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We have a verdict -- Guilty on ALL counts

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And the democrats back then also didn’t torpedo his presidency with a bullshit investigation into Russian collusion which lasted 22 months and turned up zero evidence of collusion between his campaign and Russia.
It’s scary how many people still do not have the slightest understanding of the Mueller report. Because DOnnie said completely exonerated, you guys believe that. There is and was plenty of evidence. I’ll point out just one. So you have an explanation for why Paul Manafort was passing voter rolls and information to the Russians? What possible reason can you dream up for that? Start there….
 
I think juries typically do the right thing.
I don’t think so Aloha. The Rittenhouse case is probably the clearest example. There’s no doubt that he was innocent but you really want to take your chances trying that case in Manhattan? There are still leftists that will label him a murderer. Many on this board.
 
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There are many differences that I’ve explained here, but the Trump sycophants who chanted “lock her up!” about HRC are absolute hypocrites and aren’t even ashamed of their hypocrisy.
Bullshit. If the rules were the same. Trump, Biden, Pence, and Hillary would all be prosecuted. Look in the mirror for the hypocrisy.
 
I’ve never read a post where you condemned the protests and called for prison time for the looters and arsonists.
That's impressive reading, Stoll. The counter says TMP has only posted 23617 messages, maybe you missed one along the way.
 
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The Trump world is a horror show of corruption and un-American behavior. The Mueller report reinforced the truth of that.

Russia attacked our systems and attempted to interfere in our elections through a concentrated social media campaign.

Yet, people like Tucker Carlson encourage a softening toward our adversary and engage in propaganda in support of Russia.

Much of Russia's social media interference campaign had a (successful) focus on promoting Trump and dividing America.

Key Trump supporters actively engaged with the fake and bad faith social media interference from Russia via re-tweets and other amplifications.

We also know that the social media content promulgated via Russia found and finds an easy channel in the right-wing news coverage which ultimately ends up on this board, among many other places.

Russia also hacked Democratic Party and Clinton operations in an effort to bring Clinton down.

The Mueller investigation was unable to prove that Trump and his campaign co-organized those efforts (collusion), but Trump openly and actively welcomed those Russian efforts.

Don Jr. and others met with Russians looking for opportunities for Russian intelligence to smear the Clinton campaign. The intention is there, but those efforts largely proved fruitless (so no effective coordination/collusion).

Mueller waved off any coordination and collusion claim for lack of clear proof. Mueller did so despite extensive interactions between Russian actors and despite that Trump's team actively lied to and obstructed Mueller's investigation. Mueller's report acknowledges that there may indeed have been wrongful coordination and that the missing information could alter the conclusions.

Meanwhile, in no small part because of possible business advantages for Trump in Russian, Trump's campaign team was actively engaged with Russians and began talks about softening America's hard stance against Russia and watering down sanctions. (Not coincidentally, right-wing support for Russia over Ukraine and U.S. interests grows).

Mueller laid out in painstaking detail how Trump obstructed justice. That obstruction would amount to a crime. Indeed, he expressly concluded there was substantial evidence of the commission of wrongdoing. However, Mueller stated at the outset that the DOJ cannot indict a sitting president, so he lacked authority to reach the conclusion that Trump committed a crime. All he can do is lay out and assess the evidence. Basically, Mueller concluded that there was indeed a "1", there was another "1", and there was yet another "1", but he could not by law complete the sum and add 1 + 1 + 1. A different tribunal must do that math. Mueller was clear that by that inability he was not concluding that no crime was committed. That arcane and unfortunate failure to meet the system's needs rendered a massive disinformation campaign about just what exactly Mueller concluded.
Thank you for doing the work. It’s hard to believe how many people just took Trump and his minions at his word and believed there was nothing in the Mueller report. Bill Barr did some heavy lifting on that one. And lived to regret it.
 
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I don’t get how in the world people don’t get that! But we never prosecute Presidents!!!! Duh. We aren’t usually stupid enough to ELECT a known criminals to the highest office in the land.
Because we can understand the legal claims, recognize the stupidity of same, and realize that the Soros prosecutor campaigned on finding something, anything. You don’t think the same could be done to Biden? He had classified docs in a garage. Grow up
 
So essentially. Russian trolls made a few Facebook posts. And the Trump campaign met with some Russians that said they had oppo on Hillary (turns out they didn’t and they never met with them again).


And you psychopaths wanted to impeach him for that. Youre a shill. And kind of a terrible human.
Well for being such a reader, you certainly couldn’t even read a couple paragraphs and pick out the important information from it.
 
Trump insisted she did. Using your logic, that by itself makes him a terrible human.

Unfortunately for him, he couldn't get Comey and Sessions to buy in.
Be honest with yourself. If Trump wanted an AG that would go get Hillary, he could’ve gotten one.

As much as you try to demonize him, when he won he was willing to let bygones be bygones. He put the greater interest of the country first.

And now you guys have come along and shit all over the whole political process.
 
Hmmmmm somehow doubt that. If so, you’re reading the wrong things.
You're not going to "win" any arguments like this.

All decent people can do in this day and age is refuse to alter personal barometers on decency and principles, show good faith in all deeds, and resist the easy temptation of grievance, insecurity, petulance, parochialism and bigotry that has overwhelmed vast numbers of likely once-reasonable people.
 
Because we can understand the legal claims, recognize the stupidity of same, and realize that the Soros prosecutor campaigned on finding something, anything. You don’t think the same could be done to Biden? He had classified docs in a garage. Grow up
No I don’t think the same can be done to Biden because I don’t think he is someone who has been a known criminal his entire lifetime. Could you find something on anyone, sure. Has his entire life been a criminal enterprise? No, it has not.
 
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Be honest with yourself. If Trump wanted an AG that would go get Hillary, he could’ve gotten one.

As much as you try to demonize him, when he won he was willing to let bygones be bygones. He put the greater interest of the country first.

And now you guys have come along and shit all over the whole political process.
How you can post the shit you do with a straight face is beyond me.
 
So essentially. Russian trolls made a few Facebook posts. And the Trump campaign met with some Russians that said they had oppo on Hillary (turns out they didn’t and they never met with them again).


And you psychopaths wanted to impeach him for that. Youre a shill. And kind of a terrible human.
That is world class misrepresentation. The kind that indicates an extremely dishonorable person.
 
Well for being such a reader, you certainly couldn’t even read a couple paragraphs and pick out the important information from it.
I’m confused is it Russian collusion he’s guilty of? Or obstructing his own DOJ?

If we’re going to imprison presidents for meddling in their own DOJ we better save room in Trump’s cell for Obama, Bush II, Clinton and Carter.
 
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No I don’t think the same can be done to Biden because I don’t think he is someone who has been a known criminal his entire lifetime. Could you find something on anyone, sure. Has his entire life been a criminal enterprise? No, it has not.
The prosecutor literally said there’s enough to indict Biden. This case. Being mushy peas saved him. That doesn’t make him better. He’s been in gov 50 years. He should or did know better

Who knows what the 10 percent to the big guy and the whistleblower shit will yield of trump wins

Dems politicized the judicial system federally - and locally with Soros backed prosecutors. If trump wins the other side of the coin will turn.

Not a net gain for the country.
 
You bore me. You think it’s okay to convict a former president over this garbage?

Gain some perspective. Shits a clown show. There’s a reason we don’t indict former presidents. It’s because there’s no such thing as a neutral jury for a president. It’s the most famous person in in the country and everyone already has an opinion.

That’s until Biden and his progressive goons came along. Sickening people.
There is also a lot of responsibility for Presidents and former Presidents. They should try to set an example for the country by making sure they pay their bills and obey the laws and not do things that look shady.

Don't bother responding with anything using words like "Biden", "progressive" or "Democrat." I'm talking about Trump this time.
 
I hope he wins, pardons himself, and spends the next 4 years on a revenge tour. I’m a huuuuuuggggeee fan of prosecuting government officials. I’d love to see more of them in jail.
He can’t pardon himself in the state cases.
 
You're not going to "win" any arguments like this.

All decent people can do in this day and age is refuse to alter personal barometers on decency and principles, show good faith in all deeds, and resist the easy temptation of grievance, insecurity, petulance, parochialism and bigotry that has overwhelmed vast numbers of likely once-reasonable people.
None of us are winning any arguments here. I don’t feel the need to respond in good faith when someone asks if the library is filled with books on “ass sex”. That doesn’t deserve a serious discussion.
 
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The betting markets dipped right away and basically bounced back to where they were prior to the ruling.


What did the stock market do on Fri, you know since Trump warned us the bottom would fall out if he was convicted?
 
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Hillary Clinton doesn’t belong in prison, even though she clearly committed a felony. She got her comeuppance at the ballot box.

That’s how this country used to work until progressives decided to tear our politics to shreds.
She should have lost her clearance, been prosecuted, found guilty, and put on probation and fined. That would have been just. Trump’s crimes in the document case are worthy of prison time.
 
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None of us are winning any arguments here. I don’t feel the need to respond in good faith when someone asks if the library is filled with books on “ass sex”. That doesn’t deserve a serious discussion.
In all seriousness and non-judgment, you do you.

For me, engaging in bad faith stuff that will never know any bounds only elevates the bad faith. While I'm certainly not above it, I don't have much interest in poking back at derangement. It doesn't gratify me.

I do think, though, about whether others are the audience. There are some likely reasonable people here. I'd rather engage with them. I'd think they - consciously or otherwise - would take note on who's rising above the chaos and who's just wallowing in the mud with the pigs. There's got to be a better way for those of us who want better and who are horrified by the turn things have taken with propagandized, gullible, bigoted, hate-mongers having an outsized influence on things that actually matter.
 
There is also a lot of responsibility for Presidents and former Presidents. They should try to set an example for the country by making sure they pay their bills and obey the laws and not do things that look shady.

Don't bother responding with anything using words like "Biden", "progressive" or "Democrat." I'm talking about Trump this time.
They shouldn’t do things that look shady.

Obama became president as a first term senator, former community organizer. Now he owns houses in DC and Martha’s Vineyard and has a net worth of probably around 100 million.

Is it “shady” that our presidents make bank off of their time in office? Or are we more amenable to the blatant corruption?
 
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The prosecutor literally said there’s enough to indict Biden. This case. Being mushy peas saved him. That doesn’t make him better. He’s been in gov 50 years. He should or did know better

Who knows what the 10 percent to the big guy and the whistleblower shit will yield of trump wins

Dems politicized the judicial system federally - and locally with Soros backed prosecutors. If trump wins the other side of the coin will turn.

Not a net gain for the country.
No that’s not what he literally said. He said that he didn’t think he could get a jury to indict because the president COULD present himself as “an elderly man with a poor memory. “ He also said that it “does not establish Mr. Biden’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. “
 
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So essentially. Russian trolls made a few Facebook posts. And the Trump campaign met with some Russians that said they had oppo on Hillary (turns out they didn’t and they never met with them again).


And you psychopaths wanted to impeach him for that. Youre a shill. And kind of a terrible human.
Youre a shill. And kind of a terrible human.

Actually he's brilliant. And you're a caricature of a clown...
 
In all seriousness and non-judgment, you do you.

For me, engaging in bad faith stuff that will never know any bounds only elevates the bad faith. While I'm certainly not above it, I don't have much interest in poking back at derangement. It doesn't gratify me.

I do think, though, about whether others are the audience. There are some likely reasonable people here. I'd rather engage with them. I'd think they - consciously or otherwise - would take note on who's rising above the chaos and who's just wallowing in the mud with the pigs. There's got to be a better way for those of us who want better and who are horrified by the turn things have taken with propagandized, gullible, bigoted, hate-mongers having an outsized influence on things that actually matter.
I appreciate that and know I should be better. Sometimes I’m just not. I’m listening to Righteous Minds right now, as recommended by Brad Stevens here, as an attempt to better understand.
 
He can’t pardon himself in the state cases.
Correct. But Fani Willis….. to put it kindly is not a smart person. She has surely made all sorts of missteps and mistakes.
Won’t be hard to destroy her life once Trump is back in office.

She’ll learn what happens when Atlanta idiots try to play in the big game. It’ll be similar to when Sherman went through there.
 
Bullshit. If the rules were the same. Trump, Biden, Pence, and Hillary would all be prosecuted. Look in the mirror for the hypocrisy.
You don’t have a clue about the issue and a reason I no longer try to explain the huge differences between the cases. You choose invincible ignorance.
 
Because we can understand the legal claims, recognize the stupidity of same, and realize that the Soros prosecutor campaigned on finding something, anything. You don’t think the same could be done to Biden? He had classified docs in a garage. Grow up
Bragg didn’t campaign on that. James did that in Georgia. Bragg was actually reluctant to bring the case but succumbed to pressure from the left.
 
She should have lost her clearance, been prosecuted, found guilty, and put on probation and fined. That would have been just. Trump’s crimes in the document case are worthy of prison time.
If Trumps document case is a slam dunk, why do you think the FBI would stage allegedly photographic evidence, then leak or publish the fake evidence? That’s not a good look for the government.
 
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That is world class misrepresentation. The kind that indicates an extremely dishonorable person.
It’s actually not Aloha. It’s the facts of the Trump/ Russia relationship.

it’s a joke that this was allowed to hang over the majority of his term in office. **** these people.

Dishonorable is when government shills contort Harmless events into some sort of malevolence for political and personal gain. You are the one that is dishonorable.
 
I don’t think so Aloha. The Rittenhouse case is probably the clearest example. There’s no doubt that he was innocent but you really want to take your chances trying that case in Manhattan? There are still leftists that will label him a murderer. Many on this board.
"The Rittenhouse case is probably the clearest example. There’s no doubt that he was innocent but you really want to take your chances trying that case in Manhattan?"

So explain the difference between Rittenhouse murdering 2 people and Abbott in Texas pardoing a white nationalist who murdered a BLM demonstrator ?

Rittenhouse was found not guilty,even though 2 unarmed people died, by a jury in Wisconsin. Daniel Perry was found guilty by a jury in Texas. Yet Abbott decided to usurp the people's will and pardon a man who was unquestionably guilty and provoked the situation...
 
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