I am certainly not saying to fire Mike Woodson and hire Dusty May, but the history of sports shows that there rarely is a connection between being a great player and then becoming a great coach or manager. In fact, most great players who took head coaching jobs bombed out. Ted Williams, Pete Rose and Bill Russell are great examples of that. And if you look at the history of great coaches, the opposite seems to also be true. Vince Lombardi, Bill Belichick, Nick Saban, Tommy Lasorda, Red Auerbach, Walter Alston, Casey Stengel and Terry Francona are great examples. Some would add Bobby Knight to that list. He certainly was not a star at OSU. I guess my point is that at the highest level, Xs and Os are important, but understanding the value of team chemistry, understanding how to motivate over paid and over hyped folks and being a master psychologist are more important than calling out the right plays. That's why you have assistant coaches. Dusty May seems to be great proof of my points here. He has a love for the game. He appreciates the talents of his players and knows how to develop a program. He would be a great hire for IU down the road. He seems to have the right stuff. And no, it doesn't matter that he wasn't a star himself.
Best Coaches often were not good players or even played in some cases.
- Thread starter Rotonda Jim
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You’re the guy who thinks Mike Davis should have been retained. People need to never forget that.
Have been a star? No, not necessary. Have played, yes I believe that is required. There are a million little things you won't know if you haven't played. And hard for a coach to get the respect of the players when he hasn't played. There may be a handful of counterexamples but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.
I think a lot of what Mike Woodson brings to the table, is perfect for what is currently entailed in running a major college basketball program. He certainly seems to be able to relate to both players, and players parents/coaches, etc... He has NBA connections. I think as the face of the IU program, he's a pretty good fit.
What I'm mostly worried about are his actual basketball philosophies, and how he is building and coaching those things on a day to day basis, and then in games. And I think Woody's biggest flaw might be that he won't realize those potential shortcomings, and even if he does, he won't allow others to help him with them. Maybe the personalities involved just weren't a good fit, but we've already seen what happened with Matta and Fife, two guys that are very, very good at those things I'm worried about.
If Woody can find a 'Tex Winter' type assistant that is more adept at building offensive and defensive principles, and will trust and encourage them to do that...Woody and his IU teams could really become dominant. If he won't, I fear we'll be constantly questioning what his teams are trying to do, and why they're so inconsistent.
Totally agree with the basic premise, but, being a good player does not prohibit one from being a great coach (Steve Kerr, Phil Jackson come to mind). After the last two decades, CMW is a refreshing change. The jury is still out, but the direction is good. This year's team suffered from lack of outside shooters and losing X was huge. His speed alone would have impacted many games. I am not jumping on the dump CMW train.
I'm not dumping on him yet..
But he could trend that way.. This coming yr..
Indiana fans have little patience now .
I get three yrs..But not seven.
I'd say CMW has had a couple good yrs.
Not great..
And he had a All American to lean on.
So let's see if he can coach guy's up.
Or scheme great games..
Didn't Bill Russell win a title as player-coach?
I think he just didn't like coaching so much and eventually handed the reins back to Red Auerbach.
Bird was arguably the best Pacers coach of their NBA era. Just, again, did much care for the grind of coaching.
Sure, the journeyman-type player is more typically a better coach, maybe because they relate to players with deficiencies that need to be improved or disguised.
I think he just didn't like coaching so much and eventually handed the reins back to Red Auerbach.
Bird was arguably the best Pacers coach of their NBA era. Just, again, did much care for the grind of coaching.
Sure, the journeyman-type player is more typically a better coach, maybe because they relate to players with deficiencies that need to be improved or disguised.
Not saying we should have kept Davis but he did make the round of 32 his last year and DJ White was out the whole season with a broken foot. Had of had DJ I think we could have been pretty darn good that year. I think Davis made the NCAA 4 of his 6 seasons which is a heck of alot more than Archie can say.
Bill russell won as a coach, but he had some hall of famers on that team which had already won. I think CMW is a good coach, not sure about great. Being a great coach, in my opinion, is the ability to push the player to a higher level, keep them there and get the rest of the team to fit together. The way we mostly started out flat in games, don’t seem to have that killer instinct and don’t seem to play smart basketball at times makes me wonder. He can draw up good plays and seems to make halftime adjustments….is that cuz he’s a good coach or a coach who has been around? Some coaches can catch lightening in a bottle and do well for a year maybe 2 (case in point, look at ff4 this yr) great coaches can sustain it through a career (BK, Coach K, Dean Smith) only my opinion but think he is the best coach we’ve had since RMK, but question if he can a natty
Coach K built Duke from scratch ? You need to do some research on Duke basketball.
So I am not sure if you are saying that retaining Davis would have been a good thing or are you saying that my points have no credibility at all because I thought firing him was a mistake. Please clarify and remember that compared to Knight's last six years and what has happened since Davis, you know that he did a relatively good job. That is undeniable.
Exactly what I was going to say!! Ks 1st year was 80-81, and they were in the Final 4 in 78 and the Elite 8 in 80, so in the 3 years before he got there they had a FF and EE appearance. The FF in 78 was their 4th in 15 years and they had 6 EE finishes in the 20 prior to his arrival.
They were a VERY good program before he arrived.
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