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How do you deal with Islam?

Once war gets unleashed, the combatants don’t stop to debate the moral niceties that were abandoned in favor of war to begin with.

Japan killed 2403 at Pearl Harbor. And yes, it is a perfect analogy. Japan started some shit, and they reaped more than the full measure of what they sowed. Was the US was supposed to stop the Pacific World War II once we killed 2404, ‘cause that’s how war works? Gotta be fair and equivalent? Moral equivalence too? Was the US supposed to stop just because, in the grand scheme of it all, and once the academics thought through it all, Japan had needed natural resources and went out and took them through military means because that was the only means the world left to them, or that they thought they had available? Forget about the rape of Nanking, and all of that bad stuff they did because they were justifiably angry over their teeny-weeny little country not being able to get fuel and metals? and blah blah blah Justify blah blah Rationalize blah blah?

War doesn’t end when the guy who fired the first shot cries “uncle.”

There is a time to talk it all out, and give it all a deep think. And there is a time for war. This is the time for war, because Hamas made it a time for war. They have unleashed mankind at his worst, and they are getting what they “deserve” according to mankind rules. They chose to toss aside the principles of morality. The Palestinian People they are supposed to be taking care of? They are instead using them as pawns and human shields. Their only chance was/is to pack up and refugee south and get the hell out of the way, just Scarlett and Atlanta. Sherman doesn’t care. The only humane way to fight a war is to win it as quickly as possible and make it stop. It always sucks. War always produces refugees. That’s just the way it is. And until Jesus returns, that’s the way it’s going to stay.

Anybody that gave a single damn about the Palestinian people would’ve gotten rid of Hamas years ago. Didn’t hear a peep. The only violations of human rights we heard about were those allegedly committed by Israel, not Hamas. And Hamas’ slaughter of Jews was a dog whistle for the folks who use the Palestinians to hit the street and argue for moral equivalence. Spare me the hypocrisy.

Do they want to return all property seized in all wars to somebody’s great great grandkids? OK. Let’s start with your house. Which tribe are you going to give it back to? Cherokees? Apache? Are you looking to give Arizona, New Mexico and California back to Mexico? Who gets the Louisiana Purchase?

“The right of revolution is an inherent one. When people are oppressed by their government, it is a natural right they enjoy to relieve themselves of the oppression, if they are strong enough, either by withdrawal from it, or by overthrowing it, and substituting a government more acceptable. But any part of the people who resort to this remedy stake their lives, their property, and every claim for protection given by citizenship – on the issue. Victory, or the conditions imposed by the conqueror, must be the result. “

Now, we can parse that out and talk about the differences between the Palestinians, and whether they are citizens anywhere, or chose this Hamas bunch and do/don’t support their slaughters through the entirety of their existence. Or we can take the statement for its meaning. When you start some shit, you accept the consequences. In advance. You bet your life on this. And now that the Israelis are about to take that life, Hamas wants to call time out. That ain’t how that works. Give back your hostages, and give up your terrorists, so they can be put on trial and dealt with like human beings deal with terrorists. Then we can talk.

There are no answers that work throughout all time. Everybody is right until the clock ticks again, then everything changes. The only thing that has remained true is that so long as a Jew owns a single acre, Arab and Islamic peoples want them dead. There is no amount of land that the Israelis can give back, which will make this stop forever.

Too many words. Nothing I say here will even cause a mosquito bite-sized dent in anyone’s thoughts. Grant and Sherman and Lincoln were right. The only way to stop more war is to make people want to live more than fight. “Make em howl.” The Secesh have been quiet about wanting slavery and a Confederacy for 150 years. That desire was abolished by death and hunger and violence and want.

Sigh. I’m going back to bed. I didn’t solve anything.
I disagree with you. It wasn't too many words and it did make a dent. Really nicely written post and I agree with a lot of it. Personally, I prefer you writing like this.

I think this idea might be overstated a bit:

There are no answers that work throughout all time. Everybody is right until the clock ticks again, then everything changes.

But I love the way you expressed it (is that your wording or are you quoting someone?). And it's a lifelong internal debate I have on history, morality, etc.
 
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I disagree with you. It wasn't too many words and it did make a dent. Really nicely written post and I agree with a lot of it. Personally, I prefer you writing like this.

I think this idea might be overstated a bit:

There are no answers that work throughout all time. Everybody is right until the clock ticks again, then everything changes.

But I love the way your expressed it (is that your wording or are you quoting someone?). And it's a lifelong internal debate I have on history, morality, etc.

I think it’s my wording, but who knows? (Once you hear a song, can you ever write another one without at least plagiarizing a note?)

Maybe it’s just another way of saying “you can’t unring a bell” or “you can’t put toothpaste back in a tube.”

I guess the complete idea is that we can all justify our positions, and we do, and the clock ticks and everything changes. In September, the pro Palestinian cause was more morally justified than it can ever be again. Same with Israel’s arguments about self-defense. Once you fire on Ft. Sumter, or attack Pearl Harbor, or respond to them with an asskicking, morally-righteous, justifiable beat down, the academics and moral equivalency discussions become irrelevant. And by the time the smoke clears, or once the clock ticks, everything is different and your previous position is no longer the same rational, justifiable position it used to be.
 
Israel isn't using any history to do anything. You and jimbo are the ones that keep trying to bring history into this recent conflict - as a means to justify the actions of Palestinian terrorists. That's what it says about you.

Also, your points about Israeli progress seem favorable. Israelis (20% of which are Arabs) have decided to modernize and align with Western progress while the other shithole countries and regions in the MIddle East, including Gaza and the West Bank, continue to live in ancient times - treating women like shit, rejecting modern medicine, obsessing over religion...

You seem to forget the fact that Palestinians are rejected by their own "brothers" in Jordan, Egypt, Syria and beyond. Nobody wants them - why do you think that is?
Nobody is justifying Hamas. There are nuances that you may not understand or want to. Israel the government and Jews are different entities, as are Hamas and Palestinians.

The UN Secretary General condemned Hamas and said that this brutality didn't happen in a vacuum. There is a history of violence here, and you have to recognize the history to fully understand the conflict. This exercise is not a justification of anything. Once again, maybe this is something you don't understand or don't want to.

Surrounding counties have already taken in a bunch of Palestinians and provided land for a 2 state solution. They have done enough.
 
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It is okay when Israel does this: if you say otherwise, you're an anti-semite.
There is no moral equivalency between the Jews and Palestinians in the 21st century. The Palestinians are living in a world of long long ago, and millions of people in the US and around the world encourage them.

If the Palestinians disarm, there will be peace. If the Jews disarm, there will be gennoacide. . This is a pretty obvious take away from the public pronouncements on both sides. We need to believe it.
 
Surrounding counties have already taken in a bunch of Palestinians and provided land for a 2 state solution. They have done enough.
What an awful BS excuse. Israel is literally sitting there saying "Hey Egypt, take this beautiful piece of coastline along the Mediterranean, you can have it, please take it." Egypt wont take it for one reason only, and it's the same reason they wont even offer refugee camps in the Sinai.

They don't want a Palestinian population that is riddled with radicals and terrorists. Same with Jordan and the West bank.
 
What an awful BS excuse. Israel is literally sitting there saying "Hey Egypt, take this beautiful piece of coastline along the Mediterranean, you can have it, please take it." Egypt wont take it for one reason only, and it's the same reason they wont even offer refugee camps in the Sinai.

They don't want a Palestinian population that is riddled with radicals and terrorists. Same with Jordan and the West bank.
You probably speak too highly of Egypt and Jordan. Wasn't part of Trump's big plan a wall and anti-immigration: maybe Jordan and Egypt have the same position? Could you imagine if the US opened it's borders to Mexico and let in anybody who wanted in? I thought borders were supposed to mean something?

Or maybe they think Israel is trying to cleanse the area of Palestinians and feel the 2 state solution is the solution?
 
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Once war gets unleashed, the combatants don’t stop to debate the moral niceties that were abandoned in favor of war to begin with.

Japan killed 2403 at Pearl Harbor. And yes, it is a perfect analogy. Japan started some shit, and they reaped more than the full measure of what they sowed. Was the US was supposed to stop the Pacific World War II once we killed 2404, ‘cause that’s how war works? Gotta be fair and equivalent? Moral equivalence too? Was the US supposed to stop just because, in the grand scheme of it all, and once the academics thought through it all, Japan had needed natural resources and went out and took them through military means because that was the only means the world left to them, or that they thought they had available? Forget about the rape of Nanking, and all of that bad stuff they did because they were justifiably angry over their teeny-weeny little country not being able to get fuel and metals? and blah blah blah Justify blah blah Rationalize blah blah?

War doesn’t end when the guy who fired the first shot cries “uncle.”

There is a time to talk it all out, and give it all a deep think. And there is a time for war. This is the time for war, because Hamas made it a time for war. They have unleashed mankind at his worst, and they are getting what they “deserve” according to mankind rules. They chose to toss aside the principles of morality. The Palestinian People they are supposed to be taking care of? They are instead using them as pawns and human shields. Their only chance was/is to pack up and refugee south and get the hell out of the way, just Scarlett and Atlanta. Sherman doesn’t care. The only humane way to fight a war is to win it as quickly as possible and make it stop. It always sucks. War always produces refugees. That’s just the way it is. And until Jesus returns, that’s the way it’s going to stay.

Anybody that gave a single damn about the Palestinian people would’ve gotten rid of Hamas years ago. Didn’t hear a peep. The only violations of human rights we heard about were those allegedly committed by Israel, not Hamas. And Hamas’ slaughter of Jews was a dog whistle for the folks who use the Palestinians to hit the street and argue for moral equivalence. Spare me the hypocrisy.

Do they want to return all property seized in all wars to somebody’s great great grandkids? OK. Let’s start with your house. Which tribe are you going to give it back to? Cherokees? Apache? Are you looking to give Arizona, New Mexico and California back to Mexico? Who gets the Louisiana Purchase?

“The right of revolution is an inherent one. When people are oppressed by their government, it is a natural right they enjoy to relieve themselves of the oppression, if they are strong enough, either by withdrawal from it, or by overthrowing it, and substituting a government more acceptable. But any part of the people who resort to this remedy stake their lives, their property, and every claim for protection given by citizenship – on the issue. Victory, or the conditions imposed by the conqueror, must be the result. “

Now, we can parse that out and talk about the differences between the Palestinians, and whether they are citizens anywhere, or chose this Hamas bunch and do/don’t support their slaughters through the entirety of their existence. Or we can take the statement for its meaning. When you start some shit, you accept the consequences. In advance. You bet your life on this. And now that the Israelis are about to take that life, Hamas wants to call time out. That ain’t how that works. Give back your hostages, and give up your terrorists, so they can be put on trial and dealt with like human beings deal with terrorists. Then we can talk.

There are no answers that work throughout all time. Everybody is right until the clock ticks again, then everything changes. The only thing that has remained true is that so long as a Jew owns a single acre, Arab and Islamic peoples want them dead. There is no amount of land that the Israelis can give back, which will make this stop forever.

Too many words. Nothing I say here will even cause a mosquito bite-sized dent in anyone’s thoughts. Grant and Sherman and Lincoln were right. The only way to stop more war is to make people want to live more than fight. “Make em howl.” The Secesh have been quiet about wanting slavery and a Confederacy for 150 years. That desire was abolished by death and hunger and violence and want.

Sigh. I’m going back to bed. I didn’t solve anything.
I disagree with you. It wasn't too many words and it did make a dent. Really nicely written post and I agree with a lot of it. Personally, I prefer you writing like this.

I think this idea might be overstated a bit:

There are no answers that work throughout all time. Everybody is right until the clock ticks again, then everything changes.

But I love the way you expressed it (is that your wording or are you quoting someone?). And it's a lifelong internal debate I have on history, morality, etc.
I gotta think about this:

There are no answers that work throughout all time. Everybody is right until the clock ticks again, then everything changes.

I
d like to think that there are important constants to guide human behavior that survive a ticking clock. Those constants indeed survive the passage of time (I know, I know) and guide us to a better society. That said, I readily agree that for many, the constants might be the product of persistent feelings of oppression and inadequacy. Israel represents a highly successful, high achieving, progressive,, accomplished, and self-confident society. Those who are none of those things, either collectively or individually, will rebel, march, demonstrate, and even kill in opposition. Adherence to constant progressive values put Israel where it is in the 21st century.
 
Disagree. Millions directly and conspicuously celebrated the October 7 atrocities and millions more indirectly support it. There is no nuance to October 7.
Then don't lump me or anybody else in that bucket who doesn't feel that way. I have repeatedly said that the leadership on both sides sucks and violence isn't the answer.
 
You probably speak too highly of Egypt and Jordan. Wasn't part of Trump's big plan a wall and anti-immigration: maybe Jordan and Egypt have the same position? Could you imagine if the US opened it's borders to Mexico and let in anybody who wanted in? I thought borders were supposed to mean something?

Or maybe they think Israel is trying to cleanse the area of Palestinians and feel the 2 state solution is the solution?
Wait. So Egypt and Jordan don't want their land back? They only lost it during the 6 day war in 1967. You're going to defend Palestinians right to statehood based on a 1940's partition plan, but you won't defend Jordan and Egypt's right to reclaim land that they lost in the 60's?

There's no coherence in that argument but you aren't very coherent on this issue in general. And again, your analogies are truly, truly terrible.

This would be more like if the U.S. decide to evacuate every single Texan and then offered the land back to Mexico. It has nothing to do with that god awful border analogy that you pulled out of you uniformed rear end.
 
Wait. So Egypt and Jordan don't want their land back? They only lost it during the 6 day war in 1967. You're going to defend Palestinians right to statehood based on a 1940's partition plan, but you won't defend Jordan and Egypt's right to reclaim land that they lost in the 60's?

There's no coherence in that argument but you aren't very coherent on this issue in general. And again, your analogies are truly, truly terrible.

This would be more like if the U.S. decide to evacuate every single Texan and then offered the land back to Mexico. It has nothing to do with that god awful border analogy that you pulled out of you uniformed rear end.
Do you even know what the 2 state solution is and where the land came from? Do you understand that this 2 state solution is the globally backed solution to this conflict?
 
Do you even know what the 2 state solution is and where the land came from? Do you understand that this 2 state solution is the globally backed solution to this conflict?
Yes and yes. lol. Let's not allow you to turn the tables here. Why don't Egypt and Jordan want their land back in your opinion?
 
Yes and yes. lol. Let's not allow you to turn the tables here. Why don't Egypt and Jordan want their land back in your opinion?
You mean the Sinai Peninsula? It is my understanding that Egypt and Jordan gave their blessing for the Gaza Strip and West Bank to be used for two State solution and for peace agreements with Israel. I understand Israel's land grab from the 1967 war: they returned Sinai as a peace agreement.
 
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Oh look... the peaceful people are at it again



Pure childishness in that first video.

The Left is generally made up of immature, childish adults who have failed in life.
 
I gotta think about this:

There are no answers that work throughout all time. Everybody is right until the clock ticks again, then everything changes.

I
d like to think that there are important constants to guide human behavior that survive a ticking clock. Those constants indeed survive the passage of time (I know, I know) and guide us to a better society. That said, I readily agree that for many, the constants might be the product of persistent feelings of oppression and inadequacy. Israel represents a highly successful, high achieving, progressive,, accomplished, and self-confident society. Those who are none of those things, either collectively or individually, will rebel, march, demonstrate, and even kill in opposition. Adherence to constant progressive values put Israel where it is in the 21st century.
If something as fundamental as what is a man & woman can’t survive the ticking clock, nothing can…
 
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If something as fundamental as what is a man & woman can’t survive the ticking clock, nothing can…
Ha.

We seem to be moving backward on a number of fronts. I agree with those who call that luxury thinking. When one no longer has to seriously think about life’s necessities, they have the luxury of thinking stupid shit is important.
 
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Ha.

We seem to be moving backward on a number of fronts. I agree with those who call that luxury thinking. When one no longer has to seriously think about life’s necessities, they have the luxury of thinking stupid shit is important.



Frankly, I think the society, religion, culture, political movement, or whatever you want to call this that spawned these people deserves to be battered into submission. There are some movements that are so horrible that you do have to basically rip them out root and stem until you get to the point where they say enough and throw what remains of their civilization at your feet in penitence begging for your mercy.

Our kids do school plays about Santa Claus and theirs do plays about killing jews and being martyrs. Blow them to bits and see if what is left can be brought to sanity like the Japanese and Germans. The kind of violence exercised on 10/7 indicates a war of extermination. There is no negotiating with that. You kill it and step on its neck.
 
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Frankly, I think the society, religion, culture, political movement, or whatever you want to call this deserves to be battered into submission. There are some movements that are so horrible that you do have to basically rip them out root and stem until you get to the point where they say enough and throw what remains of their civilization at your feet in penitence begging for your mercy.

Our kids do school plays about Santa Claus and theirs do plays about killing jews and being martyrs. Blow them to bits and see if what is left can be brought to sanity like the Japanese and Germans. The kind of violence exercised on 10/7 indicates a war of extermination. There is no negotiating with that. You kill it and step on its neck.
A lot of people at our fine universities call this a “military action” or “exercising their right to resist”.
 
There are nuances that you may not understand or want to. Israel the government and Jews are different entities

Then why were people (non-Hamas) celebrating the attack on Jews instead of an attack on the Israeli government? If they are separate, why are there actions being taken all over the place against Jews? Clearly the world doesn't distinguish them when Turkish mobs attack McDonald's (despite it being a franchise owned by Qataris lol), calls for boycotts of Israeli private companies, signs labeling Jewish businesses and homes in Paris, protests against a coffee shop owned by a Jew in New York?

Stop pretending like nuance matters, only when it is convenient for you.
 
A lot of people at our fine universities call this a “military action” or “exercising their right to resist”.

Exercise that right, just don't complain when your expression of your right to "resist" (i.e. rape, murder, take hostages) leads the person you are exercising that "right" against to be the windshield to your bug.

The rape of Nanking is seen as an awful thing. These guys just did that same awful type of stuff in Southern Israel. Their whole society is geared towards pumping out antisocial murderous psychopaths just like them. It needs squashed. You can't peacefully live next door to that.
 
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Which war did Ukraine start again? (I think there are some realities that will come into play there that I have spoken of for months now, but Russia started that war.)
14,000 killed in eastern Ukraine in conflict arising from Ukrainian artillery and rockets fired indiscriminately by NATO(US) funded and trained military since 2014, aimed predominantly at civilians, Russian ethnic and speaking civilians.

Yet ,"Russia started it"!

Comical....
Boris and Natasha worthy..
 


Frankly, I think the society, religion, culture, political movement, or whatever you want to call this that spawned these people deserves to be battered into submission. There are some movements that are so horrible that you do have to basically rip them out root and stem until you get to the point where they say enough and throw what remains of their civilization at your feet in penitence begging for your mercy.

Our kids do school plays about Santa Claus and theirs do plays about killing jews and being martyrs. Blow them to bits and see if what is left can be brought to sanity like the Japanese and Germans. The kind of violence exercised on 10/7 indicates a war of extermination. There is no negotiating with that. You kill it and step on its neck.
Unspeakable. I thought I knew what evil is with the Nazis. These mother****ers are way beyond that.

Bulldoze everything in Gaza and kick out any inhabitants. Then hunt down everyone who had any kind of hand or sympathy with this evil.

I'm not even sure it's evil, because you have to be human to be evil. This is subhuman activity.
 
14,000 killed in eastern Ukraine in conflict arising from Ukrainian artillery and rockets fired indiscriminately by NATO(US) funded and trained military since 2014, aimed predominantly at civilians, Russian ethnic and speaking civilians.

Yet ,"Russia started it"!

Comical....
Boris and Natasha worthy..
Yes, Russia started it in 2014. Did you miss that?
 
14,000 killed in eastern Ukraine in conflict arising from Ukrainian artillery and rockets fired indiscriminately by NATO(US) funded and trained military since 2014, aimed predominantly at civilians, Russian ethnic and speaking civilians.

Yet ,"Russia started it"!

Comical....
Boris and Natasha worthy..

Come on Mas. What happened in 2014 in Crimea and why would the Ukrainians be firing rockets into Eastern Ukraine (their own territory)? For shits and giggles? No, the Russians seized Crimea and then flooded Eastern Ukraine with their forces, not in uniform, to seize territory. It was the same shit they did in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Again, countries do not generally take kindly to being invaded.

Unlike Georgia, the Ukrainians were in a better position to defend themselves and give Russia a bloody nose. Don't know why you are such a Russian dick rider.
 
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Come on Mas. What happened in 2014 in Crimea and why would the Ukrainians be firing rockets into Eastern Ukraine (their own territory)? For shits and giggles? No, the Russians seized Crimea and then flooded Eastern Ukraine with their forces, not in uniform, to seize territory. It was the same shit they did in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Again, countries do not generally take kindly to being invaded.

Unlike Georgia, the Ukrainians were in a better position to defend themselves and give Russia a bloody nose. Don't know why you are such a Russian dick rider.
Especially after his friends were killed by Russian-sponsored Communists in Vietnam.
 
Then why were people (non-Hamas) celebrating the attack on Jews instead of an attack on the Israeli government? If they are separate, why are there actions being taken all over the place against Jews? Clearly the world doesn't distinguish them when Turkish mobs attack McDonald's (despite it being a franchise owned by Qataris lol), calls for boycotts of Israeli private companies, signs labeling Jewish businesses and homes in Paris, protests against a coffee shop owned by a Jew in New York?

Stop pretending like nuance matters, only when it is convenient for you.
Because they hate Jews? Not everybody that is critical of the Israeli government hates Jews. I never said that there aren't people that dislike Jews: I wouldn't be one of them. Being prejudiced is illogical and mentally weak, kind of like exercising the association logical fallacy or not being able to evolve beyond mindless tribalism like you.

Here is an example. Some people who dislike Obama as president are racists. Bob dislikes Obama as president. Therefore, Bob is a racist. Nuance.
 
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