What about Pence
- Thread starter hoot1
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He's a decent, honest, principled guy. Very thoughtful and articulate. A nice guy, basically.
He's also boring and (outwardly at least) emotionless as possible, which doesn't really inspire people as a leader.
I don't much care for the fact that his rigid religious views guide every aspect of his politics. I wish the interviews would have asked him more about gay marriage, interracial marriage, etc., since my impression is that on social issues he would really turn off the masses in any state that is the least bit purple. He's more rigid/right wing than Trump or DeSantis, but seemingly without the mean streak, vindictiveness, and look at me / me-first mindset.
Would I prefer him over Trump or DeSantis? Sure. Would I vote for him? Not likely.
He's also boring and (outwardly at least) emotionless as possible, which doesn't really inspire people as a leader.
I don't much care for the fact that his rigid religious views guide every aspect of his politics. I wish the interviews would have asked him more about gay marriage, interracial marriage, etc., since my impression is that on social issues he would really turn off the masses in any state that is the least bit purple. He's more rigid/right wing than Trump or DeSantis, but seemingly without the mean streak, vindictiveness, and look at me / me-first mindset.
Would I prefer him over Trump or DeSantis? Sure. Would I vote for him? Not likely.
Shooter, could you elaborate on the kind of emotions which a leader must exhibit to inspire you ?
I disagree with your assessment of Pence. I think he fits the mold of so many evangelical Christians - greedy opportunists who are subversive and never say the quiet part of their ambition out loud, which is to make the US a Christian nationalist country.
I do agree that on the social issues he's highly unpopular. If he ever actually did throw his hat in the ring for the GOP nomination, he'd have to answer hard questions about that - I think he'd bow out fairly early.
I also think he's a coward. Coming out against Trump now - when he's trying to sell his book - is such BS. I've seen some of his interviews lately where he's putting out a lot of bravado about putting his finger in the chest of a secret serviceman who wanted to take him away from the Capitol - props for him for doing the bare minimum of upholding the law on January 6 I guess. That said, if he actually was angry about Trump putting his life and the lives of his family in danger, it seems odd to me that he's only saying that now when he has a book to sell.
Personally I am not one that is moved at all by fire-and-brimstone emotionalism. I actually prefer cool-headedness. I think I am the exception, though.
The GOP base, and maybe even most of the electorate, seems to like more colorful characters who inspire you not just by their thoughts but by their passion, even if childlike at times. GWB was a bit of a dead fish. Arguably Biden is too. But most who win or even compete are not. You hear more complaints about a candidate being "low energy" than you do about them being dumb as dirt / dumb as Herschel.
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You view everyone and everything through the lens of whether they draw the ire of Trump. Trump likes them? OS hates them. Trump hates them? OS likes them. You are also a liar. Want proof?
If “a mark” means it reveals an obsession with him, I agree. I think he quoted just about every post OS has made recently
A quick search on "Pence" by OS is all it took to reveal the treasure trove of hateful bile he has written about the former VP. Mind your P's and Q's lest I expose your duplicitous ass as well.
Off topic Hoot. I had dinner last month with the individual you and I discussed a while ago. He had been to North Korea 6 times and met with the bad dudes in Sub-Saharan Africa several times plus other baddies in SE Asia. . Lots of interesting experiences I had no idea about. I told him to write a book, he didn’t seem interested. I suggested a ghost writer, I’ll keep working on him. He really has a lot to say.
That is horrendously unfair. Pence has core beliefs that guide him. For you to heap ridicule on one’s core beliefs says a lot about the ugliness of your beliefs. One doesn’t have to agree with Pence, but I think he at least is entitled to respect having never given us a reason to think otherwise.
His VP job performance I think has been pretty good. He deserves props for his work on the Covid task force and for his convictions about his J6 duties in the face of substantial Trump pressure and even what he saw as physical danger.
Pence is not my first choice, but I think he would be a very competent and credible POTUS.
Oh, what is a “Christian Nationalist” country? I think you are just stringing a couple of favorite liberal pejoratives together thinking you have said something important.
It's not unfair to Pence at all. Where were his core Christian beliefs when he saddled up with Mr. "Grab 'em by the p*ssy?" Pence isn't naive. He's an opportunist who will publicly extol Christian values when it wouldn't get in the way of his political aspiration. Now he's more than happy to lift his 'core beliefs' up again now that he's on his book promo tour.
And I only wish I did make up the idea of Christian nationalism. Google it and see if it's a thing (spoiler alert, it is).
his neck looks like a vagina, when he was on CBS with Nora o Donnel the other day it was very distracting. not trying to be funny look up the interview. maybe his tie was too tight.
Trump emasculated him, neutered him, humiliated him. He's grasping at anything that might allow him to reclaim a little bit of dignity. He's a tragic, pitiful figure, one who traded his good name for a chance to show people he really was someone to be taken seriously.
I dont see anything wrong with Pence trying to be a positive influence in the Trump administration. And I think he was.
You still haven’t said what Cristian Nationalism is and why it is bad. I think there is a lot of Christian beliefs imbedded in our government and culture, and that is a good thing. Those beliefs certainly are not unique to Christianity, but those who did that were largely Christians.
Oh bullshit mark. You got a Trump node in your brain. Trump doesn’t have the ability to emasculate, neuter, or humiliate anyone outside of those who really are the cultists, and cultists are damn few. In fact you even believing Trump can do that puts you right there with the cultists. You and Ohio are obsessed with people. This is not about people. It’s about the effects of ideas and concepts.
To be clear, I'm not in favor of any fill-in-the-blank-religion nationalism as a political platform.
I think it's a dangerous, slippery slope. As brought up by prominent members of the Republican party, it's essentially stripping away the separation of church and state. That's a feature of it, not a bug.
It’s not a platform. It’s a system if making decisions by those who must make decisions. It sure beats the hell out of an illusory , aimless, and rudderless mindset that shifts with the wind, or more likely, shifts with the political donor class.
Our large cities becoming drug infested, crime ridden, animalistic shitholes of conditions and human behavior is not because there is too much Christianity, or other religious beliefs.
It is a platform. And it's one that puts us smack dab in the middle of the 'culture wars' we're dealing with now. Allowing one's Christian faith to guide policy most definitely can lead to a fair number of marginalized citizens. If the basic tenets of Christianity guide the ethics of those governing, that'd be great (The Beatitudes, Golden Rule), but that's not how it plays out all the time.
You are partly correct but, no, Pence is not an honest man.
He claimed in that interview that he was "angered" by Trump's statements on Jan. 6. The truth is that Pence has never previously said anything to support his claim about being "angered" by Trump on Jan. 6 until he was trying to profiteer from his new book.
Instead, Pence campaigned for numerous election deniers (i.e. Trump supporters) for the recent midterm elections. It is dishonest for Pence to now claim he was "angered" by Trump on Jan. 6 but nonetheless was eager to campaign for Trump's hardcore base prior to the 2022 midterms.
This is like Tarkanian's famous quote: "the NCAA is so mad at Kentucky they're going to give Cleveland State another year of probation." As Tarkanian pointed out, true anger is directed at the cause of the anger, or it isn't real.
Pence has absolutely no chance of being a viable candidate for anything. Here is what grassroots yard signs in Indiana looked like in 2016 before Trump rescued Pence (by asking him to run for v-p) so that Pence did not lose the 2016 Indiana gubernatorial election:
Good post.You are partly correct but, no, Pence is not an honest man.
He claimed in that interview that he was "angered" by Trump's statements on Jan. 6. The truth is that Pence has never previously said anything to support his claim about being "angered" by Trump on Jan. 6 until he was trying to profiteer from his new book.
Instead, Pence campaigned for numerous election deniers (i.e. Trump supporters) for the recent midterm elections. It is dishonest for Pence to now claim he was "angered" by Trump on Jan. 6 but nonetheless was eager to campaign for Trump's hardcore base prior to the 2022 midterms.
This is like Tarkanian's famous quote: "the NCAA is so mad at Kentucky they're going to give Cleveland State another year of probation." As Tarkanian pointed out, true anger is directed at the cause of the anger, or it isn't real.
Pence has absolutely no chance of being a viable candidate for anything. Here is what grassroots yard signs in Indiana looked like in 2016 before Trump rescued Pence (by asking him to run for v-p) so that Pence did not lose the 2016 Indiana gubernatorial election:
I also feel like saying he was angered by Trump is something his publisher recommended he say.
Had it not been for Dan Quayle's advice to Pence (look it up), I'm not so sure Pence would have done the right thing on Jan. 6.
Pence's understanding of the US Constitution remains quite limited.
(And, Quayle is not really the lightweight his Republican overlords created. Thank God.)
Well, under that theory, his publisher may have only insisted that he must say he was "angered" (a meaningless term) without having the Evangelical Protestant balls to say what it was.
Pence has no chance of making a political impression on the Presidential landscape ever again. Nonetheless, I really hope he announces for President in 2024 to force the GOP to come to grips with at least some of its non-Christian/non-Conservative demons.
That’s telling.
So your beef is really with conservatives who claim some legitimacy through religion. Why don’t you leave religion out of it and just say you don’t like conservatives?
I’ll make you a deal. I’ll admit that when “religious” conservatives give up the ghost and admit they’re hiding behind religion.
I digress it is a post that required some amount of thought. My inner monologue told me something was off about @outside shooter all the sudden claiming to respect Pence. I did a search of his name with the keyword “Pence” and found a whole lot of hateful bullshit that I then quote tweeted.
In total the process probably took about 2 minutes.
But I am not ashamed that I put some thought into that post. You should try it sometime instead littering the board with your partisan farts.
Calling out a liar? Not surprised you find that “weird”…
Trump also offered him a way out of an even more embarrassing situation - he was probably going to lose reelection.
You then quoted me slamming him on all social issues that I still slam him for. He is antigay, antiwomen, and likely even anti-black, but wraps it all up in a strangely somewhat inoffensive gentle old uncle persona, one that you could call basically a nice guy front, but one that still offends. I felt that way when he was Trump's best buddy and now when Trump loathes him.
The complaint by others on me calling him "honest" may be a very valid criticism. He puts on a front that seems honest and sincere, but it might not stand up to scrutiny.
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I will take you on your word that you don't know about the "christian nationalism" movement.
"Someone" has involked hollywood to create a documentary about this Christian nationalism movement. You should watch it. It's presented well enough to make me grieve for being alive. Cinema and good production can have that effect on people, no matter the truth. The swamp is deep. The swamp is wide. The swamp is very well organized. The greatest country in the collective organization of the planet earth is being brought to it's knee's by well organized robots.
Not specifically, other than his complete silence on the overt racism of Trump and others in his party. Someone who knows better than me his level of support, or lack thereof, on various legislation relating to civil rights should chime in. I did say "likely".
I can never remember who I’m responding to, but whatever name you choose isn’t exactly known for nonpartisan thoughtful messaging.
