Arch’, give Lander some minutes

Coach Geez

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it’s not perception when you look at conference stats. It’s fact. IU is allowing 36% from deep in conference tied for 9th. Maryland missed a lot of wide open ones.
IU just held the country's 11th most efficient offense to 55 points in a game where their best perimeter player rolled his ankles 2 minutes into the contest and didn't return. Think about that.
 

Coach Geez

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well I really disagree with this. I want IU to compete for final fours, need 5 stars to do that. Lander not playing is sending a message to future recruits, that is part of it. They are looking at how he is being used. Not playing at all, transferring, and god forbid flourishing elsewhere would be a program killer.

we are not elite enough where we can just have 5 stars leave like UK. Have to make it work. Romeo was one pick away of falling out of the lottery, he wasn’t a success story at IU. If you are a top 3 recruit you should be in the lottery. Archie needs to hit on Lander now or later in his career.
Your "recruiting stars" go out the window once you graduate high school. Talent only takes you so far at this level. Give me a guy like Armaan Franklin who is willing to put in the work to get better over a "5 star" who thinks he's entitled to minutes just because a recruiting service told him he was so good in high school.

You can add Trey Galloway to that future camp as well.
 
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Cavanagh

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IU just held the country's 11th most efficient offense to 55 points in a game where their best perimeter player rolled his ankles 2 minutes into the contest and didn't return. Think about that.
outside of Wiggins Maryland played like shit. They played the worst game of the season. Maybe morsel makes them go. Our defense is really good. It needs to get better on defending the three. Psu torched us and we didn’t defend any better at the line against Maryland. They just missed them.
 

Cavanagh

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Your "recruiting stars" go out the window once you graduate high school. Talent only takes you so far at this level. Give me a guy like Armaan Franklin who is willing to put in the work to get better over a "5 star" who thinks he's entitled to minutes just because a recruiting service told him he was so good in high school.

You can add Trey Galloway to that future camp as well.
sounds good for 1979, but in 2021 not how it works with the elite kids. Need elite kids to win. If you don’t think landers situation will impact future elite recruits, I can’t help you. You are just wrong and out of touch with reality and that generation.
 

MrBing

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it’s not perception when you look at conference stats. It’s fact. IU is allowing 36% from deep in conference tied for 9th. Maryland missed a lot of wide open ones.
I'm using overall stats because there are more games and it wasn't weak competition. Maryland was shooting nearly 50% overall and almost 38% from 3 before last night's game and shot 38.5 and 28 last night. Our defense had a lot to do with that. Our defense is good. Offense is our problem. It's that simple.
 

Coach Geez

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sounds good for 1979, but in 2021 not how it works with the elite kids. Need elite kids to win. If you don’t think landers situation will impact future elite recruits, I can’t help you. You are just wrong and out of touch with reality and that generation.
Elite or not, you're not going to play if you're not ready. Jay Wright had no issue sitting Javhon Quinerly on the bench a few years back because he wasn't ready.
 

rikki-tikka-tava

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well I really disagree with this. I want IU to compete for final fours, need 5 stars to do that. Lander not playing is sending a message to future recruits, that is part of it. They are looking at how he is being used. Not playing at all, transferring, and god forbid flourishing elsewhere would be a program killer.

we are not elite enough where we can just have 5 stars leave like UK. Have to make it work. Romeo was one pick away of falling out of the lottery, he wasn’t a success story at IU. If you are a top 3 recruit you should be in the lottery. Archie needs to hit on Lander now or later in his career.
Disagree all you want but you're still wrong. Perhaps the only message being sent is "stay in school" and/or don't believe everything that's written about you in the media. And what's the message that would be sent to the rest of the Team if Miller plays a guy that hasn't earned it in Practice and/or continuously screws up on the Floor?

Give KL some credit for recognizing and owning up to his shortcomings. If he jumps ship because he thinks he's getting a raw deal rather than what he deserves/earns, then the Program's probably better off without him. For my part am going to trust that he's not the prima donna you and others seem to imagine and that the Staff and his Teammates will see him through the learning curve that results in him securing a spot in the rotation before becoming a Starter.

Your whole argument is predicated on the notion that Khristian is somehow lacking in personal integrity. If his character is 'five-star' or even above average, he'll work his tail off next Summer and come back resembling something more in line with his and everyone else's expectations rather than copping an attitude and acting like anyone else is at fault for him not getting more PT than at present.
 

snarlcakes

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Don’t disagree with anything here but you have to look at it from Archie’s point of view. He has to play the players that are going to give him the best chance to win on a game to game basis, because if not he won’t have a job.
We won the game because Race played well and TJD took over in the 2nd half. Hunter literally gave Maryland 6 free throws and still continued to play. Galloway was awful. Leal did nothing. Phin was his usual up and down. Durham struggled shooting, but able to get to the line. I don’t think anyone thinks Lander should start, but it’s crazy he can’t a 4-5 minute stretch each half.
 

Cavanagh

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I'm using overall stats because there are more games and it wasn't weak competition. Maryland was shooting nearly 50% overall and almost 38% from 3 before last night's game and shot 38.5 and 28 last night. Our defense had a lot to do with that. Our defense is good. Offense is our problem. It's that simple.
Well it was not close to the competition of the big ten so you can make a generalzion of "wasn't weak" but the fact remains that isn't acurrate. The B1G is far better competition five of the seven games we played in non con would be the easiest game on our schedule other than Nebraska. The two good teams shot 33% from deep against us (we allowed FSU to shoot 40%), add that into the stats if you want. The other 5 that we shut down doesn't mean a damn thing going forward as we won't play anyone of that caliber the rest of the season, again other than Nebraska.

If this team wants to be elite, again, what the goal should be, than it needs to be better. Being an 8 seed and 10-10 should not be the goal. In order for this D to be Elite, like top 5 good, it needs to be cleaned up. We won't stay as a top 10 D very long if we dont. Starting with Wisconsin.
 

Cavanagh

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Elite or not, you're not going to play if you're not ready. Jay Wright had no issue sitting Javhon Quinerly on the bench a few years back because he wasn't ready.
Lol after 2 national championships he can afford to sit a 5 star and make him transfer and go play for Alabama. Where he just put up his 3rd double digit scoring game in a row, the last to Upset top 10 Tennessee. Holy shit could you have picked another player to completely prove my point?

We cannot afford to sit a 5 star have him transfer and succeed elsewhere. That is a program killer. We have not made the tourney since Nam. Last year we had to win our last game before a pandemic to be safely in. Squarely on the bubble. We are a shitty program, we are not freaking Nova. 5 stars will stop coming here if Lander transfers. We are not good enough to allow that to happen.
 

jsig

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Archie needs wins now. When Armaan went down IU was playing poorly. Lander came in and was lost and threw the ball out of bounds. Then when IU turned the game around, do you put him in and kill momentum.

Lander is a HS player getting experience being on a big time Big Ten program. What are the COVID rules. Does Lander get 5 years of eligibility?
 

MrBing

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Well it was not close to the competition of the big ten so you can make a generalzion of "wasn't weak" but the fact remains that isn't acurrate. The B1G is far better competition five of the seven games we played in non con would be the easiest game on our schedule other than Nebraska. The two good teams shot 33% from deep against us (we allowed FSU to shoot 40%), add that into the stats if you want. The other 5 that we shut down doesn't mean a damn thing going forward as we won't play anyone of that caliber the rest of the season, again other than Nebraska.

If this team wants to be elite, again, what the goal should be, than it needs to be better. Being an 8 seed and 10-10 should not be the goal. In order for this D to be Elite, like top 5 good, it needs to be cleaned up. We won't stay as a top 10 D very long if we dont. Starting with Wisconsin.
Sample size matters for statistics. After last night's game IU moved up to first in the conference for opponents' 3pt% overall (11 games) and up to 9 in the conference only games after 4 games. We're also third in FT percentage in conference games only and 10th in all games. We'll see which trends and statistics are most accurate as the season rolls on.

 

Coach Geez

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Lol after 2 national championships he can afford to sit a 5 star and make him transfer and go play for Alabama. Where he just put up his 3rd double digit scoring game in a row, the last to Upset top 10 Tennessee. Holy shit could you have picked another player to completely prove my point?
You just said in 2021 coaches can't afford to sit 5* talent. And Quinerly isn't Wright's only example. Wright has signed three 5*'s in the time frame Archie has been head coach. Bryan Antoine was a 5* last year who averaged 1ppg playing 5mpg prior to getting hurt.

This idea that 5* will stop coming to Indiana because a reclassified kid who didn't get a lot of run during a pandemic because he physically wasn't ready to contribute is the single dumbest thing you've ever contributed to this site and that says a lot because everything out of your mouth is dumb.
 

5morebanners

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That's true to a certain extent, but some kids, regardless of their flaws, just need to be let loose and go win. Think IT, and even RMK recognized that. I could give a shit how good our stupid, gimmick defense is in a year, just let the kid loose and make us a watchable product for as long as he's here
Under Knight, Lander would redshirt or play 1 min in garbage time. You used a bad example to prove your point. Knight didn’t ever “let anyone loose.” Maybe in ‘81, but that’s arguable too.
 
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mushroomgod_1

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it’s not perception when you look at conference stats. It’s fact. IU is allowing 36% from deep in conference tied for 9th. Maryland missed a lot of wide open ones.

I don't think it's a fact. I do think defending the 3, and lack of steals, are the weakest parts of our overall strong D, but that's not equivalent to saying we're bad at defending the 3.

The last couple of years we ended up between 31-33% for the season. This team does not have the look of being worse defending the 3 than in recent years.

If you take out Tenn Tech & N. Alabama, the remainder of the teams (9) looks pretty close in difficulty to the BT overall this year. Take out those 2 teams & we're at .337. I suspect that's about where we will end up when we get through the BT. I think if we end up at .337 overall that's very comparable or better than the last 2 years, because this year's schedule is so much more difficult.
 
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mushroomgod_1

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outside of Wiggins Maryland played like shit. They played the worst game of the season. Maybe morsel makes them go. Our defense is really good. It needs to get better on defending the three. Psu torched us and we didn’t defend any better at the line against Maryland. They just missed them.

I agree MD played like crap. They've been an up and down team all year, often depending on their level of energy. Against Wisconsin they were completely into the game and played great. Against us they were quiet all game, and played like crap. Like you said, they probably also missed Morsell. They're not that deep or that smart anyway, and that hurt them in both respects.

We also played like crap for 3/4 of the game, even worse than MD. We played well 1/4 of the game and that was enough, given how poorly they played.
 
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Cavanagh

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You just said in 2021 coaches can't afford to sit 5* talent. And Quinerly isn't Wright's only example. Wright has signed three 5*'s in the time frame Archie has been head coach. Bryan Antoine was a 5* last year who averaged 1ppg playing 5mpg prior to getting hurt.

This idea that 5* will stop coming to Indiana because a reclassified kid who didn't get a lot of run during a pandemic because he physically wasn't ready to contribute is the single dumbest thing you've ever contributed to this site and that says a lot because everything out of your mouth is dumb.
can’t fix stupid. I won’t try. Happy new year.
 
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Coach Geez

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I don't think it's a fact. I do think defending the 3, and lack of steals, are the weakest parts of our overall strong D, but that's not equivalent to saying we're bad at defending the 3.

The last couple of years we ended up between 31-33% for the season. This team does not have the look of being worse defending the 3 than in recent years.

If you take out Tenn Tech & N. Alabama, the remainder of the teams (9) looks pretty close in difficulty to the BT overall this year. Take out those 2 teams & we're at .337. I suspect that's about where we will end up when we get through the BT. I think if we end up at .337 overall that's very comparable or better than the last 2 years, because this year's schedule is so much more difficult.
Keep in mind that that 3/4 of IU's conference opponents are in the top 6 of 3pt % (Illinois #1, NW #3, PSU #6) and Maryland was sitting top half prior to last nights performance.
 
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darkhawk returns

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When he is capable of defending at the B10 level he will get more min. The kid is 17 and would be a senior in HS. I think he deserves a little patience....

Let’s see where Lander is. Give him two 6 minute stretches, more if he’s playing ok. Establish a live game baseline. It’s crazy the way he plays 1 or 2 minutes and is out. Leal provided steady minutes tonight, but he gave up back to back 3’s by being late to cover his man, and Archie allowed him to keep stay in the game. This Lander thing and Archie is weird! Go Hoosier!
 

dbmhoosier

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I am cool with that if we win. However, we start losing some of these games, it will be because of guard play, and if he doesnt play when we are losing, I have problems with that.

Mainly because I do not want him to transfer. If IU were a top 5 team in conference it would be one thing, but if we are gonna finish 10th and Archie loses Lander to transferring, he should be Fired on the spot. You just dont get 5 stars to reclassify. Hell IU gets a 5 star once every 3 years or so on average? He has tons of potential and I do not want to lose him.
Archie's buyout drops to almost nothing after next season. I'm sure he's been told that he has to make the dance both this season and next to get an extension. Lander isn't ready and his job is obviously more important to him than one recruit.
 

Bloom.

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Lander threw the ball straight out of bounds to the sideline from the top of the key.


we are not elite enough where we can just have 5 stars leave like UK.
Lander was overrated in HS. If he would stay thinking about a four year career, he could be a good one. However, even though it tempered down a bit before he finished his junior year, much of this graduating early was so he could get to the NBA more quickly.

I can appreciate people in his camp being excited about his talent, but we're talking about people (the ones pushing the NBA) who hadn't really been through this before.
 

jimmygoiu

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Lander will get his opportunity the next 2 games. With AFranklin doubtful with a rolled ankle, Lander should get 10 plus minutes. I hope he's ready...
 

Cavanagh

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Lander threw the ball straight out of bounds to the sideline from the top of the key.




Lander was overrated in HS. If he would stay thinking about a four year career, he could be a good one. However, even though it tempered down a bit before he finished his junior year, much of this graduating early was so he could get to the NBA more quickly.

I can appreciate people in his camp being excited about his talent, but we're talking about people (the ones pushing the NBA) who hadn't really been through this before.
Unfortunately, his camp, and other kids that are elite enough to have camps, get some really shitty advise. You know this more than most. The kids are trying to fast track to the nba like I’ve been saying for the last few days. Because Miller made his bed with Lander, getting him to reclassify, he needs to make it work IMO. If that means 4 year player, great I’d love that! But if he transfers for any reason it is a huge blow to miller and this program. Especially if we go 10-10 in the process and he never plays. Elite guards will not come play for Miller in the future.
 

Coach Geez

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Unfortunately, his camp, and other kids that are elite enough to have camps, get some really shitty advise. You know this more than most. The kids are trying to fast track to the nba like I’ve been saying for the last few days. Because Miller made his bed with Lander, getting him to reclassify, he needs to make it work IMO. If that means 4 year player, great I’d love that! But if he transfers for any reason it is a huge blow to miller and this program. Especially if we go 10-10 in the process and he never plays. Elite guards will not come play for Miller in the future.
You’re talking out of your ASS!
 
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T.M.P.

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It’s called being a “realist.” If enough IU fans will finally get tired of being mediocre maybe we can force the administration to finally do something. The money needs to dry up when Covid-19 is over.
No, it's because you're too dumb to function. Somewhere along the way your teachers, parent and peers have failed to tell you that but it's glaringly obvious.
 

Bloom.

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Unfortunately, his camp, and other kids that are elite enough to have camps, get some really shitty advise. You know this more than most. The kids are trying to fast track to the nba like I’ve been saying for the last few days. Because Miller made his bed with Lander, getting him to reclassify, he needs to make it work IMO. If that means 4 year player, great I’d love that! But if he transfers for any reason it is a huge blow to miller and this program. Especially if we go 10-10 in the process and he never plays. Elite guards will not come play for Miller in the future.
By camp, I mean his family and his trainer. As I recall, as vast majority of us have families. However, you're calling Lander "elite", so I'm not sure you're in a position to be overly critical of the advice he got. He's not elite. He was dunking in 8th grade and had a great crossover.

Miller didn't get Lander to reclassify. Miller bought into it Lander's desire to do so.

I would not want him to transfer, but if he does, he does. It's not going to be a huge blow to the program.
 
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ndhuntington

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Lander is going to transfer. But I don’t see the kid ever being more than Rob Phinisee.

Give it time kid should be playing his senior year in high school remember Tom Coverdale averaged 1.0ppg his freshman year behind Lewis and Guyton.
 

TommyCracker

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I need Lander to show me something, anything to get me on the bandwagon.

So far he's been a bricklayer, has turned the ball over and has gotten destroyed defensively.

I don't want him to play because he looks like shit. I'm guessing he is struggling in practice also.

And that's fine, we need his potential self. I expect him to get better and become a weapon.

As far as him transferring, I'm not connected but I don't believe there are any vibes.

Regardless if he does I'm sure other coaches will try to use it against Archie but he can just come back with what he's done with Morgan and now TJD.

So I'm not concerned. Especially with the free agency that is opening up.

Chew on this. The state of Minnesota has produced a sick amount of talent over the past five years. From Hurt to Tyrell Terry to Njiai to Garcia to Coffey to Oturu to Tre Jones to McKinley Wright to Brad Davidson to Nate Rievers to Race Thompson plus more....and Rick Pitino only got 2 of them.

Then he lost a top 50 recruit to transfer a year ago (Washington).

So how in the hell is he ranked in the top fifteen?

The transfer market.

It's going to be crazy this spring.

With an open transfer market I'm guessing HS recruiting won't be as critical as it used to be.
 
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Cavanagh

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By camp, I mean his family and his trainer. As I recall, as vast majority of us have families. However, you're calling Lander "elite", so I'm not sure you're in a position to be overly critical of the advice he got. He's not elite. He was dunking in 8th grade and had a great crossover.

Miller didn't get Lander to reclassify. Miller bought into it Lander's desire to do so.

I would not want him to transfer, but if he does, he does. It's not going to be a huge blow to the program.
I hear camp and I think romeos preacher. I have no clue who Lander is close with and listens too. There are a lot of young good/elite kids that are told from 12 years old up they are going to the nba, and gonna be there fast. Lander it sounds like was one of those.

Regardless, If he transfers it will be a huge blow
to the program. Hell, I’d wager Archie’s job depends on what way it goes. He stays Archie will be here in 3 years, he goes he won’t.
 

Cavanagh

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I need Lander to show me something, anything to get me on the bandwagon.

So far he's been a bricklayer, has turned the ball over and has gotten destroyed defensively.

I don't want him to play because he looks like shit. I'm guessing he is struggling in practice also.

And that's fine, we need his potential self. I expect him to get better and become a weapon.

As far as him transferring, I'm not connected but I don't believe there are any vibes.

Regardless if he does I'm sure other coaches will try to use it against Archie but he can just come back with what he's done with Morgan and now TJD.

So I'm not concerned. Especially with the free agency that is opening up.

Chew on this. The state of Minnesota has produced a sick amount of talent over the past five years. From Hurt to Tyrell Terry to Njiai to Garcia to Coffey to Oturu to Tre Jones to McKinley Wright to Brad Davidson to Nate Rievers to Race Thompson plus more....and Rick Pitino only got 2 of them.

Then he lost a top 50 recruit to transfer a year ago (Washington).

So how in the hell is he ranked in the top fifteen?

The transfer market.

It's going to be crazy this spring.

With an open transfer market I'm guessing HS recruiting won't be as critical as it used to be.
transfer market will be wild. I still circle back to what I said a few months ago in the our success this year will greatly effect how well Archie is able to do this summer in the transfer market.

We are the 22 ranked team go to the tourney and lose in a close sweet 16, hell make it elite 8 for my sake. Then TJD goes pro, gonna be a lot of big guys looking to come play at IU.

I just don’t see the enthusiasm if we go 8-12 and win a few NIT games. IMO this season has to be a success or everything falls apart for Archie.

make or break year!
 

Cavanagh

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That's just utterly silly.
Then take the bet :). The way I look at it, if we are not good, the better odds he transfers. On the other hand, if IU does well I believe he will be a part of it and stay. Thats my rational and I am sticking to it! Willing to put my money where my mouth is!

If Lander transfers Archie will not be our coach in 2023. If Lander stays he will be. how much we betting!?

Can make it a steak dinner or some good seats to an IU game in the future if you want as well. Does not have to be money.
 
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