“White lives matter!”

[iuwclurker1]

Still not sure what you're saying. Can I imagine being black? I can imagine being black more than you, probably, because I went to a majority black school and have many black friends. However, I'm not black, so I can only imagine.

Where I lived growing up was in the worst part of my town. There were gangs, but I wasn't involved, other than having fights with some of them individually - which I can say I never definitively lost, which is probably a good thing looking back at it. Luckily, no one shot me. In fact, that wasn't a thing any of us expected back then. It was just standard fighting without weapons of any kind, although one time a guy did look for me with a knife after I had knocked his teeth out (God's honest truth). However, after he was taken to the hospital and had his mouth taken care of, he never tried to stab me or anything. In fact, he actually returned to being a friend. He was bigger than me so it was good for him and me that we remained friends. It's an image thing. I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that you, and probably no one on the WC, has had that kind of experience. Wrong?

I think we can agree that times have changed. My fights would probably be far more serious if they had happened now. The fighting wasn't a picnic back then of course, but I was never worried about being killed. Kids do worry about that now.

Let me keep it simple. I get the impression you're saying that you had it just as tough as most others, in particular the people represented in The Wired and you firmly believe anyone, like you, like them, can come out of whatever their circumstances are and make a good living.

What I'm fishing for, if you will, is evidence that your circumstances weren't really all that comparable to what Zeke was talking about, for starters, you were born white, and second you were born a long time ago when things weren't nearly as bad as they are now. In other words, there are several quantum differences in circumstances and though yours might have been several quanta worse than mine or Zeke's or NPT's, I'm willing to bet they were several quanta better than some here in the US. Thus, you're far oversimplifying the situation for those people. They're up against odds far greater than you had and let's not ignore that you're probably pretty far to the right on the bell curve in terms of intelligence and native ability.

You're free to base your political beliefs on whatever you want, but if you're going to be honest, that includes admitting you're ignoring those who you're ignoring if you're ignoring anyone.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Let me keep it simple. I get the impression you're saying that you had it just as tough as most others, in particular the people represented in The Wired and you firmly believe anyone, like you, like them, can come out of whatever their circumstances are and make a good living.

What I'm fishing for, if you will, is evidence that your circumstances weren't really all that comparable to what Zeke was talking about, for starters, you were born white, and second you were born a long time ago when things weren't nearly as bad as they are now. In other words, there are several quantum differences in circumstances and though yours might have been several quanta worse than mine or Zeke's or NPT's, I'm willing to bet they were several quanta better than some here in the US. Thus, you're far oversimplifying the situation for those people. They're up against odds far greater than you had and let's not ignore that you're probably pretty far to the right on the bell curve in terms of intelligence and native ability.

You're free to base your political beliefs on whatever you want, but if you're going to be honest, that includes admitting you're ignoring those who you're ignoring if you're ignoring anyone.

You actually think race relations are worse now?

 

[iu_a_att]

You're free to base your political beliefs on whatever you want, but if you're going to be honest, that includes admitting you're ignoring those who you're ignoring if you're ignoring anyone.

I got the sense from reading the OP that this moment gave Aloha some insight that he didn't quite have before. One should make neither too much nor too little of such moments. But they are rare for most of us and are best if simply appreciated for what they are.

 

[iu_a_att]

It just feels like a lot of us - and by "us," let's be honest, I'm talking about "white Americans" - are extra defensive about race.

This is a very important observation I think. It seems to me that it is worth just treating this as fact and then working our way around to figuring out what it means. But I think a lot of people will struggle even with this single point--"white Americans" are extra defensive about race.

 

[hoosboot]

1sr, McNulty appars written as Simon. When writers do that, characters are limited. Biggest example, Jack Ryan was Tom Clancy's alter ego.

We have a cop, with s heart of gold who is divorced because he could not help but put his job 1st. Oh, he Irish. Right out of central casting.

We have the lesbian who has to try harder. Prediction, her relationship will fail because she will pit her job first.

But even more a complaint is the leadership. So far, all are totally incompetent. Baltimore seems to have James Bond's "Q" in an FBI agent that hands them gadgets as needed.

I still like the show. I think the best writer for tv was Sorkin, I just don't think McNulty, we Simon, is quite that good. He's good, better than most. I'm just not retiring his jersey yet (and I am only 7 episodes or so in).

I'm really surprised by your take on Simon. They are very different styles, but IMHO Simon is a much better writer for TV. Homicide, The Corner, and Treme are all superior to The Newsroom and Sports Night (again IMHO - and I really loved Sports Night). And if you don't like your stilted archetypes, I'm not sure how one could get through The West Wing. They worked for the most part, but Sorkin loved to work the familiar emotional hook (there's a reason why they become familiar after all).

Simon does a great job of keeping characters and storylines fresh over time. Sorkin seemed to struggle with that outside of The West Wing. He seems better suited for high concepts that burn big and bright while Simon is a verite guy who played the slow burn. Sorkin prefers his drama big and loud while Simon prefers his gritty and close to the vest. That said, Aaron Sorkin is a GREAT writer. He just seems to be better suited for high concept drama and, more particularly, movies (which is where he has made his bigger splash anyway outside of The West Wing). And all of these series suffer some from being taken out of their generational context. It's amazing that they hold up as well as they do (echoing the previous thoughts on The Sopranos here.)

 

[iuwclurker1]

You actually think race relations are worse now?

Not what I was saying. The plight and prospects of people in such circumstances is worse than 30, 40 or more years ago.

 

[iuwclurker1]

I got the sense from reading the OP that this moment gave Aloha some insight that he didn't quite have before. One should make neither too much nor too little of such moments. But they are rare for most of us and are best if simply appreciated for what they are.

What Aloha and I were debating just now is completely unrelated to what you just wrote. Aloha seems to think he had it just as hard as a lot of people nowadays or people portrayed in The Wire, hence they have just the same chances to be successful in life. I find that dubious in many ways and on many levels and based on a drastically over-simplified political philosophy.

 

[zeke4ahs]

1sr, McNulty appars written as Simon. When writers do that, characters are limited. Biggest example, Jack Ryan was Tom Clancy's alter ego.

We have a cop, with s heart of gold who is divorced because he could not help but put his job 1st. Oh, he Irish. Right out of central casting.

We have the lesbian who has to try harder. Prediction, her relationship will fail because she will pit her job first.

But even more a complaint is the leadership. So far, all are totally incompetent. Baltimore seems to have James Bond's "Q" in an FBI agent that hands them gadgets as needed.

I still like the show. I think the best writer for tv was Sorkin, I just don't think McNulty, we Simon, is quite that good. He's good, better than most. I'm just not retiring his jersey yet (and I am only 7 episodes or so in).

Simon is Gus in Season 5. McNulty doesn't really have a heart of gold, but you'll find that out. I like Sorkin an awful lot, but don't think he comes close to Simon. What kind of gadgets? I can't really think of any used at all except the burners. The dept. usually had to fight for everything they got. We'll see what you think at the end of the first season. He writes the seasons like a novel. They start kind of slow, simmer for awhile, and then so much happens in the last couple episodes it's hard to keep track. I binged them though. Not sure I could watch an episode here and an episode there. By episode 8 or so, I'd usually watch the last 4 or 5 in a row.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I'm really surprised by your take on Simon. They are very different styles, but IMHO Simon is a much better writer for TV. Homicide, The Corner, and Treme are all superior to The Newsroom and Sports Night (again IMHO - and I really loved Sports Night). And if you don't like your stilted archetypes, I'm not sure how one could get through The West Wing. They worked for the most part, but Sorkin loved to work the familiar emotional hook (there's a reason why they become familiar after all).

Simon does a great job of keeping characters and storylines fresh over time. Sorkin seemed to struggle with that outside of The West Wing. He seems better suited for high concepts that burn big and bright while Simon is a verite guy who played the slow burn. Sorkin prefers his drama big and loud while Simon prefers his gritty and close to the vest. That said, Aaron Sorkin is a GREAT writer. He just seems to be better suited for high concept drama and, more particularly, movies (which is where he has made his bigger splash anyway outside of The West Wing). And all of these series suffer some from being taken out of their generational context. It's amazing that they hold up as well as they do (echoing the previous thoughts on The Sopranos here.)

Again, I am only 7 episodes in, but McNulty at this point is a Mary Sue. He is the only cop in Baltimore who knew anything about the Barksdales. That just seems off, and very Jack Ryanish. Now he may prove less omniscient.

The commanders not caring in the least comes out of every police and war movie. At this point, we could use someone up the chain with at least a vague sense of duty. The show is good, maybe when I reach McNulty being wrong I will even like it more.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Not what I was saying. The plight and prospects of people in such circumstances is worse than 30, 40 or more years ago.

Why? We’ve made no progress in the last 40 years?

 

[IUCrazy2]

I'm fascinated by this compulsion we generally have to say, "It's not race, it's X." Culture. Social status. Money. Whatever. First of all, I'm not sure race can always be so neatly cut out of it. I don't see how you can have a problem with, say, "urban youth culture" without having strong racial undertones to that.

But second of all, I'm not sure it really paints society in any better of a light. If we care about Missing Girl A more than Missing Girl B simply because A is a famous celebrity and B is a nobody, is that really any better than doing so because A is white and B is black? It feels like we get overly defensive about race, lest we be accused of being secret racists, but our defensiveness doesn't necessarily make us look any better than secret racists, anyway.

And why would people be defensive about race? The answer to that question is going to take quite a bit of self reflection on the part of many posters here. Many.

 

[IUCrazy2]

What Aloha and I were debating just now is completely unrelated to what you just wrote. Aloha seems to think he had it just as hard as a lot of people nowadays or people portrayed in The Wire, hence they have just the same chances to be successful in life. I find that dubious in many ways and on many levels and based on a drastically over-simplified political philosophy.

Hey Aloha, you apparently had a stalker growing up. This guy seems to know the ins and outs of your childhood better than you...

 

[iu_a_att]

And why would people be defensive about race? The answer to that question is going to take quite a bit of self reflection on the part of many posters here. Many.

Let me start with some self-reflection. I own a house that very likely sits on land taken at gunpoint from Native Americans in the last century or two. The land ripoff was endorsed by our government so everything is entirely legal but it was as clear an example of ethnic cleansing as any we have ever seen. The area I live in was subject to racial covenants that blocked African Americans from buying property and there were government programs to redline certain areas like the one I live in that made sure African Americans couldn't get loans to buy property. For generations and up to the present schools have been set up in my area so the richer white areas have per student expenditures on education many times greater than those of African Americans. Discrimination in housing, education, health-care and employment...government sanctioned theft from Native Americans and African Americans. If ever some kind of real justice system were to be created my wealth might be challenged as the fruits of that theft. Any suggestion that we take any steps towards such a system of justice make me feel worried about securing my wealth and position--things I quite like. I am defensive because I understand that shifting demographics increase the likelihood of some kind of accounting that I don't want. I am defensive so I tell others that I have played by the rules and broken no laws. I tell others that everything I have is the result of my hard work alone and that any wrong doing was done by others so I cannot be held accountable. I protest, but not too hard, those who are working overtime to ensure that no such accounting will ever take place by the continued disenfranchisement of those who might have a claim on me. In sum, I am defensive because I know I am vulnerable, I am defensive because deep down I know that my critics have a point.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Again, I am only 7 episodes in, but McNulty at this point is a Mary Sue. He is the only cop in Baltimore who knew anything about the Barksdales. That just seems off, and very Jack Ryanish. Now he may prove less omniscient.

The commanders not caring in the least comes out of every police and war movie. At this point, we could use someone up the chain with at least a vague sense of duty. The show is good, maybe when I reach McNulty being wrong I will even like it more.

The commanders do definitely care and and have a sense of duty later on, at least most of them. McNulty does get it right most of the time, you're correct about that. But he screws up in a million ways. His character is based on being a specially gifted "good police" and being arrogant about it, which often times gets him in trouble. Report back when you've finished first season. It's about to get intense.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Let me start with some self-reflection. I own a house that very likely sits on land taken at gunpoint from Native Americans in the last century or two. The land ripoff was endorsed by our government so everything is entirely legal but it was as clear an example of ethnic cleansing as any we have ever seen. The area I live in was subject to racial covenants that blocked African Americans from buying property and there were government programs to redline certain areas like the one I live in that made sure African Americans couldn't get loans to buy property. For generations and up to the present schools have been set up in my area so the richer white areas have per student expenditures on education many times greater than those of African Americans. Discrimination in housing, education, health-care and employment...government sanctioned theft from Native Americans and African Americans. If ever some kind of real justice system were to be created my wealth might be challenged as the fruits of that theft. Any suggestion that we take any steps towards such a system of justice make me feel worried about securing my wealth and position--things I quite like. I am defensive because I understand that shifting demographics increase the likelihood of some kind of accounting that I don't want. I am defensive so I tell others that I have played by the rules and broken no laws. I tell others that everything I have is the result of my hard work alone and that any wrong doing was done by others so I cannot be held accountable. I protest, but not too hard, those who are working overtime to ensure that no such accounting will ever take place by the continued disenfranchisement of those who might have a claim on me. In sum, I am defensive because I know I am vulnerable, I am defensive because deep down I know that my critics have a point.

Bunch of stuff in there to disagree with.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Let me start with some self-reflection. I own a house that very likely sits on land taken at gunpoint from Native Americans in the last century or two. The land ripoff was endorsed by our government so everything is entirely legal but it was as clear an example of ethnic cleansing as any we have ever seen. The area I live in was subject to racial covenants that blocked African Americans from buying property and there were government programs to redline certain areas like the one I live in that made sure African Americans couldn't get loans to buy property. For generations and up to the present schools have been set up in my area so the richer white areas have per student expenditures on education many times greater than those of African Americans. Discrimination in housing, education, health-care and employment...government sanctioned theft from Native Americans and African Americans. If ever some kind of real justice system were to be created my wealth might be challenged as the fruits of that theft. Any suggestion that we take any steps towards such a system of justice make me feel worried about securing my wealth and position--things I quite like. I am defensive because I understand that shifting demographics increase the likelihood of some kind of accounting that I don't want. I am defensive so I tell others that I have played by the rules and broken no laws. I tell others that everything I have is the result of my hard work alone and that any wrong doing was done by others so I cannot be held accountable. I protest, but not too hard, those who are working overtime to ensure that no such accounting will ever take place by the continued disenfranchisement of those who might have a claim on me. In sum, I am defensive because I know I am vulnerable, I am defensive because deep down I know that my critics have a point.

Sounds like you have personal demons to deal with.

 

[iu_a_att]

Bunch of stuff in there to disagree with.

I tried your recommendation of self-reflection and I found it helpful. I look behind me and I see (metaphorically) a quite long shadow. That shadow is, at least partly, mine..
edited to add more on the idea of the shadow from Jung. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)

Carl Jung stated the shadow to be the unknown dark side of the personality.[4][5] According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to psychological projection, in which a perceived personal inferiority is recognized as a perceived moral deficiency in someone else. Jung writes that if these projections remain hidden, "The projection-making factor (the Shadow archetype) then has a free hand and can realize its object—if it has one—or bring about some other situation characteristic of its power."[6] These projections insulate and harm individuals by acting as a constantly thickening veil of illusion between the ego and the real world.

From one perspective, "the shadow...is roughly equivalent to the whole of the Freudian unconscious";[7] and Jung himself asserted that "the result of the Freudian method of elucidation is a minute elaboration of man's shadow-side unexampled in any previous age".[8]

Kaufman wrote that "in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity";[9] so that for some, it may be, "the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow... represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar".[10]​

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

That's very funny, and sadly also a bit accurate. Sometimes though I think it's less about race that it is about social status, or class. We tend to identify more closely with folks like ourselves. If I see a news story about someone killed in a carjacking at a gas station, I admit my reaction would probably be different for an unemployed white high school dropout on the SE part of town at 3 AM, than it would a 25 year old mom at the BP in Aboite at 3 PM. One hits home. The other does not.

School shootings hit home with most everyone. Gang violence in Chicago simply doesn't.

Which is why I say this is a cultural problem. People can relate to the Dylan Roof church shooting and thus, feel far more sympathy and empathy. Why? Because of the nature in which it happened and context of the situation (even excluding racism).

I would identify far more with a neighbor of any race or ethnic background that shares similar values than I would someone of the same race that lives with a much different set of them.

 

[iu_a_att]

Sounds like you have personal demons to deal with.

Some are personal and others collective.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

The answer to that question is going to take quite a bit of self reflection on the part of many posters here.

I agree with what you typed here, although I strongly suspect I disagree with what you meant by it.

 

[twenty02]

1sr, McNulty appars written as Simon. When writers do that, characters are limited. Biggest example, Jack Ryan was Tom Clancy's alter ego.

We have a cop, with s heart of gold who is divorced because he could not help but put his job 1st. Oh, he Irish. Right out of central casting.

We have the lesbian who has to try harder. Prediction, her relationship will fail because she will pit her job first.

But even more a complaint is the leadership. So far, all are totally incompetent. Baltimore seems to have James Bond's "Q" in an FBI agent that hands them gadgets as needed.

I still like the show. I think the best writer for tv was Sorkin, I just don't think McNulty, we Simon, is quite that good. He's good, better than most. I'm just not retiring his jersey yet (and I am only 7 episodes or so in).

In many ways the show moves way beyond the cops in future seasons....they are really only the main focus in the 1st season....though they never go away. And yeah...the PD being rather incompetent (or overwhelmed) is part of it.

Simon was a newspaper guy....and you'll see that in the last season (the weakest, by far).

2nd season was by far my favorite. But you'll like the later seasons as they focus more on city govt.

It's also overall kind of a difficult show to watch...and took me 3 or 4 tries to kind of get into it originally. And how they totally introduce a new cast in S2 threw me off. But was certainly worth staying with.

 

[iuwclurker1]

Why? We’ve made no progress in the last 40 years?

The overall economic situation has gotten worse, especially for people coming from the bottom. That was my emphasis. The circumstances. Yes, any one individual can succeed. What about the broad swath of people coming up? That's the real problem. That's what's represented by The Wire, in part. You're an anecdotal success.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I agree with what you typed here, although I strongly suspect I disagree with what you meant by it.

Lol. Probably right about that.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

overall economic situation has gotten worse

It has? Poverty statistics are broadly flat over the past 40 years.

But, black poverty rates have actually improved over that same span, despite what you may have inferred from The Wire.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It has? Poverty statistics are broadly flat over the past 40 years.

But, black poverty rates have actually improved over that same span, despite what you may have inferred from The Wire.

I think the point is that by putting all the poor into the same area, we have made a problem worse. Growing up relatively poor in a small Indiana town, I could see how the other half lived. Now we have these vast deserts of poverty in urban areas. For people who live there, even grocery stores are hard to come by. So even healthy eating is more difficult, let alone jobs. I think that is the point to The Wire analogy. It is also true in very small towns in coal country. People do not see a way out, lose hope, turn to drugs. Sadly providing drugs is the one area of economic growth in these areas.

 

[iu_a_att]

It has? Poverty statistics are broadly flat over the past 40 years.

Great use of data. Thanks. You know what really worked? Johnson's war on poverty. Lincoln, FDR and Johnson arguably the presidents who had the greatest positive impact on our country.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

The overall economic situation has gotten worse, especially for people coming from the bottom. That was my emphasis. The circumstances. Yes, any one individual can succeed. What about the broad swath of people coming up? That's the real problem. That's what's represented by The Wire, in part. You're an anecdotal success.

Is it worse? I think the economy is much better now than in the 70s and early 80s when I emerged from poverty. Incidentally, my two sisters also have done very well, so it’s not just me. The wealthiest one of us is my sister that didn’t go to college. She and her husband, also not raised in a wealthy family, turned out to be very good at business.

We’re all shaped by our life experience and mine tells me that people can get ahead in life and improve their economic situations through hard work and perseverance.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Great use of data. Thanks. You know what really worked? Johnson's war on poverty. Lincoln, FDR and Johnson arguably the presidents who had the greatest positive impact on our country.

I'm not going to get hijack this thread with a discussion of Presidential assessment, but I do think LBJ's intentions were good and he gets too much criticism.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I think the point is that by putting all the poor into the same area, we have made a problem worse. Growing up relatively poor in a small Indiana town, I could see how the other half lived. Now we have these vast deserts of poverty in urban areas. For people who live there, even grocery stores are hard to come by. So even healthy eating is more difficult, let alone jobs. I think that is the point to The Wire analogy. It is also true in very small towns in coal country. People do not see a way out, lose hope, turn to drugs. Sadly providing drugs is the one area of economic growth in these areas.

Did we really "put" anyone anywhere? Isn't the point that people concentrate with people that they aspire to live with (e.g., people move to the suburbs to improve the quality of their kids' schools, move to safer areas with lower crime rates, etc.)?

What was your take on the Hamsterdam experiment?

 

[zeke4ahs]

In many ways the show moves way beyond the cops in future seasons....they are really only the main focus in the 1st season....though they never go away. And yeah...the PD being rather incompetent (or overwhelmed) is part of it.

Simon was a newspaper guy....and you'll see that in the last season (the weakest, by far).

2nd season was by far my favorite. But you'll like the later seasons as they focus more on city govt.

It's also overall kind of a difficult show to watch...and took me 3 or 4 tries to kind of get into it originally. And how they totally introduce a new cast in S2 threw me off. But was certainly worth staying with.

I was mad the first couple episodes of season 2. But then I got into it. I think that season helped me understand blue collar families that have always worked in the same industry, made a good living, and assumed it was always going to be that way, better than any book or article I've read on the subject. Again, required viewing. I've heard lots of people say it took them awhile to get into it. But I was hooked from McNulty's conversation about Snot Boogie stealing the money every time. Got to, this America, man. Season 4?is my favorite, but Season 3 Middle Ground is the best hour of television I've ever seen.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Did we really "put" anyone anywhere? Isn't the point that people concentrate with people that they aspire to live with (e.g., people move to the suburbs to improve the quality of their kids' schools, move to safer areas with lower crime rates, etc.)?

What was your take on the Hamsterdam experiment?

He's not there yet. Hamsterdam made me think and it made sense, even though you knew it couldn't last.

 

[twenty02]

I was mad the first couple episodes of season 2. But then I got into it. I think that season helped me understand blue collar families that have always worked in the same industry, made a good living, and assumed it was always going to be that way, better than any book or article I've read on the subject. Again, required viewing. I've heard lots of people say it took them awhile to get into it. But I was hooked from McNulty's conversation about Snot Boogie stealing the money every time. Got to, this America, man. Season 4?is my favorite, but Season 3 Middle Ground is the best hour of television I've ever seen.

Yes, when S2 started, it was definitely a "WTF is this?"....being all new characters, etc...

 

[twenty02]

Did we really "put" anyone anywhere? Isn't the point that people concentrate with people that they aspire to live with (e.g., people move to the suburbs to improve the quality of their kids' schools, move to safer areas with lower crime rates, etc.)?

What was your take on the Hamsterdam experiment?

We did at one time...with public housing projects....which I think was one of the biggest govt/public policies failures imaginable.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

He's not there yet. Hamsterdam made me think and it made sense, even though you knew it couldn't last.

Crap, I've said too much.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Yes, when S2 started, it was definitely a "WTF is this?"....being all new characters, etc...

Right from the opening theme. WTF!?!?!?!? Of course it turned out they re-did the opening theme every season but that first transition was neck snap. I really liked season two.

 

[twenty02]

Right from the opening theme. WTF!?!?!?!? Of course it turned out they re-did the opening theme every season but that first transition was neck snap. I really liked season two.

Yeah I recall having a discussion once which version of the opening theme was best.

I really liked the S5 version, with Steve Earle. The original and S2 were good too. S4 version was awful.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Did we really "put" anyone anywhere? Isn't the point that people concentrate with people that they aspire to live with (e.g., people move to the suburbs to improve the quality of their kids' schools, move to safer areas with lower crime rates, etc.)?

What was your take on the Hamsterdam experiment?

We do put people somewhere, we just call it government housing. In smaller towns, the distance between people living in poverty and potential employers (or even grocery stores) is not so great. Heck, in my youth I could easily walk to Sope's house to see how the other half lived. That has become difficult in bigger cities. And I get your point, my oldest and her partner were looking at this app that lists the most common questions in your neighborhood and in their Indy east side neighborhood it is things like "did anyone else hear gunshots last night". So they have decided to give up and move. I get that. But pretty much everything inside 465 is becoming that way. It becomes harder and harder for the people who are dirt poor but aspire to more to reach that aspiration.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Right from the opening theme. WTF!?!?!?!? Of course it turned out they re-did the opening theme every season but that first transition was neck snap. I really liked season two.

At least they brought back the regular characters unlike True Detective. That makes it interesting, but kind of isolated.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

We did at one time...with public housing projects....which I think was one of the biggest govt/public policies failures imaginable.

We still do, we just call it section 8. We eliminated the big Cabrini Green type disaster areas, but it is still true that section 8 complexes tend to be in the same area of town.

 

[iu_a_att]

We’re all shaped by our life experience and mine tells me that people can get ahead in life and improve their economic situations through hard work and perseverance.

There is life experience and then there is evidence.