Bombs sent to Clinton’s, Obama, CNN

[Neves]

100% agree that the narrative needs to start from the top. However, no matter what republican president was in office, CNN, the NYT, MSNBC, etc., would still have people calling them racist or xenophobic or whatever. It's a two way street (I know you acknowledged that). With how liberal the MSM is, they would still be trashing the republican president (not at the level of Trump but still...) and that's not helpful at all. When there is obviously over the top false/fake stories being put out by the MSM, it only makes things worse. I blame the MSM and Trump more than I blame the actual Republican and Democratic politicians, honestly.

I think part of the problem is that we need to learn how to distinguish between the 24 hour cable news drama and real journalists reporting facts.
CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC in Primetime is no longer about reporting facts. It has turned into a circus where each side is pushing their own agenda to rally their base.

IMO, 24 hour cable news has killed journalism. We now have a contingent in this country that will literally ignore fact based reporting because it is not what they want to hear. Trump only ignited the sentiment by proclaiming all MSM as Fake News. IMO,Trump knows this and uses it to his advantage if there are any negative news story about him.

Just for the record, I wasn't happy when Obama called out Fox News for their BS either.... but I think Trump has taken it to the extreme.

 

[SNU0821]

I think part of the problem is that we need to learn how to distinguish between the 24 hour cable news drama and real journalists reporting facts.
CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC in Primetime is no longer about reporting facts. It has turned into a circus where each side is pushing their own agenda to rally their base.

IMO, 24 hour cable news has killed journalism. We now have a contingent in this country that will literally ignore fact based reporting because it is not what they want to hear. Trump only ignited the sentiment by proclaiming all MSM as Fake News. IMO,Trump knows this and uses it to his advantage if there are any negative news story about him.

Just for the record, I wasn't happy when Obama called out Fox News for their BS either.... but I think Trump has taken it to the extreme.

Completely agree here. We're absolutely on the same page.

It'd be great if at the beginning of each show if they basically labeled themselves as actual news reporting or opinion segments where they talk about the news instead of reporting it. I think everyone is completely aware that the MSM has always had a left lean. Trump has exploited that and gone on the offensive which has made things a million times worse. It'd be nice if both would just tone things down.

 

[DrHoops]

Yeah!!!!

Oh, so they're over the top false rhetoric over healthcare wouldn't drive a crazy person over the edge? GTFO. Ok, so by your logic, Trump shouldn't be blamed either since he never called for violence against any of the targets in this event. Glad we can clear that up. Seems we can't blame republicans or democrats according to you.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I still don't know anything about the suspect, and I'm less inclined than some to draw political conclusions from violence committed by unbalanced people of all stripes. Deeply disturbed people do deeply disturbed things, and laying it off on politics seems like a stupid sport for partisans.

To the extent there's a partisan point worth making here, I think it's amusing that the attempted bombings throw a big wet blanket on the stupid claims Trump supporters are making about violent Democratic mobs rampaging around the country. Politically motivated violence is rare in this country, and to the extent it occurs, it's mostly from right-wing lunatics. Only a small fraction comes from left-wing lunatics. Nevertheless, President Dunning-Kruger has been fulminating about scary Democrats, and his little Dunning-Krugers have been quick to parrot back what he says. No wonder their first thought was that it must be a false flag operation.

(By the way, even in the unlikely event that it turned out to be a false flag operation, the little Dunning-Krugers will still have been stupid to go for it. When you hear pounding hoofs, do you expect horses or zebra?)

The only thing we've really learned from this episode so far is that the forum's Trumpists (just like Trumpists everywhere, it seems) are flaming hypocrites. When some douchebag hairdresser kicks a pro-life activist, it's because the left is fomenting violence in this country. When some (presumably) right-wing lunatic mails a dozen pipe bombs, it's suddenly, "Now, hold on a minute, everyone shares blame here."

It would be funny if it weren't sad.

 

[UncleMark]

I listened to an NPR piece once that interviewed a guy who wrote made up right wing conspiracies. Asked why he didn’t write left wing conspiracy theories he responded that they don’t sell.

Bingo. You will recall how Air America went. The "marketplace of ideas" is like VHS vs. Beta -- many times the inferior is the winner.

 

[SNU0821]

The only thing we've really learned from this episode so far is that the forum's Trumpists (just like Trumpists everywhere, it seems) are flaming hypocrites. When some douchebag hairdresser kicks a pro-life activist, it's because the left is fomenting violence in this country. When some (presumably) right-wing lunatic mails a dozen pipe bombs, it's suddenly, "Now, hold on a minute, everyone shares blame here."

It would be funny if it weren't sad.

Or, us who are conservatives who voted for and/or support Trump, we're willing to call it like it is and say that both sides are responsible for the violence that's taking place in society today. I've seen more republicans/conservatives here willingly admit Trump bares some responsibility in this. What I don't see are any liberals following suit. In fact, I see more absolutely denying Democrats or liberals bare ANY responsibility. But then again, libs gonna lib.

So I guess we're on the same page just on opposite ends of the spectrum. That seems helpful...

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Or, us who are conservatives who voted for and/or support Trump, we're willing to call it like it is and say that both sides are responsible for the violence that's taking place in society today. I've seen more republicans/conservatives here willingly admit Trump bares some responsibility in this. What I don't see are any liberals following suit. In fact, I see more absolutely denying Democrats or liberals bare ANY responsibility. But then again, libs gonna lib.

So I guess we're on the same page just on opposite ends of the spectrum. That seems helpful...

No, we're on two different spectrums. Try reading what I actually typed again.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

View embedded media

This isn’t toning down the rhetoric. Crap like this helping anything. Really wish both sides would own their share of the responsibility in what’s happening right now. It’s not one sided. Both sides are at fault, yet the MSM wants people to ONLY blame Republicans or Trump. But then again, the MSM isn’t exactly trustworthy...

You win the “how much #NewGOP BS can I cram into one post” award. The plaque is in the ladies’ room.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I've seen more republicans/conservatives here willingly admit Trump bares some responsibility in this. What I don't see are any liberals following suit.

Fine. As a liberal on this board, I, too, will go on record as admitting that Trump bares some of the responsibility in this.

Happy?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Completely agree here. We're absolutely on the same page.

It'd be great if at the beginning of each show if they basically labeled themselves as actual news reporting or opinion segments where they talk about the news instead of reporting it. I think everyone is completely aware that the MSM has always had a left lean. Trump has exploited that and gone on the offensive which has made things a million times worse. It'd be nice if both would just tone things down.

What do you consider to be real journalism? Not any implementations of it, but what is pure journalism to you?

 

[IUCrazy2]

Depends on which edge we're talking about.

The vitriol can send unstable people over the edge.

But a diet of inflammatory misinformation for a generation has pushed a stable group over another edge and resulted in, among other things, the election of DJT.

Ok, that begs the question then, what set off the people who attacked the Republicans in Minnesota and the guy who shot up a baseball field full of Republican Congressmen?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Ok, that begs the question then, what set off the people who attacked the Republicans in Minnesota and the guy who shot up a baseball field full of Republican Congressmen?

No one is saying that every single event is based on someone stirring up anger. The baseball guy was a BErnie fan. If Sanders has been spouting a bunch of hatred and vitriol against Republicans, you’d have a point. He wasn’t. Haven’t heard about anything in Minnesota.

 

[37Hoosier]

Ok, that begs the question then, what set off the people who attacked the Republicans in Minnesota and the guy who shot up a baseball field full of Republican Congressmen?

Lol, a male exotic dancer living in a van adorned with the moron in chiefs picture and his lackey vp's pics sending bombs .... yup trump loves the uneducated...he should sign up for this site and shepherd his parakeets on here.

 

[SNU0821]

No one is saying that every single event is based on someone stirring up anger. The baseball guy was a BErnie fan. If Sanders has been spouting a bunch of hatred and vitriol against Republicans, you’d have a point. He wasn’t. Haven’t heard about anything in Minnesota.

Wrong. Bernie was spouting off over the top rhetoric about healthcare and how Republicans wanted to take away healthcare which would destroy lives and blah blah blah. It was over the top. It was stirring people up. The guy shot up the Republicans over healthcare. So, it seems as though they did have a point on their post. You just don't want to accept it.

 

[iu_a_att]

Ok, that begs the question then, what set off the people who attacked the Republicans in Minnesota and the guy who shot up a baseball field full of Republican Congressmen?

Could be Trump and the Trumpians set off both sides.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

I disagree on the notion that adults are not easily influenced. If that was the case then we wouldn't have religious cults in this country. Again, I am talking about crazy people who are going to be crazy. They are the ones incapable of filtering through the messages and media biases that we have on both sides.

The President's job to set and control the narrative of the country. Right now the narrative is complete chaos and fear. Fear of the media, immigrants, people of color, political leaders, etc.

Opposed to being scared of people who are wealthy, people who live in middle America, people who are white, people who are religious? You know, the people Obama tried making Americans afraid of.....

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Ok, that begs the question then, what set off the people who attacked the Republicans in Minnesota and the guy who shot up a baseball field full of Republican Congressmen?

I just went back and read that old thread. According to several conservatives here - including you - it was either the left's fault generally, or Bernie's fault, specifically. I couldn't find a single liberal poster pulling the "Hey, wait a minute, both sides are to blame" crap the Trumpists are peddling in this thread.

BTW, in case you didn't see my earlier post, just to be clear, I'm not even saying "Both sides to blame" is wrong. I'm just pointing out that the conservatives on this forum have only come to this conclusion after a bunch of liberals were targeted, just as they suddenly came to the opposite conclusion after a bunch of conservatives were targeted. There's nothing consistent or thoughtful about these responses whatsoever. It's just tribal bullshit.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Lol, a male exotic dancer living in a van adorned with the moron in chiefs picture and his lackey vp's pics sending bombs .... yup trump loves the uneducated...he should sign up for this site and shepherd his parakeets on here.

WTF did that have to do with my question? I am surrendering the point to you, Trump and the right wing media caused this guy to go nuts. So again, if that is the case, what caused the Democrats who punched two candidates in Minnesota and grabbed another one to do what they did? What caused the guy that shot Rep. Scalise to do what he did?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I may have missed it in the thread, but I see the FBI says they are not hoax devices.

 

[IUCrazy2]

The only thing we've really learned from this episode so far is that the forum's Trumpists (just like Trumpists everywhere, it seems) are flaming hypocrites. When some douchebag hairdresser kicks a pro-life activist, it's because the left is fomenting violence in this country. When some (presumably) right-wing lunatic mails a dozen pipe bombs, it's suddenly, "Now, hold on a minute, everyone shares blame here."

It would be funny if it weren't sad.

Ditto. And you were saying at the time..."nuh uh, not us...just some crazy guy and besides, look at all the stuff Trump has said..."

We are all hypocrites. And you know what political violence has a tendency to do that. I read an article the other day that had this quote:

Once political terror is unleashed, it can’t be controlled or compartmentalized.
​

That is the point that I have been trying to make. There have been several places where that case could be made of the left recently, congratulations, you now have yours for the right. So if we can agree that Trump saying to punch people causes nut jobs to send pseudo-bombs in an effort to terrorize people, can we not also say that telling people to harass folks at dinner and stop being civil might just cause people to lash out violently as well? To this point, the feeling I get is that you and the majority of the left leaning folks on this board think that is a no. That is where the disconnect exists.

When I was arguing that the rhetoric needed to die down, I was also arguing that it would be met with a response. And lo and behold, everyone this guy targeted was involved in some of the more inflammatory rhetoric on the left. Do you believe that to be a coincidence? Nothing sent the way of Schumer and Pelosi but all of these has beens get one. The ines who were targeted were the ones saying to stop being civil, get in faces, and kick people. This is a spiral downward and once it starts, it is hard to stop.

​

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

And you were saying at the time..."nuh uh, not us...just some crazy guy and besides, look at all the stuff Trump has said..."

No, I wasn't. You, however, did blame the left specifically, and Bernie by name, for Scalise. I actually went back and read your posts before making that accusation.

You're just claiming what you assume I'd say, instead of bothering to find out what I actually said.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

No, I wasn't. You, however, did blame the left specifically, and Bernie by name, for Scalise. I actually went back and read your posts before making that accusation.

You're just claiming what you assume I'd say, instead of bothering to find out what I actually said.

No one cares what say Billie

 

[zeke4ahs]

Wrong. Bernie was spouting off over the top rhetoric about healthcare and how Republicans wanted to take away healthcare which would destroy lives and blah blah blah. It was over the top. It was stirring people up. The guy shot up the Republicans over healthcare. So, it seems as though they did have a point on their post. You just don't want to accept it.

Healthcare is so violent. But considering the GOP has indeed tried to take away healthcare for millions a grand total of 54 times. So.....

 

[toastedbread]

Ditto. And you were saying at the time..."nuh uh, not us...just some crazy guy and besides, look at all the stuff Trump has said..."

We are all hypocrites. And you know what political violence has a tendency to do that. I read an article the other day that had this quote:

Once political terror is unleashed, it can’t be controlled or compartmentalized.
​

That is the point that I have been trying to make. There have been several places where that case could be made of the left recently, congratulations, you now have yours for the right. So if we can agree that Trump saying to punch people causes not jobs to send pseudo-bombs in an effort to terrorize people, can we not also say that telling people to harass folks at dinner and stop being civil might just cause people to lash out violently as well? To this point, the feeling I get is that you and the majority of the left leaning folks on this board think that is a no. That is where the disconnect exists.

When I was arguing that the rhetoric needed to die down, I was also arguing that it would be met with a response. And lo and behold, everyone this guy targeted was involved in some of the more inflammatory rhetoric on the left. Do you believe that to be a coincidence? Nothing sent the way of Schumer and Pelosi but all of these has been get one. The only thing bind of these has been being that they were the ones saying to stop being civil, get in faces, and kick people. This is a spiral downward and once it starts, it is hard to stop.

​

One makes explicit calls for physical violence. The other makes explicit calls for non-violent harassment. The critical distinction is the violence part. If the Democrats ever encourage supporters to knock protestors out, they would be equivalent.

 

[IUCrazy2]

No, I wasn't. You, however, did blame the left specifically, and Bernie by name, for Scalise. I actually went back and read your posts before making that accusation.

You're just claiming what you assume I'd say, instead of bothering to find out what I actually said.

Cool. Guilty. Too lazy to go back and see what exactly I said so I will take your word for it. Care to address the rest of my post?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Opposed to being scared of people who are wealthy, people who live in middle America, people who are white, people who are religious? You know, the people Obama tried making Americans afraid of.....

What did he do to try to make people afraid? Wealthy people?

 

[IUCrazy2]

One makes explicit calls for physical violence. The other makes explicit calls for non-violent harassment. The critical distinction is the violence part. If the Democrats ever encourage supporters to knock protestors out, they would be equivalent.

Eric Holder said to kick them. Don't know where you are from toasted but kicking is violence where I grew up.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

What did he do to try to make people afraid? Wealthy people?

Please

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Suspect is a 56 year old white male. SHOCKER!

That’s automatic mental illness.

White = mental illness
Black/Brown = gang activity
A-rab = terrorism

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Cool. Guilty. Too lazy to go back and see what exactly I said so I will take your word for it. Care to address the rest of my post?

Okay, my response is this. I'm not saying Trump being an inciteful asshole "causes" violence. I'm just pointing out that most Trump supporters on here were quick to make similar accusations when conservatives were targeted, but have now done a 180 when liberals were targeted. I'm not judging the violent lunatic, or the politicians he's apparently a fanboy of. I'm judging the response to said violent lunatic by normal people who should have the capacity to overcome their tribalism when examining such important topics as this.

Certainly, we can argue about how to apportion blame for political violence. I said after the baseball game shooting that "The left owns this guy to the same extent the right owns Loughner." That is, I was saying that you can't treat two events differently based on which tribe is being attacked. In that line, I'd say the same thing here: "The right owns this guy to the same extent the left owns Hodgkinson."

But that's really only true in a generic sense. We don't know what's really going on in the heads of these violent individuals, and we don't know to what extent they were influenced by any particular politicians. Maybe a guy is just a loaded gun waiting to go off, and the actual trigger is effectively random. Maybe he's a committed partisan, and the role played by hateful rhetoric on his side is enormous. Who knows? It takes a lot of facts that I don't have to make those sorts of judgments, and even then, they'd be subjective judgments, so I generally don't do them.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Right, I've never him to tell his supporters to tone it down or treat people with respect or that "you've went too far on this". When he denounces the KKK or white nationalists after Charlottesville he's reading off a teleprompter like he's a hostage reading a note.

He attacks all these people relentlessly but is friendly and treats people like Putin, MBS in Saudi Arabia, Kim Jong Un, etc. with respect and it's like pulling teeth to get him to say something negative about that group.

Trump is like every republican on this forum. If they get to a point where they just can’t get around criticizing another republican or fellow Trumpster it’s “both sides do it”.

 

[SNU0821]

Healthcare is so violent. But considering the GOP has indeed tried to take away healthcare for millions a grand total of 54 times. So.....

Yup. Just like lock her up. Sooooooo violent.

 

[DrHoops]

So wrong. So dumb.

Opposed to being scared of people who are wealthy, people who live in middle America, people who are white, people who are religious? You know, the people Obama tried making Americans afraid of.....

 

[iu_a_att]

Eric Holder said to kick them. Don't know where you are from toasted but kicking is violence where I grew up.

Just for reference here is the actual quote by Eric Holder. He is clearly not calling for violence...he is calling for toughness..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...cratic-party-is-about/?utm_term=.99e48836bc10

“No, no,” Holder says. “When they go low, we kick 'em. That’s what this new Democratic Party is about."

Several minutes later, Holder clarifies that he’s not advocating anything illicit.

"When I say we, you know, ‘We kick ‘em,’ I don’t mean we do anything inappropriate. We don’t do anything illegal,” Holder said. “But we got to be tough, and we have to fight for the very things that [civil rights leaders] John Lewis, Martin Luther King, Whitney Young – you know, all those folks gave to us.”​

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Just for reference here is the actual quote by Eric Holder. He is clearly not calling for violence...he is calling for toughness..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...cratic-party-is-about/?utm_term=.99e48836bc10

“No, no,” Holder says. “When they go low, we kick 'em. That’s what this new Democratic Party is about."

Several minutes later, Holder clarifies that he’s not advocating anything illicit.

"When I say we, you know, ‘We kick ‘em,’ I don’t mean we do anything inappropriate. We don’t do anything illegal,” Holder said. “But we got to be tough, and we have to fight for the very things that [civil rights leaders] John Lewis, Martin Luther King, Whitney Young – you know, all those folks gave to us.”​

The first part fits on a bumper sticker so that’s all they know or care about

 

[Stuffshot]

100% agree that the narrative needs to start from the top. However, no matter what republican president was in office, CNN, the NYT, MSNBC, etc., would still have people calling them racist or xenophobic or whatever. It's a two way street (I know you acknowledged that). With how liberal the MSM is, they would still be trashing the republican president (not at the level of Trump but still...) and that's not helpful at all. When there is obviously over the top false/fake stories being put out by the MSM, it only makes things worse. I blame the MSM and Trump more than I blame the actual Republican and Democratic politicians, honestly.

Fox News is every bit as much of the mainstream as the others you mentioned. Fox is absolutely not out of the mainstream. Fox News engages in namecalling and publishing intentionally false and misleading "news stories" and did also engage in "trashing" the last Democrat President, often with material that was at minimum (and sometimes blatantly) "racist, xenophobic or whatever" as you put it.

The only difference is that Fox is a mirror image if the media you dislike, but it does the same things you claim to criticize.

 

[twenty02]

Eric Holder said to kick them. Don't know where you are from toasted but kicking is violence where I grew up.

LOL...are you fkn serious?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Eric Holder said to kick them. Don't know where you are from toasted but kicking is violence where I grew up.

And he immediately apologized.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Please

So in other words, you got nothing.

 

[SNU0821]

Fox News is every bit as much of the mainstream as the others you mentioned. Fox is absolutely not out of the mainstream. Fox News engages in namecalling and publishing intentionally false and misleading "news stories" and did also engage in "trashing" the last Democrat President, often with material that was at minimum (and sometimes blatantly) "racist, xenophobic or whatever" as you put it.

The only difference is that Fox is a mirror image if the media you dislike, but it does the same things you claim to criticize.

I agree Fox is part of the problem, too. Not disagreeing.