This is on Fred Glass

[JohnsyRick]

Just for the record, it isn’t about CTA..... maybe not even Glass. For me, it is the 30 + Years. Glass just happens to be the AD at the end of my rope which was 30 years long. I do think he is the best AD we have had during those 30 (I’m pretty sure of that) but you are measuring against failure.

There does seem to be a similarity between CTA and CTC. A similar creed so to speak...#LEO etc. IU does seem to be attracted to this type of approach since RMK was at the University.

Well, I get frustration, as I said IU has been a part of my life from the very beginning. That said , I love IU, and that will never change regardless of our on field performance. IU has given me far more in experiences, education and friendships than I will ever be able to repay. Does that mean I don’t want to win or accept losing as ok ? Hell no, but whining , bitching and withholding donations doesn’t change our teams outcomes.
You say Glass may be the best AD in your 30 years, yet you aren’t willing to trust his decisions. You say it isn’t about CTA and then go on to compare him to Crean ? Really ? Because he has enthusiasm? Or because he says LEO ? Dantonio always says “Go Green”, does that make him like Crean?
Maybe we aren’t even debating the same point, you just seem worn out on IU sports, I’m just asking that people give CTA a reasonable chance to do the job he was entrusted to do.

 

[I loved lucys]

Kind of presumptuous for a guy who's been on the board for a mere two weeks to claim to know anything about me. Lol.

Your posts since the Maryland debacle have provided plenty of evidence of your acceptance of mediocrity. No need for you to belabor the point, though I'm sure you will.

 

[Bowlmania]

Your posts since the Maryland debacle have provided plenty of evidence of your acceptance of mediocrity. No need for you to belabor the point, though I'm sure you will.

No belaboring here. Please identify one of those posts for me and I'll quietly disappear into the night. Bahaha.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Kind of presumptuous for a guy who's been on the board for a mere two weeks to claim to know anything about me. Lol.

Now that’s kinda of funny Lucy....*chuckle

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Hell no, but whining , bitching and withholding donations doesn’t change our teams outcomes.

Not whining, not bitching, and donating hasn’t changed the outcome either. I’ll spend the donation money on cigars, Bourbon, and club dues.

I grew up in Bloomington through the 70’s... things have changed at the University since then. I don’t feel I owe anything to them. I paid for my education it wasn’t given to me. I was a Hoosier before I ever went to the University. A native Hoosier and a University hoosier (small h) are two different things now and it wasnt the native Hoosier that changed. Sad thing is the University doesn’t care....

Maybe it’s deeper.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

The reality is actually quite the opposite. This board treated KW as Kevin Lumbardi up until the very minute he was let go. Since then everyone has treated him like an evil person and terrible coach, just because Fred Glass told them so. Just blind sheep following their leader.

I was critical of KW at times while he was here. I didn't annoint him the 2nd coming like the rest of the board did. What some of us do is look at things objectively...pros and cons. We don't just blindly support whatever Fred Glass thinks is best. Mostly because his track record is terrible in these decisions. If Fred Glass had the track record of Barry Alvarez I doubt anyone would be questioning this decision. Since he has a terrible track record...some of us are less willing to follow his lead.

It's "Lombardi."

 

[Superstar84b]

After being there, there were legitimate reasons as to why you’d let him go. I’ve touched on this before. It’s a complex situation. It I’m not here to bash CKW. The biggest asset that he brought was forcing players to believe that they could win, and demanding success. Now his actual actions didn’t match his demeanor as I’ve mentioned before (his lack of attention to what was going on with the defenses for example). So in the end, he’s gone, and it’s about time we start focusing on the future, not the past. You could make an argument to keep him or let him go depending on who you are. On one hand, the team went to bowls. On the other hand, a lot of the stories are relatively true. So, it is a complex situation and was probably a tougher call for glass than people on the board appreciate.

 

[Superstar84b]

A lot of the stories on Wilson’s behavior are simply true. I recall specifically that when he first arrived some players who Glass said had a spot since they were committed, he pulled their offers on official visits. This was right after he was hired. Along with his conduct with an RA, his conduct on the radio show before the BSU game, he could’ve legitimately been fired before he even coached a game. A lot of people involved with the program looked at him as a suspect person. My personal view is that he was just a tough guy who needed to adapt just a little bit. But it was unrealistic that he’d stick around, and although I would’ve tried to work with him, and although I didn’t like that he got fired, I can see why he would get fired given his actions and many of the stories being true. The fact that he went 6-6 the last two years and blew multiple calls over the years also contributed. If make a bowl in 13’ and 14’ (which is realistic without some of his decisions), he probably doesn’t get fired.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

My personal view is that he was just a tough guy who needed to adapt just a little bit.

I think this is probably very true. The adjustment was needed because of the approach and customs of how IU approaches discipline and structure. They were different from CKW. We wanted him to be different. I believe the constant pushing the admin for more wether it was money, assistants, recruiting money...more, more ,more...it got old and annoying to IU as they waited for him to #LEO up after a few years. An opportunity presented itself and boom it happened. The decisions aren’t know and won’t be. We can speculate is all. But because of the process to let him go set CTA up. People expect no drop of.

Say thank you to Mr Glass for that. I hope him success but if it is a decline then yess both should go.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Another classy loser.... you might get your rear end kicked but boy, I’m sure the moral high ground will ease the pain..... and fill the seats.

i'll take "classy loser" over being a no class loser, which you're flirting with.

and the moral high ground is highly under rated.

winning with class is the end goal.

losing with no class is the thing to most avoid.

hopefully IU is moving toward the former, and having "class" to begin with is step one to that.

your desired path is step one to the latter.

 

[IU Scott]

I suggest you become a KY fan.

No doubt and the programs that want wins over everything are the programs who will break the rules to win. I never want our program ran that way where it is win at any cost.

 

[IU Scott]

It's so pathetic when fans make excuses to make it sound like winning and doing it the right way are a zero sum game. We're no cleaner of a program than any of the elite names out there winning. Every fan base thinks they're the clean ones. It's naive and embarrassing for our entire fanbase to constantly make these excuses.

Sure they are and if you think the SEC teams are not breaking the rules then you are naïve. Last night on the Journey there was story on a OSU player who came form a single parent home and what was he driving back home but a huge SUV. He was also wearing a huge Chain around his neck that looked pretty expensive so how can a poor college student afford these things.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

There is no evidence. Don't you think one of the tens of thousands of IU students would have snapped one video in 6 years if he was consistently drunk at the bars? He's not hard to recognize in small town Bloomington. I have no doubt he got too drunk on an occasion or two, but this assassination of character saying he was out drunk all the time simply isn't true. If it was, there would be proof. 99% of Bloomington have cell phones to take pictures of the drunk football coach if these claims were even remotely true.

I completely agree and this is what I have said from the beginning. I defended KW at the time to the extent that there was no evidence that I had seen. I try to be objective, and I think I am most of the time. My judgements are made by a preponderance of evidence that is presented. Despite what some people including Dakich continued to say, I never saw hard evidence of such a pattern of poor behavior.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Kind of presumptuous for a guy who's been on the board for a mere two weeks to claim to know anything about me. Lol.

Looks like you are living rent free in someone's head. Crowded in there.

 

[JohnsyRick]

Not whining, not bitching, and donating hasn’t changed the outcome either. I’ll spend the donation money on cigars, Bourbon, and club dues.

I grew up in Bloomington through the 70’s... things have changed at the University since then. I don’t feel I owe anything to them. I paid for my education it wasn’t given to me. I was a Hoosier before I ever went to the University. A native Hoosier and a University hoosier (small h) are two different things now and it wasnt the native Hoosier that changed. Sad thing is the University doesn’t care....

Maybe it’s deeper.

Sounds like you just prefer to spend the money on yourself, which is everyone’s right in how they spend their hard earned money. Bourbon and cigars bring you enjoyment, helping to provide scholarships to IU athletes brings me enjoyment, nothing wrong with either.
I also grew up in Indiana, I also paid for my education, but the experiences and life long friendships...... priceless. Sorry you apparently didn’t have the same .

 

[JohnsyRick]

I completely agree and this is what I have said from the beginning. I defended KW at the time to the extent that there was no evidence that I had seen. I try to be objective, and I think I am most of the time. My judgements are made by a preponderance of evidence that is presented. Despite what some people including Dakich continued to say, I never saw hard evidence of such a pattern of poor behavior.

.
In my particular case, the bar involved is not one you would see a whole bunch of students , it’s not like he was hanging out at Kilroy’s or Nick’s.

 

[Thomtar]

Serious question. Why do people keep mentioning his politics? I've never heard anything about this. And I have no idea which way he leans or why you/others keep mentioning it.

And yes, coaching ultimately determines outcomes in college. Not on a game by game basis but when looking at the big picture it does. Because players are the result of the coach. This isn't the pros where you have a separate GM. In college the coach is the GM and HC. Everything, good or bad, falls on their shoulders.

He was Gov. Evan Bayh's chief of staff and Evan is the scion of a prominent Democrat family in Indiana. So, it's probably safe to assume Fred does not vote in the GOP primary.

 

[cshartle123]

.
In my particular case, the bar involved is not one you would see a whole bunch of students , it’s not like he was hanging out at Kilroy’s or Nick’s.

Wilson was tasked with arguably the toughest job in college football. There’s no doubt that he was rough around the edges, but his toughness is the reason we were coming into this year with expectations of seven or eight wins. I would not expect Glass to overlook some of his episodes, but he did a lot of dirty work to set this program up for a break through season. There was also a lot of good he did for student athletes. This includes setting them up for successful careers in the NFL. It’s one thing to make it on an NFL roster, and another to understand what it takes to perform consistently as a starter. It looks like Glass thought he could employ Wilson to do the dirty work then ride the wave up with Allen. That’s not how football works. Everything changes with a new head coach. Allen has inherited the momentum that Wilson created along with the rich history of losing behaviors. I think I could see him realize what he got himself into during the postgame press conference after his defensive blew another game at Michigan State.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Wilson was tasked with arguably the toughest job in college football. There’s no doubt that he was rough around the edges, but his toughness is the reason we were coming into this year with expectations of seven or eight wins. I would not expect Glass to overlook some of his episodes, but he did a lot of dirty work to set this program up for a break through season. There was also a lot of good he did for student athletes. This includes setting them up for successful careers in the NFL. It’s one thing to make it on an NFL roster, and another to understand what it takes to perform consistently as a starter. It looks like Glass thought he could employ Wilson to do the dirty work then ride the wave up with Allen. That’s not how football works. Everything changes with a new head coach. Allen has inherited the momentum that Wilson created along with the rich history of losing behaviors. I think I could see him realize what he got himself into during the postgame press conference after his defensive blew another game at Michigan State.

That momentum was waning fast.

 

[JohnsyRick]

Wilson was tasked with arguably the toughest job in college football. There’s no doubt that he was rough around the edges, but his toughness is the reason we were coming into this year with expectations of seven or eight wins. I would not expect Glass to overlook some of his episodes, but he did a lot of dirty work to set this program up for a break through season. There was also a lot of good he did for student athletes. This includes setting them up for successful careers in the NFL. It’s one thing to make it an NFL roster, and another to understand what it takes to perform consistently as a starter. It looks like Glass thought he could employ Wilson to do the dirty work then ride the wave up with Allen. That’s not how football works. Everything changes with a new head coach, and Allen has inherited the momentum that Wilson created along with the rich history of losing behaviors. I think I could see him realize what he got himself into during the postgame press conference after his defensive blew another game at Michigan State.

Well, first off, I was a fan of CKW and supported him throughout his time here even with some warts. My goal is not to belittle CKW, but for those who want to deny the whole picture on him, I have merely pointed out what I know to be true. As I said before, whether or not any of his actions rose to the level of dismissal, I don’t have enough facts to make that determination. All I know is, it was made and CTA is now our coach, and until he proves not to be up to the task , I support him.
As for Glass, I think you are way off base if you think there was some master plan to “employ Wilson to do the dirty work then ride the wave up with Allen”. What does that even mean ? CKW is the one who brought Allen to town, so I guess he was in on it. In any case, I do agree most things change with a new HC, sometimes for the better, sometimes not, it remains to be seen at IU how that pans out.

 

[fpeaugh]

Sure they are and if you think the SEC teams are not breaking the rules then you are naïve. Last night on the Journey there was story on a OSU player who came form a single parent home and what was he driving back home but a huge SUV. He was also wearing a huge Chain around his neck that looked pretty expensive so how can a poor college student afford these things.

You don't think there are IU players in similar situations with the same things? You're really this naive?

 

[fpeaugh]

.
In my particular case, the bar involved is not one you would see a whole bunch of students , it’s not like he was hanging out at Kilroy’s or Nick’s.

And no one at this bar ever had a camera phone? Seems reasonable.

 

[fpeaugh]

He was Gov. Evan Bayh's chief of staff and Evan is the scion of a prominent Democrat family in Indiana. So, it's probably safe to assume Fred does not vote in the GOP primary.

Thanks. I had no idea he was once his chief of staff. Doesn't matter to me one bit. I don't know why this would matter to anyone.

 

[fpeaugh]

That momentum was waning fast.

Back to back bowl games for the first time in over 20 years is waning? What in the world are you talking about. Momentum had never been better the day he was fired.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Back to back bowl games for the first time in over 20 years is waning? What in the world are you talking about. Momentum had never been better the day he was fired.

Last year they hung their hat on beating a terrible MSU team. They crapped the bed vs Neb and WF, barely squeaked past Purdue and lost 6 of their last 9. They beat nobody good. Momentum was never better?

I understand your narrative, but this doesn't support it.

 

[cshartle123]

Last year they hung their hat on beating a terrible MSU team. They crapped the bed vs Neb and WF, barely squeaked past Purdue and lost 6 of their last 9. They beat nobody good. Momentum was never better?

I understand your narrative, but this doesn't support it.

Last year we went to a bowl game for the second year in a row, and we returned most of the starters this year.

 

[cshartle123]

Well, first off, I was a fan of CKW and supported him throughout his time here even with some warts. My goal is not to belittle CKW, but for those who want to deny the whole picture on him, I have merely pointed out what I know to be true. As I said before, whether or not any of his actions rose to the level of dismissal, I don’t have enough facts to make that determination. All I know is, it was made and CTA is now our coach, and until he proves not to be up to the task , I support him.
As for Glass, I think you are way off base if you think there was some master plan to “employ Wilson to do the dirty work then ride the wave up with Allen”. What does that even mean ? CKW is the one who brought Allen to town, so I guess he was in on it. In any case, I do agree most things change with a new HC, sometimes for the better, sometimes not, it remains to be seen at IU how that pans out.

I don’t understand your point. Are you trying to say it is what it is, and no one should complain?

 

[IU Scott]

You don't think there are IU players in similar situations with the same things? You're really this naive?

I doubt IU players are in that situation because you don't pay for 2 and 3 star players.

 

[cshartle123]

I doubt IU players are in that situation because you don't pay for 2 and 3 star players.

Are we really talking about other teams paying players to support Fred Glass’s decision? It seems like a reach.

 

[JohnsyRick]

And no one at this bar ever had a camera phone? Seems reasonable.

Why don’t you just assure us that Billy Donovan is in town. I have no idea why there aren’t pictures to suit you, personally , if I saw CKW at a bar, drunk or otherwise, I wouldn’t be snapping pictures. BTW, he wasn’t alone so possibly people didn’t feel comfortable doing so, it isn’t a real large place. My guess is most students couldn’t pick CKW out of a lineup anyway, probably had no idea.
What I do know is that everything I have posted about his behavior (which isn’t much) is factual, whether you like it or not.
How about we take a different road, how do you know CKW was let go unjustly? What proof do you have ? None.

 

[JohnsyRick]

I don’t understand your point. Are you trying to say it is what it is, and no one should complain?

I’m trying to say CKW was fired, one assumes justifiably, we may never know for sure, but it is done. Time to move on, if you are an IU fan, then CTA is your coach. It is my experience that complainers complain and it solves absolutely nothing, but it’s a free world.

 

[IUgradman]

Guys, let's get back to talking about how Glass is a shitty AD who doesn't know how to hire football coaches.

 

[fpeaugh]

Last year they hung their hat on beating a terrible MSU team. They crapped the bed vs Neb and WF, barely squeaked past Purdue and lost 6 of their last 9. They beat nobody good. Momentum was never better?

I understand your narrative, but this doesn't support it.

Well where do we hang our hat this year?

I certainly agree we blew some games the last couple years we should have won. Could've been 8-4 both years very easily. Probably should have been 8-4. But still getting to the bowl games was a big accomplishment. I wouldn't say momentum "waned" with back to back 6 win seasons.

 

[fpeaugh]

I doubt IU players are in that situation because you don't pay for 2 and 3 star players.

But to get 4 and 5 star players you have to pay? Is that what you're saying?

 

[fpeaugh]

Why don’t you just assure us that Billy Donovan is in town. I have no idea why there aren’t pictures to suit you, personally , if I saw CKW at a bar, drunk or otherwise, I wouldn’t be snapping pictures. BTW, he wasn’t alone so possibly people didn’t feel comfortable doing so, it isn’t a real large place. My guess is most students couldn’t pick CKW out of a lineup anyway, probably had no idea.
What I do know is that everything I have posted about his behavior (which isn’t much) is factual, whether you like it or not.
How about we take a different road, how do you know CKW was let go unjustly? What proof do you have ? None.

Most of the stories people post are from one or two nights in year 1 of his 6 years at IU. If all you have is 1 or 2 nights in 6 years that he was out too drunk then I don't consider that much. Just my personal opinion.

What I do know is Wilson was extremely tough/demanding on his players being out partying/drinking during season. One of the first things he did was ban the players from going to bars during the season. Previously that wasn't the case. I've heard this from multiple players. So I doubt he banned the players but was out at the bars himself.

And all it takes is for one person to recognize him and say "look there's the football coach" and all of a sudden everyone at the bar knows who he is. With social media it would've been everywhere. But go ahead and believe what you want. Basic reasoning doesn't support it.

 

[cshartle123]

I’m trying to say CKW was fired, one assumes justifiably, we may never know for sure, but it is done. Time to move on, if you are an IU fan, then CTA is your coach. It is my experience that complainers complain and it solves absolutely nothing, but it’s a free world.

Assuming his firing was justifiable just because it happened is deomonstrating trust in Fred Glass. Fans voicing their opinions (“complaining”) is his only form of accountability.

 

[JohnsyRick]

Assuming his firing was justifiable just because it happened is deomonstrating trust in Fred Glass. Fans voicing their opinions (“complaining”) is his only form of accountability.

What has or will it change ? Zip, nada , nothing
You can call it accountability if you want, but spouting off on a message board is nothing of the sort, especially when you have nothing to back up your complaints. FG answers to the president and BOT, period, that is where accountability comes from and I assume they were made aware of the reasons for CKW’s departure.

 

[Thomtar]

Guys, let's get back to talking about how Glass is a shitty AD who doesn't know how to hire football coaches.

I would submit to you that the historical record shows that the only AD in IU history "who knew how to hire football coaches" was Zora Clevenger. And he died in 1970.
BTW: Clevenger was the AD who hired Bo McMillin.

 

[JohnsyRick]

Most of the stories people post are from one or two nights in year 1 of his 6 years at IU. If all you have is 1 or 2 nights in 6 years that he was out too drunk then I don't consider that much. Just my personal opinion.

What I do know is Wilson was extremely tough/demanding on his players being out partying/drinking during season. One of the first things he did was ban the players from going to bars during the season. Previously that wasn't the case. I've heard this from multiple players. So I doubt he banned the players but was out at the bars himself.

And all it takes is for one person to recognize him and say "look there's the football coach" and all of a sudden everyone at the bar knows who he is. With social media it would've been everywhere. But go ahead and believe what you want. Basic reasoning doesn't support it.

My last comment on this, you can stick your head in the sand, put your hands over your ears and stomp your feet, but it won’t change the FACTS that I am aware of. As I stated before repeatedly, I have no idea if his transgressions should or should not have risen to the level of dismissal. But those in charge obviously felt they did ,and since none of us know ALL the facts taking a hard and fast stance on either side is silly. Basic reasoning does support that.

 

[I loved lucys]

My last comment on this, you can stick your head in the sand, put your hands over your ears and stomp your feet, but it won’t change the FACTS that I am aware of. As I stated before repeatedly, I have no idea if his transgressions should or should not have risen to the level of dismissal. But those in charge obviously felt they did ,and since none of us know ALL the facts taking a hard and fast stance on either side is silly. Basic reasoning does support that.

This is how mediocrity takes hold. Never question the decisions of leaders and never care enough to demand transparency and accountability. Just accept what you're told and go along. No wonder IU has had such a historically bad football program. Most fans don't care enough to demand more.