I guess that's what I have a hard time accepting but I understand what you're saying. To me it's either a human or it's not. That's like saying a little bit pregnant.
A question for board liberals and Biden voters
- Thread starter snarlcakes
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I can't possibly imagine. So glad I never got involved in that (closest I got was helping an estate settle a potential wrongful death claim).
Consider property. In everyday life, ownership is pretty simple. Either you own something, or you don't. But legally, it's not that simple. Lawyers refer to property ownership as a "bundle of rights." Your interest in property isn't binary, but rather a collection of all sorts of potential property rights you might or might not hold, depending on your particular situation.I guess that's what I have a hard time accepting but I understand what you're saying. To me it's either a human or it's not. That's like saying a little bit pregnant.
You might imagine personhood the same way. In everyday life, we imagine someone is a person or not, a binary proposition. But legally, it's not really that simple. There's a whole bundle of "personhood rights" you might have, depending on your situation. But exactly which parts of personhood you hold could depend on your age, penal status, mental capacity, etc. Traditionally, the unborn did not hold any of these potential rights, and were not considered a person in any sense of the word. In the modern world, we may be seeing more and more of these aspects of personhood shift to the unborn.
Obviously many of us 2020 Biden voters world pick Haley.
If the option is Trump, I'll vote Biden again.
There is nothing more fundamentally dangerous to our country than another Trump administration.
I've been consistent since 2015 with my position, Trump and all his populist Pat Buchanan bullshit will tear this country apart.
If the option is Trump, I'll vote Biden again.
There is nothing more fundamentally dangerous to our country than another Trump administration.
I've been consistent since 2015 with my position, Trump and all his populist Pat Buchanan bullshit will tear this country apart.
Agreed. Just a god-awful person and president.
America's Best and Worst Presidents Ranked
Presidential historians assess the great, the effective and the downright terrible US leaders
www.voanews.com
Those lists are terrible. Washington is 1 and Lincoln is 2. FDR is bottom 5.Agreed. Just a god-awful person and president.
America's Best and Worst Presidents Ranked
Presidential historians assess the great, the effective and the downright terrible US leaders
Biden has been the worst in my lifetime. It’s not even close. Pick and issue and he’s F’d it up.
He is pretty bad. The past 3 years have probably been the worst three years since the 70s (a lot of it self inflicted). Not to mention the lasting effects of a larger government and unprecedented debt levels. We’re going to add close 2.5 trillion of debt in 2023. It’s insanity.
The American dream gone for so many with one president. Draconian Covid bs and progressive give aways. At least carter later became a model human. There’s nothing redeeming about Biden. Nothing. And unlike my conservative brethren I like Obama. He’s incredibly bright, pulled us out of 08, and his inclusion of pre-existing conditions is one of the most tangible accomplishments that millions of Americans feel that I can remember. Life changing.
One nit. Obama didn’t pull us out of anything. He implemented policies that led to the slowest recovery in history.
I have to run. I’m the nice son in law that agreed to eat corn beef and cabbage. You get 3 beers in me and I’ll agree to anything.
The implementation of Obamacare slowed down the recovery (drastically in my opinion). Businesses had to make cuts and pass along costs to consumers and employees. All of those things are going to slow down growth and etc.
It also made health insurance affordable for millions of low wage working stiffs like me. Pror to the ACA, fully 40% of my gross income went toward health insurance for me and the wife. Nothing left for saving or investing or dinners out or much of anything beyond beans & rice, lot rent, and lights. Total fvcking game changer.
You’re welcome. Now that we help cover your health insurance and social security. Is there anything else you need?
No, I'm good. Thanks. Looking forward to my raise next month. That will be much appreciated. Takers gonna take.
I won't dispute that. I wish it hadn't been necessary. But as a result of the ACA, my life and my wife's life have been exponentially better. I know there are many who would have denied us that if they could.
I wasn’t making a moral argument with Murt. My now wife got laid off because of ACA. The reality is there are no free lunches and wealth redistribution takes from some and gives to others.
How much time we should take from some humans to ensure other humans have a higher standard of living isn’t an easy question. Personally, I would prefer to fund healthcare before social security.
Well, that's nice for you. What about my wife having her pension cut by 70% by Obama's PBGC so the GM deal could go through (after the PBGC had claims on Delphi assets for 5 years before 2009 and couldn't collect, so it was holding up the GM restructuring).
We played by the rules, saved money and did without many luxuries so we wouldn't be in the position of needing a government handout for our insurance costs - and both of us had our insurance canceled.
I don't blame you for liking Obamacare, but you gloating about it galls me to no end. You could at least be grateful to the American public, instead of Obama, who was picking winners and losers.
My wife lost her job and insurance in 2008 when the economy collapsed after a bunch of people who couldn't afford a house bought and financed one anyway, made possible in part by government subsidies to homeowners. Parents are subsidized by the childless. Schools are supported by people with no school age children. Oldsters are subsidized by youngsters. And on and on and on. It all depends on your place in the larger society.
Anecdotally insurance costs seem to have exploded as a result of Obama care. But my memory could be wrong. I know I pay a fortune today but as for Obama I really just meant requiring coverage for pre-existing conditions
What gov subsidies to homeowners?? I do t remember that. Not saying not true. I just remember people stating their income and then the robo foreclosures that later followed. I don’t remember anyone getting a break
Gloating? No, I'm just glad we were given the option, and do my best to put a human face on those of us who found it to be a godsend. I'm not sure why you find me giving Obama credit so galling. It wouldn't have happened without him.
You're free to credit whomever you want. it's called buying votes most places, but whatever.
Did ou ever stop to wonder how low your insurance would be if government stayed out of it? Because before the government stepped in, doctors used to make house calls and didn't live in mansions. Where do you think hospitals get the money to build all the new buildings going up these days?
I get that and I don't blame him for taking advantage of it. But I don't see people on welfare bragging about how they're getting rent subsidies, food stamps, section 8 housing, etc.
It used to be people tried to stay off those government programs and certainly didn't broadcast it if they were. Now, people are taking jobs and making just enough to qualify for government aid, even though they could earn more - and I know because I used to employ people who did exactly that.
That, and I'm in a cranky mood today.
The childless are paid back 10 fold. How would society look if there wasn’t any children? Good luck. The childless are the beneficiaries in your example.
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And I would reply that the healthy benefit from the sick being able to access health care.
Mom made house calls, and we lived in a nice home but nothing extravagant or out of the ordinary. (It was a brick farmhouse built in 1820 -- took them 20 years to restore and moderize it piecemeal.) She also lost a lot of patients to cancer and heart disease and any number of other causes that are now easily dealt with if not outright cured. (I distinctly remember her marveling at the new antibiotics coming on line when before all she had at her disposal was penicillin.) That doesn't come without a cost. She also had to deal with patients refusing to go to the hospital for fear of being bankrupted.
I won't argue that to cost of health care isn't out of hand. I'm not going to place the blame wholly on the government getting involved. Canada and western Europe seem to be able to do a pretty good job.
All I've done since I showed up here is try and counter what was the prevailing notion that anyone who benefited from the ACA was a lazy no good unambitious taker who was sucking the government teat, and to explain in concrete, personal terms how that wasn't necessarily the case. I think I might have had a little success with some people. Obviously not the case with many others.
Canada and Europe ride our coattails when it comes to medical advancements.
My uncle also made house calls and lived in a 3 bedroom ranch in Anderson. He was also Chief of Staff at the hospital there.
I think you confuse buildings and rich doctors with medical advancements. Drug companies are responsible for that, mainly. My Uncle worked in Houston where Dr Debakey (SP?) did pioneering heart research. That wasn't driven by government spending.
The profit motive drives medical research in the US - not the government.
The ACA was the classic picking winners and losers. Not unlike most all government programs. You were one of the winners. I was one of the losers. Then we have to address the quality of the coverage. Outside of the pre-existing condition…the overall quality of coverage has deteriorated. It most cases….drastically.
The ACA did away with the shitty policies that didn't cover shit and cost you a fortune if you ever had to use them. It also required coverage for pre-existing. So yes, it was going to be more expensive. But 40 million people have benefited through either enhanced Medicaid or the Marketplace.
This is a good overview (imo):
Topic: Obamacare
Find the most interesting statistics and facts on the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
www.statista.com
I am on my third PA, in four years, for general care right now because regular doctors around here aren't taking new patients. All they do is order tests and tell me the results. Hell, I get the results and I can tell exactly what they tell me. I actually suggest dosages of my current medications and they agree with it! lol
General care really is getting to be a joke. I'd evidently had kidney cancer for 6 or 7 years before it was accidently discovered for another issue.
If that's the case (I'm not sure it is but won't argue the point), it still beats no coverage at all.
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