Bombs sent to Clinton’s, Obama, CNN
- Thread starter zeke4ahs
- Start date
No, you don't understand the situation yet. The reason you don't understand is because you don't differentiate between violence and incivility. For example, if a right to life group bangs drums and shows gross posters in front of abortion clinics and yells at staff and patients...that is incivility. If they call doctors and nurses who work at these clinics "murderers" and post their personal information along with pictures of them in the cross hairs that more uncivil yet and may verge on incitement. If they murder the doctors and blow up the clinic that is violence.
Right to lifers believe that abortion is literally murder and the abortions taking place in the country are akin to the holocaust. As strong as that language is, as uncivil, it is imperative that society be able to hear their case against us. They must be able to make a moral case that tries to persuade us. They must be able to leverage the political system to try to change the law.
They may also choose civil disobedience. As long as they consent to be governed by the law they are free to violate it.
But we have to distinguish between those who are calling for protests even if they include strong language and civil disobedience versus those who are calling for violence. That is the key distinction you miss. Trump calling Democrats evil or suggesting immigrants are rapists, as incivil as it is, is not calling for violence. Trump praising violence, and violent groups and some of the most violent and murderous leaders active on the world stage is endorsing violence. It is something we have not seen from politicians since the Southern Democrats were defending and encouraging lynching.
I still don't know anything about the suspect, and I'm less inclined than some to draw political conclusions from violence committed by unbalanced people of all stripes. Deeply disturbed people do deeply disturbed things, and laying it off on politics seems like a stupid sport for partisans.
To the extent there's a partisan point worth making here, I think it's amusing that the attempted bombings throw a big wet blanket on the stupid claims Trump supporters are making about violent Democratic mobs rampaging around the country. Politically motivated violence is rare in this country, and to the extent it occurs, it's mostly from right-wing lunatics. Only a small fraction comes from left-wing lunatics. Nevertheless, President Dunning-Kruger has been fulminating about scary Democrats, and his little Dunning-Krugers have been quick to parrot back what he says. No wonder their first thought was that it must be a false flag operation.
(By the way, even in the unlikely event that it turned out to be a false flag operation, the little Dunning-Krugers will still have been stupid to go for it. When you hear pounding hoofs, do you expect horses or zebra?)
To the extent there's a partisan point worth making here, I think it's amusing that the attempted bombings throw a big wet blanket on the stupid claims Trump supporters are making about violent Democratic mobs rampaging around the country. Politically motivated violence is rare in this country, and to the extent it occurs, it's mostly from right-wing lunatics. Only a small fraction comes from left-wing lunatics. Nevertheless, President Dunning-Kruger has been fulminating about scary Democrats, and his little Dunning-Krugers have been quick to parrot back what he says. No wonder their first thought was that it must be a false flag operation.
(By the way, even in the unlikely event that it turned out to be a false flag operation, the little Dunning-Krugers will still have been stupid to go for it. When you hear pounding hoofs, do you expect horses or zebra?)
Madonna.
I thought they didn’t care what stupid celebrities thought...except for the one they saw fit to vote for.
looks like this is the guy...Cesar Sayoc Jr- here's his previous arrest info...
https://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Florida/Broward-County-FL/Cesar-Sayoc.74096359.html
Let’s not forget the part that Fox News, Breitbart, Infowars, and the other crazy outlets that the wingnuts watch. The biggest problem with Fox, as opposed to MSNBC is that the people that watch Fox, that’s their only source of information. The large number of people that watch MSNBC get their news from a variety of outlets. While Trump blames CNN, Fox has had a big part in causing this divide and fearmongering our elderly for two decades.
I'm guessing the "jobs not mobs" chant will NOT make it's appearance at GOP rallies from now on...
That guy had mental issues Also he was killed and there weren't any liberals/people on the left shedding any tears...
Looks like a mafia hit man. Has previous NY connections...Also it looks like he might have a mobility scooter attached to his van- Walmart terrorist...
I think you raise a great point, crazy people do crazy things. Conservatives are used to hating your posts, I wonder if this will draw many positive responses.
This guy is basically a career criminal. MSNBC reporting his criminal records date back to the 90s.
Take one look at this guy's van. It's obvious that Trump's rhetoric and justifications for the use of force sent an unstable person over the proverbial cliff. What was his criminal background in? Sending mail bombs is another league.
Violence and incivility.
incivility and indecency.
Lies and truth.
Self-interest and common good.
Right and wrong.
Rejecting violent and corrosive demagoguery and disagreeing with an opinion.
There's a much longer list of things too many people don't differentiate.
Sure you do. Same way that Trumpspeak stokes hate and fear, so does Fox and it has for years. Of course, it doesn’t send stable people over the edge. It likely can help send unstable people over. It certainly has sent our very stable genius over.
Maybe it suggests they have some journalistic responsibility to strive for balance. Of course, then they would probably lose viewers. I suppose at the end of the day, it's entertainment more than journalism, and your cynicism is on target.
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Don't know who this is, but I agree 100% with his comments.
sorry, don't know how to paste a single thread.
sorry, don't know how to paste a single thread.
Have you watched Shepherd Smith, Chris Wallace, and Brett Baier? Some lesser known regulars play it straight down the middle too.
I think you focus too much on Hannity, Carlson, and Ingraham.
Depends on which edge we're talking about.
The vitriol can send unstable people over the edge.
But a diet of inflammatory misinformation for a generation has pushed a stable group over another edge and resulted in, among other things, the election of DJT.
That’s not what you said. You said Fox’s problem is that viewers don’t watch other outlets. I don’t know if that is true or not, but how is Fox responsible for viewing habits?
The viewers that use other media outlets are going to outlets on the fringe and not towards the center for a different perspective.
Fox has a part in it. MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, etc., Republicans and Democrats. ALL have a part in this. I'm more than willing to cast blame where it belongs, on a lot of people honestly. Me, you, everyone. The political rhetoric is way out of control and both sides bares responsibility.
One more time....
Crazy person shoots at republicans over healthcare....Blame crazy person.
Crazy person sends bombs to democrats over general politics....Blame republicans.
Something above doesn't seem right...
That’s been the theory. I don’t know how one ever controls for that. That’s like saying Jodie Foster played a small part in Reagan being shot. In the case of this guy, it is just as reasonable to say he was pissed at the constant vitriol directed at Trump. I don’t think Trump ever mentioned DiNiro, at least not lately, yet he was a target. Should we tell people not to say “Fvck Trump”? The point is we have no way to really know what sets off a nutjob. Of the 100’s of millions of people in the country, this appears to be a black swan.
I don't disagree, however, people like Nancy Pelosi were more than vocal about NOT being blamed for the acts of that crazy. Now, similar situation. Crazy dude tries to kill liberals and instead of blaming the crazy person like she did when the guy shot Republicans, she wants to blame Trump. Come on man. Honestly, it's reactions like this from the left and the MSM that just confirm what people thought when they elected Trump. The MSM is overly biased and it's not even a question any longer. The more the MSM and left blame Republicans and Trump for this, the more support Trump's gonna get.
I'd take it a step further. Trump has never called for violence against Hillary, Biden, Holder, Booker, or any other of the targets directly. He's not directly telling people to go cause harm to people. His rhetoric is no different than what we've heard from democrats AND to a larger degree the MSM like CNN, NYT, MSNBC and other channels that constantly bash Trump and his supporters.
That's because Bernie Sanders wasn't telling people at his rallies to beat people up and he'd pay their legal bills. Bernie wasn't turning it into a dangerous situation for reporters to even cover his campaign. That's why no one blamed Bernie or Dems.
You STILL don't get that this isn't a bipartisan problem.
You STILL don't get that this isn't a bipartisan problem.
There is no evidence presented that Sayoc is crazy. There is a evidence that he is a criminal and a celebrity at Trump rallies. I would say that Sayoc is a prototype deplorable.
