The people that say these things only live in his head.
We have a lot of offers out there, but are we actually in the lead with anyone?
- Thread starter Bippy
- Start date
I know you disagree with them and that's fine. I didn't think you were trying to goad me in to an argument, I said that mostly because those things have been argued about ad nauseam on this board already so I don't see a point in going over them again if someone else decided to start arguing.
That's a good point about the strength of schedule his first year. There are plenty of reasons to question whether or not Miller can be successful at IU and it is quite possible he won't be. The people I take issue with are those like fpeaugh who say there is no possible way he can so he should be fired right now.
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W2B said nothing about Kentucky High School players (or Indiana ones). You either didn’t read his post or you didn’t understand it, and you obviously know nothing about the Sampson recruitment to have made the statement you did. Bird didn’t just sign, he enrolled. Then he left. I know his IU roommate, though I haven’t seen him in a long time. Your babbling rants are miles from the topic, but they’re funny. And maybe he was talking solely about you when he was ripping IU fans. Ever consider that probability?
Rent free is great, but several people from the Water Cooler have moved in and said they get the same deal? What gives?
silly prankster. yep, Bird was on campus. W2B did not know that. What is your point in defending that mocker of IU Nation? Do you detest IU that bad that your ally is an IU troll? Oh, and share that hoop knowledge with us...
He asked a question to which a number of thoughtful replies were offered. You either didn’t read his post clearly or didn’t choose to reply in earnest. Either way, you’re a rambling rant factory who’s obsessed with someone who clearly has your number. Why don’t you either offer a response or just move on?
see above. How about sharing that x and o knowledge that you are so proud of ....thought so....
The entire exchange was about missed recruits, but it’s obvious why you wanted to change the topic as quickly as possible.
As for your next question regarding Crean, I wouldn’t have had to fire him because I never would’ve hired him. Would TC have been your coach? You’re having a tough night here.
Lol. Feel free to link to the three posts ever that might have said that, much less by me. The point continues to be we don’t know what we have yet........
Not sure I did but I’ll say I do. Sampson and Creaner put together teams at IU that were FFesque in design if not performance. No reason to think Archie can’t do that at IU if he can get this thing going.
Guys, you really need to look at opinions on a spectrum. We get that you guys have made up your minds. Lord have mercy, we get that. But everyone still making up their minds is not out to get you and building a program is often full of fits and starts. Really. Lol.
Recruits can commit whenever a valid offer is presented to them. They may not sign a Letter of Intent until one of the designated signing periods.
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That’s a much different argument than calling people douches. Also, thinking Archie is going to make the final four contradicts still making up ones mind in my opinion.
I don’t think anyone is out to get me. I will say as annoyed you get with fpaugh and people like myself, I get just as annoyed with the other side. We at least have that in common
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That is all that counts. Verbals can change their minds up until the LOI is signed.
Nothing is a commitment (whether verbal or written or via wink or sign language or Morse code) except a signed NLI.
Recruiting changes like the wind. A lot of guys like to see what the team is doing before they make a commitment. I think once Archie gets into the season you will get some quality recruits. I truly believe this yr will be a better yr for Indiana basketball. I just feel Archie felt he had to go through Romeo to keep him happy. I don’t know Archie’s recruiting pitch, but hopefully he doesn’t guarantee kids anything and they have to work for everything they can at Indiana
This is actually my biggest worry with Archie, I thought he was a hard ass that demanded smart play and defensive effort.
My biggest gripe on how he coached Romeo is the same thing that everyone hated how he coached Smith...he didn't demand effort.
I've been rewatching last year's games (unemotionally and because I'm bored) and we did try to run some spacing offense, and when we shared the ball we were actually pretty good...but we took way too many quick and outright dumb shots.
Romeo was guilty of this but so were all our guards. Phinesse is supposed to be a pass first guard....he wasn't. He was a drive and shoot first guard (other than the Illinois game). Both Rob and Green, many times, brought the ball down....and shot.
People were pissed that we didn't get Romeo the ball enough. We did when we actually ran offense. When we made one pass and then Al Durham takes a shot...not good.
I expected Archie to not allow that but he did....and that is my biggest worry/surprise/doubt about him.
And that is exactly what I have been saying, that not one single team out there has a commitment for 2020 yet.
Uh, okay. That’s actually not accurate, but please believe whatever you want.
Yeah, last year's apparent "underutilization" of the team was frustrating and perplexing. Multiple posts on this site and others have discussed/argued/dissed about the issues and their causes.
Was Archie learning how not to handle OADs? Was Romeo or were other guards/wings stopping the flow of the offense? Was IU"s lack of experience in all positions a problem? Was there still a learning curve on Archie's systems on offense and defense? Were injuries putting bench options in a hole? Was the short bench causing problems of team practice and execution? Did the lack of available personnel cause matchup and out of position problems? Were there team leadership issues? Where the heck did the successful 3-pt shot go? Why didn't Archie solve all those issues or any of them? Yada yada...
If the answer really is all or almost all of the above...then will this year and next be any different?
I have an opinion...ask me. But wait until after the next two years.
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I'm a member of the Archie Apologist Club so I'm not on his ass like a lot here but the biggest difference between his Dayton teams that are on you tube to watch and last year's IU team was his Dayton teams shared the ball/moved the ball. Plus they moved into passing lanes...last year we tended to stand and watch. We had good spacing but tended to stand.
Anyway a good example was the game at Rutgers. We actually passed the ball around on offense and built a nice 8 point lead. We got into some foul trouble and lost the lead in the last three minutes...and started taking dumb shots on one or zero passes.
It continued into the second half. Awful, quick shots. Guys like Rob and Durham driving on their bigs early in the clock, Romeo forcing step back air balls, dribbling off his foot, Morgan clanking 25 foot three's, Smith air mailing a shot two feet past the rim... Rutgers went on something like a 22-4 run once we started taking one pass dumb shots to go up 10 or so. We play a little better, close the lead to 3 I think but that's as close as we get.
I believe shot selection is coaching. To be fair, Archie did get on Phinesse and Green (they were awful) as he kept subbing them for each other.
Anyway, the main gist is count the number of passes that we make per offensive possession. Seriously when it's above three and the ball moved across some distance (not pick and roll or dribble handoffs)...we weren't bad offensively.
That to me seems like something the coach can demand which Archie didn't so yeah...put that on my concern list.
I'm about 55-45 in the hater club, but there are enough things that I like to give me off-season optimism. One thing that I like, that I think most people really underestimate, is the talent level.
As you know, I keep track of the star ratings for Rivals, 247 and ESPN for all of the power 6 conferences. I'm currently updating rosters for 2019-20, with only the Big 10 and ACC complete. Anyway, I highlight every player that is 4-Star or better by at least 2 services, and the Big Ten/ACC average is 5 of these highly touted recruits on each roster. IU has 9 currently, which trails only MSU (11) and Maryland (10). We are also tied with UNC and UofL. 16 of the 29 teams in the Big 10/ACC have 5 or fewer players on their roster that received 4-Star status (or better) from at least 2 services.
I think the roster structure, depth of talent and experience level should put IU in a great position to be a major surprise this season relative to the prognostications that I've seen so far. As of right now, I think 55-45 is a pretty reasonable stance in either direction, but I have a feeling that won't be the case at this time next season.
I enjoy your replies because you are continually reassessing your own opinion based on the factors that you see as relevant.
I agree with you Pater and for me it's been some kind of formula of four stars and higher times experience.
Last year when Torvik was talking up MSU a ton, he was asked 'why are you so high on them when they just lost two lottery recruits?' and his answer was 'because they have essentially three five star players who are upperclassmen....and that's unheard of in today's game'.
Sure enough, MSU had as good or better of a season thanks to Cass becoming the man as a five star upperclassmen.
Like we've said, there are no more Prillers, McSwains, McRoberts etc. We only have two unranked guys but they are upperclassmen who have proven to be solid college dudes in Green and Durham.
The Rutgers game I referenced saw us get eaten alive by their mountains as they got Morgan, Smith and even Forrester in foul trouble at the end of the first half when they made their comeback.
Anyway I'm rambling but like you I'm excited about the raw amount of ranked players, in multiple positions that have some good experience.
What concerns me is what I've mentioned in the thread along with the fact that the only guys with decent PER's are Brunk and Davis coming into the season. We need multiple guys to get over 15 at a min. That's a decent sized jump in production. Our returning guys are in the 9 to 12 range.
To belabor the "On Paper" aspect of this roster; I noticed that verbalcommits is all updated now with IU ranked #12 in the nation (#2 in Big 10) in Average Stars (3.583). IU will also be one of the more experienced teams from among the highly talented teams.
Talent = check
Experience = check
Positional Balance = check
Health is the x-factor, imo. If Deron is finally able to be 90%+ for 90% of the season and Hunter has no major setbacks, IU should be golden (if Archie just good)
Agreed! I've been meaning to look back at teams who made nice jumps from one season to the next, and see how the PER's improved for the returnees. After I finish updating the other conferences, I plan on digging in on this.
I hypothesize that non-bigs see their PER's influenced greatly by team performance. In other words, I'm not so sure that a leap in PER is necessarily equivalent to a jump in individual development.
Yup and adding @Paterfamilias to this ..
Verbal commits has IU ranked second in talent using only people rankings. Pater I suspect has them top 5 using rankings and experience. We have IU 7th using PER and eff stats and balancing them with people rankings, Torvik has IU 11th using only eff stats..
the more ranking based the higher the expectation, the more stats based the lower.
Which means .. we have too many players not producing stats relative to their ranking. AD, RP, JS being the biggest culprits and DG for most of the season. For RP being a freshman, it's excusable and I suspect he'll improve drastically .. AD and JS were both huge disappointments last year statistically and DG still hasn't proven he can be consistent.
Though I'm pretty much happy with the depth and personnel in the frontcourt, the backcourt is very questionable.
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Is your assessment of talent totally predicated on internet fan site composite ratings (Rivals, 24/7, ESPN)?
No! However, for the purposes of my off-season prep work, I use those rankings along with class (frosh, soph.. etc) as gospel. I watch a lot of video and game replays as well as track analytics to help determine proper bets. My only concern is trying to make profitable wagers. I have to start each season somewhere and most of the stuff I talk about here is my base off-season numbers, which will often vary greatly from my in-season power rankings... even though mine are not arrived at by the same method that most are.
Over a period of years, if a coach continually fails to exceed the off-season base numbers, I will rarely bet on that coach. Alford was tricky for me, because he was so good at the mid-major level that I still believed even after my own numbers said that I shouldn't. Other than Alford, though, I haven't been tricked often. Archie through two years (which isn't enough) looks a bit like Alford, so I totally get jumping off the bandwagon. I'll be jumping myself, if IU isn't pretty damned good this season.
