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The election has changed.

I don’t think things “cycle out” until the problem goes away, either through policy or something else.

it always cycled out before and the problems never went away. it may alter the establishment but it doesn't overthrow it; they just sponge up the outrage as best they can. again, IMO and that of others, it takes a once-in-a-lifetime code breaker to get the populist train rolling but most of the frontline troops go home when he's gone.

hell, Andrew Jackson lost a war against banks and then got hisself put on the 20 spot, man. lol..
 
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I do wonder if this new MAGA base will be as reliable when Trump is gone. Some of the super fans will not feel this way about another candidate.
Elon..
Becoming more counter culture daily.
The Leviathan already needs him more than he needs the swamp.
The AI shorts on the tube are hilarious.
 
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I don’t think it is. Look at kavanaugh and steward. Got in at the right time pushing computers on their own. Sure as shit not mit nerds. Kavanaugh played soccer at Slu. Steward is now the second wealthiest black man in the world from worldwide.

My buddy put in a pool this summer. He has a 4 million dollar house off wild horse creek rd. Never did anything but landscaping and started a lawn service co. I don’t believe that mobility opportunity is dead. Like Dana white says if you have that savage in you you can run over 99 percent of this next gen. Maybe people don’t want to hustle.

Always good kicking it around manichi

I think the US is a great place to go from being thousandaire to a millionaire, but a shitty place to go from a hundredaire to a thousandaire. always love to hear cool stories like that and "savage" can never be underestimated.

but I think it's pretty accepted everywhere but in our myths that America is where broke people stay broke.

 
I think the US is a great place to go from being thousandaire to a millionaire, but a shitty place to go from a hundredaire to a thousandaire. always love to hear cool stories like that and "savage" can never be underestimated.

but I think it's pretty accepted everywhere but in our myths that America is where broke people stay broke.

Economic mobility in the U.S. took a massive dump after The New Deal and then again after The Great Society.

We’ve trapped a underclass into believing they can/ should subsist on government money.
 
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I think the US is a great place to go from being thousandaire to a millionaire, but a shitty place to go from a hundredaire to a thousandaire. always love to hear cool stories like that and "savage" can never be underestimated.

but I think it's pretty accepted everywhere but in our myths that America is where broke people stay broke.

The causes behind why broke people stay broke and dependency and programs and the hamster wheel is probably best for its own thread. I do have opinions. My aunt spent her entire career teaching in the Stl City public school system. Her injuries rival evel knievels. Anyway again another thread
 
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We’ve trapped a underclass into believing they can/ should subsist on government money.

that became the symptom but it's not the disease. agree big, ineffective govt was part of the problem. we also convinced ourselves that collective bargaining is more evil than the corporations. how dumb. we convinced ourselves that my plumber should be taxed more for his labor more than my money that just sits in accounts (mostly) growing. we convinced ourselves that the failing public school one town over wasn't our problem. it was. we retooled our economy during post-industrialization but then let college prices skyrocket. like punching ourselves right in the nuts. we let Walmart kill Main Street and now we pay their employees' healthcare. then we have nerve to say retail and fast-food jobs should just be stepping stones to "real" careers. WTF.

despite all of this, and the data that suggests economic mobility here is dead, we still tell ourselves that our poor people are lazy and dumb even though we know they work lots of hours, lots of jobs, and just can't get traction here.
 
that became the symptom but it's not the disease. agree big, ineffective govt was part of the problem. we also convinced ourselves that collective bargaining is more evil than the corporations. how dumb. we convinced ourselves that my plumber should be taxed more for his labor more than my money that just sits in accounts (mostly) growing. we convinced ourselves that the failing public school one town over wasn't our problem. it was. we retooled our economy during post-industrialization but then let college prices skyrocket. like punching ourselves right in the nuts. we let Walmart kill Main Street and now we pay their employees' healthcare. then we have nerve to say retail and fast-food jobs should just be stepping stones to "real" careers. WTF.

despite all of this, and the data that suggests economic mobility here is dead, we still tell ourselves that our poor people are lazy and dumb even though we know they work lots of hours, lots of jobs, and just can't get traction here.
Collective bargaining kills corporations. It killed the U.S. auto industry once the best in the world and even today it’s slowly killing Fortune 50 companies like UPS. It’s responsible for out of control budgets in state and local governments across the country.

Economic mobility I believe is very much alive. I don’t think you can support the idea that the bottom 10% is working just as many if not more hours than the Top 50%. Our poor still have it better than anyone in the world, which is why I think the wealth gap is more or less a misnomer. If your quality of life improves while the wealth gap between you and the top 1% grows, the only reason you would complain is jealousy.
 
I bet you were a hell of a good sales manager. And yes you have to keep existing customers happy. We’ve modified the old you can have it fast; you can have it cheap; you can have it good. Pick two to pick one
Shorter Murty....

Price
Quality
Service,..

pick any two...
 
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Collective bargaining kills corporations. It killed the U.S. auto industry once the best in the world and even today it’s slowly killing Fortune 50 companies like UPS. It’s responsible for out of control budgets in state and local governments across the country.

Economic mobility I believe is very much alive. I don’t think you can support the idea that the bottom 10% is working just as many if not more hours than the Top 50%. Our poor still have it better than anyone in the world, which is why I think the wealth gap is more or less a misnomer. If your quality of life improves while the wealth gap between you and the top 1% grows, the only reason you would complain is jealousy.

they're you go. that's an American myth we love to love. foreign competition is what cut the bloated, inflexible US auto industry down to size. and to think, Japan was beating us with cars made by unionized Japanese auto workers...

sorry, not an economist but gonna need some actual data on the last bit. we all have hunches and stories. if you're just saying US poors should just be content with all the barriers before them just because they can eat and talk on smart phones, good luck with that. just weird that other developed post-industrial nations with many fewer resources have maintained or even grown their middle classes. many have strong unions, managed to keep education costs down while also not thinking govt handouts are inherently evil or that their poors are dumb and lazy. but, again, they aren't trapped by our mythos.
 
Probably. That’s epic goal post moving.

Ask him how the recent MAGA candidates have done. #RememberTheRedWave?
I don't know if you noticed, but Republicans took the House in 2022. They may not have lived up to your expectations, but most MAGA candidates did well. You only hear about the ones that didn't.

Romney/McCain - 0 for 2. Trump 1-1, soon to be 2-1.
 
I don't know if you noticed, but Republicans took the House in 2022. They may not have lived up to your expectations, but most MAGA candidates did well. You only hear about the ones that didn't.

Romney/McCain - 0 for 2. Trump 1-1, soon to be 2-1.
Which MAGA candidates did well that took new seats? For bonus credit, look up how much they spent on Vance’s senate seat and how narrowly he won.
 
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And neither would bush McCain Romney etc. Obama was skilled
And, in the words of Joe Biden, "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,"

Clean? lmao
 
Obama pulled off the remarkable feat of getting less total votes for his re-election campaign than his first, yet still winning. Unheard of.

His popularity peaked in 2008 and then again in 2017-2018 with the benefit of comparison/ nostalgia.
Even Trump drew far more votes than Obama
 
I don't know if you noticed, but Republicans took the House in 2022. They may not have lived up to your expectations, but most MAGA candidates did well. You only hear about the ones that didn't.

Romney/McCain - 0 for 2. Trump 1-1, soon to be 2-1.
The GOP significantly underperformed based on historical results for the opposition party in off years. Should have won the Senate and didn’t and should have won the house with a decent margin rather than barely. Trump was a drag on performance not a help. No matter how many times you claim otherwise it was a very poor showing by the GOP.
 
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A pioneer cemetery is an argument for how dangerous pregnancy is? Of course it was -------in 1700-1800's. Just like an infected ear, or cut was...

Medicine has came a long ways since Little House on the Prairie..

Mortality rate i believe was 32 for every 100, 000 births----or someting like 0.03%.

Dangerous? Sure. But to use this as a reasoning for abortion is aisinine---and very, very misleading.
I assume you want no exceptions.
 
Which MAGA candidates did well that took new seats? For bonus credit, look up how much they spent on Vance’s senate seat and how narrowly he won.
So, Vance doesn't count because a lot of money was spent?

He won by 6 points, right? That not a narrow win.
 
I think the US is a great place to go from being thousandaire to a millionaire, but a shitty place to go from a hundredaire to a thousandaire. always love to hear cool stories like that and "savage" can never be underestimated.

but I think it's pretty accepted everywhere but in our myths that America is where broke people stay broke.

That's just BS. I, and most of my HS classmates, were poor and grew up in a rural part of Indiana. Few went to college. At my 50 year class reunion, all were comfortably retired and sitting on big IRAs - in the millions - or land worth 10s of millions.

It's a simple formula - graduate, get higher education or some apprenticeship, don't be an alcoholic or drug addict, stay out of jail, get married, have a family, stay married, and work hard.
 
That's just BS. I, and most of my HS classmates, were poor and grew up in a rural part of Indiana. Few went to college. At my 50 year class reunion, all were comfortably retired and sitting on big IRAs - in the millions - or land worth 10s of millions.
What a crock of shit. You'll believe anything that anyone tells you. Or you just make shit up.

When's your boy Dinesh D'Souza coming out with a sequel to "2,000 Mules?" Or is the media company behind the movie still busy paying plaintiffs who sued for defamation and other causes of action? 🤣
 
Herschel!

Good grief. What losers.

Vance wins by 6 points in the same election where the non-Maga Governor wins by 25 points!
Yeah that’s my point. They dumped a boatload of money into that race. Money is a finite resource and they couldn’t use it in the other ones to help lift all boats. @DANC doesn’t understand that.

MAGA is failing. Quickly.
 
We'll see. She also hasn't had much of an opportunity to remind people why she was the most unpopular VP in history. I'm not much of a prognosticator. She has a lot of work to do in the states she needs to win. As it stands today, Trump still has many more pathways to victory.
"She also hasn't had much of an opportunity to remind people why she was the most unpopular VP in history."

That's a weird claim to make. Link?

Who was the last "popular" VP? My guess would be Biden, but let's face it very few people have any name recognition for a VP and no idea what they do.

And while polls are generally unreliable, a huge shift in polling momentum can be very meaningful. That's exactly what has occurred, as there were multiple polls just released today that shows a huge shift...

I'm also curious why you think Trump has more options? He's basically lost his main issue (Biden's age) over the past couple weeks. We know MAGA is still going tto vote for him, but his only real advantage was an enthusiasm gap among the Dem base, which has been obliterated. I'm not aware of you ever being correct in a single political prediction, but there is 2008 energy and excitement among Dems and the Dem base is larger than the MAGA base.

I don't see a ton of Biden voters rejecting Harris.But a large portion of reluctant Trump voters had turned to Trump (or were going to sit out) because of concerns about Biden's age. Now they don't have to reluctantly choose between two 80 yr olds, and all the people who were dissatisfied with the choices they had now have an alternative. So millions of them will choose Harris, esp womenfor whom abortion is the key issue. Pollsters have been underestimating Dem voting strength since the Dobbs decision.

I'm curious what issue you think is going to drive people to Trump, now that DonOLD has essnetially caught the car he was chasing? Trump was basically able to hide his own mental decline by focusssing all of his efforts on Biden's age. But now that he's succeeded in getting voters to focus on age, his own foibles will come under increasingly more scrutiny...
 
That's just BS. I, and most of my HS classmates, were poor and grew up in a rural part of Indiana. Few went to college. At my 50 year class reunion, all were comfortably retired and sitting on big IRAs - in the millions - or land worth 10s of millions.

It's a simple formula - graduate, get higher education or some apprenticeship, don't be an alcoholic or drug addict, stay out of jail, get married, have a family, stay married, and work hard.
I call BS on this one. I've helped a lot of people over the years with their finances from those in the trades to people in Corporate leadership. While I have seen many a multimillionaire, I have yet to see an entire group as you say. Stay in your lane so you don't look silly.
 
I'm curious what issue you think is going to drive people to Trump,
I agree with most of that post, but there is still an elephant in the room that has inflated 9% in size in the last few years...

I said it before and still think it's true. Trump needs to pound the economy 100%, every day, from now until November, specifically pointing out how things were better when he was in office. Every time he goes off on a tangent of election interference, woke-ness, racial issues, etc, he alienates a voter here and there. This election is going to come down to the margins again. The economy is the likely one issue that every potential voter can agree upon.
 
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That's just BS. I, and most of my HS classmates, were poor and grew up in a rural part of Indiana. Few went to college. At my 50 year class reunion, all were comfortably retired and sitting on big IRAs - in the millions - or land worth 10s of millions.

It's a simple formula - graduate, get higher education or some apprenticeship, don't be an alcoholic or drug addict, stay out of jail, get married, have a family, stay married, and work hard.

man, I feel like I just told some of you guys that Santa isn't real. lol. I'm not stuck on this idea because of political ideology. always love to hear individual success stories but they really don't tell us if the avg American is still economically mobile. my mind can be changed if you've got some real evidence to the contrary.

it's a pretty well known fact amongst the dorks like me who care that we are not what we were:




Danc, sounds like you and your boys might have caught the last gasp of the US industrial juggernaut if you are talking about a 50 year reunion. how many of those good jobs were manufacturing? how many union? how much of that land was from family farms? those paths to wealth are all but gone now.

I'm also wondering how you guys reconcile this belief you have that the US is still where anyone can make it but also a political ideology based on the premise that those opportunities are dead (or have been stolen or whatever). isn't that a main grievance the Populist GOP nominee has now run on twice?
 
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What a crock of shit. You'll believe anything that anyone tells you. Or you just make shit up.

When's your boy Dinesh D'Souza coming out with a sequel to "2,000 Mules?" Or is the media company behind the movie still busy paying plaintiffs who sued for defamation and other causes of action? 🤣
Sounds like he attended a reunion of people lying about their wealth to impress each other.
 
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man, I feel like I just told some of you guys that Santa isn't real. lol. I'm not stuck on this idea because of political ideology. always love to hear individual success stories but they really don't tell us if the avg American is still economically mobile. my mind can be changed if you've got some real evidence to the contrary.

it's a pretty well known fact amongst the dorks like me who care that we are not what we were:




Danc, sounds like you and your boys might have caught the last gasp of the US industrial juggernaut if you are talking about a 50 year reunion. how many of those good jobs were manufacturing? how many union? how much of that land was from family farms? those paths to wealth are all but gone now.

I'm also wondering how you guys reconcile this belief you have that the US is still where anyone can make it but also a political ideology based on the premise that those opportunities are dead (or have been stolen or whatever). isn't that a main grievance the Populist GOP nominee has now run on twice?
Actually, none of the guys in my class (at the reunion, anyway - some in our class were) were in 'manufacturing'. None union, either. Most in construction or sales or had their own small businesses.

The guys I know who are farmers mostly accumulated land over the years, but some did inherit land, which wasn't very profitable when they took over.

I don't think the political situation in this country has anything to do with people becoming successful. It might make it more difficult, but as long as we have our basic freedoms, anyone can make it if they follow the steps I outlined above. I know many people who are stuck in situations of their own making and then blame the government or the economy for their dilemma.

That's not to say there aren't struggles - of course there are. But persevering is necessary to achieve any kind of success.
 
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