Glimpse at something different last night?

[IUNorth]

I know it was North Alabama. And I know we've seen games, times within games, shorter moments, etc... where we've spread things out and played with much more spacing, and from a more outside/in mindset. So its obviously very possible we'll go back to seeing a lot of dribble and post ISO stuff, double post stuff, etc... against Kennessaw and/or Nebraska.

But last night was fun. Not just because we made some threes. We actually ran stuff that generated good outside looks. Which then opened things up for two man action for a guard and Kelel or Malik to actually have room to do things inside.

The defense was mediocre, I thought. And the rebounding was sub par. We have to improve in those areas. Even if we do improve offensively, and get some more perimeter action going...we're still not good enough to consistently score that way against good teams. We need to get stops and rebounds, and get stuff in transition. We didn't do enough of that last night, and its way we didn't win by 40.

Hopefully the offensive strategy sticks. And we can get a little better defensively. And we can get A LOT better rebounding the ball. We could be a dangerous tournament team if so.

 

[bailey777]

I know it was North Alabama. And I know we've seen games, times within games, shorter moments, etc... where we've spread things out and played with much more spacing, and from a more outside/in mindset. So its obviously very possible we'll go back to seeing a lot of dribble and post ISO stuff, double post stuff, etc... against Kennessaw and/or Nebraska.

But last night was fun. Not just because we made some threes. We actually ran stuff that generated good outside looks. Which then opened things up for two man action for a guard and Kelel or Malik to actually have room to do things inside.

The defense was mediocre, I thought. And the rebounding was sub par. We have to improve in those areas. Even if we do improve offensively, and get some more perimeter action going...we're still not good enough to consistently score that way against good teams. We need to get stops and rebounds, and get stuff in transition. We didn't do enough of that last night, and its way we didn't win by 40.

Hopefully the offensive strategy sticks. And we can get a little better defensively. And we can get A LOT better rebounding the ball. We could be a dangerous tournament team if so.

Hard to say because the competition was not good. We would need to see this against a good team to really know if anything is different.

 

[IUNorth]

Hard to say because the competition was not good. We would need to see this against a good team to really know if anything is different.

We can run those things against anyone we like. The question is will they?

Last night WAS different. Will they commit to it, is the question I think?

And then...it won't really matter a ton if we don't get better defensively and on the boards.

 

[Middawg]

Airing of Grievances.

The standing around, walking around, ball watching when a shot goes up, jogging on cuts, not sprinting the floor, and not being in athletic position or stance on offense and defense.


Can CMW, please for the love of God, set the expectation that none of that shit should ever happen in games.

 

[IUNorth]

Airing of Grievances.

The standing around, walking around, ball watching when a shot goes up, jogging on cuts, not sprinting the floor, and not being in athletic position or stance on offense and defense.


Can CMW, please for the love of God, set the expectation that none of that shit should ever happen in games.

2 years and 12 games in...doubt he starts demanding those things now.

 

[Middawg]

2 years and 12 games in...doubt he starts demanding those things now.

To be fair to your OP, I see a handful or two of new small things to really like each new game usually.

Question is.

Is the growth, experience, and improvement on a steep enough incline for this team to be successful in the Big Ten and the team I think it can be come Tourney time?

As CMW would tell the media, "Time will tell."

 

[Beorik]

To be fair to your OP, I see a handful or two of new small things to really like each new game usually.

Question is.

Is the growth, experience, and improvement on a steep enough incline for this team to be successful in the Big Ten and the team I think it can be come Tourney time?

As CMW would tell the media, "Time will tell."

And to me it’s disingenuous to act like it is a systemic coaching issue. Sure Reneau and Mgbako seem to stand a bit and become observers. Mgbako has gotten better though. Plus Galloway, Walker, Cupps, Ware, and Gunn all seem to hustle all the time.

We are young and players are still learning.

 

[IUNorth]

And to me it’s disingenuous to act like it is a systemic coaching issue. Sure Reneau and Mgbako seem to stand a bit and become observers. Mgbako has gotten better though. Plus Galloway, Walker, Cupps, Ware, and Gunn all seem to hustle all the time.

We are young and players are still learning.

Oh I'm not sure about that.

There's way too much tape on Woody's IU teams being inconsistent, in many ways, but certainly with intensity and effort...to not be worried its systemic.

If effort and attention to detail was hammered in to every practice, every drill... it wouldn't be as inconsistent as we've seen it be from his IU teams. Too many good, mature, talented players.

Now...one thing we have seen from his teams thus far is resiliency. And there has been a general upward trend as the season winds down. The inconsistency has ended up biting them in the rear both years in the NCAA's...but they did play themselves in to those situations.

I hope they can do that again this year. They're a unique challenge for a lot of teams, and if they can play a few games of inspired ball, they could make some noise in March.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

I know it was North Alabama. And I know we've seen games, times within games, shorter moments, etc... where we've spread things out and played with much more spacing, and from a more outside/in mindset. So its obviously very possible we'll go back to seeing a lot of dribble and post ISO stuff, double post stuff, etc... against Kennessaw and/or Nebraska.

But last night was fun. Not just because we made some threes. We actually ran stuff that generated good outside looks. Which then opened things up for two man action for a guard and Kelel or Malik to actually have room to do things inside.

The defense was mediocre, I thought. And the rebounding was sub par. We have to improve in those areas. Even if we do improve offensively, and get some more perimeter action going...we're still not good enough to consistently score that way against good teams. We need to get stops and rebounds, and get stuff in transition. We didn't do enough of that last night, and its way we didn't win by 40.

Hopefully the offensive strategy sticks. And we can get a little better defensively. And we can get A LOT better rebounding the ball. We could be a dangerous tournament team if so.

That's a lot of ifs and I wouldn't bet on them if I were a betting man, which I am. But I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

Oh I'm not sure about that.

There's way too much tape on Woody's IU teams being inconsistent, in many ways, but certainly with intensity and effort...to not be worried its systemic.

If effort and attention to detail was hammered in to every practice, every drill... it wouldn't be as inconsistent as we've seen it be from his IU teams. Too many good, mature, talented players.

Now...one thing we have seen from his teams thus far is resiliency. And there has been a general upward trend as the season winds down. The inconsistency has ended up biting them in the rear both years in the NCAA's...but they did play themselves in to those situations.

I hope they can do that again this year. They're a unique challenge for a lot of teams, and if they can play a few games of inspired ball, they could make some noise in March.

Intensity and effort...it sure would be great if CMW recruited more players that didn't need to be coached into consistent intensity and effort. Players Like Galloway, Cupps, etc.

It's very difficult to coach those things into a player, imo.

IU has WAY too many players that aren't consistent effort guys to be very successful this season, imo.

 

[.Gerdis]

We have a pretty devastating 1-2-3 frontcourt punch. Will be interesting to see how they progress this year, and who is back next yr.

 

[kkott]

Oh I'm not sure about that.

There's way too much tape on Woody's IU teams being inconsistent, in many ways, but certainly with intensity and effort...to not be worried its systemic.

If effort and attention to detail was hammered in to every practice, every drill... it wouldn't be as inconsistent as we've seen it be from his IU teams. Too many good, mature, talented players.

Now...one thing we have seen from his teams thus far is resiliency. And there has been a general upward trend as the season winds down. The inconsistency has ended up biting them in the rear both years in the NCAA's...but they did play themselves in to those situations.

I hope they can do that again this year. They're a unique challenge for a lot of teams, and if they can play a few games of inspired ball, they could make some noise in March.

I don't know. I think so much of it is chemistry within a specific group of guys. One thing we've done is gotten a boatload of "nice" guys. Seems like CMW, Archie and Crean all were wowed by the physical attributes of the guys they wanted and haven't really valued the "dawg" in a guy. But, look at MSU. All I heard about was how disjointed and disintetested they looked this year and then they looked like a totally different team vs Baylor. You know Izzo is demanding toughness and attention to detail in every practice and drill. I just think it's hard when you build a portal team like this with so many new faces. We need a guy to encourage and push guys to play harder. I've heard many people comment on how little this team talks on D and that is a sign of a team without a leader and many/any dawgs.

 

[hozo4ultimate]

Hard to say because the competition was not good. We would need to see this against a good team to really know if anything is different.

Like Kansas? And wasn't this the same type of awful team they were struggling against?
Last night was progress. Hopefully Xavier is healing up, beat Nebraska.

 

[IUNorth]

Intensity and effort...it sure would be great if CMW recruited more players that didn't need to be coached into consistent intensity and effort. Players Like Galloway, Cupps, etc.

It's very difficult to coach those things into a player, imo.

IU has WAY too many players that aren't consistent effort guys to be very successful this season, imo.

That could be true nowadays...but man, I just don't think it is.

If you demand it, truly demand it, from the second any of these kids step on campus...every single rep, drill, practice, plays and minutes in games, etc... It becomes a habit.

Obviously some will play harder and more intense than others. Not everyone will become AJ Moye type kids. But they'll all play harder and more intense, if its coached in to them, and demanded of them.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I don't know. I think so much of it is chemistry within a specific group of guys. One thing we've done is gotten a boatload of "nice" guys. Seems like CMW, Archie and Crean all were wowed by the physical attributes of the guys they wanted and haven't really valued the "dawg" in a guy. But, look at MSU. All I heard about was how disjointed and disintetested they looked this year and then they looked like a totally different team vs Baylor. You know Izzo is demanding toughness and attention to detail in every practice and drill. I just think it's hard when you build a portal team like this with so many new faces. We need a guy to encourage and push guys to play harder. I've heard many people comment on how little this team talks on D and that is a sign of a team without a leader and many/any dawgs.

All true.....seems to me that our biggest problem is that our guys who play the hardest aren't all that good and/or basketball smart......ie Galloway, Cupps, Banks, Gunn, Sparks, Leal, Walker, while the guys who have the most talent (Ware, MR, MM) give inconsistent effort. Then there's X who is in his own category.

 

[ButHerEmails]

I know it was North Alabama. And I know we've seen games, times within games, shorter moments, etc... where we've spread things out and played with much more spacing, and from a more outside/in mindset. So its obviously very possible we'll go back to seeing a lot of dribble and post ISO stuff, double post stuff, etc... against Kennessaw and/or Nebraska.

But last night was fun. Not just because we made some threes. We actually ran stuff that generated good outside looks. Which then opened things up for two man action for a guard and Kelel or Malik to actually have room to do things inside.

The defense was mediocre, I thought. And the rebounding was sub par. We have to improve in those areas. Even if we do improve offensively, and get some more perimeter action going...we're still not good enough to consistently score that way against good teams. We need to get stops and rebounds, and get stuff in transition. We didn't do enough of that last night, and its way we didn't win by 40.

Hopefully the offensive strategy sticks. And we can get a little better defensively. And we can get A LOT better rebounding the ball. We could be a dangerous tournament team if so.

Under Woodson, IU hasn’t had an issue getting open (open by a goddamn mile) looks from outside, we just didn’t hit them.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

That could be true nowadays...but man, I just don't think it is.

If you demand it, truly demand it, from the second any of these kids step on campus...every single rep, drill, practice, plays and minutes in games, etc... It becomes a habit.

Obviously some will play harder and more intense than others. Not everyone will become AJ Moye type kids. But they'll all play harder and more intense, if its coached in to them, and demanded of them.

And that could be something that an assistant coach or two could do if Woody didn't feel comfortable with it. They don't appear to have a lot of fire either.

 

[IUNorth]

And that could be something that an assistant coach or two could do if Woody didn't feel comfortable with it. They don't appear to have a lot of fire either.

I guess? He had a guy that I would think coached that way in Fife...that didn't work out.

Honestly have no idea what actually happened there...but possibly Dane didn't like the lack of actual accountability, and was too vocal about it? That's a reach on my part, I have no clue. But to your point, we had a guy that I'm sure had no issues demanding kids play hard. For whatever reason, he didn't jive with Woody.

 

[bailey777]

We can run those things against anyone we like. The question is will they?

Last night WAS different. Will they commit to it, is the question I think?

And then...it won't really matter a ton if we don't get better defensively and on the boards.

I think we should just sit back and let Malik take three pointers. He is the last guy I ever thought would be good at threes. He is certainly alot better than gunn from three.

 

[hozo4ultimate]

I guess? He had a guy that I would think coached that way in Fife...that didn't work out.

Honestly have no idea what actually happened there...but possibly Dane didn't like the lack of actual accountability, and was too vocal about it? That's a reach on my part, I have no clue. But to your point, we had a guy that I'm sure had no issues demanding kids play hard. For whatever reason, he didn't jive with Woody.

Right, a guy that played at IU, the NBA and coached in the NBA for multiple teams doesn't demand kids play hard. That is just dumb.

Jakai had a jersey on last night. He and Xavier were standing at half court during pre-game warm-up. Sure would've been nice to see those two running with Mac, Ware and MR. Tough circumstances for this team.

 

[Hatchets7times]

I look at Indiana as a average Big Ten team.
If they even make the tournament..Their going to be a high seed ..
And at best win one game...This is not a very good Indiana team..Hell last yrs team wasn't really either...imo

 

[mobilehoosier]

We have a guard problem. Not elite. Matters.
Go Hoosiers!

 

[IUNorth]

Right, a guy that played at IU, the NBA and coached in the NBA for multiple teams doesn't demand kids play hard. That is just dumb.

Jakai had a jersey on last night. He and Xavier were standing at half court during pre-game warm-up. Sure would've been nice to see those two running with Mac, Ware and MR. Tough circumstances for this team.

So why haven't his players consistently played hard?

 

[bbafficionado]

My problem with every IU team under woodrow is the statue of liberty look after a 3 is shot. They stand there admiring the shot with the hand in the air. How are we going to rebound better when the shooter is either not following his shot or not covering the breakout. Im old school and was taught to follow the shot to get what, a rebound. They never do. Pay attention to how many balls come out the direction of the shooter. How many opportunities are lost on this alone? Sure, we have not taken that many threes but as we saw last night that might be changing in the future and it will become more important. The difference in the outcome of a game can be one rebound all by itself. And as for the team getting rebounds you first have to commit to going after them. This team does not.

 

[IUbball_lifer]

Airing of Grievances.

The standing around, walking around, ball watching when a shot goes up, jogging on cuts, not sprinting the floor, and not being in athletic position or stance on offense and defense.


Can CMW, please for the love of God, set the expectation that none of that shit should ever happen in games.

Those are on my list. It’s not that hard to coach that. The assistants should be told to coach that in the game. When a guy comes out of the game, the asst should talk to him to correct and reinforce it.
One of my pet peeves is MM and Banks ALWAYS getting up too tight into the offensive player’s kitchen when he has the ball on the perimeter. They need to back off a step. They either foul or get beat off of the dribble. Banks got his 2nd foul on that last night. Came out of the game and nobody said a word to him. Why doesn’t Woodson correct this with both of them? That’s a rhetorical question. Maddening.

 

[Willdog7]

Hard to say because the competition was not good. We would need to see this against a good team to really know if anything is different.

naysayer

 

[T.M.P.]

My problem with every IU team under woodrow is the statue of liberty look after a 3 is shot. They stand there admiring the shot with the hand in the air. How are we going to rebound better when the shooter is either not following his shot or not covering the breakout. Im old school and was taught to follow the shot to get what, a rebound. They never do. Pay attention to how many balls come out the direction of the shooter. How many opportunities are lost on this alone? Sure, we have not taken that many threes but as we saw last night that might be changing in the future and it will become more important. The difference in the outcome of a game can be one rebound all by itself. And as for the team getting rebounds you first have to commit to going after them. This team does not.

It's situational ... depending on many factors .. for guards and wings, shooting above the FT line, generally the consensus is ... be ready to get back on D and not allow run outs. Some coaches will have guards crash and give up a few breaks for more offensive rebounds..

 

[T.M.P.]

Those are on my list. It’s not that hard to coach that. The assistants should be told to coach that in the game. When a guy comes out of the game, the asst should talk to him to correct and reinforce it.
One of my pet peeves is MM and Banks ALWAYS getting up too tight into the offensive player’s kitchen when he has the ball on the perimeter. They need to back off a step. They either foul or get beat off of the dribble. Banks got his 2nd foul on that last night. Came out of the game and nobody said a word to him. Why doesn’t Woodson correct this with both of them? That’s a rhetorical question. Maddening.

Oh brother ... just because you don't see it, or it doesn't happen when you want it to doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

That could be true nowadays...but man, I just don't think it is.

If you demand it, truly demand it, from the second any of these kids step on campus...every single rep, drill, practice, plays and minutes in games, etc... It becomes a habit.

Obviously some will play harder and more intense than others. Not everyone will become AJ Moye type kids. But they'll all play harder and more intense, if its coached in to them, and demanded of them.

Some will. Some won't. But if you recruit bulldogs out of HS you have bulldogs stepping on campus. And if you have 5 or 6 bulldogs on the team...they will pull the low energy/laid back players along with them. It's difficult to coach a team full of low energy guys into consistent effort guys.

 

[TR32]

All true.....seems to me that our biggest problem is that our guys who play the hardest aren't all that good and/or basketball smart......ie Galloway, Cupps, Banks, Gunn, Sparks, Leal, Walker, while the guys who have the most talent (Ware, MR, MM) give inconsistent effort. Then there's X who is in his own category.

What you say is true and it's how they each got to that level. Lazy players need to be really tall and talented. Shorter, slower, less talented guys need to bust their tails and/or shoot the lights out.

Building the team matters. The thing that concerns me most about Woodson is that this team needs to get a lot better, which may take years, but instead there are some who think key players will not be back next season, and the recruiting class equals one.
It's like 2014 right now. Crean was gone 3 years later because he couldn't build a program with sustained success. Woodson has an almost insurmountable challenge ahead in fielding a competitive team next year unless they are all back.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

And that could be something that an assistant coach or two could do if Woody didn't feel comfortable with it. They don't appear to have a lot of fire either.

well....on of the guys on the bench is the all time B1G scoring leader, former POY and played 4 yrs under you know who. I know his official title is Dir of Player Development.....so there. I would hope Cal still has a little dawg left in him.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I know it was North Alabama. And I know we've seen games, times within games, shorter moments, etc... where we've spread things out and played with much more spacing, and from a more outside/in mindset. So its obviously very possible we'll go back to seeing a lot of dribble and post ISO stuff, double post stuff, etc... against Kennessaw and/or Nebraska.

But last night was fun. Not just because we made some threes. We actually ran stuff that generated good outside looks. Which then opened things up for two man action for a guard and Kelel or Malik to actually have room to do things inside.

The defense was mediocre, I thought. And the rebounding was sub par. We have to improve in those areas. Even if we do improve offensively, and get some more perimeter action going...we're still not good enough to consistently score that way against good teams. We need to get stops and rebounds, and get stuff in transition. We didn't do enough of that last night, and its way we didn't win by 40.

Hopefully the offensive strategy sticks. And we can get a little better defensively. And we can get A LOT better rebounding the ball. We could be a dangerous tournament team if so.

The action around the elbow when Galloway usually made a great pass for a dunk was very special in my view. Sure 3's are great but if you can get a dunk then get a dunk. It's high percentage. I agree last night was something to build on. IU wasn't shooting this well against any of the lower competition this season so I hope they watch a lot of tape and then bombs away and dunks galore.

 

[Imsowyctcwuzbetta]

To be fair to your OP, I see a handful or two of new small things to really like each new game usually.

Question is.

Is the growth, experience, and improvement on a steep enough incline for this team to be successful in the Big Ten and the team I think it can be come Tourney time?

As CMW would tell the media, "Time will tell."

Time is the great revealer!

 

[asindc]

Oh I'm not sure about that.

There's way too much tape on Woody's IU teams being inconsistent, in many ways, but certainly with intensity and effort...to not be worried its systemic.

If effort and attention to detail was hammered in to every practice, every drill... it wouldn't be as inconsistent as we've seen it be from his IU teams. Too many good, mature, talented players.

Now...one thing we have seen from his teams thus far is resiliency. And there has been a general upward trend as the season winds down. The inconsistency has ended up biting them in the rear both years in the NCAA's...but they did play themselves in to those situations.

I hope they can do that again this year. They're a unique challenge for a lot of teams, and if they can play a few games of inspired ball, they could make some noise in March.

Inconsistency is just the kind of thing you see from young players.

 

[IUbball_lifer]

Oh brother ... just because you don't see it, or it doesn't happen when you want it to doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

You ain’t my brother, Mr. Obvious. But thx for letting me know there is coaching occurring behind the scenes. Since you are sharing nuggets of wisdom, here is one for you. Asst coaches in most programs are constantly teaching during the game.

 

[T.M.P.]

You ain’t my brother, Mr. Obvious. But thx for letting me know there is coaching occurring behind the scenes. Since you are sharing nuggets of wisdom, here is one for you. Asst coaches in most programs are constantly teaching during the game.

You don't understand the meaning of common idioms when used as an interjection either. Like I said just because it doesn't happen when you want it to .. that's the only issue or problem you can point to... but - it's not about you.

 

[Harry Hondo]

I know it was North Alabama. And I know we've seen games, times within games, shorter moments, etc... where we've spread things out and played with much more spacing, and from a more outside/in mindset. So its obviously very possible we'll go back to seeing a lot of dribble and post ISO stuff, double post stuff, etc... against Kennessaw and/or Nebraska.

But last night was fun. Not just because we made some threes. We actually ran stuff that generated good outside looks. Which then opened things up for two man action for a guard and Kelel or Malik to actually have room to do things inside.

The defense was mediocre, I thought. And the rebounding was sub par. We have to improve in those areas. Even if we do improve offensively, and get some more perimeter action going...we're still not good enough to consistently score that way against good teams. We need to get stops and rebounds, and get stuff in transition. We didn't do enough of that last night, and its way we didn't win by 40.

Hopefully the offensive strategy sticks. And we can get a little better defensively. And we can get A LOT better rebounding the ball. We could be a dangerous tournament team if so.

Has a Woodson team ever put up 24 3’s before? IU needs to shoot at least 20 a game .They won’t shoot 50%, but shooting just 37% as a team will change the complexion of the team and give them better chance to win.

I also love Galloway playing the PG role of driving down the lane and dishing it to an open Ware/Reneau down low or kicking it out to an open shooter. Galloway is perfect for this, because he’s a formidable scorer driving to the hoop, which also becomes an option for him instead of dishing it off. If he can hit his FT’s and improve his 3 ball he can be playing at an all-B10 level.

 

[Imsowyctcwuzbetta]

Inconsistency is just the kind of thing you see from young players.

Johnson, Galloway and Walker are our only "mature" players... not sure what he is talking about... but i am very sure consistency is mentioned quite often in practice.

 

[ThreeToMakeTwo]

The bnttload of assists was great.

 

[bbafficionado]

It's situational ... depending on many factors .. for guards and wings, shooting above the FT line, generally the consensus is ... be ready to get back on D and not allow run outs. Some coaches will have guards crash and give up a few breaks for more offensive rebounds..

I agree with you 100% But they are doing neither, they stand frozen to the court. Move in or move out. Have it be known before a shot is taken whos covering and go. Or whos going to the board and get it.