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Texas new abortion law

Bill4411

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Jun 24, 2001
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Texas has a new law allowing private enforcement penalties against people who violate or assist someone who has an abortion. This law looks way to open ended to me and appears to be solely punitive rather than seeking to prevent abortions.


The measure -- signed into law by Republican Gov. Greg Abbott in May -- prohibits abortion providers from conducting abortions once a fetal heartbeat is detected.

But among those restrictions, the Texas bill stands out for the novel approach it takes in curtailing the procedure.

Rather than imposing a criminal or regulatory punishment for those who conduct abortions after the point in the pregnancy, the state law created a so-called "private right of action" to enforce the restriction. Essentially, the legislature deputized private citizens to bring civil litigation -- with the threat of $10,000 or more in damages -- against providers or even anyone who helped a woman access an abortion after six weeks.
 
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For the Democrats it will move some people to single issue voters, pro-choice hasn't had that since it was legal.
 
I don't see how this passes the smell test. What happened to undue burden?

Looks like the Supremes are content to be rendered impotent.
 
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Texas has a new law allowing private enforcement penalties against people who violate or assist someone who has an abortion. This law looks way to open ended to me and appears to be solely punitive rather than seeking to prevent abortions.


The measure -- signed into law by Republican Gov. Greg Abbott in May -- prohibits abortion providers from conducting abortions once a fetal heartbeat is detected.

But among those restrictions, the Texas bill stands out for the novel approach it takes in curtailing the procedure.

Rather than imposing a criminal or regulatory punishment for those who conduct abortions after the point in the pregnancy, the state law created a so-called "private right of action" to enforce the restriction. Essentially, the legislature deputized private citizens to bring civil litigation -- with the threat of $10,000 or more in damages -- against providers or even anyone who helped a woman access an abortion after six weeks.
Let me get this out of the way at the beginning of my reply: My analysis is critical of the law for several reasons, none of which are that it is an attempt to restrict abortion. There is nothing wrong with being pro-life. There is nothing wrong with being opposed to abortion, even all abortion. The things wrong with this law actually have nothing to do with abortion.

This law is a cynical attempt to undermine the rule of law and produce a chilling effect by creating a legal regime that cannot be challenged until the law is violated, but which people will be wary of violating because of the cost.

Basically, Texas has outsourced all enforcement of this law to private citizens for the sole purpose of avoiding preemptive restraining orders against the law itself. Because no state official is responsible for enforcing the law, there is no one to sue to stop the law, unless and until an abortion provider is actually sued under it. Texas hopes that, to avoid potential costly lawsuits, abortion providers will simply elect to follow the restriction. So long as they do, no one can challenge the law.

But, under current precedent, the law is undoubtedly unconstitutional. Once someone is sued for performing an abortion, it will become the purview of the courts to enforce the law, and at that point, the law will be challenged by whichever provider loses, and that challenge will be allowed, thanks to a very important precedent called Shelley v. Kraemer. In that case, SCOTUS ruled that racially restrictive housing covenants could not be enforced, because even though private citizens were free to agree to them and abide by them, no one could be forced to abide by them by the courts, because the courts were state actors, just like other state officials. So the minute a court is asked to step in and take part in this sham, state action is in play, and the law will be overturned.

So Texas is really banking on one of two things: First, either abortion providers are too scared to perform the abortions, and the law is never challenged, or second, by the time someone does in fact put himself at risk in order to get the law challenged, the legal landscape will have changed thanks to the strong conservative supermajority on SCOTUS.

I cannot stress just how despicably cynical this is. Texas is using a huckster's trick to use the law itself in order to undermine the way the law is actually supposed to work. It is attempting to unconstitutionally restrict the rights of its citizens while simultaneously insulating itself from any attempts to remedy those restrictions. Regardless of how you feel about abortion itself, if you are a fan of things like the rule of law, due process, etc., you should be strongly opposed to this law.
 
So, IANAL.

But, is the court basically admitting they have serious issue with the constitutionality of the law but cannot, based on how this was presented to them, do anything about it? In another way, if the court were to be presented with a case that does "properly present" the issue to them, would they act? How would someone do that in this case if there is no executive authority in Texas enforcing the law?

In a broader sense, if this is allowed to stand, what prevents any state from passing a law against other hot button issues and just passing enforcement off to the citizenry. This seems like a slippery slope that the court recognizes but doesn't feel equipped to deal with at the moment.
 
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We should just draw a line from the middle of New Jersey to Vegas and let them succeed. Throw in Nebraska and their shitty football team maybe.
 
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For the Democrats it will move some people to single issue voters, pro-choice hasn't had that since it was legal.
The first test will be the VA Governor's race in Nov. Youngkin is doing his damndest to downplay his support from Trump, and has been captured on video saying he can't be open about his anti-Abortion views, as he tries to woo centrist voters...


I also predict it will increase calls from Dem base voters to expand the SCOTUS. And the latest push from some Pubs to try and Impeach Biden is mindblowing. Do these folks not realize that if a POTUS is Impeached and Convicted the sitting VPOTUS is first in line to become POTUS?
 
Let me get this out of the way at the beginning of my reply: My analysis is critical of the law for several reasons, none of which are that it is an attempt to restrict abortion. There is nothing wrong with being pro-life. There is nothing wrong with being opposed to abortion, even all abortion. The things wrong with this law actually have nothing to do with abortion.

This law is a cynical attempt to undermine the rule of law and produce a chilling effect by creating a legal regime that cannot be challenged until the law is violated, but which people will be wary of violating because of the cost.

Basically, Texas has outsourced all enforcement of this law to private citizens for the sole purpose of avoiding preemptive restraining orders against the law itself. Because no state official is responsible for enforcing the law, there is no one to sue to stop the law, unless and until an abortion provider is actually sued under it. Texas hopes that, to avoid potential costly lawsuits, abortion providers will simply elect to follow the restriction. So long as they do, no one can challenge the law.

But, under current precedent, the law is undoubtedly unconstitutional. Once someone is sued for performing an abortion, it will become the purview of the courts to enforce the law, and at that point, the law will be challenged by whichever provider loses, and that challenge will be allowed, thanks to a very important precedent called Shelley v. Kraemer. In that case, SCOTUS ruled that racially restrictive housing covenants could not be enforced, because even though private citizens were free to agree to them and abide by them, no one could be forced to abide by them by the courts, because the courts were state actors, just like other state officials. So the minute a court is asked to step in and take part in this sham, state action is in play, and the law will be overturned.

So Texas is really banking on one of two things: First, either abortion providers are too scared to perform the abortions, and the law is never challenged, or second, by the time someone does in fact put himself at risk in order to get the law challenged, the legal landscape will have changed thanks to the strong conservative supermajority on SCOTUS.

I cannot stress just how despicably cynical this is. Texas is using a huckster's trick to use the law itself in order to undermine the way the law is actually supposed to work. It is attempting to unconstitutionally restrict the rights of its citizens while simultaneously insulating itself from any attempts to remedy those restrictions. Regardless of how you feel about abortion itself, if you are a fan of things like the rule of law, due process, etc., you should be strongly opposed to this law.
I think this is what some have referred to as “taking the gloves off” in legislative terms, like Biden’s eviction moratorium. He knew it wasn’t legal & wouldn’t stand but did it anyway.
 
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This was about injunctions, not the merits.

Roe does not allow first trimester restrictions, so a 6 week rule will eventually fail …. Unless they change Roe.
 
This was about injunctions, not the merits.

Roe does not allow first trimester restrictions, so a 6 week rule will eventually fail …. Unless they change Roe.
What, exactly, does the Roe ruling say?

I've heard it doesn't actually allow abortions, but puts the matter into the states' hands?

I've heard ever since it came down that Roe vs. Wade legalizesabortion, but what does the ruling actually say? I'm asking as a layman.
 
The first test will be the VA Governor's race in Nov. Youngkin is doing his damndest to downplay his support from Trump, and has been captured on video saying he can't be open about his anti-Abortion views, as he tries to woo centrist voters...


I also predict it will increase calls from Dem base voters to expand the SCOTUS. And the latest push from some Pubs to try and Impeach Biden is mindblowing. Do these folks not realize that if a POTUS is Impeached and Convicted the sitting VPOTUS is first in line to become POTUS?

The Senate GOP must have really hated the idea of Pence as president lol
 
Let me get this out of the way at the beginning of my reply: My analysis is critical of the law for several reasons, none of which are that it is an attempt to restrict abortion. There is nothing wrong with being pro-life. There is nothing wrong with being opposed to abortion, even all abortion. The things wrong with this law actually have nothing to do with abortion.

This law is a cynical attempt to undermine the rule of law and produce a chilling effect by creating a legal regime that cannot be challenged until the law is violated, but which people will be wary of violating because of the cost.

Basically, Texas has outsourced all enforcement of this law to private citizens for the sole purpose of avoiding preemptive restraining orders against the law itself. Because no state official is responsible for enforcing the law, there is no one to sue to stop the law, unless and until an abortion provider is actually sued under it. Texas hopes that, to avoid potential costly lawsuits, abortion providers will simply elect to follow the restriction. So long as they do, no one can challenge the law.

But, under current precedent, the law is undoubtedly unconstitutional. Once someone is sued for performing an abortion, it will become the purview of the courts to enforce the law, and at that point, the law will be challenged by whichever provider loses, and that challenge will be allowed, thanks to a very important precedent called Shelley v. Kraemer. In that case, SCOTUS ruled that racially restrictive housing covenants could not be enforced, because even though private citizens were free to agree to them and abide by them, no one could be forced to abide by them by the courts, because the courts were state actors, just like other state officials. So the minute a court is asked to step in and take part in this sham, state action is in play, and the law will be overturned.

So Texas is really banking on one of two things: First, either abortion providers are too scared to perform the abortions, and the law is never challenged, or second, by the time someone does in fact put himself at risk in order to get the law challenged, the legal landscape will have changed thanks to the strong conservative supermajority on SCOTUS.

I cannot stress just how despicably cynical this is. Texas is using a huckster's trick to use the law itself in order to undermine the way the law is actually supposed to work. It is attempting to unconstitutionally restrict the rights of its citizens while simultaneously insulating itself from any attempts to remedy those restrictions. Regardless of how you feel about abortion itself, if you are a fan of things like the rule of law, due process, etc., you should be strongly opposed to this law.

I'd like to see the reaction if California or New York passed a law saying that Vaccinations were required, but the State would not be enforcing that. Instead, anyone not vaccinated can be sued by anyone else, if they lose they pay $10k and if they win they get nothing. I'm sure everyone happy about this law would be just as ok with legalizing vigilantism-by-proxy in that case too. It's despicable.
 
This was about injunctions, not the merits.

Roe does not allow first trimester restrictions, so a 6 week rule will eventually fail …. Unless they change Roe.

Tell me if I have a handle on this...

The courts can't grant an injunction against random vigilante/bounty-hunter to stop them from enforcing this "law" (by way of a lawsuit) until such lawsuit is brought and random vigilante/bounty-hunter has a name and there's an actual case.

If that's the case, sounds to me like the abortion providers need to all get together and designate one of their own as the sacrificial lamb and throw all their collective resources behind defending the case then.
 
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Again, who the F is Rachel? Are we talking Madcow, Richard Levine, someone else?

Maddow. She was warning this was coming early on. Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern were out in front of it as well.
 
Tell me if I have a handle on this...

The courts can't grant an injunction against random vigilante/bounty-hunter to stop them from enforcing this "law" (by way of a lawsuit) until such lawsuit is brought and random vigilante/bounty-hunter has a name and there's an actual case.

If that's the case, sounds to me like the abortion providers need to all get together and designate one of their own as the sacrificial lamb and throw all their collective resources behind defending the case then.
Hey the good news about the law it specifically excludes the woman carrying the fetus but anyone else she may have spoken to about getting an abortion is fair game.
 
Hey the good news about the law it specifically excludes the woman carrying the fetus but anyone else she may have spoken to about getting an abortion is fair game.

Since no one seems to care about perverting justice anymore, I suppose all they'd have to do is claim the fetus was five weeks old and require the plaintiff to prove otherwise.
 
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Since no one seems to care about perverting justice anymore, I suppose all they'd have to do is claim the fetus was five weeks old and require the plaintiff to prove otherwise.
Since it is a civil suit and you can file wherever the plaintiff resides-not where the defendant lives it should be a whole new field of law for some plaintiff's attorneys. I wish the Texas legislators would have tried doing this with some other criminal activity like drug dealing first, if they wanted to pursue private enforcement of laws.
 
Tell me if I have a handle on this...

The courts can't grant an injunction against random vigilante/bounty-hunter to stop them from enforcing this "law" (by way of a lawsuit) until such lawsuit is brought and random vigilante/bounty-hunter has a name and there's an actual case.

If that's the case, sounds to me like the abortion providers need to all get together and designate one of their own as the sacrificial lamb and throw all their collective resources behind defending the case then.
I haven't read the Texas statute but what in the statute prevents a woman from just going to another state for an abortion?
 
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I'd like to see the reaction if California or New York passed a law saying that Vaccinations were required, but the State would not be enforcing that. Instead, anyone not vaccinated can be sued by anyone else, if they lose they pay $10k and if they win they get nothing. I'm sure everyone happy about this law would be just as ok with legalizing vigilantism-by-proxy in that case too. It's despicable.

Heck with that, allow such lawsuits against anyone who might sell a gun to someone who may not be legal, or anyone who knows or assists up to and including the person who sold them ammo or any accessories. Blue states pass that and the Supreme Court will find a problem with deputizing everyone.
 
I haven't read the Texas statute but what in the statute prevents a woman from just going to another state for an abortion?

Other than having to drive that far, a person could still get in trouble if caught helping in the state
 
Heck with that, allow such lawsuits against anyone who might sell a gun to someone who may not be legal, or anyone who knows or assists up to and including the person who sold them ammo or any accessories. Blue states pass that and the Supreme Court will find a problem with deputizing everyone.
In Texas? LOL
 
I haven't read the Texas statute but what in the statute prevents a woman from just going to another state for an abortion?
It's illegal to aid or abet. I don't think the site of the procedure being out of state would obviate that legal jeopardy.
 
Nobody is worried about running against Harris. You guys don't even like Harris. A couple years of her and people will be ready for just about any replacement.
I was speaking more in terms of people who believe Biden has a radical agenda, and hyperbolically accuse him of being a socialist. How would they deal with their perception of Harris's agenda, if they think Biden has "radical" ideas?
 
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