I think IU still makes the Big Dance. Once they do Crean is your coach for at least a couple of years. Of course I agree if Bryant and OG go pro next year's team might not be real good. And for some reason everyone thinks JBJ goes pro too. He can shoot! There's a ton of talent on this current team though. I'm worried about the Purdue game in Bloomington. if Crean wins that one then he gets another resume builder leading to the Big Dance. And then more Crean!!
When the plane lands in Bloomington
- Thread starter cmo1
- Start date
I look forward to that day. I'll be sure to remind you
Just like you thought Latham would get drafted? eek.
As a Purdue grad, I would disagree. The Davis and Sampson fiascos put IU hoops in such a bad place that Crean was the best they could realistically do at the time. His energy, positivity, recruiting skills, and PR ability were perfect for pulling you guys out of the swamp. And he did that thru lots of heavy lifting.
Having said that, I think he's now plateaued and Glass should look to make a move while the roster is still attractive to a Mack or Marshall. But if he fires him this year, he will turn off a lot of candidates for getting rid of a guy who is one year removed from a B1G title.
Nah...those coaches can see just how awful Crean is. They would completely understand.
With each loss he's really pinning himself in a corner. You have to assume that with those 2 big wins, we likely could lose 12 games and still get in over the other teams based on those big wins. We're at 6 losses and typically the B1G tourney provides a loss so we might as well say 7. With 14 regular season games left, 8 of which are on the road and only 5 losses left to keep us from going to the big dance. I don't know. I feel like it's almost a coin toss at this point but there's no way he should make another season if he misses the tourney.
From the people I am around, most all have been behind Crean. Aside from the message board no one I speak to really was for firing him yet no one was sold with certainty that he was a forever coach. The collapse of the program made it a unique situation with patience. This season was one where winning those big games early actually set the bar high for fans and this team (so far) has failed to live up to those expectations. Per say we continue this way, Glass cannot think the program is heading where it should be and not make change. The coach would be a lame duck because the fan base would be against him and there just isn't anything positive about that situation. The players get frustrated by the noise and protecting their coach, Glass is getting the business from everyone outside of the coaching staff. It wouldn't make much business sense at that point. But I will continue to wait it out. The ball is in TC's court.
We must run invastly different circles. With zero hyperbole, I can say I do not know a single IU fan who wants Crean to stay. All actually wish he would have been fired years ago.
Totally agree. This is the problem with iu admin and some of the fans.
ha Obviously we do. Some have the mentality of a quick trigger. Others are more diligent. To each their own.
Some understand bball and have been watching the same crap for 9 years and refuse to settle mediocrity. Others can't see the big picture and have a defeatist mentality. To each their own.
You should spend more time with the diligent ones (that goes for football, too). Lol
Not sure where this opinion of Glass comes from, buts not accurate at all.
And if you think Crean is untouchable...just look what happened to the FB coach Wilson. Crean has not yet burned his bridge with IU yet...the fans yes...but its burning. The BOT and Glass are not blind, deaf, and dumb. But their not kneejerk either.
Brad Stevens isnt coming to the rescue. Sooooo...exactly who could we hire as an upgrade? Until there is one, Crean will remain. No Allen, no fired Wilson. But its coming...eventually.
This is 100% true. I would bet guys like Mack or Holtmann would love to take on the challenge/salary. Both coaches already recruit Indiana better, and would go in thinking their jobs could get easier. The IU program is a sleeping giant. It will be easy to reel in a good coach. The funniest part of this is that they would be a point guard away from having a team at the top of the league, and that's even if one or two guys bail.Nah...those coaches can see just how awful Crean is. They would completely understand.
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Quick trigger?
Most of my friends started to question Creans coaching ability years ago.
The under achievement in year 3, the constant high turnover rate, the lack of defense, the lack of adjustments during a game, questionable subbing patterns, the constant playing of walk-ons, the over recruiting and running players off, allowing the drug culture to come back into the program.
The desire to want to move on from Crean didn't happen overnight.
The time will come when it will be necessary to extend Crean's contract, or go in another direction. Underachieving this year and the potential to being worse next year should be more than enough to make it clear the program needs a change.
I know one trustee that admits yelling at the TV about Crean's sustitutions like any fan would do. He also brags about graduation rates, B1G titles, and Sweet 16 appearances. I suspect he is disappointed like we are. The end of the 17'-18' season should be enough for anyone. Crean isn't going to change into a coach serious about defense and taking care of the ball.
Right, by quick trigger I am referring to those that decided long ago that they didn't like him.
Interesting that you come out of the woodwork to proclaim this NOW. lol Who are you again?
Nah...those coaches can see just how awful Crean is. They would completely understand.
I was gonna respond the exact same thing . . . well said.
I would love if BS came to IU. But he isn't the only choice we have. Gregg Marshall could do special things at a school with IU's pedigree and resources.
Many people could see quite some time ago that his coaching style wasn't likely to work at IU.
Right, and then he went on to win 2 B1G titles in 4 years. So that proved that wrong. The issue is not being able to sustain and improve upon that and THAT is where the issue lies. If Crean won the B1G and gave Indiana an opportunity to do things in the tourney, he wouldn't be on a scolding hot seat.
You keep saying this......and never mention the 8th and 7th place finish in between those titles and that he has finished higher than 5th 2 times in 8 years.
Think about that for a second.....2 times in 8 years IU has finished higher than 5th. I'm not asking for final fours every year....but my god thats terrible because he isn't finishing higher than 5th this year.
Also, the uneven B10 schedule has been around for TWO years and that played a big role in IU's B10 run last year.
Crean was brought in to rebuild after Sampson.....he did that. He was not brought in to bring IU back to the glory days because he can't. At this point, Crean has overstayed what he was brought in for. Its not his fault, even Mike Davis found success at IU....its that kind of program. But just like Davis, its just best for everyone to just move on.
You missed the word "consistently" in your "analysis". If you knew basketball and the way Crean coaches and recruits, where IU resides today is of no surprise. Sorry you're just now considering what most of us have known for some time.
i kinda agree but the years between is why he hasn't been on solid ground despite those two titles. They bookend poop. lol. Lows are too low and highs ain't high enough. It's a like a country love song written about our coach.
Here is where you're missing the boat. You - and others - want to contend that "we've won 2 B1G titles in the last four years", and most of the time that would indicate we have a team capable of making a serious run in the NCAA Tournament.
But last year was a serious exception. It just was. We had almost everything go right for us: Weak Conference (5th best) and a favorable schedule. The 1st rd flameout in the BTT to a Michigan team we torched at Crisler Arena should have been telling.
In 9 years, Crean has had ONE team you could truly say was a title contender: 2013. That was primarily due to having Cody, and recruiting top talent like him has been non-existent the last 4 years. Crean's presence in the recruiting world, along with his system (which is party responsible for the recruiting woes) doesn't provide any indication that he can make IU a national title contender on a consistent basis.
Now if you disagree, fine - but please explain how (in your opinion) Crean is going to accomplish it? Please be specific.
You keep including years of rebuild which I won't do. So continue placing that in there but it does nothing to prove your opinion right. I agree that if he comes up short this year he should be let go so counting this year again is worthless.
What I expected after the rebuild was done was then to start judging him with a clean slate. He did well and we had a mass exodus that isn't likely to happen to most teams. I understood the down year. Didn't like it but understood. Wasn't thrilled about the following season but saw considerable progress. Then we won the B1G again. Does that mean we are back to being blue bloods? No but it was enough to allow for another season to show continual progression. If it doesn't happen, then it's time to move on.
Tas, you haven't read what I said. If he doesn't do MORE than what he did last year, I agree 100% with letting him go. I have said this since we lost to UNC in last years tournament. I expect the team to improve year after year unless we have a complete mass exodus resulting in a youth movement. That's what happened after that 2013 year which is why he was given some slack. We're definitely at a point now where he (so far) hasn't given us much of a reason to believe that he is capable of continuing to grow and improve the team. We do ourselves no good firing him at mid-season so I am fully on board with riding this year out.
We lost 4 1000 point scorers - but had two McDonald AA and 7 top 50 players on that team. We had all the talent to finish AT LEAST in the top 4 of the conference. Eighth? You REALLY understood EIGHTH?
It's not just that they lost, but HOW they lost. Same issues as today: too many TO's, poor defense. The players aren't the same as 2014, so what is the common denominator?
I agree Marshall has to be the choice. People was questioning him to see what they would be like this year after losing so much but they are 14-3 and will be winning their conference once again.
Unless there is a total flameout that would involve player misbehavior, I agree whatever action happens should wait until the season's end.
I guess I just have a different perspective and have different expectations of what CTC can accomplish here because of how I know he's viewed throughout the state by a significant amount of people. If I though he had a chance at all of getting top talent in the future, I might feel different. But it ain't happening, folks.
Tas, why do you keep talking about todays team. We are in agreement about todays team. We are also in agreement about being disappointed. Its like you're reading my post and the agreeing with me but typing it in a way that makes it sound like I said something contradictory to what you're saying. I was disappointing with 2013-14 season. Show me where I said I wasnt? I don't look at "top 150" players and think we should be a top 8 team. Mickey D players is a big deal but even they were young and the rest of the cupboard was bare. It's like Alford having 6 of them last year and then coming back this year and doing what he is. He was essentially given that year but no one has ever said they were satisfied with that season. Let's not paint it that way.
Why?
Because the problems we are having today isn't about the players - it's about the system this program runs. We lose games like last night the same way we did in 2013-14.
To overcome the deficiencies in running the style Crean favors, you have to have great playmakers (not specifically PG's, either). Recruiting has completely fallen off the map in getting those types of players. We've got good kids and I love 'em to death, but we don't have an impact player on this team - which is why we struggle in games that we've lost (like last night). We don't have a Yogi (or even a Troy) to hide the issues that plague us from our style of play.
EDIT: I went back and looked at 2013-14. Here are some examples of how we performed in the 4 Key Stats that I had explained in the Romeo Langford ... thread: FG attempts, eff FG %, FT attempts and FT %.
Formatted: FGA / effFG % / FTA / FT% (OR / TO)
SYRACUSE 69, IU 52
INDIANA 41 / 41.4 / 24 / 75.0 (12 / 16)
SYRACUSE 47 / 57.4 / 25 / 60.0 (11 / 11)
NOTRE DAME 79, IU 72
INDIANA 63 / 46.8 / 16 / 81.3 (13 / 13)
NOTRE DAME 54 / 51.8 / 30 / 76.7 (7 / 11)
And look how we won against #10 Michigan:
IU 63, MICHIGAN 52
MICHIGAN 45 / 43.3 / 18 / 72.2 (8 / 10)
INDIANA 43 / 62.7 / 15 / 60.0 (9 / 13)
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Its simple.....how many good years has Crean had and what is the chance of good years in the future?
If IU paid the head basketball coach the same as Notre Dame, I would be fine with Mike Brey results. As would the rest of the fan base. And honestly, Mike Brey has been a better coach than Crean during this "magical" 2 B10 titles and 3 Sweet 16s in 5 years.
But, this isn't Notre Dame and the expectations are different as reflected in being the 9th highest paid coach in the country.
It doesn't matter what years you or I count or not.....how many have met expectations? 3? 2? 1? 0? Because I know this year has not and there are more that haven't than have.
Its time.....no hard feelings....
Some call it having playmakers, others call it hero ball. I am agreeing with you.
When did I ever claim this? The only time I've mentioned Latham's name on here was less than a week ago when I called you out for being wrong on Latham.
I never said I was right on him or that I knew he would be as good as he is, I simply pointed out that you were very wrong on him and your ego was too big to admit that.
100% serious question - are you related to Tom Crean in any way? Are you a member of the athletic department? Maybe a manager or intern? Please tell the truth.
The bottom line is coaches don't get 10 years to succeed at elite programs. 10 years is an eternity for college coaches to stay at the same place. Most get 4-5 to prove themselves. Crean is in his 9th year now. This cat isn't going back in the bag.
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