"The Real Terrorist Was Me And The Real Terrorism Is This Occupation" | Ex U.S. Soldier....
- Thread starter Zizkov
- Start date
Some people will fall for anything....
Did you sign the petition against dihydrous monoxide yet?
It's all our lakes and rivers now and evil chemical companies use it every day.
Some of you guys would stab your johnson with a pitchfork if it was declared as a way of being against The Man.
(PS - I sell pitchforks on the side.)
Did you sign the petition against dihydrous monoxide yet?
It's all our lakes and rivers now and evil chemical companies use it every day.
Some of you guys would stab your johnson with a pitchfork if it was declared as a way of being against The Man.
(PS - I sell pitchforks on the side.)
Talk about falling for anything ..
Isn't that what Saddam made Weapons of Mass Destruction out of ..
btw - have they found them yet?
This is not much of a rebuttal if you do not agree.
C'mon, you can give a more intelligent response.
Also, post boobs.
He has racism confused with nationalism.
He sounds dumb ... or naive at best.
These soldiers volunteer to be told what to do. They know what they are signing up for ... a paycheck.
I don't know, since WWII the US has fought primarily Asians and Arabs/Persians. They use nationalism as a tool.
Sure they signed up to be told what to do, that doesn't mean they can't disagree with what they are told.
He might be naive, but I will put his experience in Iraq up against yours.
They use nationalism... have you looked at the republican party in the past few decades?
Nationalism/patriotism is a staple of fascism, which is where the right is currently leading us straight to...
Yes, that was my point, which I apparently expressed poorly. The they was the US CEOs/politicians.
Nationalism and racism go hand in hand. That's easy to see in single-nation states, like the Netherlands, as well as multi-nation states, like the UK (contrast the BNP with the SNP). In the United States, those who espouse nationalism are invariably white and usually Protestant. They want to think of the U.S. as a single national entity, although it never has been.
They use both. Nationalism is used to build a moral cause, and racism is used to create enemies. It doesn't even have to be "racism" it can basically be creating hate based on any cultural difference. Race is just the easiest.
btw - what's a Hadji? Right?
The first step in creating an enemy is to dehumanize them. That has been War 101 since the beginning of history of any nation that has ever fought a battle. A major complaint about our troops in the first Gulf War was they weren't hateful or racist enough. The 90's .... we were a better people then. 9/11 made us a backwards facing nation of ignorants.
btw - what's a Hadji? Right?
The first step in creating an enemy is to dehumanize them. That has been War 101 since the beginning of history of any nation that has ever fought a battle. A major complaint about our troops in the first Gulf War was they weren't hateful or racist enough. The 90's .... we were a better people then. 9/11 made us a backwards facing nation of ignorants.
Moops, I didn't sign up for the paycheck. The most money I made in a year was in the year I made E-5 and had 8 months of haz duty pay. I made 18 grand. I signed up for the benefits, which George ****ing Bush cut the shit out of so he could give 3 tax breaks to the wealthy while creating more vets.
Anyway, got to see the world, but quickly realized "serving my country" equaled pawn in rich man's wars. Got out when my 4 years was up.
I was naive.
Anyway, got to see the world, but quickly realized "serving my country" equaled pawn in rich man's wars. Got out when my 4 years was up.
I was naive.
We're basically backwards fascist already. Fascism is the state owning the business. Here, the business owns the state.
btw - English dictionaries have an incorrect definition of what fascism is, which is another sign of a fascist state. lol
"As if I really didn't understand
That I was just another part of their plan
I went off looking for the promise
Believing in the Motherland
And from the comfort of a dreamer's bed
And the safety of my own head
I went on speaking of the future
While other people fought and bled
The kid I was when I first left home
Was looking for his freedom and a life of his own
But the freedom that he found wasn't quite as sweet
When the truth was known
I have prayed for America, I was made for America
It's in my blood and in my bones
By the dawn's early light, by all I know is right
We're going to reap what we have sown
As if freedom was a question of might
As if loyalty was black and white
You hear people say it all the time
"My country wrong or right"
I want to know what that's got to do
With what it takes to find out what's true
With everyone from the President on down
Trying to keep it from you
The thing I wonder about the dads and moms
Who send their sons to the Vietnam's
Will they really think their way of life
Has been protected as the next war comes?
I have prayed for America, I was made for America
Her shining dream plays in my mind
By the rockets red glare, a generation's blank stare
We better wake her up this time"
Jackson Browne, "For America"
That I was just another part of their plan
I went off looking for the promise
Believing in the Motherland
And from the comfort of a dreamer's bed
And the safety of my own head
I went on speaking of the future
While other people fought and bled
The kid I was when I first left home
Was looking for his freedom and a life of his own
But the freedom that he found wasn't quite as sweet
When the truth was known
I have prayed for America, I was made for America
It's in my blood and in my bones
By the dawn's early light, by all I know is right
We're going to reap what we have sown
As if freedom was a question of might
As if loyalty was black and white
You hear people say it all the time
"My country wrong or right"
I want to know what that's got to do
With what it takes to find out what's true
With everyone from the President on down
Trying to keep it from you
The thing I wonder about the dads and moms
Who send their sons to the Vietnam's
Will they really think their way of life
Has been protected as the next war comes?
I have prayed for America, I was made for America
Her shining dream plays in my mind
By the rockets red glare, a generation's blank stare
We better wake her up this time"
Jackson Browne, "For America"
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I bought a couple at yard sale
Guy named Al Kayda move in down the street and was selling them with his old cricket cards.
All of our experiences are different. Bully for you that you saw combat, but some of us had other experiences that equally sucked. It is all perspective.
But, most of these replies had nothing to do with service or combat, or very little.
So I can't see how they are all wrong. Rak?
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Oh noes.... were all screwed!!!!
Lack of nationalism has been the fall of many of countries and nationalism has been the savior of many more.
Ziz lives in, and espouses the virtue of, a country currently rejecting mass immigration.
Well...I quibble with the term "occupation". Sure, we were there occupying land, so in that sense, ok. But if any of you think it was like the Nazis in Paris, or Soviets in Eastern Europe, you're dumber that fuk.
You didn't see the children come out of hiding the day after and cheer you in the streets. Or the old women throwing themselves at your feet weeping with greatfulness. Every patrol we did in Baghdad turned into a parade...
In other words, the good citizens of Iraq were very greatful for our " occupation".
Now, I can't speak for things after I left. That could have been a whole other matter...
But what I saw was the most peaceful, humane, and welcome "occupation" in the history of planet Earth...
It must just be people's reactions to you...sounds similar what would happen when you walked into a party...
I get that. And I'm certainly not trying to make light of your time over there. Trust me, that place can suck the big one as far as I'm concerned.
I'll comment a bit more when Time Warner unfuks themselves and I have serviceable interweb.
We just moved and I hate doing this on my phone..to be continued...
I love how the first assumption is that the poster didn't serve and people jump on with likes putting said poster in his place. I was in Somalia in a unit that was in the Gulf 2 years prior. I experienced it and heard the not so distant tales of the Gulf experience. But go on with your asinine, dope-riddled expatriate statements, Ziz.
I also signed up for the benefits. Mainly the Army College Fund. Anyone with a brain planned to be in for 4 and Out. I didn't say anyone went in to get rich. But its a paycheck for people who have nothing else going for them. And the money is on top of free food and housing. Doing it again, I'd pass, and take on more student loan debt.
Moops:
Where in Somalia... I assume Mogadishu? We stopped there both in '89 (around March) and '91 (March again and then in June). ****ing hell hole. I gave a scrawny kid money for food and we watched him run to some Somali and buy a weed called khat instead of food. Same story in Djibouti, another place God forgot.
I knew what you meant about paycheck...my point was the joke was on me. I thought I'd rake it in with haz duty pay, and that wasn't the case.
Also, I totally bought into the doing 20 years and getting a pension BS. I was a total idiot. If I could do it over I would have went to IU straight from high school.
Where in Somalia... I assume Mogadishu? We stopped there both in '89 (around March) and '91 (March again and then in June). ****ing hell hole. I gave a scrawny kid money for food and we watched him run to some Somali and buy a weed called khat instead of food. Same story in Djibouti, another place God forgot.
I knew what you meant about paycheck...my point was the joke was on me. I thought I'd rake it in with haz duty pay, and that wasn't the case.
Also, I totally bought into the doing 20 years and getting a pension BS. I was a total idiot. If I could do it over I would have went to IU straight from high school.
Hazard Pay in 2003 was $50 extra dollars a month.
$50 bucks.
I used to drop more than that at Night Moves on any given evening...
Although come to think of it...that could be considered Hazard Pay too...
Shit, the civil servant finance folks we sent over there in 2006-2008 were getting 25% bumps for haz duty pay, to sit out at Baghdad airport.
Thanks for the answer and I don't doubt you a bit. I get why you said what you did. And, you know damn well I respect you for what you did and have a better idea than most, but you were part of the corporate arm. That's the theme I was fixating on and why I asked. Not that I'm criticizing you, I'm not. Troops follow orders, so you're completely exempt of any fk up moral judgement anyone makes.
I do know one thing, anytime you have solved a problem, you have created two more. We had a very good entry plan, but as always, occupying armies make poor police forces. That's been another constant in the history of war. Hearts and minds, I know it's cliche' but it's absolutely fundamental to successful peaceful occupations. Only it's also BS. there's never been one. Peaceful occupations are inherently flawed.
According to the rules of war and by many differing views from Chinese, to Greek, to German, peaceful occupations are impossible. If you attempt one, it's eventually a drain on economy and an auto loss.
There has never been a successful peaceful occupation in the history of our planet. We did well in the early phases, that's documented, and I've heard your same story more than once. But we became an occupying force, in a country whose infrastructure was broken and needed restarted. That's a tough job.
People were put out, lives were turned upside down. At first they would blame Saddam, but eventually the occupiers become the culprit of their problems. Maybe not to all but to enough. Then antagonistic elements would appear, and, at that point every mistake, real or conceived, made by the occupying forces is magnified. The longer they are there. (a decade) the worse it becomes. Yes it's a generalization, and I'm not just talking about Iraq, I'm talking about every attempted invasion in the history of man.
Also, there's the point that it was, regardless if Saddam was the most evil POS on the planet, by our laws, and by the laws of the nations of this planet, a war fought on false pretense, thus an unjust war. We (USA) may gloss over that little detail, and it may truly had been a mistake, but I doubt very much the rest of the world's political community believes that.That war was a drain on our economy, and disastrous to our political standing. What did the American gain from it? Nothing.
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