Fareed's Take: Trump is gutting what made American science great

[Eppy99]

I've got to think a reduction in scence in academic sphere's will at some point begin to hurt the business private sector. Between the brain drain and lack of innovation it will eventually hurt our economy. How long until we see the effect? That remains to be seen.

Like Fareed points out, one of the historical shifts in America becoming a leader in science were the Jewish scientists forced out of Europe. Certainly scientists won't be forced out of the US due to their religion, but this time it may come down to opportunity and recruitment from other countries. Hopefully the private sector can keep our best and brightest in the country because it seems the universities will continue to lose funding to support their salaries and research.

 

[outside shooter]

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

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I've got to think a reduction in scence in academic sphere's will at some point begin to hurt the business private sector. Between the brain drain and lack of innovation it will eventually hurt our economy. How long until we see the effect? That remains to be seen.

Like Fareed points out, one of the historical shifts in America becoming a leader in science were the Jewish scientists forced out of Europe. Certainly scientists won't be forced out of the US due to their religion, but this time it may come down to opportunity and recruitment from other countries. Hopefully the private sector can keep our best and brightest in the country because it seems the universities will continue to lose funding to support their salaries and research.

We are witnessing first hand how much damage a president can do. Never would have had "brain drain" on the bingo card for the President's accomplishments.

 

[Eppy99]

I can understand policies that fundamentally want to pull back some DEI and wokeness, but at what expense is this worth it? I fear what Fareed says that it will gut a science community that took years to build and may never return as foreign countries take advantage of our new policies. There needs to be a negotiation between both sides.

 

[BradStevens]

I can understand policies that fundamentally want to pull back some DEI and wokeness, but at what expense is this worth it? I fear what Fareed says that it will gut a science community that took years to build and may never return as foreign countries take advantage of our new policies. There needs to be a negotiation between both sides.

DEI (as it is thought of and practiced by its idealogues) and wokeness have nothing to do with science (as rightly conceived) or the U.S.'s development of scientific dominance. So there is no expense to jettisoning it, except for the normal transaction costs for all change.

Fareed isn't complaining about Trump's war on DEI in that piece, by the way.

 

[Eppy99]

DEI (as it is thought of and practiced by its idealogues) and wokeness have nothing to do with science (as rightly conceived) or the U.S.'s development of scientific dominance. So there is no expense to jettisoning it, except for the normal transaction costs for all change.

Fareed isn't complaining about Trump's war on DEI in that piece, by the way.

Oh I realize that. Don’t you think Trump is fighting with the Academic institutions because he wants them to roll back DEI initiatives? You could throw in the politics of Israel and anti-semitism but I think he would be pulling funding regardless.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Oh I realize that. Don’t you think Trump is fighting with the Academic institutions because he wants them to roll back DEI initiatives? You could throw in the politics of Israel and anti-semitism but I think he would be pulling funding regardless.

Watched 30 seconds and that was enough. Fareed misses the plot. As do most. Those who deem trump racist or hear anti science or whatever can’t see the forest for the trees

Trump is anti those things because he believes they are supported by the other side. Dei. Woke. Follow the science. Academics. They are in trump’s eyes totems of the other side. Spite he understands. Opposition. If the president and bot and provosts at mit proclaimed tomorrow that they believe in trump and they lavished him with praise trump would be supportive of academia. If blm said they have reconsidered and support trump he’d welcome them with open arms.

He’s shallow. He’s spiteful. And he is better a ceo than someone who has to work with the other side as opposed to beating the other side.

Getting in the weeds evinces a lack of understanding of trump and his followers. He’s not going to have an epiphany that he was wrong about research. That’s not the language he understands. They’d be better served finding a candidate that can beat him and rebuilding the Dem party. By the time trump is done it won’t take much. A bar just higher than AOC etc

 

[dbmhoosier]

We are witnessing first hand how much damage a president can do. Never would have had "brain drain" on the bingo card for the President's accomplishments.

Your President purposely opened the border and let in 15k convicted murderers among god knows who else. Shut up.

 

[mcmurtry66]

We are witnessing first hand how much damage a president can do. Never would have had "brain drain" on the bingo card for the President's accomplishments.

Yes we witnessed it with Biden

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

We are witnessing first hand how much damage a president can do. Never would have had "brain drain" on the bingo card for the President's accomplishments.

Bullshit.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Your President purposely opened the border and let in 15k convicted murderers among god knows who else. Shut up.

So you believe everything your bronze idol lies to you about?

 

[mcmurtry66]

So you believe every thing your bronze idol lies to you about?

Ten million crossed moron. The non confined docket is shocking
This predates Biden too but that Biden was one dumber mother fckr. Hickory dumb

Archived: ICE releases Fiscal Year 2024 Annual Report

In FY 2024, ERO worked to improve its operational efficiency through several modernization initiatives, continued its interior enforcement efforts, cared for all noncitizens in ICE custody, and delivered case management services to those on the non-detained docket while optimizing the agency’s...

www.ice.gov

 

[Eppy99]

Watched 30 seconds and that was enough. Fareed misses the plot. As do most. Those who deem trump racist or hear anti science or whatever can’t see the forest for the trees

Trump is anti those things because he believes they are supported by the other side. Dei. Woke. Follow the science. Academics. They are in trump’s eyes totems of the other side. Spite he understands. Opposition. If the president and bot and provosts at mit proclaimed tomorrow that they believe in trump and they lavished him with praise trump would be supportive of academia. If blm said they have reconsidered and support trump he’d welcome them with open arms.

He’s shallow. He’s spiteful. And he is better a ceo than someone who has to work with the other side as opposed to beating the other side.

Getting in the weeds evinces a lack of understanding of trump and his followers. He’s not going to have an epiphany that he was wrong about research. That’s not the language he understands. They’d be better served finding a candidate that can beat him and rebuilding the Dem party. By the time trump is done it won’t take much. A bar just higher than AOC etc

I don't think he misunderstands Trump at all. His point is Trump is single handedly undoing 100 years of the United States becoming a leader in science. He's sacrificing academic science for whatever it is he's trying to do. We can fill in the blank for whatever that is, but there's no doubt our country will be giving ground to China, Europe or whoever welcomes these researchers. No offense, but watching 30 seconds of Fareed's video doesn't give you the full context of his message.

 

[Eppy99]

Bullshit.

Bullshit about what? That we didnt realize when Trump took over he would alienate the science community or you don't think that's actually whats happening? How do you think these researchers get their salaries paid and can afford their labs? It's grant money. Lose the grants and you're pretty much shutting down the research.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I don't think he misunderstands Trump at all. His point is Trump is single handedly undoing 100 years of the United States becoming a leader in science. He's sacrificing academic science for whatever it is he's trying to do. We can fill in the blank for whatever that is, but there's no doubt our country will be giving ground to China, Europe or whoever welcomes these researchers. No offense, but watching 30 seconds of Fareed's video doesn't give you the full context of his message.

I don't think he misunderstands Trump at all. His point is Trump is single handedly undoing 100 years of the United States becoming a leader in science. He's sacrificing academic science for whatever it is he's trying to do. We can fill in the blank for whatever that is, but there's no doubt our country will be giving ground to China, Europe or whoever welcomes these researchers. No offense, but watching 30 seconds of Fareed's video doesn't give you the full context of his message.

Hyperbolic. It’s been weeks. Other funding can be tapped. Alternatives adopted. Some things scaled on a short term.

My how fast we forget. And remember much of this was political too. I stand by what I wrote

Impact of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic on scientific research and implications for clinical academic training – A review - PMC

A pneumonia outbreak of unknown aetiology emerged in Wuhan, China in December 2019. The causative organism was identified on 7th January 2020 as a novel coronavirus (nCoV or 2019-nCoV), later renamed severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Scientific research stopped for COVID-19. Now it’s trying to get back into gear.

When the pandemic hit, scientists halted experiments and euthanized research animals. Now they’re trying to pick up where they left off.

www.marketplace.org

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

This is something I’m a little mixed on. The Ivys, Cal Berkeley…. Hell, half the institutions in our country are liberal cesspools of woke nonsense. But one of the purposes of university life is to expand thought processes and to be exposed to conflicting views on topics. But all Trump understands is the fact that one either smooches his ass or one doesn’t. He will absolutely go down as the worst president in history and mostly because he’s a petty mother fvcker

 

[mcmurtry66]

This is something I’m a little mixed on. The Ivys, Cal Berkeley…. Hell, half the institutions in our country are liberal cesspools of woke nonsense. But one of the purposes of university life is to expand thought processes and to be exposed to conflicting views on topics. But all Trump understands is the fact that one either smooches his ass or one doesn’t. He will absolutely go down as the worst president in history and mostly because he’s a petty mother fvcker

I think Biden and woke are worse. The legacy of that 41 year price spike. Open borders. God knows how many are left out there on the nonconfined that’ll never show etc. but yes trump is terrible too. It’s a race to the bottom

 

[mcmurtry66]

This is something I’m a little mixed on. The Ivys, Cal Berkeley…. Hell, half the institutions in our country are liberal cesspools of woke nonsense. But one of the purposes of university life is to expand thought processes and to be exposed to conflicting views on topics. But all Trump understands is the fact that one either smooches his ass or one doesn’t. He will absolutely go down as the worst president in history and mostly because he’s a petty mother fvcker

The craziest is if AOC wins in 28. We’ll go trump, squad, trump, squad. That’s a long stretch of stench

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

The craziest is if AOC wins in 28. We’ll go trump, squad, trump, squad. That’s a long stretch of stench

There needs to be an Easy button like that commercial to pick a president

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

The engine of government funded research in universities is a massive competitive advantage wrt the rest of the world.

I have no love lost for Harvard or their admissions practices, but I’m not sure that cutting their diabetes and cancer research funding is productive and reprimands the right people.

I also have a cure to diabetes btw. Stop eating fatty.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

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I've got to think a reduction in scence in academic sphere's will at some point begin to hurt the business private sector. Between the brain drain and lack of innovation it will eventually hurt our economy. How long until we see the effect? That remains to be seen.

Like Fareed points out, one of the historical shifts in America becoming a leader in science were the Jewish scientists forced out of Europe. Certainly scientists won't be forced out of the US due to their religion, but this time it may come down to opportunity and recruitment from other countries. Hopefully the private sector can keep our best and brightest in the country because it seems the universities will continue to lose funding to support their salaries and research.

Our system throws up roadblocks to the highly qualified immigrants who can advance science and technology. Our system embraces the poor, uneducated, and maybe violent immigrants who enter illegally, with phony asylum claims, are given refugee status through the parole system, or the B 1 b’s who are here to work at low rates,. Everything I heard Trump say about immigration reverses this system.

As far as funding cuts are concerned, more research doesn’t necessarily create more useful science, and if a university loses funding, it’s because they chose to continue to use unscientific and non-merit criteria to fund scientists.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

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Nice speech but he was never faced with a 15 million person free for all at the southern border as administered by the last administration.

A country has to have borders. Otherwise it’s not much of a country at all.

Let’s call it what it is. Democrats purposely ignored and bastardized our immigration system in an effort to win eventual votes and house seats.

Republicans would have a 30+ seat advantage in the house if we only counted legal citizens. More than that if the 2020 census wasn’t so bungled.

That is evil.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Our system throws up roadblocks to the highly qualified immigrants who can advance science and technology. Our system embraces the poor, uneducated, and maybe violent immigrants who enter illegally, with phony asylum claims, are given refugee status through the parole system, or the B 1 b’s who are here to work at low rates,. Everything I heard Trump say about immigration reverses this system.

As far as funding cuts are concerned, more research doesn’t necessarily create more useful science, and if a university loses funding, it’s because they chose to continue to use unscientific and non-merit criteria to fund scientists.

I suspect your last sentence isn’t entirely accurate coh. I think the cuts have been less discriminating than that. I like the idea of trimming the fat and funding core shit and not using universities as a tax supported jobs program for people hiding at universities but trump is using a chainsaw again

 

[mcmurtry66]

Nice speech but he was never faced with a 15 million person free for all at the southern border as administered by the last administration.

A country has to have borders. Otherwise it’s not much of a country at all.

Let’s call it what it is. Democrats purposely ignored and bastardized our immigration system in an effort to win eventual votes and house seats.

Republicans would have a 30+ seat advantage in the house if we only counted legal citizens. More than that if the 2020 census wasn’t so bungled.

That is evil.

Dems immigration policy was criminal

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I suspect your last sentence isn’t entirely accurate coh. I think the cuts have been less discriminating than that. I like the idea of trimming the fat and funding core shit and not using universities as a tax supported jobs program for people hiding at universities but trump is using a chainsaw again

Well, there are many DOGE cuts. Some of those are definitely useless, but they are insignificant in the total spending picture,

I have some familiarity with folks who chased research grants for the engineering school Colorado State. Back in the 20th century, they visited and wined and dined industry. Then the focus shifted to members of Congress, bureaucrats, and staffers. My personal opinion is that government pursues ideology and industry pursues product improvement and making more money.

 

[BradStevens]

Oh I realize that. Don’t you think Trump is fighting with the Academic institutions because he wants them to roll back DEI initiatives? You could throw in the politics of Israel and anti-semitism but I think he would be pulling funding regardless.

I think the Trump admin is fighting with academic institutions for more than one reason. I don't think the science funding issues have much to do with the anti-DEI efforts, though.

Broadly speaking, I guess you could say that MAGA might refer to all the evils they see in the modern university system as woke, but I think that would be a mistake in nomenclature.

Instead, I think MAGA views these universities in a tribal way--they think of them as sources of power for their rival tribe and so want to harm them, no matter what that might mean for the country.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Well, there are many DOGE cuts. Some of those are definitely useless, but they are insignificant in the total spending picture,

I have some familiarity with folks who chased research grants for the engineering school Colorado State. Back in the 20th century, they visited and wined and dined industry. Then the focus shifted to members of Congress, bureaucrats, and staffers. My personal opinion is that government pursues ideology and industry pursues product improvement and making more money.

I live a couple blocks from Wash U and my daughter is a frequent flyer at Wash u med. it is second in the entire country in nih research money. Second. I have a lot of familiarity with it from old partners who sat on the board all the way down to my daughter as an ongoing patient. There’s not a lot of waste there

That’s what I think we can all agree we don’t want cut/impacted. Medical research. Diseases etc. Wash u George warren brown bullshit research cut it. Social crap. They can pay for it themselves or get rid of it. I don’t think trunp’s recognizing the difference

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

I live a couple blocks from Wash U and my daughter is a frequent flyer at Wash u med. it is second in the entire country in nih research money. Second. I have a lot of familiarity with it from old partners who sat on the board all the down to my daughter as an ongoing patient. There’s not a lot of waste there

That’s what I think we can all agree we don’t want cut/impacted. Medical research. Diseases etc. Wash u George warren brown bullshit research cut it. They can pay for it themselves or get rid of it

Money is fungible. 5 million from the Feds to fund medical research is 5 million they can put towards nonsense.

WashU is Marxist. Scary place.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Money is fungible. 5 million from the Feds to fund medical research is 5 million they can put towards nonsense.

WashU is Marxist. Scary place.

Ha that’s complicated. It’s Barnes Jewish and was funded by the jewish community

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I live a couple blocks from Wash U and my daughter is a frequent flyer at Wash u med. it is second in the entire country in nih research money. Second. I have a lot of familiarity with it from old partners who sat on the board all the way down to my daughter as an ongoing patient. There’s not a lot of waste there

That’s what I think we can all agree we don’t want cut/impacted. Medical research. Diseases etc. Wash u George warren brown bullshit research cut it. Social crap. They can pay for it themselves or get rid of it. I don’t think trunp’s recognizing the difference

I won’t deny some important research could help be impacted. I would hope that saner heads would steady the ship. Certainly many universities do important government work.

A consortium of universities run the Los Alamos labs. I would expect the research there wouldn’t be curtailed just cuz universities are involved.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Money is fungible. 5 million from the Feds to fund medical research is 5 million they can put towards nonsense.

WashU is Marxist. Scary place.

This assumes they have the extra 5 mil. Do they?

 

[BradStevens]

Ha that’s complicated. It’s Barnes Jewish and was funded by the jewish community

And Lenin was part Jewish! Confirmed!

 

[mcmurtry66]

I won’t deny some important research could help be impacted. I would hope that saner heads would steady the ship. Certainly many universities do important government work.

A consortium of universities run the Los Alamos labs. I would expect the research there wouldn’t be curtailed just cuz universities are involved.

Yup my ex’s brother did a post doc there. Did one at iu as well after mit

 

[mcmurtry66]

Money is fungible. 5 million from the Feds to fund medical research is 5 million they can put towards nonsense.

WashU is Marxist. Scary place.

Worst looking student body I’ve ever seen

 

[Eppy99]

Hyperbolic. It’s been weeks. Other funding can be tapped. Alternatives adopted. Some things scaled on a short term.

My how fast we forget. And remember much of this was political too. I stand by what I wrote

Impact of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic on scientific research and implications for clinical academic training – A review - PMC

A pneumonia outbreak of unknown aetiology emerged in Wuhan, China in December 2019. The causative organism was identified on 7th January 2020 as a novel coronavirus (nCoV or 2019-nCoV), later renamed severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Scientific research stopped for COVID-19. Now it’s trying to get back into gear.

When the pandemic hit, scientists halted experiments and euthanized research animals. Now they’re trying to pick up where they left off.

www.marketplace.org

Everyone was pretty sc

Worst looking student body I’ve ever seen

i can confirm. And the drivers in and near the university can’t drive for shit….or maybe that’s just a STL thing.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Everyone was pretty sc

i can confirm. And the drivers in and near the university can’t drive for shit….or maybe that’s just a STL thing.

Foreigners. Awful drivers

 

[Eppy99]

Foreigners. Awful drivers

That's kind of what I thought, also the amount of students from the east coast probably contribute this issue.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Instead, I think MAGA views these universities in a tribal way--they think of them as sources of power for their rival tribe and so want to harm them, no matter what that might mean for the country.

Except for STEM,, and some business and finance disciplines, MAGA has this exactly right. The pronoun and hair-trigger protest movement nonsense grew out of the universities. Graduates in you-name-it studies, or in the soft sciences are not well educated thinkers. This problem has even crept into legal education. Safe spaces, free speech zones, and general vacuous wokeness are ruining our ability to actually negotiate, compromise , and handle disagreements. The current good example is the so called “sit-in” theater the Democrats performed at the Capitol yesterday. People have lost their ability to productively resolve disputes and are instead merely acting-out their positions. I blame the leftist universities for this national stupidity.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

This is something I’m a little mixed on. The Ivys, Cal Berkeley…. Hell, half the institutions in our country are liberal cesspools of woke nonsense. But one of the purposes of university life is to expand thought processes and to be exposed to conflicting views on topics. But all Trump understands is the fact that one either smooches his ass or one doesn’t. He will absolutely go down as the worst president in history and mostly because he’s a petty mother fvcker

what exactly makes them liberal cesspools of woke nonsense? Woke just tends to be a catchall word for anything conservatives don't like and overused to get their followers to automatically be against it.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Except for STEM,, and some business and finance disciplines, MAGA has this exactly right. The pronoun and hair-trigger protest movement nonsense grew out of the universities. Graduates in you-name-it studies, or in the soft sciences are not well educated thinkers. This problem has even crept into legal education. Safe spaces, free speech zones, and general vacuous wokeness are ruining our ability to actually negotiate, compromise , and handle disagreements. The current good example is the so called “sit-in” theater the Democrats performed at the Capitol yesterday. People have lost their ability to productively resolve disputes and are instead merely acting-out their positions. I blame the leftist universities for this national stupidity.

Thank you! Is there a better example of the last 2 sentences in #38 than your ion-ogling laughing emogi?

Reaction buttons allow idiots like you on this board to perform their argument instead of thinking and explaining it. You would fit right in with the Democrats at the Capitol yesterday,