Bail Funds Getting Hit Here

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

One (run by the local BLM chair) just forfeited $100,000 after a fine young man they bailed out on his charges of attempted murder and assault pled guilty and then, while awaiting sentencing, went and got himself arrested for assaulting and strangling his girlfriend. On top of three prior felony convictions and 10 prior misdemeanor convictions. Before forfeiting the bond, the judge asked the bail fund witness what research they did before deciding who to bail out. The answer was “look at the on-line court documents.”

In another case, another bail fund (run by a candidate for mayor who has NOT been shot at) bailed out a guy who then went on a drug-fueled crime spree which ended when he held a woman at gunpoint, stole her truck, and crashed the truck into another car, killing a high school cheerleader. Her family is suing the bail project for failing to research his extensive 10 year history of drug arrests and failures to appear for court Before “negligently“ bailing him out. The family is also helping sponsor an anti-bail-funding bill in the legislature - named after the dead daughter - to prevent groups from funding bail of $5,000 or more.

News from Lake Woe, where nobody is average.

 

[mcmurtry66]

One (run by the local BLM chair) just forfeited $100,000 after a fine young man they bailed out on his charges of attempted murder and assault pled guilty and then, while awaiting sentencing, went and got himself arrested for assaulting and strangling his girlfriend. On top of three prior felony convictions and 10 prior misdemeanor convictions. Before forfeiting the bond, the judge asked the bail fund witness what research they did before deciding who to bail out. The answer was “look at the on-line court documents.”

In another case, another bail fund (run by a candidate for mayor who has NOT been shot at) bailed out a guy who then went on a drug-fueled crime spree which ended when he held a woman at gunpoint, stole her truck, and crashed the truck into another car, killing a high school cheerleader. Her family is suing the bail project for failing to research his extensive 10 year history of drug arrests and failures to appear for court Before “negligently“ bailing him out. The family is also helping sponsor an anti-bail-funding bill in the legislature - named after the dead daughter - to prevent groups from funding bail of $5,000 or more.

News from Lake Woe, where nobody is average.

Jesus. You should read the AOC Defund the Police pledge to gain her support and financial backing. These people are genuinely certifiable. The silver-lining of inflation, crime, energy etc is these people are being revealed as lunatics

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Jesus. You should read the AOC Defund the Police pledge to gain her support and financial backing. These people are genuinely certifiable. The silver-lining of inflation, crime, energy etc is these people are being revealed as lunatics

Oprah weeps.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Another one - this one was a subject of an Amber Alert. He shot his girlfriend dead, took their kid, but dropped off the kid with family then ran.

The Bail Project had posted bail for him in 2018, when he had 9 prior arrests - terroristic threatening, wanton endangerment, stolen firearm, possession of firearms, two separate arrests for breaking into a girlfriend’s house, and three additional arrests for domestic violence.

PLUS he had been convicted of reckless homicide in 2009 and sentenced to five years. He shot and killed another teen over a stolen moped. Two months after he got out on that case, he was arrested for pointing a gun at a man and threatening to shoot him. He got three years.

Why would any social justice org bail such a guy out? Is it gang money for gang members?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Another one - this one was a subject of an Amber Alert. He shot his girlfriend dead, took their kid, but dropped off the kid with family then ran.

The Bail Project had posted bail for him in 2018, when he had 9 prior arrests - terroristic threatening, wanton endangerment, stolen firearm, possession of firearms, two separate arrests for breaking into a girlfriend’s house, and three additional arrests for domestic violence.

PLUS he had been convicted of reckless homicide in 2009 and sentenced to five years. He shot and killed another teen over a stolen moped. Two months after he got out on that case, he was arrested for pointing a gun at a man and threatening to shoot him. He got three years.

Why would any social justice org bail such a guy out? Is it gang money for gang members?

They are AOC stupid

 

[UncleMark]

Another one - this one was a subject of an Amber Alert. He shot his girlfriend dead, took their kid, but dropped off the kid with family then ran.

The Bail Project had posted bail for him in 2018, when he had 9 prior arrests - terroristic threatening, wanton endangerment, stolen firearm, possession of firearms, two separate arrests for breaking into a girlfriend’s house, and three additional arrests for domestic violence.

PLUS he had been convicted of reckless homicide in 2009 and sentenced to five years. He shot and killed another teen over a stolen moped. Two months after he got out on that case, he was arrested for pointing a gun at a man and threatening to shoot him. He got three years.

Why would any social justice org bail such a guy out? Is it gang money for gang members?

Why are they allowed to bond out in the first place?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Why are they allowed to bond out in the first place?

Bail should have been denied

 

[UncleMark]

Bail should have been denied

That's my point.

 

[Tscurlo]

Another one - this one was a subject of an Amber Alert. He shot his girlfriend dead, took their kid, but dropped off the kid with family then ran.

The Bail Project had posted bail for him in 2018, when he had 9 prior arrests - terroristic threatening, wanton endangerment, stolen firearm, possession of firearms, two separate arrests for breaking into a girlfriend’s house, and three additional arrests for domestic violence.

PLUS he had been convicted of reckless homicide in 2009 and sentenced to five years. He shot and killed another teen over a stolen moped. Two months after he got out on that case, he was arrested for pointing a gun at a man and threatening to shoot him. He got three years.

Why would any social justice org bail such a guy out? Is it gang money for gang members?

With a record like that…. Why are they even getting bail????

We have a criminal Judicial System here….. besides the actual criminals that are asking for bail. (Let me reword that…. We have a Judicial System that are run by criminals… thats what I meant)

Time to load all of them up on a freighter ship and drop them in the pacific…. Half way between California and Hawaiian Islands.

They can try to swim in either direction.

But then you would have AOC chartering a cruise ship, with our taxpayer dollars, to go pluck them out of the pacific.

 

[Indianaftw]

Why are they allowed to bond out in the first place?

Really Mark...Because the dems have not only defunded the police...The judges, prosectors, and DA's that have been elected or appointed (Democrats see George Soros) are allowing it. Mtiotf is just scraping the surface. Its RAMPANT in Dem run cities and its a very big problem.

When I heard Biden say fund the police after he and NUMEROUS democrats want them defunded is major joke and total bullshit.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Why are they allowed to bond out in the first place?

With a record like that…. Why are they even getting bail????

We have a criminal Judicial System here….. besides the actual criminals that are asking for bail. (Let me reword that…. We have a Judicial System that are run by criminals… thats what I meant)

Time to load all of them up on a freighter ship and drop them in the pacific…. Half way between California and Hawaiian Islands.

They can try to swim in either direction.

But then you would have AOC chartering a cruise ship, with our taxpayer dollars, to go pluck them out of the pacific.

Goes back to the founding and the way The King treated The Colonists.

As the starting point, “the system” assumes everybody is entitled to bail and that denial of bail is the exception, based on circumstances.

Here, a circuit court judge (handles felonies) will hold an arraignment and/or bail hearing for 10-20 people each day. Bigger cities - more. On top of their other docket. Here, these go first, and the courtroom is full or filling with suits waiting for motions in civil cases to be heard once the criminal cases are finished. That judge might already be in the middle of a trial with a jury waiting around to re-start. The judge won’t know a defendant‘s full record at the initial hearing unless the prosecutor tells them, and it would be an exception if the prosecutor in the courtroom knew a real bad guy had been arrested and needed extra attention. Everybody is going through the routine. Both the PD and the prosecutor are just an employee assigned to that court that day, with the main job of writing down the date/time of the next event. The PD asks for little or no bail, the prosecutor asks for an amount. The judge usually sides with the prosecutor. It’s usually “yada yada yada.”

If it’s a locally-publicized crime, TV cameras - maybe 2-3 a year - everybody pays attention. Otherwise, routine. Occasionally, somebody with money has a lawyer show up. Not often. But if a suit starts talking, things are more formal.

Judicial discretion is not totally dead, but it’s strongly limited. Different rules by state for state courts/crime. More uniform in federal court. But the judges have policies and suggested ranges to try and avoid unfair/unequal application of the rules.

Sadly, the crime charged carries the most weight - past arrests don’t - past convictions not enough.

The saddest part - 2 of the above were $5,000 bails. With these “bail groups” these days, that’s getting posted, and these groups groups do virtually nothing to police themselves. Manson gets bail. That’s why state legislatures are starting to pass laws about it.

 

[Tscurlo]

Goes back to the founding and the way The King treated The Colonists.

As the starting point, “the system” assumes everybody is entitled to bail and that denial of bail is the exception, based on circumstances.

Here, a circuit court judge (handles felonies) will hold an arraignment and/or bail hearing for 10-20 people each day. Bigger cities - more. On top of their other docket. Here, these go first, and the courtroom is full or filling with suits waiting for motions in civil cases to be heard once the criminal cases are finished. That judge might already be in the middle of a trial with a jury waiting around to re-start. The judge won’t know a defendant‘s full record at the initial hearing unless the prosecutor tells them, and it would be an exception if the prosecutor in the courtroom knew a real bad guy had been arrested and needed extra attention. Everybody is going through the routine. Both the PD and the prosecutor are just an employee assigned to that court that day, with the main job of writing down the date/time of the next event. The PD asks for little or no bail, the prosecutor asks for an amount. The judge usually sides with the prosecutor. It’s usually “yada yada yada.”

If it’s a locally-publicized crime, TV cameras - maybe 2-3 a year - everybody pays attention. Otherwise, routine. Occasionally, somebody with money has a lawyer show up. Not often. But if a suit starts talking, things are more formal.

Judicial discretion is not totally dead, but it’s strongly limited. Different rules by state for state courts/crime. More uniform in federal court. But the judges have policies and suggested ranges to try and avoid unfair/unequal application of the rules.

Sadly, the crime charged carries the most weight - past arrests don’t - past convictions not enough.

The saddest part - 2 of the above were $5,000 bails. With these “bail groups” these days, that’s getting posted, and these groups groups do virtually nothing to police themselves. Manson gets bail. That’s why state legislatures are starting to pass laws about it.

Thank You for the insight into the process. That helps to explain why. I appreciate your post.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Thank You for the insight into the process. That helps to explain why. I appreciate your post.

THE GOOD NEWS IS “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.”

At least here, and maybe only for a short time, the judges are paying a little more attention. I know one who now says “everybody I let out on bail is walking around with my name tattooed on their forehead.” But before long, “yada yada yada” will be back, and probably a new statute that gives judges even less discretion.

I‘d be a hanging judge for violent folks. Max bail allowed and max sentences allowed.

 

[mcmurtry66]

THE GOOD NEWS IS “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.”

At least here, and maybe only for a short time, the judges are paying a little more attention. I know one who now says “everybody I let out on bail is walking around with my name tattooed on their forehead.” But before long, “yada yada yada” will be back, and probably a new statute that gives judges even less discretion.

I‘d be a hanging judge for violent folks. Max bail allowed and max sentences allowed.

For a while some of the judges here were setting $75k min for any gun charge. Cash only. No surety; no 10%

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

For a while some of the judges here were setting $75k min for any gun charge. Cash only. No surety; no 10%

These bail groups - IMO - are gonna find they are damaging their overall goals. Its all a poorly-designed (but too well funded) piece of the CRT/1619 stuff. They assume all minorities and all poor folks are wrongly incarcerated due to discrimination. The truth is that the vast vast majority folks are incarcerated because they choose to commit crimes. Shawshank is NOT full of innocent people. Attica is not a rally point. When you reject education and the effort to seek good LEGAL jobs, crime is right there waiting on you. Easy. then ... REAL hard.

Working on THAT would be more effective.

 

[Indianaftw]

Thank You for the insight into the process. That helps to explain why. I appreciate your post.

Curlo heres an article of what I was talking about.

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-...-rogue-prosecutor-whose-policies-are-wreaking

There was another one from the LA Times but I could not open it without subscription. Just type in progressive prosectors, judges and da's and use duck duck go please you wont get results in google.

 

[mcmurtry66]

These bail groups - IMO - are gonna find they are damaging their overall goals. Its all a poorly-designed (but too well funded) piece of the CRT/1619 stuff. They assume all minorities and all poor folks are wrongly incarcerated due to discrimination. The truth is that the vast vast majority folks are incarcerated because they choose to commit crimes. Shawshank is NOT full of innocent people. Attica is not a rally point. When you reject education and the effort to seek good LEGAL jobs, crime is right there waiting on you. Easy. then ... REAL hard.

Working on THAT would be more effective.

Or, thinking outside the box a bit, if discrimination is really their motive/issue (whether racism/classism), getting involved with high bail for people who have a shit ton of priors misses the mark, and is a threat to us all as evidenced by your stories. If they want to get involved, maybe they should get involved in the less serious cases and essentially act as or replace the bondsmen

 

[Tscurlo]

Curlo heres an article of what I was talking about.

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-...-rogue-prosecutor-whose-policies-are-wreaking

There was another one from the LA Times but I could not open it without subscription. Just type in progressive prosectors, judges and da's and use duck duck go please you wont get results in google.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Indianaftw]

Curlo heres an article of what I was talking about.

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-...-rogue-prosecutor-whose-policies-are-wreaking

There was another one from the LA Times but I could not open it without subscription. Just type in progressive prosectors, judges and da's and use duck duck go please you wont get results in google.

Crib Notes

Pretrial Release

Special Directive 20-06 is entitled “Pretrial Release Policy.” A more accurate title would be: “Let Everyone Out of Jail and End Cash Bail.”

This is a top priority for the rogue prosecutor movement: eliminate cash bail.

Cash bail, according to the directive, creates a “two-tied system of justice,” and leads to “unnecessary incarceration” that harms “individuals, families and communities.” And even though Californians just voted to keep cash bail, Gascón rejects the will of the voters and will not follow the law.

Prosecutors are prohibited, regardless of a criminal’s long record, from requesting cash bail for any misdemeanor, non-serious felony (at least in Gascón’s eyes), or non-violent offense.

And get this: prosecutors are not allowed to oppose a defense counsel’s motion to remove or modify conditions of release.

To top it off, these policies apply retroactively, to anyone currently incarcerated in Los Angeles County on cash bail. And prosecutors are prohibited from objecting to their release.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Crib Notes

Pretrial Release

Special Directive 20-06 is entitled “Pretrial Release Policy.” A more accurate title would be: “Let Everyone Out of Jail and End Cash Bail.”

This is a top priority for the rogue prosecutor movement: eliminate cash bail.

Cash bail, according to the directive, creates a “two-tied system of justice,” and leads to “unnecessary incarceration” that harms “individuals, families and communities.” And even though Californians just voted to keep cash bail, Gascón rejects the will of the voters and will not follow the law.

Prosecutors are prohibited, regardless of a criminal’s long record, from requesting cash bail for any misdemeanor, non-serious felony (at least in Gascón’s eyes), or non-violent offense.

And get this: prosecutors are not allowed to oppose a defense counsel’s motion to remove or modify conditions of release.

To top it off, these policies apply retroactively, to anyone currently incarcerated in Los Angeles County on cash bail. And prosecutors are prohibited from objecting to their release.

Absolute clown world.

On the one hand I think, that’s what these people voted for so I have no sympathy for them.

On the other hand I think, there are a lot of people there who didn’t vote for it and are suffering just the same.

Meanwhile, a lot of posters here will tell you with dead seriousness that Trump voters are the biggest threat this country faces.

 

[Cortez88]

Or, thinking outside the box a bit, if discrimination is really their motive/issue (whether racism/classism), getting involved with high bail for people who have a shit ton of priors misses the mark, and is a threat to us all as evidenced by your stories. If they want to get involved, maybe they should get involved in the less serious cases and essentially act as or replace the bondsmen

Right. Pick the right battles.

 

[TMFT]

I need to throw out that every crime in Indiana (at least initially) gets a bond set except for murder. Even if there's a murder, there is a process to get a bond set. It's state law. So there aren't circumstances where someone can be held without bond indefinitely from the outset.

This isn't commentary on the bail project pros/cons or on judges setting bonds or prosecutors arguing (or not) for increased bonds, it's just a reality we live with.

MTIOTF's description of big city initial hearings is pretty accurate in my opinion. Indianapolis courts are a cattle call with tons of cases coming through each day. It can be fairly rote. Beyond that, there is another reality the judges have to live with that there just isn't room in the jails if they held a lot more people. And contrary to public opinion, it's not people in jail for having a joint on them that are clogging the Indianapolis jails. I can't speak for other jurisdictions or the federal prison system.

Sad Bail Story: I had this frequent flyer defendant who was crazy as the day is long but also a very sweet lady. Mental health issues. Homeless. Drug addiction. Prostitution. She'd get out and promise to go to the clinic to get her meds and be back weeks later. The judge would ask her what happened and she'd look down sad and say "I got crack again." Anyway, she had been around more than normal at one point, had multiple cases pending. I asked the judge to hold her without bail because of all the pre-trial release violations and because, frankly, she was safer in jail than out. She was let out anyway. A few weeks later she was murdered & her body was found burned in a vacant lot on the east side. Not being able to keep her safe is one of those things that is always going to haunt me.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I need to throw out that every crime in Indiana (at least initially) gets a bond set except for murder. Even if there's a murder, there is a process to get a bond set. It's state law. So there aren't circumstances where someone can be held without bond indefinitely from the outset.

This isn't commentary on the bail project pros/cons or on judges setting bonds or prosecutors arguing (or not) for increased bonds, it's just a reality we live with.

MTIOTF's description of big city initial hearings is pretty accurate in my opinion. Indianapolis courts are a cattle call with tons of cases coming through each day. It can be fairly rote. Beyond that, there is another reality the judge's have to live with that there just isn't room in the jails if they held a lot more people. And contrary to public opinion, it's not people in jail for having a joint on them that are clogging the Indianapolis jails. I can't speak for other jurisdictions or the federal prison system.

Sad Bail Story: I had this frequent flyer defendant who was crazy as the day is long but also a very sweet lady. Mental health issues. Homeless. Drug addiction. Prostitution. She'd get out and promise to go to the clinic to get her meds and be back weeks later. The judge would ask her what happened and she'd look down sad and say "I got crack again." Anyway, she had been around more than normal at one point, had multiple cases pending. I asked the judge to hold her without bail because of all the pre-trial release violations and because, frankly, she was safer in jail than out. She was let out anyway. A few weeks later she was murdered & her body was found burned in a vacant lot on the east side. Not being able to keep her safe is one of those things that is always going to haunt me.

Wow. Interesting. In Missouri if judge deems person a threat (to victim, community, etc) they can deny bail by statute. Charge is immaterial. Threat is what's germane. Then Defendant is entitled to trial within 120 days of arraignment.

 

[TMFT]

Wow. Interesting. In Missouri if judge deems person a threat (to victim, community, etc) they can deny bail by statute. Charge is immaterial. Threat is what's germane. Then Defendant is entitled to trial within 120 days of arraignment.

Yeah, the bail can be set super high, but it has to exist here. If they screw up their release conditions it can be revoked, but sadly that's pretty rare. Effectively though, a high bond for most people is tantamount to having no bail. Like what's the difference between a $200k bond & a $1M bond for most folks, even at a 10% surety it's not particularly easy to come up with $20k cash.

Off hand I think I like Missouri's system better. I think our "speedy" trial deadline is 90 days but the defendant has to be in custody to claim it & it's not automatic. Speedy trials are the worst if it's a remotely complicated case.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Yeah, the bail can be set super high, but it has to exist here. If they screw up their release conditions it can be revoked, but sadly that's pretty rare. Effectively though, a high bond for most people is tantamount to having no bail. Like what's the difference between a $200k bond & a $1M bond for most folks, even at a 10% surety it's not particularly easy to come up with $20k cash.

Off hand I think I like Missouri's system better. I think our "speedy" trial deadline is 90 days but the defendant has to be in custody to claim it & it's not automatic. Speedy trials are the worst if it's a remotely complicated case.

I can't imagine what criminal lawyers have gone through the last few years. Zoom. Masks. Seems prejudicial to defendants and arguably unconstitutional

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

One (run by the local BLM chair) just forfeited $100,000 after a fine young man they bailed out on his charges of attempted murder and assault pled guilty and then, while awaiting sentencing, went and got himself arrested for assaulting and strangling his girlfriend. On top of three prior felony convictions and 10 prior misdemeanor convictions. Before forfeiting the bond, the judge asked the bail fund witness what research they did before deciding who to bail out. The answer was “look at the on-line court documents.”

In another case, another bail fund (run by a candidate for mayor who has NOT been shot at) bailed out a guy who then went on a drug-fueled crime spree which ended when he held a woman at gunpoint, stole her truck, and crashed the truck into another car, killing a high school cheerleader. Her family is suing the bail project for failing to research his extensive 10 year history of drug arrests and failures to appear for court Before “negligently“ bailing him out. The family is also helping sponsor an anti-bail-funding bill in the legislature - named after the dead daughter - to prevent groups from funding bail of $5,000 or more.

News from Lake Woe, where nobody is average.

I hope the family puts the bail fund out of commission, but I'm sure there are plenty of layers of legal structuring to protecting it, no?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Like what's the difference between a $200k bond & a $1M bond for most folks, even at a 10% surety it's not particularly easy to come up with $20k cash.

Isn't that part of the issue? The guy who shot at the Louisville mayor was only able to post bail because he received help in the funding from complete outsiders.

 

[TMFT]

Isn't that part of the issue? The guy who shot at the Louisville mayor was only able to post bail because he received help in the funding from complete outsiders.

100% the issue.

The principle of the Bail Project is fine. The purpose of bail is to secure attendance and if some jurisdiction keeps someone in jail for a relatively minor crime with a $1,000 cash bail they can't pay, sure they're securing attendance, but people lose jobs. I'm not saying this is very common, it's certainly not in Indy, but I'm talking broadly. But the Bail Project is an abject failure if they're not doing their due diligence in deciding who to help out. And, unfortunately for the Bail Project, their hits go unnoticed but their misses can become national news.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Isn't that part of the issue? The guy who shot at the Louisville mayor was only able to post bail because he received help in the funding from complete outsiders.

In that specific case they had a better motive - the kid was well-known and known to need counseling and meds. They got him out (allegedly) to get him mental health treatment. (Multiple deaths of inmates in our local jail too.)