You missed the mark here Goat. Bowl is a hack.
Trump riot developments
- Thread starter cosmickid
- Start date
Atlanta, which stopped voting because of a 'water main leak' that was later found to be a urinal overflow, is Republican? Because that's where a lot of the questions are.
And it says a lot about everyone else that no one has said it about you.
Baseless lies by the president of the United States claiming election fraud. A deadly insurrection intended to stop the Constitutionally-mandated process of counting and certifying electoral votes. The outgoing president’s refusal to admit defeat and attend the inauguration of his successor. An election audit being conducted six months after the election by a private firm that’s led by a “Stop the Steal” advocate and election fraud conspiracy theorist. Confidence in the fairness of elections, the cornerstone of American democracy, undermined by a reckless, narcissistic ex-president who puts ego above country. 53% of Republicans clinging to the belief that Trump is still “the true president” despite the rejection of Trump's legal challenges by dozens of courts, despite his own Attorney General declaring that there was no evidence of widespread fraud impacting the election outcome, and despite numerous recounts and audits - - including those conducted by Republican election officials - - finding no fraud. This is Trump’s shameful legacy.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53...mp-true-us-president-reutersipsos-2021-05-24/
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53...mp-true-us-president-reutersipsos-2021-05-24/
I’m always skeptical of polls but assuming they’re representative that’s sad on numerous fronts. Sad that so many republicans believe conspiracy shit, but it’s also sad and alarming to see such a high percentage of what they designate as Americans believe the election was tainted. Backing out the repub conspiracy nuts; measures need to be taken to restore the remaining americans’ faith
Leaders stepping up and admitting there is no credible evidence of fraud would help a lot. Many of the measures being proposed are perpetuating the mistaken belief that making voting easier led to widespread fraud.
I think he gets a free pass b/c Cheney was such a d!ck and completely Machiavellian in his approach. GWB will always be seen as a figurehead for the Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal.
The Next Best Option if a January 6 Commission Fails
"On balance, a House select committee is not the optimal vehicle to investigate the January 6 insurrection.... but it might be the best one available." How this path could be made most effective.
www.justsecurity.org
The tricky part of this for Republicans is keeping in mind that there'll be an investigation one way or another. It's purely a matter of whether they want it to happen via a bipartisan commission or via a Democrat-led select committee in the House. Each has its advantages and disadvantages for the party. Republicans would have more influence over a commission but its findings would be harder to demagogue than those of a select committee and the subpoenas it issues would be harder to fight politically. Democrats would have more influence over a select committee but its findings would be dismissed as partisan nonsense and its subpoenas would be tied up in court forever. The linked article makes the case that a select committee would be a decent alternative.
Whether or not findings come from a select committee or a bipartisan commission is irrelevant. Anything dems would say from either one will be dismissed by any and all republicans as partisan nonsense. Jesus F*****g Christ, what percentage of the republican party believes the election was either stolen, or that Trump is actually still secretly president and will return to full time presidential duties after the summer? Yeah, can’t wait for a “bipartisan commission” when that’s the other side’s base.The Next Best Option if a January 6 Commission Fails
"On balance, a House select committee is not the optimal vehicle to investigate the January 6 insurrection.... but it might be the best one available." How this path could be made most effective.
The tricky part of this for Republicans is keeping in mind that there'll be an investigation one way or another. It's purely a matter of whether they want it to happen via a bipartisan commission or via a Democrat-led select committee in the House. Each has its advantages and disadvantages for the party. Republicans would have more influence over a commission but its findings would be harder to demagogue than those of a select committee and the subpoenas it issues would be harder to fight politically. Democrats would have more influence over a select committee but its findings would be dismissed as partisan nonsense and its subpoenas would be tied up in court forever. The linked article makes the case that a select committee would be a decent alternative.
There's no universe where an investigation doesn't happen. The GOP just needs to decide what sort of body ends up conducting it.
While there are some in good faith who want the investigation to happen, I think the primary purpose of Pelosi’s push is to keep January 6 cooking until the 2022 midterms.
The real investigation will come through discovery in the civil action brought by Ashli Babbitt’s family. We will finally get to find out what orders were given to the Capitol cops, who gave the orders, and what the deadly threats were, if any.
I agree with this . But we also can't dismiss the fact that republicans will make their decision based on politics as well
I’m not arguing whether or not an investigation will happen. I’m merely pointing out how republicans will act during and afterwards. I’d be willing to bet at least (and I stress “at least”) half the republican voting base won’t believe the findings anyway.
What percentage of the republican base believes Jan 6th was antifa and BLM pretending to be Trump humpers?
The Dems were extremely prepped and ready for all the legal maneuvering. There was an episode of "The Circus" which I saw back in Oct that assured me how well prepared the Biden team was to deal with any of Trump's planned nonsense...
Dude you really should stop getting your conspiracy theory talking points from "the hip hop patriot", because there are actual affidavits out there from REAL OFFICIALS available thru a simple google search...
And yes, this particular affidavit from Frances Watson (The Chief Investigator (GOP, btw) for the Office of GA Sec of State (again GOP) basically qualifies as a pretty thorough GOP debunking of the water leak conspiracy theory you CHOSE to cite... Notice how THOROUGH it is, in a sworn statement? Completely unlike the altered representation put forth by some who used the video out of context and deliberately conflated events from Nov 3 AND Nov 4 as if they occurred the same day...
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.284055/gov.uscourts.gand.284055.72.1.pdf
Fact check: Georgia 'suitcase' video is missing context
In-depth review of video surveillance footage of a polling site in Georgia found no wrongdoing on the part of election workers.www.usatoday.com
Fact check: Claim of Georgia vote spike for Biden after pipe burst at counting site is false
A pipe break in Georgia and a counting stop seen on surveillance video happened on two different occasions and are not related in any way.www.usatoday.com
I do appreciate you finally providing us with the details of your favorite conspiracy theories. That way we can do a simple google search to provide the already completed debunking of each theory in a systematic manner. Got any more?
One way to restore faith in American elections: Republicans could stop actively trying to undermine said faith.
I think you can be nonpartisan and believe there were irregularities unique to this election that are independent of republican conspiracy claims (influence). Hopefully with Covid and trump behind us next election will go more smoothly
Pretty funny you would take USAToday as an objective source.Dude you really should stop getting your conspiracy theory talking points from "the hip hop patriot", because there are actual affidavits out there from REAL OFFICIALS available thru a simple google search...
And yes, this particular affidavit from Frances Watson (The Chief Investigator (GOP, btw) for the Office of GA Sec of State (again GOP) basically qualifies as a pretty thorough GOP debunking of the water leak conspiracy theory you CHOSE to cite... Notice how THOROUGH it is, in a sworn statement? Completely unlike the altered representation put forth by some who used the video out of context and deliberately conflated events from Nov 3 AND Nov 4 as if they occurred the same day...
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.284055/gov.uscourts.gand.284055.72.1.pdf
Fact check: Georgia 'suitcase' video is missing context
In-depth review of video surveillance footage of a polling site in Georgia found no wrongdoing on the part of election workers.
www.usatoday.com
Fact check: Claim of Georgia vote spike for Biden after pipe burst at counting site is false
A pipe break in Georgia and a counting stop seen on surveillance video happened on two different occasions and are not related in any way.
www.usatoday.com
I do appreciate you finally providing us with the details of your favorite conspiracy theories. That way we can do a simple google search to provide the already completed debunking of each theory in a systematic manner. Got any more?
The voting stopped for no apparent reason. https://www.news.com.au/world/north...g/news-story/19176f5113512210517c82debe684392
If this was a Republican precinct and Trump got as many votes from there, percentage-wise, as Biden supposedly did, you'd still be screaming about it.
That's always been a descriptive words used in the 2020 election.
Did you just wake up?
I suppose it's possible to be gullible enough to be nonpartisan and still get suckered into this stuff. But by and large, if you buy any of it, you're either a partisan hack, or you are at least partisan enough to be sympathetic to it.
Unless you're using "irregularity" in a way I'm unfamiliar with.
Is that like when you on the Left were convinced Trump was collaborationg with the Russians?
The adults are talking. Go back to the kids' table.
It was over 5 months ago. People have used that word since then, because it's descriptive and accurate.
Why not just admit you were duped because you bought anything negative about Trump, hook, line, and sinker?
A partisan like you could never admit that.
I don't think Bush was lying about the WMD, but do think he was lying when he said that was the reason for going to war.
What about the Democrats who were secretly against the war but voted for it for political reasons?
Bush lied his ass off, and no idea why anyone would think otherwise.
as for Dems, the DNC is as totally owned as the RNC, Dem politicians like Pub politicians serve only Wall St and themselves, and Reagan, Clinton, GWB, Obama, and Trump, were all total and complete disasters as president, and i have little hope of Biden being any better, as he was total sht as a senator.
It’s not being suckered into anything. When we see stats like a third of independents don’t trust the integrity of an election that’s an issue. That’s tens of millions of people. And it doesn’t mean they think it was the wrong outcome. Just that the procedures and administration are questionable.
Here we had ballots found in the trash (postal workers indicted); a judge ordering that repubs should have closer access to counting; new procedures and admin in response to Covid, etc. Was it worse this election than prior? I have no idea. Do I think any of those things had a material impact on the outcome? Of course not. But hearing it along with so many other complaints about mail in voting, oppressive lines, etc it chips away at voter confidence.
a positive byproduct of trump’s claims is that maybe we can have a discussion to look at changes that could help restore integrity and confidence. The bills being kicked around in the states are irrelevant to that goal. They’re largely about increasing or limiting access. But there are changes that should be explored. For instance I think audits are a good thing. Establish rules and procedures for same. Not unlike a financial audit. Why not explore ways to take elections away from partisan entities. You could use nonpartisan experts of sorts to run them.
The point is a significant portion of Americans question the integrity of elections. This skepticism was exacerbated by trump conspiracists but it can be turned into a positive. It’s not healthy for our country to have such little faith in the integrity of elections
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Yes, significant numbers of Americans don't trust elections. That's a big problem. But it does not mean that there were actually any unique irregularities. There were not. Significant numbers of Americans question elections because they are partisan hacks and suckers who have been tricked by partisan hacks.
I know you don't like to hear this, because you are one of those "both sides do it" types, but the fact is, you party has engaged in a campaign to falsely question the security and trustworthiness of our election systems. Your party has succeeded. But it hasn't succeeded because it is right. It has succeeded because people are partisan idiots.
There is no way to dance around this to make people feel better. People question the elections because they are dumbasses, and Republican politicians are telling them to question the elections. That's just the reality of it.
Perception is as impt as reality. If there are measures to take that can provide a sense of independence/objectivity they ought to be explored
Funny that phrase comes up when it's republicans' feelings about crime, or republicans' feelings about elections. Yet when black people's feelings about policing are part of a discussion they're completely discounted. Careful about the precedent you're setting here, counselor.
I agree perception is important. I just don't like pretending that perception is reality, which is what it sounded like you were doing a few posts above when you referenced "unique irregularities." When it comes to perception only, I agree you have a firm angle on the problem.
Believe me I know the republicans are driving the election fraud bs. I wouldn’t mention any of it but for the fact I was surprised by the stats pertaining to independents
It makes total sense if you remember that 75% of the people who identify as "Independent" are just partisans who refuse the label but vote exactly like a member of the party anyway.
Of course there’s an element of that but I believe there’s some merit to true independents. I saw an MIT poll that was as high as 60 something percent
Few Americans Who Identify As Independent Are Actually Independent. That’s Really Bad For Politics.
If you’ve ever been in a conversation about politics, you’ve probably heard someone say, “I don’t like either party” or “Politics is just so ugly these days.” T…
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If there was absolutely no way possible that anyone would ever find out, would you
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