Hopefully he knows where the 3 point line is.
Woodson: I've learned you win with good guard play and I'm trying to build IU to play like my Knicks teams
- Thread starter BradStevens
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Anyone can easily watch film of these guys playing high level D1 ball — they’re very good and hardly a mystery to figure out.
Bingo.
The accolades and film on Rice speak for themselves. Same with Carlyle who had some elite performances against very good teams last year. Back court has been upgraded immensely and I don’t need Gary Parrish or whoever at CBS to tell me otherwise.
Actually finally did just that yesterday. Really like Rice... very fast with the ball. Thought Carlyle looked like he puts up a lot of off balance shots but obviously can score and made some impressive passes. Ballo is a beast. I don't ever remember us having a physical intimidating presence like him (I don't remember Big George in an IU uni, but I think it would go back that far). Be only fair if we get to hear the PUkes crying about how he gets away with so much physical contact and drawing fouls on their freshman center, after watching Edey-ball the last couple of years.
Been saying this for 2 months. They can't get their emotions out of their analytics. It makes for dumb comments. It is entertaining though.
Agreed. Did those teams shoot the 3? He was Knicks HC in 2012-14 and the game has changed a lot since then.
Personally, I care more about how those systems run--off ball movement (both it happening and what it is designed to lead to), screening, and concepts (both on offense and defense) than the number of threes they shot. Getting open shots is the goal, yes? I've seen tape of the Knicks during Woody's tenure, and it looks a lot like what we've seen so far from his teams here. Others have broken it down better than I can do here.
But regarding the actual rates, his 12-13 team shot 3s 24% of the time; his 23-24 IU team shot them 28% of the time. By comparison, UConn this year, 40% of UConn's shot attempts were 3s and Purdue, with Edey, were at 34%.
To give a little more context, that 24% of the time in 12-13,was 2nd in the league I believe(top 5 at least). And seeing that IU was ahead of that #,with very limited shooting ability,there's 0 reason to not believe that # will go up with better guard play(creating) and shooting ability,which is vastly improved as a whole.
Yes, we have depth and talent at every position. Many on here don't need to have an official practice to acknowledge that. Whether or not the pieces fit together, we'll see. But, with our depth and multitude of potential lineups, overwhelmingly strong odds suggest that there are combinations that will work well together.
To be fair, he said “roster-building transgressions”.
My thoughts exactly... That quote doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in Mike... 🙄
That's fair. I guess roster building and actual coaching are two different animals.
They're very much connected at the college level...which is the level you have the most control over who you'll end up coaching every season. Picking guys that fit your desired style, and that are guys you think will fit in well with your team, and respond well to your coaching, is an early function of coaching every season...in my opinion.
It seems, to me, that this part of coaching Woodson might have learned some lessons from his first few seasons, and he did a much better job of this past offseason.
NOW...conditioning, practice plans, style, motivation, game coaching...that's what remains to be seen. But I think Woodson has already improved his "coaching" by assembling the roster he did. All other things equal, we'll be better than we were last year...which means we should be an NCAA team, without really any improvements by Woody in areas outside roster construction.
I actually got the stats wrong before. Knicks 3's in 12-13 accounted for 35% of their shots; in 13-14 it was 30%. I calculated it before but must have been looking at the wrong column. Sorry about that.
I think the rate, not the rank in the league, is the most important, by the way. If you're #1 in the league, but the entire league isn't shooting threes (or whatever the stat is), it would be irrelevant towards your analysis of whether the system is designed to do what you want it to do.
It's been discussed before, but IF (and yes, this is the big "if" that might not be true) Woodson really wants his Hoosier teams to play the same system/look like his Knicks teams, then it appears we've already achieved that per this video (SIAP):
This is pretty much exactly how he coached his first two teams. I do think he added some new elements last year, that helped to improve the off the ball movement...some... But some of my biggest fears with Coach Woodson are that these philosophies are baked in to his coaching beliefs, and as a result, IU will never have a flowing, movement based, dynamic offense while he's the coach.
I guess we'll see this next season. He's set the roster up in a way that he really could change some of these philosophies. But we also could still see a lot of isolated plays and movement for guys like Reneau and Mack...with his belief that Rice, Carlyle, Ballo, Tucker, Goode...will be better suited to make individual plays on their own when needed. That's obviously what his belief and hope was for X his entire time at IU.
There are so many parallels between his time with the Knicks and now. There is some possibility that if you keep the same approach over a long enough time period then one time you will have success. IU just needs to keep writing his checks and we will see if it happens before he retires.
Yes, it appears to be really useless and boring to keep bringing up our previous backcourt deficiencies. Just plain old beat to death at this point. We should be praising the remarkable job he did this off-season creating what appears to a very deep and talented roster that should compete at a very high level. You can't win big without talent. Can't wait to see him take it to another level.
Maybe, but unfortunately when you have a lot of resources and finish with a NET ranking of #98, that’s going to create a lot of concern regardless of the new roster.
Play well with this talented new group (good recruiting work from staff and donors) and it will go away.
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He doesn't know how to manipulate that rating like the Big 12 did so well last year. It's a stupid metric ...
KenPom isn't perfect, by any means...but its a fairly good predictor nearer the end of the season on what teams have legit chances to make FFs and compete for Nattys. Basically you either need to be truly elite on either offense or defense...top 5 levels elite...or you need to be top 20-30 in both his offense and defense efficiency ratings.
Woody's best team, TJD's senior year, finished the year 28 and 45 respectively offense and defense. They lost in the second round... so he was pushing the line to where it seems many think this next year's team should be, with a couple really good players, and a bunch of other really flawed players. He's proven he can get them close to where IU fans want to be. And this next roster is unquestionably his best, most versatile, and deepest roster.
Hoping that last years performances, across pretty much any rating or measurements, end up being the bad exception to a relatively solid coaching career for Woody at IU.
Obviously wary that we'll ever be "elite" with how Woody coaches...but I do think he can get a team in the next year or two on the doorstep of being FF good...without a huge change or improvement in his own coaching philosophies and/or abilities.
NET isn't created by Kenpom (I think he the OP, has them confused).... it's monkey math with far better metrics already existing and can be manipulated by running up scores.
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No, I know...I didn't word it well...I was just offering KenPom as a different metric that has actually shown in the past that Woody can get close to being where IU fans want the program to be.
I honestly don't think Woody has it in him, to put out a truly elite level team. But he won't need to get a lot better, versus what he's already shown he's capable of, to get IU competing at the top of the B10, and making sweet 16s. This years team will test that theory, obviously.
fwiw - He simply needed to quit letting the scrubs play minutes in buy-in games, at least until he had a 20 pt lead .. that's how you manipulate those metrics other than just winning. He's from the pros where metrics have nothing to do with post season inclusion and where it's just wins. Less likely to be an issue this year with a deeper bench.
Be like the Big 12, Gonzaga etc play short line ups long minutes and blow out the scrub teams.
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If Woody fails to win at an acceptable level with this best roster he’s had, I think the gig is up. The NIL funds will dry up and he’s shown no interest nor ability to recruit the traditional HS kids so program growth unlikely.
I partially agree with you. He will get sacked if he misses the tournament this year. That said, there are some donors who REALLY believe in him. They may continue to throw good money after bad for a while.
If that’s the case (and I believe it’s been proven to be), the metrics suck and need overhauled. If I’m the 9th-11th player on a top level team, I’m a pretty damn good player. But the coach tells me I’m not getting in because we’re only up 15 and we need metrics? Bullcrap!
It's not purely the fault of the metrics, dumb as they are. Like all stats they do exactly what they are intended to do. Which is supply a one line measure for old ass ignorant geezers on the tourney committee. It's the fault of basketball and math ignorant committee members who don't understand either ..
And fwiw our ninth guy was so bad that when he came in for Ware, IU's overall efficiency went from top 20 (up to 3rd) in the nation to 350 +/- ... If those are the numbers being used coaches need to understand how it works also... it's pure foolishness to ignore them. Saying fk that means you end up denying an NIT bid ..
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Talk is cheap. Just win baby! If he doesn’t win big after his billionaire friends gave him enough money to buy a NCAA Champion, they nor Buckner will be able to save him.SIAP
Mike Woodson acknowledges lessons learned when it comes to guard production and depth
Indiana has missed the NCAA Tournament six of the last eight years. Sorry to ruin your day with that reminder. But it’s a fact, and a run of futility that spans three coaches, and has Hoosier…www.thedailyhoosier.com
What a bullshit ignorant narrative ... almost every team in the country had billionaire friends paying for players. That's the new landscape. You guys act like IU was the only one, and spin it just to shit on Woodson, when it's 99% of teams doing the exact same thing.
Go watch Purdue if you want to watch a broke ass second rate program lose this year ..
I’ve already shelled out my money for this year like I have every year for a long time. I plan on being in my seats cheering for IU like every other year. Woodson has no excuses this year.
It’s not bullshit- Woody was a mediocre NBA coach with a losing record and his best to date IU team failed to play to seed. Woody must achieve something in season four with top 5 NIL spend that he’s not achieved yet or he’s gone. Period. Woody stated his goals at opening press conference after being hired: win championships Big Ten or NCAA. If he achieves either one he’s golden if not he isn’t even Tom Crean who is purely mediocre. Being a marginal step up from the worst coach in IU hoops history is not the goal for anyone but Quinn Buckner apparently- let’s let IU hoops be special again please!!
Woodson appears to have used the millions provided by his friends well. Now he has to coach them and win big like UConn, Kansas and other Blue Bloods. Then he has to keep doing it every year.
I’ll be happy to be wrong but I don’t think Woodson has it in him. What he does have is the ability to bully those who think he’s done a bad job. As long as Buckner and the big donors back him, he’s golden.
Edit: Notice I didn’t say anything about keeping our AD happy. Woodson has made it clear to those criticizing him that Dolson has no say in him going or staying.
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You're taking the word of a butthurt douchebag who hasn't been honest in the past as gospel.
This is he said she said bullshit ... nothing more nothing less. People like them who crave attention always cause this teenage drama shit.
I have no idea if it's true and neither do you. Quit being gullible just because you want it to be true. Didn't your mama ever tell you not to spread gossip?
You should listen to the Podcast of the Hoosier Hysterics being shit canned by Woodson.
The person who told me was a professional and he wasn’t being a loudmouth in a group of people. The conversation was private between the two of us.
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