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Bombs sent to Clinton’s, Obama, CNN

Some days I wish I lived in a state where we registered to vote by political party.

Where I could go and physically change my affiliation from (R) to (I). Then take one of the damn RNC letters I still get asking for money...mail them back my new registration and tell them to go fk themselves.

Today is one of those days.
 
Opposed to being scared of people who are wealthy, people who live in middle America, people who are white, people who are religious? You know, the people Obama tried making Americans afraid of.....

I guess I missed that part on Obama's twitter feed.
 
Or, us who are conservatives who voted for and/or support Trump, we're willing to call it like it is and say that both sides are responsible for the violence that's taking place in society today. I've seen more republicans/conservatives here willingly admit Trump bares some responsibility in this. What I don't see are any liberals following suit. In fact, I see more absolutely denying Democrats or liberals bare ANY responsibility. But then again, libs gonna lib.

So I guess we're on the same page just on opposite ends of the spectrum. That seems helpful...

Guessing this thead will now fade into obscurity. You seem to have missed it- maybe because it wasn't on the first page... https://indiana.forums.rivals.com/threads/democrat-hate-and-violence-must-stop.173508/
 
Trump was asked if he will tone down the rhetoric, he responded with he needs to "tone up" because the media had been unfair to him.

Also being reported the MAGAbomber is a registered Republican, ex stripper, bankrupt and not affiliated with the Seminole tribe. He also follows all the conspiracies that Alex Jones constantly peddles. These people are too stupid to understand Jones is not a truth teller but a tabloid radio jockey that wants your money with his violent rhetoric on Jews, Democrats, and all national tragedies that somehow turn into deep state conspiracies.

This is the world we live in where the gullible and mentally ill get to fuel their hate and violence against a group of people(s) with sites like infowars. Its disgusting that they have been able to blur entertainment with bringing violence to government and politicians. It's truly dangerous.
 
Here’s another gem from Trump today;
Republicans are doing so well in early voting and at the polls, and now this “Bomb” stuff happens and the momentum greatly slows- need not talking politics. Very unfortunate, what is going on. Republicans, go out and vote.
Once again, no concern about anyone except himself. No mention of any of the victims, at any point. Bombs in quotes and refused to call them bombs in speech.
He’s a piece of work.
 
Also at his rally tonight, he just stood there and watched while the crowd was chanting “CNN sucks!”. At a press conference about the capture of the bomber someone asked Trump about Soros and a Trumpster yelled “Lock him up!” Trump pointed to the guy with a look of approval and said “Lock him up”.

Unbelievable. The man is seriously demented.
 
Also at his rally tonight, he just stood there and watched while the crowd was chanting “CNN sucks!”. At a press conference about the capture of the bomber someone asked Trump about Soros and a Trumpster yelled “Lock him up!” Trump pointed to the guy with a look of approval and said “Lock him up”.

Unbelievable. The man is seriously demented.
I’m afraid as a country we are losing our capacity to understand, to reason and most importantly to empathize with our fellow citizens. It would be fair to argue that the history of this nation has been built upon anything but empathy. African Americans, Native Americans, Chinese Americans, Women of all colors, the list goes on, have justifiable reasons to look at our national politics with nothing less than contempt.

However, as Anglo white males, what the hell do we have to feel victimized by? In the interest of full disclosure, I say this as a late middle aged white male. How can we as white males in the United States of America somehow land on the position that we are somehow victims in a country we have so singularly shaped?

My challenge to all those who happen to find themselves with great position power is to do something we have as a society lost since the advent of the internet...listen. Especially all you old white guys like me from Indiana. Listen, to ladies like Zeke. Before you dismiss her positions on sexual harassment and assault, listen for the sake of expanding your own mind and those you influence, listen to the stories and try to empathize.

Listen to people like Twenty and TMP when they call you on your bs. Right now our country lacks singular, reasonable voices, when they present themselves...listen. When CoH and Aloha explain why they can despise Trump as a person but also support him as POTUS, listen. Listen to those in your community who are dealing with the disastrous effects of opioid addiction. Listen to them, hear them and try to empathize.

In closing I will say that it’s never been my expectation that we will reach some cosmic consensus. In fact I strongly believe that it’s the melting pot this country provides which is our greatest hope for the future. That starts with a genuine acknowledgement of our individual stories. If ever there was a week, a month, a year to reflect on who we are and where we want to go, take that time now.
 
I’m afraid as a country we are losing our capacity to understand, to reason and most importantly to empathize with our fellow citizens. It would be fair to argue that the history of this nation has been built upon anything but empathy. African Americans, Native Americans, Chinese Americans, Women of all colors, the list goes on, have justifiable reasons to look at our national politics with nothing less than contempt.

However, as Anglo white males, what the hell do we have to feel victimized by? In the interest of full disclosure, I say this as a late middle aged white male. How can we as white males in the United States of America somehow land on the position that we are somehow victims in a country we have so singularly shaped?

My challenge to all those who happen to find themselves with great position power is to do something we have as a society lost since the advent of the internet...listen. Especially all you old white guys like me from Indiana. Listen, to ladies like Zeke. Before you dismiss her positions on sexual harassment and assault, listen for the sake of expanding your own mind and those you influence, listen to the stories and try to empathize.

Listen to people like Twenty and TMP when they call you on your bs. Right now our country lacks singular, reasonable voices, when they present themselves...listen. When CoH and Aloha explain why they can despise Trump as a person but also support him as POTUS, listen. Listen to those in your community who are dealing with the disastrous effects of opioid addiction. Listen to them, hear them and try to empathize.

In closing I will say that it’s never been my expectation that we will reach some cosmic consensus. In fact I strongly believe that it’s the melting pot this country provides which is our greatest hope for the future. That starts with a genuine acknowledgement of our individual stories. If ever there was a week, a month, a year to reflect on who we are and where we want to go, take that time now.
That's pretty good, but one small quibble. I've actually never said I "support Trump as President" or words to that effect. I in fact don't want him to be President and want him to be replaced in 2020 - preferably by a traditional Republican, but I could live with some moderate Democrat too. I didn't vote for him in 2016 and I won't vote for him in 2020. I've said that I have supported some things that he's done as President, just as I've supported some things previous Presidents have done, Republican and Democrat. I think everyone should do that, but that's an individual choice and one that our more hyper-partisan posters here won't do, on both sides - and by the way, I don't believe some of those that claim they're voting straight ticket one way or the other for the FIRST time because NOTHING in their posting history indicates that they'd ever vote for a person from the other party. But I digress. ;) I personally despise Trump for many reasons, but one big reason is I think he's doing long-term damage to one of the two parties and accelerating the leftward trend of the other. We need our two major parties to be healthy and less extreme to effectively govern this country. His rise to the top of my party has also encouraged more like him to run for office and I'm very unhappy with that. His rise has caused my wife, a Republican years before I was a Republican, from a strong Republican family, to vow to vote against all Republicans for as long as he's President. I'm not going quite that far because I really like our Congressional Representative who's been great for this district and who is not Trump-like, but in races where it isn't so clear cut I'm very likely to join her in voting for the Democrat - my absentee ballot is sitting here on my desk right now. The Republican party needs some significant defeats, especially of those that are running "full Trump," to have a chance of purging Trumpism from the party. I'm actually hoping that the House turns Democratic for the first time since I switched parties. I'm not switching back to Democrat because the party is far more left leaning than when I was a Democrat (and the Republican party is too far right), but I'm not a Trumpster, and I don't identify with much of what Trump has done with the Republican party. If Trumpism isn't purged I'll just be an independent until I feel I identify more with one party or the other. That may never happen.
 
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That's pretty good, but one small quibble. I've actually never said I "support Trump as President" or words to that effect. I in fact don't want him to be President and want him to be replaced in 2020 - preferably by a traditional Republican, but I could live with some moderate Democrat too. I didn't vote for him in 2016 and I won't vote for him in 2020. I've said that I have supported some things that he's done as President, just as I've supported some things previous Presidents have done, Republican and Democrat. I think everyone should do that, but that's an individual choice and one that our more hyper-partisan posters here won't do, on both sides - and by the way, I don't believe some of those that claim they're voting straight ticket one way or the other for the FIRST time because NOTHING in their posting history indicates that they'd ever vote for a person from the other party. But I digress. ;) I personally despise Trump for many reasons, but one big reason is I think he's doing long-term damage to one of the two parties and accelerating the leftward trend of the other. We need our two major parties to be healthy and less extreme to effectively govern this country. His rise to the top of my party has also encouraged more like him to run for office and I'm very unhappy with that. His rise has caused my wife, a Republican years before I was a Republican, from a strong Republican family, to vow to vote against all Republicans for as long as he's President. I'm not going quite that far because I really like our Congressional Representative who's been great for this district and who is not Trump-like, but in races where it isn't so clear cut I'm very likely to join her in voting for the Democrat - my absentee ballot is sitting here on my desk right now. The Republican party needs some significant defeats, especially of those that are running "full Trump," to have a chance of purging Trumpism from the party. I'm actually hoping that the House turns Democratic for the first time since I switched parties. I'm not switching back to Democrat because the party is far more left leaning than when I was a Democrat (and the Republican party is too far right), but I'm not a Trumpster, and I don't identify with much of what Trump has done with the Republican party. If Trumpism isn't purged I'll just be an independent until I feel I identify more with one party or the other. That may never happen.

Some interesting comments there.

I am not aware of many GOP candidates who behave like Trump. Maybe there are, I just don't know. I am aware of many who "support" Trump--"support" meaning agreeing with such things as tax reform, regulatory reform, and immigration reform. I did cast my vote for the Democratic senate candidate in 2016 because the GOP candidate promised to be just like Ted Cruz and Cruz campaigned for him. Cruz was the only candidate in the GOP field that would have caused me to vote for Clinton. However, I see Democrats, Spartacus and Harris in particular, trying to imitate Trump. They can't pull it off and I think that behavior is terribly destructive. Susan Collins, Romney, and many others are who I think of when I think of Republicans.

As I've said, I just don't see Trump as doing permanent damage. His shelf life is limited. His influence on behavior will disappear the moment he is out of office. That said, I think campaigns and positions are becoming more strident and that will sadly endure. That began before Trump was on the scene. In fact I see Trump as more lenient in his positions than many in the GOP. We can thank the Freedom Caucus for the failure of the Trump-initiated immigration reforms.
 
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Some interesting comments there.

I am not aware of many GOP candidates who behave like Trump. Maybe there are, I just don't know. I am aware of many who "support" Trump--"support" meaning agreeing with such things as tax reform, regulatory reform, and immigration reform. I did cast my vote for the Democratic senate candidate in 2016 because the GOP candidate promised to be just like Ted Cruz and Cruz campaigned for him. Cruz was the only candidate in the GOP field that would have caused me to vote for Clinton. However, I see Democrats, Spartacus and Harris in particular, trying to imitate Trump. They can't pull it off and I think that behavior is terribly destructive. Susan Collins, Romney, and many others are who I think of when I think of Republicans.

As I've said, I just don't see Trump as doing permanent damage. His shelf life is limited. His influence on behavior will disappear the moment he is out of office. That said, I think campaigns and positions are becoming more strident and that will sadly endure. That began before Trump was on the scene. In fact I see Trump as more lenient in his positions than many in the GOP. We can thank the Freedom Caucus for the failure of the Trump-initiated immigration reforms.
Candidates that I consider Trump-like are those that support his more stupid and/or false assertions, or policies. I’m for border security, but “the wall” is stupid. With today’s technology we don’t need a physical wall along most of the border and it would be a waste of time and money. I’m against illegal immigration and all for legal immigration because we need it, but Trump’s rhetoric about all immigration is stupid and unhelpful. His trade war with China is stupid. NATO countries are our allies and should be treated like allies and not adversaries. Treating them that way is stupid. I supported reducing corporate tax rates and I’m glad it was done, but we didn’t need to reduce taxes yet again on our highest income earners. We need to get our fiscal house in order and Trump doesn’t appear to have any interest in that. That is stupid and not Republican. In good with some of the deregulation. I mostly can’t stand Trump’s constant disrespectful and dishonest behavior. I gladly defended GWB from dishonest attacks on his own honesty and actions, but I cannot defend Trump.

I agree with you on Booker, Harris, Romney and the Freedom Caucus.
 
He goes with his bread and butter to rile up his base before elections.
Actually, he doesn't really care about his bread and butter either. All he cares about is ME ME ME ME.

Think about it -- what does a spoiled rich boy real estate developer from NYC really have in common with the people who go to his rallies from rural states like NC, IA, WV, WI etc.? Those poor people think he cares about them. Remember: he threatened to veto the tax bill a few hours before he signed it.

Trump is just a perpetual Halloween costume.
 
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I’m afraid as a country we are losing our capacity to understand, to reason and most importantly to empathize with our fellow citizens. It would be fair to argue that the history of this nation has been built upon anything but empathy. African Americans, Native Americans, Chinese Americans, Women of all colors, the list goes on, have justifiable reasons to look at our national politics with nothing less than contempt.

However, as Anglo white males, what the hell do we have to feel victimized by? In the interest of full disclosure, I say this as a late middle aged white male. How can we as white males in the United States of America somehow land on the position that we are somehow victims in a country we have so singularly shaped?

My challenge to all those who happen to find themselves with great position power is to do something we have as a society lost since the advent of the internet...listen. Especially all you old white guys like me from Indiana. Listen, to ladies like Zeke. Before you dismiss her positions on sexual harassment and assault, listen for the sake of expanding your own mind and those you influence, listen to the stories and try to empathize.

Listen to people like Twenty and TMP when they call you on your bs. Right now our country lacks singular, reasonable voices, when they present themselves...listen. When CoH and Aloha explain why they can despise Trump as a person but also support him as POTUS, listen. Listen to those in your community who are dealing with the disastrous effects of opioid addiction. Listen to them, hear them and try to empathize.

In closing I will say that it’s never been my expectation that we will reach some cosmic consensus. In fact I strongly believe that it’s the melting pot this country provides which is our greatest hope for the future. That starts with a genuine acknowledgement of our individual stories. If ever there was a week, a month, a year to reflect on who we are and where we want to go, take that time now.
That's pretty good, but one small quibble. I've actually never said I "support Trump as President" or words to that effect. I in fact don't want him to be President and want him to be replaced in 2020 - preferably by a traditional Republican, but I could live with some moderate Democrat too. I didn't vote for him in 2016 and I won't vote for him in 2020. I've said that I have supported some things that he's done as President, just as I've supported some things previous Presidents have done, Republican and Democrat. I think everyone should do that, but that's an individual choice and one that our more hyper-partisan posters here won't do, on both sides - and by the way, I don't believe some of those that claim they're voting straight ticket one way or the other for the FIRST time because NOTHING in their posting history indicates that they'd ever vote for a person from the other party. But I digress. ;) I personally despise Trump for many reasons, but one big reason is I think he's doing long-term damage to one of the two parties and accelerating the leftward trend of the other. We need our two major parties to be healthy and less extreme to effectively govern this country. His rise to the top of my party has also encouraged more like him to run for office and I'm very unhappy with that. His rise has caused my wife, a Republican years before I was a Republican, from a strong Republican family, to vow to vote against all Republicans for as long as he's President. I'm not going quite that far because I really like our Congressional Representative who's been great for this district and who is not Trump-like, but in races where it isn't so clear cut I'm very likely to join her in voting for the Democrat - my absentee ballot is sitting here on my desk right now. The Republican party needs some significant defeats, especially of those that are running "full Trump," to have a chance of purging Trumpism from the party. I'm actually hoping that the House turns Democratic for the first time since I switched parties. I'm not switching back to Democrat because the party is far more left leaning than when I was a Democrat (and the Republican party is too far right), but I'm not a Trumpster, and I don't identify with much of what Trump has done with the Republican party. If Trumpism isn't purged I'll just be an independent until I feel I identify more with one party or the other. That may never happen.
Aloha, thanks for the clarification on your position and my apologies for mis-representing it. After today’s events I spent quite a bit of time reflecting on my last sentence of my post last night. Thanks again for the thoughtful response as I do think sincere conversations on these topics is the only way to lift our country out of the mire we have found ourselves in.
 
That's pretty good, but one small quibble. I've actually never said I "support Trump as President" or words to that effect. I in fact don't want him to be President and want him to be replaced in 2020 - preferably by a traditional Republican, but I could live with some moderate Democrat too. I didn't vote for him in 2016 and I won't vote for him in 2020. I've said that I have supported some things that he's done as President, just as I've supported some things previous Presidents have done, Republican and Democrat. I think everyone should do that, but that's an individual choice and one that our more hyper-partisan posters here won't do, on both sides - and by the way, I don't believe some of those that claim they're voting straight ticket one way or the other for the FIRST time because NOTHING in their posting history indicates that they'd ever vote for a person from the other party. But I digress. ;) I personally despise Trump for many reasons, but one big reason is I think he's doing long-term damage to one of the two parties and accelerating the leftward trend of the other. We need our two major parties to be healthy and less extreme to effectively govern this country. His rise to the top of my party has also encouraged more like him to run for office and I'm very unhappy with that. His rise has caused my wife, a Republican years before I was a Republican, from a strong Republican family, to vow to vote against all Republicans for as long as he's President. I'm not going quite that far because I really like our Congressional Representative who's been great for this district and who is not Trump-like, but in races where it isn't so clear cut I'm very likely to join her in voting for the Democrat - my absentee ballot is sitting here on my desk right now. The Republican party needs some significant defeats, especially of those that are running "full Trump," to have a chance of purging Trumpism from the party. I'm actually hoping that the House turns Democratic for the first time since I switched parties. I'm not switching back to Democrat because the party is far more left leaning than when I was a Democrat (and the Republican party is too far right), but I'm not a Trumpster, and I don't identify with much of what Trump has done with the Republican party. If Trumpism isn't purged I'll just be an independent until I feel I identify more with one party or the other. That may never happen.

Some interesting comments there.

I am not aware of many GOP candidates who behave like Trump. Maybe there are, I just don't know. I am aware of many who "support" Trump--"support" meaning agreeing with such things as tax reform, regulatory reform, and immigration reform. I did cast my vote for the Democratic senate candidate in 2016 because the GOP candidate promised to be just like Ted Cruz and Cruz campaigned for him. Cruz was the only candidate in the GOP field that would have caused me to vote for Clinton. However, I see Democrats, Spartacus and Harris in particular, trying to imitate Trump. They can't pull it off and I think that behavior is terribly destructive. Susan Collins, Romney, and many others are who I think of when I think of Republicans.

As I've said, I just don't see Trump as doing permanent damage. His shelf life is limited. His influence on behavior will disappear the moment he is out of office. That said, I think campaigns and positions are becoming more strident and that will sadly endure. That began before Trump was on the scene. In fact I see Trump as more lenient in his positions than many in the GOP. We can thank the Freedom Caucus for the failure of the Trump-initiated immigration reforms.
CoH, I reside in North Carolina now and be assured Trumpism is most certainly influencing candidates at the local level at least here in N.C. One could legitimately make the argument that we were fertile ground for that type of behavior pre-Trump see above comments re Freedom Party. I’m not giving Trumpism credit for starting that fire but Trumpism certainly poured fire on it. To be fair, we will hopefully not see anyone with his most obvious character flaws at a local level but the invective is alive and well.
To your second point, Democrats like Booker, Harris Warren and others need to understand that you will never win a battle with him when you fight it on his ground. I’m quite convinced that if Dems take that approach in 2020 Trump will win again, possibly by a larger margin. There is no magic elixir to this disease, the first step is acknowledging the disease and finding those singular voices on both sides who are willing to discuss it in a reasonable way. Thanks for taking the time today to do that.
 
Aloha, thanks for the clarification on your position and my apologies for mis-representing it. After today’s events I spent quite a bit of time reflecting on my last sentence of my post last night. Thanks again for the thoughtful response as I do think sincere conversations on these topics is the only way to lift our country out of the mire we have found ourselves in.

Nice exchange. The problem is that both of you are rational and reasonable. A very large percentage of our population has gone completely off the rails. They cannot be rationalized with at this moment.The question is how can those folks be brought back into the fold of normalcy?
 
Nice exchange. The problem is that both of you are rational and reasonable. A very large percentage of our population has gone completely off the rails. They cannot be rationalized with at this moment.The question is how can those folks be brought back into the fold of normalcy?
BigAppleHoosier has skillz. But s/he's currently posting at 30,000 feet. I'm looking forward to the posts at ground level. :)
 
Aloha, thanks for the clarification on your position and my apologies for mis-representing it. After today’s events I spent quite a bit of time reflecting on my last sentence of my post last night. Thanks again for the thoughtful response as I do think sincere conversations on these topics is the only way to lift our country out of the mire we have found ourselves in.

Nice exchange. The problem is that both of you are rational and reasonable. A very large percentage of our population has gone completely off the rails. They cannot be rationalized with at this moment.The question is how can those folks be brought back into the fold of normalcy?
I wish I knew. To be 100% honest part of the reason for my posting here was to float ideas for a completely selfish reason. I come from a family with deep Republican roots. I have found myself on the outside looking in since 2016 with many family members (father, brother, aunts and uncles). I don’t find my positions on topics such as our national debate as inflexible, however I refuse to accept the current tone and direction of that debate. Sometimes we all need to find common ground where we can, if that’s on the cooler I’ll take it, because it’s a start. If I can have a reasonable conversation with Aloha or CoH because they frame their arguments in a coherent way it gives me hope that I can better understand the positions my family members are taking.
For me personally, empathy is they key. If I can understand your position and how you got there we have a place to start. Doesn’t mean I’ll agree with you or you will agree with me but it’s a reasonable place to start a discussion. My commitment to the other party is to listen and to try to genuinely understand. I have the same expectation of others and from my personal experience that is where things have gone off the rails. Hence, my post last night to encourage people to listen, especially those with position power.
Disclaimer, I don’t care what your position is if you are engaging in violence. There is no grievance regardless of political affiliation that justifies some of the crazy chit we’ve seen the last 18mos.
 
CoH, I reside in North Carolina now and be assured Trumpism is most certainly influencing candidates at the local level at least here in N.C. One could legitimately make the argument that we were fertile ground for that type of behavior pre-Trump see above comments re Freedom Party. I’m not giving Trumpism credit for starting that fire but Trumpism certainly poured fire on it. To be fair, we will hopefully not see anyone with his most obvious character flaws at a local level but the invective is alive and well.
To your second point, Democrats like Booker, Harris Warren and others need to understand that you will never win a battle with him when you fight it on his ground. I’m quite convinced that if Dems take that approach in 2020 Trump will win again, possibly by a larger margin. There is no magic elixir to this disease, the first step is acknowledging the disease and finding those singular voices on both sides who are willing to discuss it in a reasonable way. Thanks for taking the time today to do that.
I agree. I think someone from the middle of the country like Amy Klobuchar, who wins in both rural and urban areas, could be someone to look at.

I'd personally love a campaign that ignores POTUS as much as possible. Make him seem smaller. Take the focus to where it matters, the people of the country.
 
I wish I knew. To be 100% honest part of the reason for my posting here was to float ideas for a completely selfish reason. I come from a family with deep Republican roots. I have found myself on the outside looking in since 2016 with many family members (father, brother, aunts and uncles). I don’t find my positions on topics such as our national debate as inflexible, however I refuse to accept the current tone and direction of that debate. Sometimes we all need to find common ground where we can, if that’s on the cooler I’ll take it, because it’s a start. If I can have a reasonable conversation with Aloha or CoH because they frame their arguments in a coherent way it gives me hope that I can better understand the positions my family members are taking.
For me personally, empathy is they key. If I can understand your position and how you got there we have a place to start. Doesn’t mean I’ll agree with you or you will agree with me but it’s a reasonable place to start a discussion. My commitment to the other party is to listen and to try to genuinely understand. I have the same expectation of others and from my personal experience that is where things have gone off the rails. Hence, my post last night to encourage people to listen, especially those with position power.
Disclaimer, I don’t care what your position is if you are engaging in violence. There is no grievance regardless of political affiliation that justifies some of the crazy chit we’ve seen the last 18mos.
I couldn't agree more with you on the empathy front and on the importance of good listening. Good listening and empathy are the sine quo non of creating relatedness between people.

Good listening starts by being sure that you are hearing exactly what people are saying. The test of good listening is being able to rephrase what someone is telling you in a way that they agree accurately represents their position. Ideally, they would say that your rephrasing does a better job of making their point than they were doing themselves.

I run into a problem though. As I listen empathically I occasionally find that I am listening to someone with the values of Al Capone and the self-awareness of Archie Bunker. Imagine listening to someone who beats up his wife and says that the reason he beats her up is because she pisses him off by not having his dinner made just the way he likes it.

So, I can certainly practice good listening i.e., "I hear you saying that you beat up your wife because she doesn't make you dinner just the way you like. I think you are saying that she had it coming and needs to be taught a harsh lesson." The person replies, "yeah, that is exactly right! You put it better than I did!!!"

If we stopped right there the person I am listening to might think he had a good relationship with me...he would feel that he was being understood. But the reason for that good feeling is that everybody, even Al Capone and Archie Bunker, think that understanding implies agreement.

The trouble comes when the person asks me what I think. Were I to tell them what I really think i.e., they should go to the police, confess the beatings to the authorities and serve time for assault...their good feeling would quickly disappear. Even Al Capone and Archie Bunker will think I am being smug, righteous and judgemental. Who the hell am I to judge them?

Empathy and good listening always improves relatedness between people. But it doesn't guarantee that the ensuing relationship will be good.
 
CoH, I reside in North Carolina now and be assured Trumpism is most certainly influencing candidates at the local level at least here in N.C. One could legitimately make the argument that we were fertile ground for that type of behavior pre-Trump see above comments re Freedom Party. I’m not giving Trumpism credit for starting that fire but Trumpism certainly poured fire on it. To be fair, we will hopefully not see anyone with his most obvious character flaws at a local level but the invective is alive and well.
To your second point, Democrats like Booker, Harris Warren and others need to understand that you will never win a battle with him when you fight it on his ground. I’m quite convinced that if Dems take that approach in 2020 Trump will win again, possibly by a larger margin. There is no magic elixir to this disease, the first step is acknowledging the disease and finding those singular voices on both sides who are willing to discuss it in a reasonable way. Thanks for taking the time today to do that.

I see the word "Trumpism" used often. What does that mean to you? Is it a constellation of behavior and style? Is it policy initiatives? Are those to inseparable? I disagree with the former but not all of it. I agree with the latter but not all of it. I try not to allow my view of one to influence my view of the other. I think most people don't draw such a distinction. Thus we get 90%+ negative coverage of Trump caused mostly by not reporting good news from his administration and overstating the criticism.

I think you are correct in using the word "disease". I think the disease process has existed for most of the 21st century. There are a number of reasons for that. Most of them have nothing to do with Trump. I've noticed only two people in the last months who spoke about the disease in terms that need to be said. Both are women and both are Republicans, Susan Collins and Nikki Haley. Collins' remarks were immediately turned into the disease as the Conservatives gushed and the liberals called her a traitor. In any event, her remarks were immediately met with bullying messages containing hate and threats. Haley was largely ignored.

I think we have the disease because the public WANTS this disease. The public urges hundreds of candidates for office at all levels of government be aggressive and combative. (This came through loud and clear in 2012 when nice guy Romney was usually the second place primary finisher to a more combative first place finisher.). Candidates always promise to FIGHT for their causes. A candidate who promises to listen and compromise for a cause won't get any votes. Trash talking, bullying, and now even mail bombs are perversely satisfying to large segments of people.
 
I couldn't agree more with you on the empathy front and on the importance of good listening. Good listening and empathy are the sine quo non of creating relatedness between people.

Good listening starts by being sure that you are hearing exactly what people are saying. The test of good listening is being able to rephrase what someone is telling you in a way that they agree accurately represents their position. Ideally, they would say that your rephrasing does a better job of making their point than they were doing themselves.

I run into a problem though. As I listen empathically I occasionally find that I am listening to someone with the values of Al Capone and the self-awareness of Archie Bunker. Imagine listening to someone who beats up his wife and says that the reason he beats her up is because she pisses him off by not having his dinner made just the way he likes it.

So, I can certainly practice good listening i.e., "I hear you saying that you beat up your wife because she doesn't make you dinner just the way you like. I think you are saying that she had it coming and needs to be taught a harsh lesson." The person replies, "yeah, that is exactly right! You put it better than I did!!!"

If we stopped right there the person I am listening to might think he had a good relationship with me...he would feel that he was being understood. But the reason for that good feeling is that everybody, even Al Capone and Archie Bunker, think that understanding implies agreement.

The trouble comes when the person asks me what I think. Were I to tell them what I really think i.e., they should go to the police, confess the beatings to the authorities and serve time for assault...their good feeling would quickly disappear. Even Al Capone and Archie Bunker will think I am being smug, righteous and judgemental. Who the hell am I to judge them?

Empathy and good listening always improves relatedness between people. But it doesn't guarantee that the ensuing relationship will be good.

100% agree. At this point, we need to be transactional with them and appeal to their pathos. I.e. when I meet with the folks you describe, I will be speaking along the lines of "how would you feel if this was your wife/child". I've had success with this on a small scale, where you will reach an agreement on a single issue. To translate that to a larger scale is not possible. Then you still get folks, who will say something like, "well it's just a question of hard work"(as if everything is always about working hard enough). Those are the ones where I admit defeat as they are truly lost causes.
 
Also at his rally tonight, he just stood there and watched while the crowd was chanting “CNN sucks!”. At a press conference about the capture of the bomber someone asked Trump about Soros and a Trumpster yelled “Lock him up!” Trump pointed to the guy with a look of approval and said “Lock him up”.

Unbelievable. The man is seriously demented.


Well one of his more infamous fans won't be able to attend any more rallies for awhile. I wonder how many more would be bombers were in this crowd...

 
What a gruesome bunch of people.


They found a new package (addressed to CNN) in Atlanta this morning. Also, the FBI has determined that sayoc looked up internet info (addresses, details etc) on over 100 people. Moore mentioned in his post (on FB) that he had been notified the list included him...
 
It's pretty scary. Who knows if one of them will actually go off and kill someone?

They found a new package (addressed to CNN) in Atlanta this morning. Also, the FBI has determined that sayoc looked up internet info (addresses, details etc) on over 100 people. Moore mentioned in his post (on FB) that he had been notified the list included him...
 
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Some interesting comments there.

I am not aware of many GOP candidates who behave like Trump. Maybe there are, I just don't know. I am aware of many who "support" Trump--"support" meaning agreeing with such things as tax reform, regulatory reform, and immigration reform. I did cast my vote for the Democratic senate candidate in 2016 because the GOP candidate promised to be just like Ted Cruz and Cruz campaigned for him. Cruz was the only candidate in the GOP field that would have caused me to vote for Clinton. However, I see Democrats, Spartacus and Harris in particular, trying to imitate Trump. They can't pull it off and I think that behavior is terribly destructive. Susan Collins, Romney, and many others are who I think of when I think of Republicans.

As I've said, I just don't see Trump as doing permanent damage. His shelf life is limited. His influence on behavior will disappear the moment he is out of office. That said, I think campaigns and positions are becoming more strident and that will sadly endure. That began before Trump was on the scene. In fact I see Trump as more lenient in his positions than many in the GOP. We can thank the Freedom Caucus for the failure of the Trump-initiated immigration reforms.
You’re being disingenuous when you limit your “I see GOP pols supporting Trump when it comes to immigration reform, et al”. If you can’t see the sycophancy going on, especially in new campaigns for the midterms, and the lack of anybody standing up to his dangerous rhetoric then you’re really not paying attention.
 
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It's pretty scary. Who knows if one of them will actually go off and kill someone?
Calling this guy "a bomber" is probably to generous as his bombs don't seem to function. He has been a failure all of his life and has proven it in front of the entire nation and probably even to his hero.
 
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I wish I knew. To be 100% honest part of the reason for my posting here was to float ideas for a completely selfish reason. I come from a family with deep Republican roots. I have found myself on the outside looking in since 2016 with many family members (father, brother, aunts and uncles). I don’t find my positions on topics such as our national debate as inflexible, however I refuse to accept the current tone and direction of that debate. Sometimes we all need to find common ground where we can, if that’s on the cooler I’ll take it, because it’s a start.
Cmon in, the water is fine.
 
Calling this guy "a bomber" is probably to generous as his bombs don't seem to function. He has been a failure all of his life and has proven it in front of the entire nation and probably even to his hero.

Whether or not the bombs functioned isn’t the issue. What we need to remember is none of these people get their own mail.
 
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I wish I knew. To be 100% honest part of the reason for my posting here was to float ideas for a completely selfish reason. I come from a family with deep Republican roots. I have found myself on the outside looking in since 2016 with many family members (father, brother, aunts and uncles). I don’t find my positions on topics such as our national debate as inflexible, however I refuse to accept the current tone and direction of that debate. Sometimes we all need to find common ground where we can, if that’s on the cooler I’ll take it, because it’s a start.
Cmon in, the water is fine.
Thanks for the invitation, as you can tell from my post count I’m more of a lurker. I’m hopeful that I’ll have more time as my professional life and personal commitments start to ease up. Following up to CoH and his comments above, I do sincerely believe there is a disease at work, especially in our national dialogue right now. It started long before Trump so I personally don’t blame him for that. What I do find disturbing is Trump’s penchant for lying and buying into conspiracy theories.
In my opinion, we are wondering into unknown territory when our president is intentionally blurring the line between fact and fiction. There is a real danger right now in the parroting of these lies, less than ample access to quality mental healthcare and a country that is awash in folks who are self medicating at unprecedented levels with their drug of choice.
He has the power to see intelligence on literally any topic, by arguably the worlds most respected specialists. Instead we receive a steady stream of nonsense from his twitter account. I spent quite a bit of time thinking about where we are right now as a country. Have we reached the bottom? My concern is that we are not even 1/4 way down. Ever been wiped out by a wave at the beach and found yourself swimming up only to touch sand when you think you are at the surface? The events of the last 10 days are not encouraging my friends. Hope you all stay well and find some peace this week.
 
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