Death rate models have now doubled
- Thread starter zeke4ahs
- Start date
Why are you so scared to stay home?
Tell that to my buddy Joe, second-gen owner of family-run Party Central Rental. Wedding tents, bouncy castles, tuxedos, linens, chairs and tables, party favors, utensils? Anyone? No?
Any advice for Joe?
Then it’s fraud. You can’t bill for something that’s not officially diagnosed or a procedure that didn’t happen.
Understood, then where is the CDC getting the following categories and numbers then?
The CDC is reporting death numbers using several categories...
Deaths Involving COVID-19 / 44,016
Pneumonia Deaths / 70,251
Deaths With Pneumonia and COVID-19 / 19,453
Influenza Deaths / 5,971
Deaths With Pneumonia, Influenza or COVID-19 / 99,942
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku
Johns Hopkins currently has it at 75,543. Not sure where they are getting this number from and why so different?
The CDC gets their numbers from...
Note: Provisional death counts are based on death certificate data received and coded by the National Center for Health Statistics as of May 7, 2020.
Do you think those patients in your 3 examples were treated for covid?
If so, then there isn't fraud.
Footnotes are important... Number of deaths reported in this table are the total number of deaths received and coded as of the date of analysis, and do not represent all deaths that occurred in that period. Data during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more.
The key in CO’s example is that the patient is already diagnosed with COVID. At least that’s what I believe “covid patient” to mean. Then, yes, of course you can say the cause of death was covid. There are articles talking about the clotting disorders COVID 19 is causing and leading to strokes. But you can’t say it was COVID or bill for treating COVID if there isn’t a positive test. That might be different when it comes to how deaths are counted by a state or county government but that’s not diagnosing.
No advice for, Joe, but a lot of sympathy for the struggles his business is facing and I'd happily support better small business support then we've given so far to help businesses like his try to re-tool and bridge the gap. But, even then, his business might not make it because we can't force demand, so I support programs to help him transition if it doesn't. It's gonna be hard and hopefully it will be hard together and we'll support each other. You see, I don't have scorn for your buddy like the person I was responding to seems to have for hoot. So, I hope his business survives and I hope his, your, hoot's, and my loved ones do, too.
Why do you say “very likely”?
People dying at home aren’t part of the discussion about coding for fees.
"Multi focal pneumonia indicative of covid 19"
From your example, how is this patient treated?
They would be treated for the viral pneumonia they were diagnosed with. It doesn’t matter “how” they are treated. If a patient diagnosed with COVID suddenly can’t breathe and needs to go on a vent, they go on a vent. If a patient diagnosed with a viral pneumonia suddenly can’t breathe, they go on a vent.
Lmao did med mal for almost 20 years in Florida and Missouri. sued 4 hospitals for deceptive billing practices. You don’t know your audience chief.
I believe covid patients are treated with higher levels of peep than other viral pneumonia patients.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue.
I enjoyed the discussion. Have a good evening
You treat with the amount of peep the patient needs. Diagnosis doesn’t matter. Some require more, some require less. Not sure what your point is.
Fascinating to see how several posters suddenly became experts on medical billing all at the exact same time, and also just happen to have the exact same opinion on the subject.
Personal gain at the expense of others' death? Nobody is that evil, not even our president! After all, as he has told us, he is the best president in our history.I'm surprised that some of the same people here will automatically just assume that hospitals are rampantly partaking in fraudulent practices to make a buck, because "that's the system", and then turn around and bend over backwards to make sure that everyone understands that the POTUS would never use the power of his office for personal gain at the expense of others.
Just like the people that have been affected, and showed little or no symptoms, aren’t part of “the numbers”.
It sucks for Joe. Unfortunately business has risks.... and small businesses have exceedingly large idiosyncratic risks. Things that come out of nowhere and blindside an owner/ operator.
The sad thing is, that even if every govt restriction was lifted tomorrow.... consumers wouldn't be rushing out to host birthday parties and large weddings, e.t.c...... same issue that will be facing the travel/ leisure industries for the next year+.
I'm friends with the folks who run American Rent All in Perrysburg, which is one of the big party supply joints in the Toledo area. Luckily, they have other things going on, too, like a farm, but they have got to be hurting right now.
Lot of industries can't be cured simply be lifting restrictions. If DeWine lifted all restrictions tomorrow, it's not like big weddings would start happening again on Saturday.
Plenty of middle market companies are also going tits up because the drag on the economy is going to be much longer than people realize.
I agree and think that the real challenge many underestimate is consumer behavior. Regardless of what restrictions state governments do or do not have in place, the psychology of consumers and spenders will determines how quickly the economy rebounds. I’m no expert, but I can’t believe we even begin to approach what some would term “normal” until there is a vaccine.
We see it in even the publicly traded markets. The mega cap tech firms are still riding high...as their business model isn't impacted... and in many cases boosted by this situation. That's kept the broad based indexes not looking to bad.
Meanwhile the small cap firms are still down 30+% in value. These are companies worth $500m-$4b.... So just imagine what that's done to the true main street businesses.... that are only a fraction of that size.
The govt had a quick fiscal response that can paper over a few months... but the real ugly I fear will start showing up in the out months. The political will to keep pumping money out will dry up.... and the consumer economy will still be limping.
No one wants this guys business to go under. As Twenty points out and as I’ve said for weeks now, his business is suffering because we are in the midst of a global pandemic. The stay at home orders are not the issue. He could open tomorrow and he will see very decreased demand because people are not having large gatherings. There are not big kids birthday parties.
To back that up, an axe throwing bar (I went to one in Greenwood, it is great fun) opened up in Atlanta. They advertised. They had two customers opening weekend. https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news...-not-landlords-that-cause-the-pressure-104166
“That was the worst-case scenario, especially with all the marketing we did,” Zelaya said. “The reopening weekend was a disaster. We had two customers all weekend."
If you can't convince people to drink beer and throw axes after being locked in for 6 weeks, I'm not sure what chance kids parties have.
For sure. Until there’s a vaccine a lot of folks are going to want to save their money for fear of more lockdowns.
lmao true. It’ll take some time but many folks are going to be more worried about saving money than going out until there’s a vaccine.
On the money part. I’m amazed that people are buying houses right now. We have had two sell in our neighborhood in the last month. The wife and I are both still working and I’ve downgraded my whiskey selections to save a few bucks. Maybe I’m just more conservative in that front.
Fearfully, we may be heading toward deflation. IF that happens, then it makes sense to wait on just about anything as it will be cheaper tomorrow than today. Whatever our actions are, deflation needs to be a consideration.
I know I am not being seen as favoring opening, but I do. I just want caution because I fear what happens if we open up a week early more than opening a week late. But I do like the governors steps. I just think we needed a bit more testing before we started. Like maybe he was 10 days too soon. But we'll see, and it is probable he's right and I'm wrong. He certainly has access to better experts.
Yeah no kidding! Most people are idiots. Myself included. They don’t plan for interruptions. They just figure they’ll keep working. Again myself included. A recession etc you have time to read the tea leaves and adjust. This came out of the blue and I think will change how many think. I know I’m done with my $5 Starbucks runs every morning. Booze I can’t give up. It’s cheaper than therapy.
Were you the photographer at Trumps inauguration?
No. I just have a lot of experience in how to mislead and deceive people.
Unfortunately a huge number of highly optional businesses are going to go under over the next 12-24 months through no fault of their own. All the goofy little gift shops that my wife likes to wander through, gyms, nail salons, 1/2 the restaurants & bars, cruise lines,... and unfortunately places that rent party supplies. My wife retired in January and this is obviously not the retirement she envisioned.
I would say; “at least you’re honest”, but you admit that isn’t so.
You're the only one who is saying those things. Why don't you care about Hillz' friend? Why are you so anti-business? You should put more thought and care into your posts.
Why not? When the merely employed folks get laid off, it's the same principle isn't it?
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