’re super ghey.

View embedded media

 

[mcmurtry66]

Amen brother. Also, if this video doesn’t chub you up, you’re super ghey.

View embedded media

The Bitcoin Therapist 🤣🤣

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Did he really meet Pope Leo, do you think?

Is it in question?

 

[T.M.P.]

Did he really meet Pope Leo, do you think?

According to every source I read he did.

 

[snarlcakes]

The Bitcoin Therapist 🤣🤣

Free of charge. It’s just Vanpastor and myself offering our services.

 

[T.M.P.]

Is it in question?

I never heard it was ... the question and argument has always been, what did Leo say or do to make Atilla go away. Option 1: Atilla had a vision. 2: Leo talked him out of it and in the goodness of Atilla's heart he folded 3: Atilla was only posturing and couldn't actually sack Rome without great loss to his own forces. 4: He got paid ..

I'm going with 4...

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I never heard it was ... the question and argument has always been, what did Leo say or do to make Atilla go away. Option 1: Atilla had a vision. 2: Leo talked him out of it and in the goodness of Atilla's heart he folded 3: Atilla was only posturing and couldn't actually sack Rome without great loss to his own forces. 4: He got paid ..

I'm going with 4...

Probably 3 and 4 both. He wasn't in a very good position to actually attack Rome, and it would have been customary at the time to agree to go home for the year in exchange for some gold and silver.

 

[hoot1]

The Bitcoin Therapist 🤣🤣

Waiting in line at the CVS pharmacy a fellow patron remarked to me how he never uses cash.

Thought about Snarlcakes (Mr. Bitcoin) and how credit cards dominate how we pay for things.

Presume credit card companies accept Bitcoins as payment along with CVS.

Help me here, so I can jump on the Bitcoin wagon and help people when standing in line at CVS.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Waiting in line at the CVS pharmacy a fellow patron remarked to me how he never uses cash.

Thought about Snarlcakes (Mr. Bitcoin) and how credit cards dominates how we pay for things.

Presume credit card companies accept Bitcoins as payment along with CVS.

Help me here, so I can jump on the Bitcoin wagon and help people when standing in line a CVS.

@snarlcakes is the oracle hoot. Re cash that’s the way now. Our mls stadium. No cash. Money preloaded with the tickets, which is all a scam and bs. Six flags. No cash. On and on.

 

[T.M.P.]

Probably 3 and 4 both. He wasn't in a very good position to actually attack Rome, and it would have been customary at the time to agree to go home for the year in exchange for some gold and silver.

I stated number 2 incorrectly. Or should have added another option. It should have been Leo threatened him with the power of St Peter and Attila's superstitious nature made him leave in fear. That and the first option is an example of history reimagined through the eyes of religion..

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I stated number 2 incorrectly. Or should have added another option. It should have been Leo threatened him with the power of St Peter and Attila's superstitious nature made him leave in fear. That and the first option is an example of history reimagined through the eyes of religion..

If Attila was superstitious he would have been very thoughtful of what happened to Alaric.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

6 But that doesn't mean I can't have a neighbor who is a Muslim or Budhist. I would fight for their right to have the freedom to believe what they do even though I believe it is false

I don't say this often to you but that sounds good.

 

[snarlcakes]

Waiting in line at the CVS pharmacy a fellow patron remarked to me how he never uses cash.

Thought about Snarlcakes (Mr. Bitcoin) and how credit cards dominate how we pay for things.

Presume credit card companies accept Bitcoins as payment along with CVS.

Help me here, so I can jump on the Bitcoin wagon and help people when standing in line at CVS.

Would you “sell” Anna Paulina ⬇️? F#ck no. You don’t sell Bitcoin for some shitty drugs.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Would you “sell” Anna Paulina ⬇️? F#ck no. You don’t sell Bitcoin for some shitty drugs.

View embedded media

🤣🤣🤣🤣 we’re circling the drain 🤣🤣🤣

 

[snarlcakes]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 we’re circling the drain 🤣🤣🤣

I probably got Hoot in trouble with Mrs. Hoot. She keeps yelling at him to put his phone down.

 

[Stuffshot]

Wow. Wish I could have seen that.

 

[Bloom.]

I’m all for pondering philosophical questions. But to do so, within a history context, you need some intellectual capital, something I know the kids don’t have enough of and I doubt the teachers do.

Like Goat said, it looks like a graduate seminar. But it’s for 14 year olds who don’t even know anything about the French Revolution, the Russian one, the history of communism, etc.

Hi Brad,

Good news for you Brad. Teachers who aren't well read in their current subject matter will just teach the book. Big thumbs up for you. Otherwise, yes, each of these teachers will have areas of expertise that they could easily expand upon, and I doubt you have the intellectual capital to know who if any are ill equipped to properly put history in context.

Quit being a little prig.

 

[Bloom.]

@El Drado and @Marvin the Martian have responded similarly to what I would have.

I'd only add to beware of "contempt prior to investigation." That syllabus was written by educators for educators. As Goat noted, there's enough in there for a 300 level college seminar (at least). High school freshmen will be getting the names, dates, and places thrown at them, with some "viewpoints" or "interpretations" thrown in for good measure. I doubt they'll be turning the little darlings into Junior Squadders.

Brad is coming off as someone worried his child will think differently than he does.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Hi Brad,

Good news for you Brad. Teachers who aren't well read in their current subject matter will just teach the book. Big thumbs up for you. Otherwise, yes, each of these teachers will have areas of expertise that they could easily expand upon, and I doubt you have the intellectual capital to know who if any are ill equipped to properly put history in context.

Quit being a little prig.

Brad is a law grad from the u of Texas and does class actions and is well read. You have 3,000 Uber rides. Stay in your lane

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Hi Brad,

Good news for you Brad. Teachers who aren't well read in their current subject matter will just teach the book. Big thumbs up for you. Otherwise, yes, each of these teachers will have areas of expertise that they could easily expand upon, and I doubt you have the intellectual capital to know who if any are ill equipped to properly put history in context.

Quit being a little prig.

Really not exhibiting yourself well in this thread.

 

[Bloom.]

Really not exhibiting yourself well in this thread.

Are you Brad's protector?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Are you Brad's protector?

No, I'm yours. Trying to gently nudge you away from being an idiot.

 

[mcmurtry66]

No, I'm yours. Trying to gently nudge you away from being an idiot.

Too late. Probably by decades

 

[Bloom.]

No, I'm yours. Trying to gently nudge you away from being an idiot.

You are neither.

Have the discussion. This notion of teaching kids to think critically think about history beyond just regurgitation of facts is silly, and it's not anything that any of us went through as students. That anyone is trying to pass the syllabus off as some grad level seminar is also silly.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

You are neither.

Have the discussion. This notion of teaching kids to think critically think about history beyond just regurgitation of facts is silly, and it's not anything that any of us went through as students. That anyone is trying to pass the syllabus off as some grad level seminar is also silly.

Maybe if you were here for the discussion as we had it, you'd understand it better.

Edit: I now see you were here for the discussion, and it didn't do you any good.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I need you and @Marvin the Martian @Mark Milton @hoosboot @TommyCracker @UncleMark @TheOriginalHappyGoat @larsIU to tell me this is a great course and that you really hope your kids can or could take one like this.

But I also already know from other parents that the oppressor v. oppressed dynamic is a fundamental axiom of the course.

And the 'oppressor ' is the White Male, with extra points awarded for adherents to Christianity.

Same fish, different wrap.

 

[Mark Milton]

Brad is a law grad from the u of Texas and does class actions and is well read. You have 3,000 Uber rides. Stay in your lane

100%

While being well read, cultured, intelligent with a keen philosophical mind and a genuine interest in his children's studies, he has failed to learn the mechanics of the motion offense to satisfy my requirements of a true polymath.

 

[Bloom.]

Maybe if you were here for the discussion as we had it, you'd understand it better.

I was, chief. Then I had fun on the weekend, as I tend to do. Brad doesn't reply to my posts, which is an improvement from him deleting his account, and when I return to the topic, he's questioning whether or not teachers have acumen to discuss history in its context.

Presumptuous at best.

However, this has been a lot of hand wringing about a syllabus. Maybe many of you had crap history teachers in high school. Ours wasn't just regurgitation of facts, and if some of you guys think high school kids learning history in context is advanced or "progressive," no wonder you think you're big thinkers.

This isn't the club you think it is.

 

[Bloom.]

Brad is a law grad from the u of Texas and does class actions and is well read. You have 3,000 Uber rides. Stay in your lane

Sweet...doesn't put him in the category of aptly questioning a high school teachers acumen on their subject matter.

 

[Bloom.]

And the 'oppressor ' is the White Male, with extra points awarded for adherents to Christianity.

Same fish, different wrap.

LOL

You have zero clue of what goes on in a high school class. You can't get out of your own as the self-marginalized while male.

 

[Bloom.]

Your experience in red Indiana isn’t representative. I showed you that with crt months ago then you slithered off.

No, you didn't. You made suppositions you couldn't back, and that's why you backed away from this post.

You're not even honest enough to stand by your false claims.


Quick, cherry pick a charter in NYC that mentioned CRT and use it to describe your view of public education in Indiana. LOL

 

[mcmurtry66]

I was, chief. Then I had fun on the weekend, as I tend to do. Brad doesn't reply to my posts, which is an improvement from him deleting his account, and when I return to the topic, he's questioning whether or not teachers have acumen to discuss history in its context.

Presumptuous at best.

However, this has been a lot of hand wringing about a syllabus. Maybe many of you had crap history teachers in high school. Ours wasn't just regurgitation of facts, and if some of you guys think high school kids learning history in context is advanced or "progressive," no wonder you think you're big thinkers.

This isn't the club you think it is.

We don’t think it’s anything. We just know you have a habit of poking those who are far brighter than you