Stats for “The Debate”

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

3,613,647 - births in the US in 2020 (CDC source)

“More than 930,000” US abortions in 2020 (AP citing Guttmacher Institute data, also claiming “1 in 5 pregnancies” terminated in 2020, and that 54% of terminations were by “the abortion pill”).

Not sure if that math checks out consistent. By my count, 930,000 +/- terminations as “1 in 5” would be 4,650,000 pregnancies, and the birth numbers are low.

Just reporting facts to anyone to whom they are important.

US abortions rise: 1 in 5 pregnancies terminated in 2020

 

[mcmurtry66]

3,613,647 - births in the US in 2020 (CDC source)

“More than 930,000” US abortions in 2020 (AP citing Guttmacher Institute data, also claiming “1 in 5 pregnancies” terminated in 2020, and that 54% of terminations were by “the abortion pill”).

Not sure if that math checks out consistent. By my count, 930,000 +/- terminations as “1 in 5” would be 4,650,000 pregnancies, and the birth numbers are low.

Just reporting facts to anyone to whom they are important.

US abortions rise: 1 in 5 pregnancies terminated in 2020

That senile old goat Biden could win a shit ton of fans if he shelved all those Covid tests we never got and mailed every home a box of Plan B

 

[larsIU]

3,613,647 - births in the US in 2020 (CDC source)

“More than 930,000” US abortions in 2020 (AP citing Guttmacher Institute data, also claiming “1 in 5 pregnancies” terminated in 2020, and that 54% of terminations were by “the abortion pill”).

Not sure if that math checks out consistent. By my count, 930,000 +/- terminations as “1 in 5” would be 4,650,000 pregnancies, and the birth numbers are low.

Just reporting facts to anyone to whom they are important.

US abortions rise: 1 in 5 pregnancies terminated in 2020

Will Plan B be illegal in some states very soon? Possibly. Stock up now boys. There’s a black market a comin’

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Will Plan B be illegal in some states very soon? Possibly. Stock up now boys. There’s a black market a comin’

Amazon delivers

 

[dbmhoosier]

3,613,647 - births in the US in 2020 (CDC source)

“More than 930,000” US abortions in 2020 (AP citing Guttmacher Institute data, also claiming “1 in 5 pregnancies” terminated in 2020, and that 54% of terminations were by “the abortion pill”).

Not sure if that math checks out consistent. By my count, 930,000 +/- terminations as “1 in 5” would be 4,650,000 pregnancies, and the birth numbers are low.

Just reporting facts to anyone to whom they are important.

US abortions rise: 1 in 5 pregnancies terminated in 2020

Nonsense. Bill and Hillary assured us they were safe, legal, and rare. They never lie.

 

[Crayfish57]

Will Plan B be illegal in some states very soon? Possibly. Stock up now boys. There’s a black market a comin’

 

[larsIU]

Amazon delivers

So do weed shops in California. But they don’t deliver it to Phoenix.

 

[UncleMark]

Amazon delivers

So do weed shops in California. But they don’t deliver it to Phoenix.

The US Mail delivers drugs from all over the world. Some that even aren't available here. Or so I'm told.

 

[Cortez88]

That senile old goat Biden could win a shit ton of fans if he shelved all those Covid tests we never got and mailed every home a box of Plan B

You don’t think that those who hate abortion will also hate Plan B? I’d keep an eye on the morning after pill. Could get interesting.

 

[mcmurtry66]

You don’t think that those who hate abortion will also hate Plan B? I’d keep an eye on the morning after pill. Could get interesting.

That's why he should get them out in the mail

 

[UncleMark]

You don’t think that those who hate abortion will also hate Plan B? I’d keep an eye on the morning after pill. Could get interesting.

No question in my mind that some states will attempt to restrict their use. It will have to be done online. Smart women will keep some on hand or will know someone who does.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

3,613,647 - births in the US in 2020 (CDC source)

“More than 930,000” US abortions in 2020 (AP citing Guttmacher Institute data, also claiming “1 in 5 pregnancies” terminated in 2020, and that 54% of terminations were by “the abortion pill”).

Not sure if that math checks out consistent. By my count, 930,000 +/- terminations as “1 in 5” would be 4,650,000 pregnancies, and the birth numbers are low.

Just reporting facts to anyone to whom they are important.

US abortions rise: 1 in 5 pregnancies terminated in 2020

There will be some interesting studies coming out 20-30 years from now about crime rates in states where abortion is illegal. Freakonomics follow-up.

Abortion and Crime, Revisited - Freakonomics

Abortion and Crime, Revisited - Freakonomics

freakonomics.com

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

The US Mail delivers drugs from all over the world. Some that even aren't available here. Or so I'm told.

I like the fedex guy because he’s a drug dealer and doesn’t even know it. /Mitch Hedberg

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

There will be some interesting studies coming out 20-30 years from now about crime rates in states where abortion is illegal. Freakonomics follow-up.

Abortion and Crime, Revisited - Freakonomics

Abortion and Crime, Revisited - Freakonomics

freakonomics.com

this is why I can’t stand republicans. They know crime costs, welfare costs, etc are going to rise. You can’t be a fiscal conservative and support a ban on abortion. Period.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

3,613,647 - births in the US in 2020 (CDC source)

“More than 930,000” US abortions in 2020 (AP citing Guttmacher Institute data, also claiming “1 in 5 pregnancies” terminated in 2020, and that 54% of terminations were by “the abortion pill”).

Not sure if that math checks out consistent. By my count, 930,000 +/- terminations as “1 in 5” would be 4,650,000 pregnancies, and the birth numbers are low.

Just reporting facts to anyone to whom they are important.

US abortions rise: 1 in 5 pregnancies terminated in 2020

Well, "1-in-5" is clearly an approximation, and any remaining discrepancy would be explained by the sad fact that there are a non-zero number of pregnancies that are not terminated, and yet do not result in birth.

 

[mcmurtry66]

this is why I can’t stand republicans. They know crime costs, welfare costs, etc are going to rise. You can’t be a fiscal conservative and support a ban on abortion. Period.

It's just really difficult to try to squeeze people under two tents.

 

[Cortez88]

That's why he should get them out in the mail

What about when a very red state like Missouri puts a law on the books that it’s illegal to sell or purchase Plan B pills via the mail? Or most stringent, you cannot possess Plan B pills in the state of Missouri regardless of where they were purchased.

I think it’s very short sided to think that the forces that brought down Roe will stop there, contented. They have a SC that will fight their moral values. Plus they will feel that they are the power center in the GOP. This was a monumental win for social issue conservatives. Good luck trying to control their ambitions going forward.

 

[mcmurtry66]

What about when a very red state like Missouri puts a law on the books that it’s illegal to sell or purchase Plan B pills via the mail? Or most stringent, you cannot possess Plan B pills in the state of Missouri regardless of where they were purchased.

I think it’s very short sided to think that the forces that brought down Roe will stop there, contented. They have a SC that will fight their moral values. Plus they will feel that they are the power center in the GOP. This was a monumental win for social issue conservatives. Good luck trying to control their ambitions going forward.

That's why they need to go in the mail now. Who ever posted the Elaine sponge worthy meme was spot on. Ration that shit until there's a fix. And there will be a fix. Couch it as a healthcare right or something other than privacy. You know I bombed con law. Someone smarter than I will figure it out

 

[Cortez88]

That's why they need to go in the mail now. Who ever posted the Elaine sponge worthy meme was spot on. Ration that shit until there's a fix. And there will be a fix. Couch it as a healthcare right or something other than privacy. You know I bombed con law. Someone smarter than I will figure it out

So you’ve already conceded that there will be tremendous overreach. I guess you would have told people to stock up on whiskey instead thinking about whether prohibition was a bad idea.

 

[DANC]

this is why I can’t stand republicans. They know crime costs, welfare costs, etc are going to rise. You can’t be a fiscal conservative and support a ban on abortion. Period.

Wow. Wow, wow, wow.

Abortion as crime and cost control, huh? Well, it's worked out so well so far with virtually unlimited abortion, right?

For a normally intelligent guy, you are WAY out in la-la land here.

 

[DANC]

That's why they need to go in the mail now. Who ever posted the Elaine sponge worthy meme was spot on. Ration that shit until there's a fix. And there will be a fix. Couch it as a healthcare right or something other than privacy. You know I bombed con law. Someone smarter than I will figure it out

In my opinion, there is a difference - a big one - between allowing abortion of a baby capable of living outside the womb, and a morning after pill.

Yes, both can stop a life, but abortion sanctioned by the state is a lot different than an individual ending a pregnancy the day or two after it starts.

You want a choice? Take a pill - that's on you, not the state.

 

[mcmurtry66]

So you’ve already conceded that there will be tremendous overreach. I guess you would have told people to stock up on whiskey instead thinking about whether prohibition was a bad idea.

Not in the least. I think legally it's fine. Practical not so much. As for overreach I have no idea yet. Too early to know. Sending out plan B was part joke and also part planning ahead for either overreach and/or unintended consequences

 

[mcmurtry66]

In my opinion, there is a difference - a big one - between allowing abortion of a baby capable of living outside the womb, and a morning after pill.

Yes, both can stop a life, but abortion sanctioned by the state is a lot different than an individual ending a pregnancy the day or two after it starts.

You want a choice? Take a pill - that's on you, not the state.

Yeah from a practical standpoint plan B has to be done super fast. 2 days I think

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

What about when a very red state like Missouri puts a law on the books that it’s illegal to sell or purchase Plan B pills via the mail? Or most stringent, you cannot possess Plan B pills in the state of Missouri regardless of where they were purchased.

I think it’s very short sided to think that the forces that brought down Roe will stop there, contented. They have a SC that will fight their moral values. Plus they will feel that they are the power center in the GOP. This was a monumental win for social issue conservatives. Good luck trying to control their ambitions going forward.

Those laws will fail. Missouri cant tell other states what their laws must be. My earlier example - Kentucky cant prohibit me from gambling in Las Vegas with Kentucky-earned dollars.

 

[hoosboot]

Those laws will fail. Missouri cant tell other states what their laws must be. My earlier example - Kentucky cant prohibit me from gambling in Las Vegas with Kentucky-earned dollars.

I think the larger question was whether Missouri can outlaw a woman using Plan B pills that they bought in Kentucky or Las Vegas. It seems clear that they could, but am I missing something that would make that problematic?

And have there been opinions offered on laws outlawing traveling to another state to end a pregnancy. Both that and the above seem like laws that would be attempted in some states. Are they going to pass constitutional muster and how would they be squared with the ruling striking down RvW?

Appreciate you adding the stats for conversation. Plan B definitely seems like a major front in this fight as we see some people going with the "abortion pill" label and others suggesting that it is merely day after "birth control" and not actually abortion.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think the larger question was whether Missouri can outlaw a woman using Plan B pills that they bought in Kentucky or Las Vegas. It seems clear that they could, but am I missing something that would make that problematic?

And have there been opinions offered on laws outlawing traveling to another state to end a pregnancy. Both that and the above seem like laws that would be attempted in some states. Are they going to pass constitutional muster and how would they be squared with the ruling striking down RvW?

At some point reality sets in Hoos. There won't be a way to police this stuff. If I'm in Saint Louis and slip over to O'fallon Ill no one will know. It's OTC with no I.D. reqd.

 

[larsIU]

Those laws will fail. Missouri cant tell other states what their laws must be. My earlier example - Kentucky cant prohibit me from gambling in Las Vegas with Kentucky-earned dollars.

But if you drive from Phoenix to LA and buy weed and bring it back to Phoenix it's not suddenly "legal".

So what happens when somebody leaves KY and buys Plan B in Illinois? They (smartly) gobble up the Plan B in Illinois but the pregnancy takes, you know, hours to terminate and they are back in KY?

You do understand the administration and enforcement will either be:

A. a joke
B. draconian

There's not really a middle ground

 

[hoosboot]

At some point reality sets in Hoos. There won't be a way to police this stuff. If I'm in Saint Louis and slip over to O'fallon Ill no one will know. It's OTC with no I.D. reqd.

Oh I get the practical realities of it. But if it's illegal you know that there is going to be a case where a young woman is charged for taking Plan B if it's illegal and it will be another huge flashpoint in the larger cultural war. If history is our guide, there's no quarter on either side in this one. How does one square a strict ban on abortion with allowing Plan B? If someone comes up with a pill that is "birth control" two weeks later (and they will), is that okay?

 

[larsIU]

If someone comes up with a pill that is "birth control" two weeks later (and they will), is that okay?

Scientists will science the shit out of this. I do fear how much damage an orally administered pill will do to a woman's body. However, it might be less harmful than an abortion.

Come on science!

 

[mcmurtry66]

Oh I get the practical realities of it. But if it's illegal you know that there is going to be a case where a young woman is charged for taking Plan B if it's illegal and it will be another huge flashpoint in the larger cultural war. If history is our guide, there's no quarter on either side in this one. How does one square a strict ban on abortion with allowing Plan B? If someone comes up with a pill that is "birth control" two weeks later (and they will), is that okay?

Agree re a flashpoint. Annoying. Because the reality is that you'd have to be an idiot to get caught and most urban centers (where lost people live) are blue and will be low on a prosecutor's priority list. Zero chance that'd be prosecuted in the city of Stl

 

[hoosboot]

Agree re a flashpoint. Annoying. Because the reality is that you'd have to be an idiot to get caught and most urban centers (where lost people live) are blue and will be low on a prosecutor's priority list. Zero chance that'd be prosecuted in the city of Stl

Jurisdiction will be interesting, but I'd agree that big cities likely won't be where it goes down. Getting caught wouldn't be super easy, but motivated culture war soldiers are likely to push the issue (again on both sides).

 

[hoosboot]

Scientists will science the shit out of this. I do fear how much damage an orally administered pill will do to a woman's body. However, it might be less harmful than an abortion.

Come on science!

It would be nice to have science and politics working in conjunction with each other instead of in opposition, but it would be nice if I could flap my arms and fly, too.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Scientists will science the shit out of this. I do fear how much damage an orally administered pill will do to a woman's body. However, it might be less harmful than an abortion.

Come on science!

It screws up their period for a bit. In my single days I carried them around in a tic tac canister.


Kidding - ish

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

But if you drive from Phoenix to LA and buy weed and bring it back to Phoenix it's not suddenly "legal".

So what happens when somebody leaves KY and buys Plan B in Illinois? They (smartly) gobble up the Plan B in Illinois but the pregnancy takes, you know, hours to terminate and they are back in KY?

You do understand the administration and enforcement will either be:

A. a joke
B. draconian

There's not really a middle ground

I think folks will take the risks.

Weed is just one example of citizens going out of their state to buy.

Prohibition is the mother of invention.

For Western Kentucky people it has always been closer to go to Illinois instead Louisville for abortion. Same for eastern Kentucky - Virginia is closer. They will continue to go where they need to get what they want.

Plus, AOC is advocating abortion clinics on federal land. Fort Knox - the gold standard in abortive medicine!

But seriously folks, getting and using “the abortion pills” is going to be even easier, especially with interest groups organized to help. Hell, people set up private delivery chains to save puppies

A state law against abortion wont be any more or less effective than its laws against other behaviors.

Hoping for the better angels of our nature to reappear. Hating each other isn't working.

 

[Cortez88]

I think the larger question was whether Missouri can outlaw a woman using Plan B pills that they bought in Kentucky or Las Vegas. It seems clear that they could, but am I missing something that would make that problematic?

And have there been opinions offered on laws outlawing traveling to another state to end a pregnancy. Both that and the above seem like laws that would be attempted in some states. Are they going to pass constitutional muster and how would they be squared with the ruling striking down RvW?

Appreciate you adding the stats for conversation. Plan B definitely seems like a major front in this fight as we see some people going with the "abortion pill" label and others suggesting that it is merely day after "birth control" and not actually abortion.

Right. That’s where I was going. I can buy recreational marijuana in Illinois, but I can be arrested to possessing it in Indiana. Sure a woman could drive from Missouri to Illinois and take a Plan B pill there, but I mean, what the hell are we doing.

 

[dbmhoosier]

this is why I can’t stand republicans. They know crime costs, welfare costs, etc are going to rise. You can’t be a fiscal conservative and support a ban on abortion. Period.

Then go vote for Kamala, Pete, or a completely senile Biden. See how it works out.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Right. That’s where I was going. I can buy recreational marijuana in Illinois, but I can be arrested to possessing it in Indiana. Sure a woman could drive from Missouri to Illinois and take a Plan B pill there, but I mean, what the hell are we doing.

Do you think Indiana law enforcement is going to go out and seek warrants to search homes for “day after” meds?

 

[dbmhoosier]

Do you think Indiana law enforcement is going to go out and seek warrants to search homes for “day after” meds?

"It's Indiana. It's Indiana." - Tom Crean

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Then go vote for Kamala, Pete, or a completely senile Biden. See how it works out.

I’ve voted that way before. Doesn’t mean it excuses your hypocrisy as it relates to your ideals.

both parties are shot and need to be blown up

 

[Cortez88]

Do you think Indiana law enforcement is going to go out and seek warrants to search homes for “day after” meds?

Do you think some states will ban mailing those drugs into that state?