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The Summit Thread

I agree. Trump is demanding more; but he is also offering more. He seems to have commitments from SK and Japan for investment capital. I wouldn't be surprised if some multi-nationals are on board and ready for NK investment too.

You’re looking at it from a Western viewpoint.

More western involvement leads to exposure to the west, and ultimately a glimpse into what the rest of the world looks like.

All of which degrade Kim’s grip on his country- by keeping his people in the dark and scared, without exposure to what’s “normal”, he keeps absolute power.

The LAST thing that Kim wants is for his people to realize that there’s a better way out there- because that’ll ultimately lead to his downfall. Keeping his nukes is the ONLY way he can guarantee that he keeps his grip on power.

Put simply, not only does these types of proposals not help, they have the potential to actually harm his ability to stay in power.

Trump gave up a lot, in return for vague promises. And the Kim line of rulers haven’t been known to honor their word. We’ve had much more comprehensive deals in place with the Kim dynasty leaders- and they’ve never held up their wnd of the bargain.

I’m not sure how an even more vague promise from NK will lead to any better results. The ONLY thing we got that was concrete was a promise to return remains of soldiers/POW’s.

And yes, I realize that details can be worked out later. Usually, the details are worked out BEFORE a meeting.

So, we gave up doing military exercises with S. Korea (which terrifies our allies in the region), promised to ease sanctions without having a clear plan on how denuclearization will work and elevated Kim in the international community- and did all of this ONLY for the promise of future actions, and receiving the remains of some of our old soldiers. Those are certainly great things- but this does appear to be a horrible deal for us.

I’m not sure what else we could’ve expected given Trump’s utter lack of preparedness. And lack of understanding of what truly drives NK.

Remember, Kim met with Jin-Ping of China, and he’s meeting with Putin soon. And I’d bet he’s been talking to Putin, even though he hasn’t met him face to face.

If anyone knows how to play Trump, it’s Jin-Ping and Putin. All three leaders (Jin-Ping, Putin & Kim) are all playing the long game. And Trump is playing the same game with a transactional, immediate situation approach. I’m not sure that’ll bode well for us in the end.

I want to note that I would LOVE for this to resolve peacefully. I really hope it works. But I just don’t see how this works out. And, meeting with him is certainly a positive step- it’s harder to nuke someone you actually know. And, I’m all for new approaches- ones that trust, yet verify (like Ronald Reagan once famously said).

I’m pretty sure if any other president (either side) would’ve done this, most folks (either party) would’ve said that we got hosed in the “deal”.

It amazes me how the cult of Trump reflexively defends everything he does. It’s not surprising at this point. Again, i feel for folks like Noodle & Aloha on here.
 
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Agree totally. I think that reinforces the point that they used the egotism to,get the money and release of sanctions. Also, when Trump pulled out of the agreement it sent a message to NK that he would not give them the same deal: remove sanctions for a promise to stop additional work. Time will tell on that front but I don’t think Trump will settle for anything but a total removal of NK capability.
All that does is bring us full circle to the main point I made which you ignored: this Iran deal you hate so much may very well be the reason Iran doesn't have a bomb right now. Your insistence on a hardline approach that demands everything before giving anything is a recipe for failure in almost every possible situation.
 
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All that does is bring us full circle to the main point I made which you ignored: this Iran deal you hate so much may very well be the reason Iran doesn't have a bomb right now. Your insistence on a hardline approach that demands everything before giving anything is a recipe for failure in almost every possible situation.

Let me clarify. Whether or not they have the bomb is irrelevant IMHO. If they had one the only value is to threaten others. If they were dumb enough to use a bomb it would likely never make it to their target and result in total annihilation of their country and government, not necessarily by nuclear power by the way. They got what they wanted which as the money and the release of sanctions. So you say why pull out? Because it allows us to reinstate sanctions whether they technically are following the rules, cheating and not getting caught, etc. Trump is resetting our position with Iran and also our allies. IMHO these definitely needed to be done. It also sent a message to NK that they shouldn't expect the same agreement. Yes, we could have easily stayed in the agreement and hoped that if they did cheat they would be caught and punished. That would have given NK a strong negotiating point against us. Let the EU's continue to baby sit the Iranians. The Iranians don't have any better track record than NK in holding to their agreements. That is why I dont see Trump agreeing to anything with NK that is not a complete removal of all facilities. It is much easier to police that strategy than trying to monitor every move that Iran makes. My opinions.
 
I agree. Trump is demanding more; but he is also offering more. He seems to have commitments from SK and Japan for investment capital. I wouldn't be surprised if some multi-nationals are on board and ready for NK investment too.

Pls advise how he is offering more.
 
Let me clarify. Whether or not they have the bomb is irrelevant IMHO. If they had one the only value is to threaten others. If they were dumb enough to use a bomb it would likely never make it to their target and result in total annihilation of their country and government, not necessarily by nuclear power by the way. They got what they wanted which as the money and the release of sanctions. So you say why pull out? Because it allows us to reinstate sanctions whether they technically are following the rules, cheating and not getting caught, etc. Trump is resetting our position with Iran and also our allies. IMHO these definitely needed to be done. It also sent a message to NK that they shouldn't expect the same agreement. Yes, we could have easily stayed in the agreement and hoped that if they did cheat they would be caught and punished. That would have given NK a strong negotiating point against us. Let the EU's continue to baby sit the Iranians. The Iranians don't have any better track record than NK in holding to their agreements. That is why I dont see Trump agreeing to anything with NK that is not a complete removal of all facilities. It is much easier to police that strategy than trying to monitor every move that Iran makes. My opinions.
I'm sorry, Bruce, but I don't believe for one second that you honestly think whether or not Iran has the bomb is "irrelevant." I think you're pushing all this through an Obama-hatred filter, and it's coming out kind of ridiculous. If you really honestly believed what you're saying, then you'd stop proclaiming that sanctions against countries like Iran and NK should only be lifted after complete denuclearization, and just demand regime change.
 
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