How do you deal with Islam?

[BradStevens]

Never again? This conflict has been going on forever, and violence has solved nothing: this is just the most recent cycle of violence. Palestinians are not Japan in WW2, and the US and Israel are separate entities. Israel can perform genocide on its own without US taxpayer support: that is what Nazis do.

You keep comparing Israel to the Nazis. According to the US Dept. of State, your posting constitutes antisemitism in at least two ways:

Defining Antisemitism - United States Department of State

The Department of State has used a working definition, along with examples, of antisemitism since 2010. On May 26, 2016, the 31 member states of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA), of which the United States is a member, adopted a non-legally binding “working definition” of...

www.state.gov

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

You keep comparing Israel to the Nazis. According to the US Dept. of State, your posting constitutes antisemitism in at least two ways:

Defining Antisemitism - United States Department of State

The Department of State has used a working definition, along with examples, of antisemitism since 2010. On May 26, 2016, the 31 member states of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA), of which the United States is a member, adopted a non-legally binding “working definition” of...

www.state.gov

Agree to disagree. Israel already has a lot in common with the Nazis, and they will officially be Nazis if they commit genocide: I don't think I need to explain the irony. Maybe they start WWIII in the process. If we are getting technical, then Israel has violated countless UN and global rules for war crimes, occupation of territories, human rights abuses, apartheid, etc. Israel is far from innocent, and they know how to stack dead civilian bodies as well as anybody. While nobody deserves what happened by Hamas, Israel has created much of their situation and trouble.

Bottom line: the American way of doing business is different from the Israeli way of doing business. If the US wants to make an official statement showing the distinctions, they can do that as well.

 

[GigGoo]

Agree to disagree. Israel already has a lot in common with the Nazis, and they will officially be Nazis if they commit genocide: I don't think I need to explain the irony. Maybe they start WWIII in the process. If we are getting technical, then Israel has violated countless UN and global rules for war crimes, occupation of territories, human rights abuses, apartheid, etc. Israel is far from innocent, and they know how to stack dead civilian bodies as well as anybody. While nobody deserves what happened by Hamas, Israel has created much of their situation and trouble.

Bottom line: the American way of doing business is different from the Israeli way of doing business. If the US wants to make an official statement showing the distinctions, they can do that as well.

Why do you keep saying genocide? It’s clear you have no knowledge of what that word means.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Why do you keep saying genocide? It’s clear you have no knowledge of what that word means.

Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

I understand what it means.

 

[GigGoo]

Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

I understand what it means.

Okay. So why do reference genocide when you know that Israel is using their own military to provide humanitarian corridors to south Gaza under fire from Hamas?

You're being deliberately dishonest, If you can't discuss this topic honestly. You need to leave. You're right that the U.S. way of doing business is quite different. 300K civilian Iraqi's died as a result of the U.S. invasion. We're far more genocidal by your standards.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Okay. So why do reference genocide when you know that Israel is using their own military to provide humanitarian corridors to south Gaza under fire from Hamas?

You're being deliberately dishonest, If you can't discuss this topic honestly. You need to leave. You're right that the U.S. way of doing business is quite different. 300K civilian Iraqi's died as a result of the U.S. invasion. We're far more genocidal by your standards.

Agree to disagree. Both sides kill civilians. I don't have to go anywhere.

Where did I say the Iraq War was a good idea? While the US treated the Native Americans poorly, they did eventually compensate them with land, money, equal citizenship, etc. Israel has a different idea about free speech, equal protection, compensation for taking land, etc. Israel may not have the problems it has if it behaved better. The US certainly shouldn't encourage their poor behavior with tax money: spend that money on Americans.

 

[GigGoo]

Agree to disagree. Both sides kill civilians. I don't have to go anywhere.

Where did I say the Iraq War was a good idea? While the US treated the Native Americans poorly, they did eventually compensate them with land, money, equal citizenship, etc. Israel has a different idea about free speech, equal protection, compensation for taking land, etc. Israel may not have the problems it has if it behaved better.

So Israel should put all the Palestinians on reservations and ply them with Casino money? The Palestinians have no interest in living in the same state as Jews. You know this. They already have their own territory, you know this. That territory could be statehood if they show they can go 12 months without firing off rockets into Tel Aviv.

If terrorist attacks were regularly being launched from Indian reservations in 2023, our posture would be much different. When the Native Americans were launching attacks on Western Settlers and civilians our posture WAS much different. Eventually forces like the U.S. Army and Texas Rangers ground them into submission and then compensated them decades later when they proved they could be docile.

So that's what Israel should do. Grind the Palestinians into submission. Then decades later we can compensate them with statehood.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

How about the 2 state solution that everybody in the world minus the extremes on both sides want?

No, the Palestinians live in occupied territories (open air prisons), lack freedom of movement, are second class citizens, and Israel treats them with impunity. This is all after their land was taken from them. I would be angry as well. Conditions like this is where groups like Hamas are born.

The war and violence have been going on forever. Nothing will be solved this go around, either. I'm more than willing to criticize both sides for not trying harder at peace, but peace has to be the end game.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Agree to disagree. Israel already has a lot in common with the Nazis, and they will officially be Nazis if they commit genocide: I don't think I need to explain the irony. Maybe they start WWIII in the process. If we are getting technical, then Israel has violated countless UN and global rules for war crimes, occupation of territories, human rights abuses, apartheid, etc. Israel is far from innocent, and they know how to stack dead civilian bodies as well as anybody. While nobody deserves what happened by Hamas, Israel has created much of their situation and trouble.

Bottom line: the American way of doing business is different from the Israeli way of doing business. If the US wants to make an official statement showing the distinctions, they can do that as well.

And David Duke disagrees that he’s a racist.

You’re not refuting anything Brad is saying.

Frankly, it’s making you look awful.

 

[GigGoo]

How about the 2 state solution that everybody in the world minus the extremes on both sides want?

No, the Palestinians live in occupied territories (open air prisons), lack freedom of movement, are second class citizens, and Israel treats them with impunity. This is all after their land was taken from them. I would be angry as well. This is where groups like Hamas are born.

The war and violence have been going on forever. Nothing will be solved this go around, either. I'm more than willing to criticize both sides for not trying harder at peace, but peace has to be the end game.

Much better chance of that elusive 2 state once an authority other than Hamas controls Gaza. But Hamas is much more of a reflection of the average Gazan than people are willing to admit. Most Palestinians don’t believe in a Jewish state. So how can such negotiations take place in your dream world? There is no negotiation partner for Israel.

BiBi will be removed after the dust settles from this. And a so called more moderate PM will take his place. And we still won’t be any closer because one party has no interest in negotiating or Israel’s right to exist.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Much better chance of that elusive 2 state once an authority other than Hamas controls Gaza. But Hamas is much more of a reflection of the average Gazan than people are willing to admit. Most Palestinians don’t believe in a Jewish state. So how can such negotiations take place in your dream world? There is no negotiation partner for Israel.

BiBi will be removed after the dust settles from this. And a so called more moderate PM will take his place. And we still won’t be any closer because one party has no interest in negotiating or Israel’s right to exist.

I believe a poll after the 1993 Oslo Accords stated 80% of Palestinians wanted a 2 state solution. Hamas sucks and isn't close to the answer, but neither is Israeli hard core right wingers. I don't think the extremes speak for everybody: far from it.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

And David Duke disagrees that he’s a racist.

You’re not refuting anything Brad is saying.

Frankly, it’s making you look awful.

Apartheid is clearly a reality in Israel: it speaks for itself and is not debatable. It is ironic how the oppressed can become the oppressor, and Israel should be disgusted that it shares similarities with Nazis.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Apartheid is clearly a reality in Israel: it speaks for itself and is not debatable. It is ironic how the oppressed can become the oppressor, and Israel should be disgusted that it shares similarities with Nazis.

Israel is a bad actor in a region of nothing but bad actors, but comparing them to Nazis is beyond ridiculous. Comparing anyone to Nazis who doesn't put people in ovens is patently stupid, but doing it to a nation of Jewish people is also particularly offensive.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Israel is a bad actor in a region of nothing but bad actors, but comparing them to Nazis is beyond ridiculous. Comparing anyone to Nazis who doesn't put people in ovens is patently stupid, but doing it to a nation of Jewish people is also particularly offensive.

What would a better name be for a group that removes a people from their homes and land, doesn't compensate these people for the property they took, sets up a government/society based on a race/religion, forces these people into a walled area/ghetto that they aren't free to leave, encroaches and continues to take areas set aside for these people, bombs the area/ghettos these people have been forced into, does not grant these people equal rights, imprisons these people, beats these people, kills these people, and generally treats these people with impunity? Assholes? 50%-70% Nazis?

 

[GigGoo]

I believe a poll after the 1993 Oslo Accords stated 80% of Palestinians wanted a 2 state solution. Hamas sucks and isn't close to the answer, but neither is Israeli hard core right wingers. I don't think the extremes speak for everybody: far from it.

You think wrong.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

What would a better name be for a group that removes a people from their homes and land, doesn't compensate these people for the property they took, sets up a government/society based on a race/religion, forces these people into a walled area/ghetto that they aren't free to leave, encroaches and continues to take areas set aside for these people, bombs the area/ghettos these people have been forced into, does not grant these people equal rights, imprisons these people, beats these people, kills these people, and generally treats these people with impunity? Assholes? 50%-70% Nazis?

Anything that doesn't involve the word Nazi would be better.

 

[DANC]

You keep comparing Israel to the Nazis. According to the US Dept. of State, your posting constitutes antisemitism in at least two ways:

Defining Antisemitism - United States Department of State

The Department of State has used a working definition, along with examples, of antisemitism since 2010. On May 26, 2016, the 31 member states of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA), of which the United States is a member, adopted a non-legally binding “working definition” of...

www.state.gov

He's not fooling anyone. He is an antisemite.

 

[DANC]

Agree to disagree. Israel already has a lot in common with the Nazis, and they will officially be Nazis if they commit genocide: I don't think I need to explain the irony. Maybe they start WWIII in the process. If we are getting technical, then Israel has violated countless UN and global rules for war crimes, occupation of territories, human rights abuses, apartheid, etc. Israel is far from innocent, and they know how to stack dead civilian bodies as well as anybody. While nobody deserves what happened by Hamas, Israel has created much of their situation and trouble.

Bottom line: the American way of doing business is different from the Israeli way of doing business. If the US wants to make an official statement showing the distinctions, they can do that as well.

You need to look up the term genocide, because you're ignorant of its meaning.

 

[DANC]

Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

I understand what it means.

So then you are purposely using the term incorrectly.

 

[DANC]

Apartheid is clearly a reality in Israel: it speaks for itself and is not debatable. It is ironic how the oppressed can become the oppressor, and Israel should be disgusted that it shares similarities with Nazis.

You realize 1/4 of Israelis are Arabs, right. Some 'apartheid'. lol

 

[DANC]

Israel is a bad actor in a region of nothing but bad actors, but comparing them to Nazis is beyond ridiculous. Comparing anyone to Nazis who doesn't put people in ovens is patently stupid, but doing it to a nation of Jewish people is also particularly offensive.

By your definition, Hamas are Nazis, after they put a living baby in an oven to burn while its mother watched.

 

[DANC]

What would a better name be for a group that removes a people from their homes and land, doesn't compensate these people for the property they took, sets up a government/society based on a race/religion, forces these people into a walled area/ghetto that they aren't free to leave, encroaches and continues to take areas set aside for these people, bombs the area/ghettos these people have been forced into, does not grant these people equal rights, imprisons these people, beats these people, kills these people, and generally treats these people with impunity? Assholes? 50%-70% Nazis?

A better name is 'losers of a war they started'.

Pretty easy to understand, really.

 

[GigGoo]

What would a better name be for a group that removes a people from their homes and land, doesn't compensate these people for the property they took, sets up a government/society based on a race/religion, forces these people into a walled area/ghetto that they aren't free to leave, encroaches and continues to take areas set aside for these people, bombs the area/ghettos these people have been forced into, does not grant these people equal rights, imprisons these people, beats these people, kills these people, and generally treats these people with impunity? Assholes? 50%-70% Nazis?

Did the Nazi party allows Jews to sit on the Supreme Court of Germany? Was 20% of Germany's population in the years preceding and during WW2 comprised of Jews with full voting rights? What about the Reichstag? Was there a political party in the Bundestag comprised entirely of Jews? Surely there were many Jews serving in the SS and other units of the German military. That's a given.

Everyone of you historical analogies is dumber than the last.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

By your definition, Hamas are Nazis, after they put a living baby in an oven to burn while its mother watched.

Uh, no. That's still stupid. A lot less stupid than comparing Israel to Nazis, but still stupid.

 

[DANC]

Uh, no. That's still stupid. A lot less stupid than comparing Israel to Nazis, but still stupid.

Just going by your definition.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Anything that doesn't involve the word Nazi would be better.

What would a better analogy be? Or, is Israel a special kind of monster? Is it ok to say that some of Israel's behavior (for example, rounding up a minority into an open air prison/ghetto after taking their property) perhaps isn't the best look in light of what Jews have experienced?

 

[Indianaftw]

That moment Jordan looks at Nadler and they both agree after the 4th interruption...Shocker

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Israel is a bad actor in a region of nothing but bad actors, but comparing them to Nazis is beyond ridiculous. Comparing anyone to Nazis who doesn't put people in ovens is patently stupid, but doing it to a nation of Jewish people is also particularly offensive.

“All while you are coming to grips finally with the Nazi wing of your own party.”

Who said THIS? Any guesses?

 

[DANC]

That moment Jordan looks at Nadler and they both agree after the 4th interruption...Shocker

View embedded media

How is that not interference with the legislature? You know, like attacking Democracy itself?

 

[Indianaftw]

How is that not interference with the legislature? You know, like attacking Democracy itself?

You know in the 60's people protested and even though many were stoned they seemed to know what they were protesting for. And these aren't sit ins either or peaceful protests. These people protesting would not wanna be dropped off in a group of Hamas. Especially these young women. Jeeezuz they have no clue.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Just going by your definition.

I didn't offer a definition.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

“All while you are coming to grips finally with the Nazi wing of your own party.”

Who said THIS? Any guesses?

Touche. But it made sense in context. Crazy and I have been involved in a long on-and-off discussion on this topic. But you're right, I should have said "antisemitic wing."

 

[DANC]

I didn't offer a definition.

You gave criteria.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Touche. But it made sense in context. Crazy and I have been involved in a long on-and-off discussion on this topic. But you're right, I should have said "antisemitic wing."

 

[dbmhoosier]

Screw Islam. Our government is focused on the real terrorists.

 

[manichi]

Uh, no. That's still stupid. A lot less stupid than comparing Israel to Nazis, but still stupid.

plenty of folks/ memes compared the Hamas attack to the holocaust and used it to justify what’s happening now. That seems just as stupid.

Is the current Israeli regime like the nazis in Germany circa 1939? Not really, but they are suppressing an ethnic minority, keeping them in ghettos under surveillance and threats of violence, arresting them w/o trial, denying them free passage and any number of rights. But hey, the US has also recently/ historically dabbled in the dark arts…

Is Hamas comprised of human scum? Oh hell ya, but disproportionate retaliation on top of extreme ethnic suppression is going to create some sickening comparisons

 

[GigGoo]

plenty of folks/ memes compared the Hamas attack to the holocaust and used it to justify what’s happening now. That seems just as stupid.

Is the current Israeli regime like the nazis in Germany circa 1939? Not really, but they are suppressing an ethnic minority, keeping them in ghettos under surveillance and threats of violence, arresting them w/o trial, denying them free passage and any number of rights. But hey, the US has also recently/ historically dabbled in the dark arts…

Is Hamas comprised of human scum? Oh hell ya, but disproportionate retaliation on top of extreme ethnic suppression is going to create some sickening comparisons

I’m what sense are the Palestinians an ethnic minority? They’re hardly even a minority in their mythological country of Palestine were that country to encompass everyone currently living in Gaza, Israel and Judea and Samaria. If you desire a proportionate response from Israel the IDF has a whole lot of raping and kidnapping to catch up on. They better get to it.

 

[manichi]

I’m what sense are the Palestinians an ethnic minority? They’re hardly even a minority in their mythological country of Palestine were that country to encompass everyone currently living in Gaza, Israel and Judea and Samaria. If you desire a proportionate response from Israel the IDF has a whole lot of raping and kidnapping to catch up on. They better get to it.

I can’t teach you numbers. Someone else dropped the ball on that one.

Yes. Hamas butchered, raped, kidnapped and now the IDF incinerates at a higher rate while it denies basic first aid to non-combatants

Here we go round the prickly pear

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I’m what sense are the Palestinians an ethnic minority? They’re hardly even a minority in their mythological country of Palestine were that country to encompass everyone currently living in Gaza, Israel and Judea and Samaria. If you desire a proportionate response from Israel the IDF has a whole lot of raping and kidnapping to catch up on. They better get to it.

Palestinian was shown with firm boundaries published in National Geographic Magazine pre-Israel.
Most of the 'West Bank' labeled as ' Canaan'.
Why do you separate Judea and Galilee from Israel?

 

[GigGoo]

I can’t teach you numbers. Someone else dropped the ball on that one.

Yes. Hamas butchered, raped, kidnapped and now the IDF incinerates at a higher rate while it denies basic first aid to non-combatants

Here we go round the prickly pear

Let’s hope they’re incinerating at a higher rate. How are you supposed to win a war if you lose more people than the enemy you’re fighting?