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Some of you are voting for this guy....

mcmurtry66

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Mar 14, 2019
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I have been banned from that thread bc I hate circle so thought I’d respond here. @Grateful Redbeard just attacked our pastor and in so doing noted what walz signed.

"The Minnesota law allows courts to have “temporary emergency jurisdiction” during custody disputes crossing state lines if a child has been unable to obtain gender-affirming care. Kat Rohn, executive director of OutFront, an LGBTQ+ advocacy organization in St. Paul, Minn., said the law gives courts the ability to resolve conflicts when parents disagree on whether their child should receive gender-affirming care; it does not remove custody from parents who decline such care.

@CO. Hoosier @BradStevens @TheOriginalHappyGoat leaving aside that this is bat shit crazy from walz who more and more seems like a batshit crazy woke lunatic this is our prior discussion re family court orders. By my own admission I don’t remember anything about conflicts, choice of law, standing etc. but I don’t understand how this can fly.

I’m in fla. Ex is in Georgia. I file in fla. My ex wants my 12 year old minion to get hormone blockers. They zip off to minny and now I’m subject to the vagaries of a local minny judge and his inculcated community stds? Our fla Ct is somehow divested of jurisdiction? What if I get a protective order in fla circuit court. What if my judge who presided over the case in fla circuit ct denies mom’s request. what if he denies her request and it's therefore not included in the final judgment. and there is a final judgment. mn ct can still hear it? bizarre shit.

What am I missing. There’s something I forgot or don’t understand
 
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Your "pastor" is a phony christian of the highest order.

"In providing gender-affirming care for trans children and adolescents, clinicians may offer patients counseling to assist in their social transition to match their gender identity such as changing their names, pronouns and hairstyles. They may also prescribe puberty-suppressing treatments under close monitoring. They generally do not offer genital surgeries until adulthood."

There's your answer. Your kid could get counseling. Maybe some puberty suppressing treatments. That's all a 12 year old could get, so what's the big deal? If they are trans then they should get counseling and whatever other help they need since trans kids kill themselves at a much higher rate than other kids.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

Life is hard enough for these kids. I'm all for making it better for them and helping them not want to kill themselves. I'm not too concerned about how that makes a parent feel that is trying to stop a kid from better understanding their body and circumstances. I'm concerned about the kid and allowing them access to the help they need to make it to adulthood.
 
Your "pastor" is a phony christian of the highest order.

"In providing gender-affirming care for trans children and adolescents, clinicians may offer patients counseling to assist in their social transition to match their gender identity such as changing their names, pronouns and hairstyles. They may also prescribe puberty-suppressing treatments under close monitoring. They generally do not offer genital surgeries until adulthood."

There's your answer. Your kid could get counseling. Maybe some puberty suppressing treatments. That's all a 12 year old could get, so what's the big deal? If they are trans then they should get counseling and whatever other help they need since trans kids kill themselves at a much higher rate than other kids.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

Life is hard enough for these kids. I'm all for making it better for them and helping them not want to kill themselves. I'm not too concerned about how that makes a parent feel that is trying to stop a kid from better understanding their body and circumstances. I'm concerned about the kid and allowing them access to the help they need to make it to adulthood.
I’m all for counseling etc. I’m all for allowing them to express themselves. Dress like the opposite sex. Dress like a furry. I see it at my daughter’s school and again I’m all for it. Let them express themselves. I’m against any circuitry interference including hormone blockers etc more interesting to me are the conflicts/procedural legal issues, full faith and credit etc in opening their courts
 
Your "pastor" is a phony christian of the highest order.

"In providing gender-affirming care for trans children and adolescents, clinicians may offer patients counseling to assist in their social transition to match their gender identity such as changing their names, pronouns and hairstyles. They may also prescribe puberty-suppressing treatments under close monitoring. They generally do not offer genital surgeries until adulthood."

There's your answer. Your kid could get counseling. Maybe some puberty suppressing treatments. That's all a 12 year old could get, so what's the big deal? If they are trans then they should get counseling and whatever other help they need since trans kids kill themselves at a much higher rate than other kids.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

Life is hard enough for these kids. I'm all for making it better for them and helping them not want to kill themselves. I'm not too concerned about how that makes a parent feel that is trying to stop a kid from better understanding their body and circumstances. I'm concerned about the kid and allowing them access to the help they need to make it to adulthood.
Absent some objective biological abnormality, there is no such thing as a trans kid. Sex tracks biology until a mature brain is informed enough to say otherwise. Trans kids are a product of adults, sadly probably trusted adults; in the kids lives. Trans determinations are 100 % subjective based on self-report. Kids minds just are not capable if that determination. They are way to vulnerable to the power of suggestion.
 
Your "pastor" is a phony christian of the highest order.

"In providing gender-affirming care for trans children and adolescents, clinicians may offer patients counseling to assist in their social transition to match their gender identity such as changing their names, pronouns and hairstyles. They may also prescribe puberty-suppressing treatments under close monitoring. They generally do not offer genital surgeries until adulthood."

There's your answer. Your kid could get counseling. Maybe some puberty suppressing treatments. That's all a 12 year old could get, so what's the big deal? If they are trans then they should get counseling and whatever other help they need since trans kids kill themselves at a much higher rate than other kids.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

Life is hard enough for these kids. I'm all for making it better for them and helping them not want to kill themselves. I'm not too concerned about how that makes a parent feel that is trying to stop a kid from better understanding their body and circumstances. I'm concerned about the kid and allowing them access to the help they need to make it to adulthood.
Right or wrong, suppressing puberty is not a small thing.
 
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Absent some objective biological abnormality, there is no such thing as a trans kid. Sex tracks biology until a mature brain is informed enough to say otherwise. Trans kids are a product of adults, sadly probably trusted adults; in the kids lives. Trans determinations are 100 % subjective based on self-report. Kids minds just are not capable if that determination. They are way to vulnerable to the power of suggestion.
Are gay kids products of adults?
 
I’m all for counseling etc. I’m all for allowing them to express themselves. Dress like the opposite sex. Dress like a furry. I see it at my daughter’s school and again I’m all for it. Let them express themselves. I’m against any circuitry interference including hormone blockers etc more interesting to me are the conflicts/procedural legal issues, full faith and credit etc in opening their courts
It seems like a slippery slope to allow one state's courts to circumvent another state's court ruling (or projected rulings?).

More short sightedness in the name of social justice. IANAL so this could happen all the time.
 
I’m all for counseling etc. I’m all for allowing them to express themselves. Dress like the opposite sex. Dress like a furry. I see it at my daughter’s school and again I’m all for it. Let them express themselves. I’m against any circuitry interference including hormone blockers etc more interesting to me are the conflicts/procedural legal issues, full faith and credit etc in opening their courts
Allowing kids to “express themselves “ is where anorexia comes from and other behavior issues. If a kid believes they are a dog, walks like a dog, and eats like a dog, they need intervention
 
Absent some objective biological abnormality, there is no such thing as a trans kid. Sex tracks biology until a mature brain is informed enough to say otherwise. Trans kids are a product of adults, sadly probably trusted adults; in the kids lives. Trans determinations are 100 % subjective based on self-report. Kids minds just are not capable if that determination. They are way to vulnerable to the power of suggestion.
It's madness.
Induced insanity.
They're ill.
Disfigurement should not be a fad.
 
Allowing kids to “express themselves “ is where anorexia comes from and other behavior issues. If a kid believes they are a dog, walks like a dog, and eats like a dog, they need intervention
I’m really more interested in the legal jurisdiction shit
 
I have been banned from that thread bc I hate circle so thought I’d respond here. @Grateful Redbeard just attacked our pastor and in so doing noted what walz signed.

"The Minnesota law allows courts to have “temporary emergency jurisdiction” during custody disputes crossing state lines if a child has been unable to obtain gender-affirming care. Kat Rohn, executive director of OutFront, an LGBTQ+ advocacy organization in St. Paul, Minn., said the law gives courts the ability to resolve conflicts when parents disagree on whether their child should receive gender-affirming care; it does not remove custody from parents who decline such care.

@CO. Hoosier @BradStevens @TheOriginalHappyGoat leaving aside that this is bat shit crazy from walz who more and more seems like a batshit crazy woke lunatic this is our prior discussion re family court orders. By my own admission I don’t remember anything about conflicts, choice of law, standing etc. but I don’t understand how this can fly.

I’m in fla. Ex is in Georgia. I file in fla. My ex wants my 12 year old minion to get hormone blockers. They zip off to minny and now I’m subject to the vagaries of a local minny judge and his inculcated community stds? Our fla Ct is somehow divested of jurisdiction? What if I get a protective order in fla circuit court. What if my judge who presided over the case in fla circuit ct denies mom’s request. what if he denies her request and it's therefore not included in the final judgment. and there is a final judgment. mn ct can still hear it? bizarre shit.

What am I missing. There’s something I forgot or don’t understand
I have no idea. Haven't had to deal with conflict of laws since 2L. Seems to me the Minnesota court would at least have to recognize the Florida restraining order.
 
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It seems like a slippery slope to allow one state's courts to circumvent another state's court ruling (or projected rulings?).

More short sightedness in the name of social justice. IANAL so this could happen all the time.
Sort of the reverse on what we’re hearing with red states and abortion and punishment for out of state etc.
 
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I have no idea. Haven't had to deal with conflict of laws since 2L. Seems to me the Minnesota court would at least have to recognize the Florida restraining order.
I don’t remember either and I’m certain that’s a class I’d have gotten a shitty grade
 
I'm sure. But you are the one who tried to play the "no big deal" card. It is very much a big deal.
Since we are going down the semantics road here, let me clarify. I didn't say it was no big deal, I asked what's the big deal, and I linked the article about trans kids extremely high rates of suicide. Suicide is a pretty big deal too, right? This care dramatically helps lower their suicide rates. Are we trying to keep them alive and help them navigate their own lives? Or are we trying to allow them to cutoff their genitalia? I'm pretty sure this law is intended to try and help keep kids alive and I'm on that side of the fence. Hope that helps.
 
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I’m really more interested in the legal jurisdiction shit
It’s been more than five decades since I looked at this stuff, but IIRC the locus of the child, and if the kid is in danger, the local court will have jurisdiction to make orders in the best interests of the child. How this intersects with custody orders I don’t recall.
 
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I have no idea. Haven't had to deal with conflict of laws since 2L. Seems to me the Minnesota court would at least have to recognize the Florida restraining order.

I have no idea. Haven't had to deal with conflict of laws since 2L. Seems to me the Minnesota court would at least have to recognize the Florida restraining order.

It’s been more than five decades since I looked at this stuff, but IIRC the locus of the child, and if the kid is in danger, the local court will have jurisdiction to make orders in the best interests of the child. How this intersects with custody orders I don’t recall.
Best interests of the kid is always the standard. So you file your petition for custody in fla and it’s pending and you’re hashing out support and visitation schedules and education and mom wants hormone blockers and the judge says yeah we don’t order that so zips off to minny? I don’t get it
 
I don’t think this is correct. While there are some studies that support this notion, they are usually from advocacy groups and have been debunked. Laws based on this notion compound the problem and make things worse.
There are actual studies from non-political organizations that show the care helps lower the extremely high suicide rates. You anecdotally thinking that info is not correct means nothing. Thanks for posting though?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/

https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicid...gender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care

https://epi.washington.edu/news/gen...s-improve-mental-health-in-transgender-youth/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnst...epression-lower-suicide-risk-for-trans-youth/

https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21)00568-1/fulltext
 
Best interests of the kid is always the standard. So you file your petition for custody in fla and it’s pending and you’re hashing out support and visitation schedules and education and mom wants hormone blockers and the judge says yeah we don’t order that so zips off to minny? I don’t get it
It’s a bad law put into effect by a worse governor. He’s the guy that set up a hot line for neighbors to rat out people for family gatherings During Covid. He is bat-shit crazy and will likely be our next VP. You think Biden/Harris vaccine mandates were crazy, you ain’t seen nuthin yet.

I don’t think the law can possibly hold up, but I don’t see procedurally we get there. Local state courts will follow it and federal courts have traditionally stayed away from custody issues. It’s a problem that democrats can only make worse.
 
I just clicked on your last link. The study has a hole in it big enough to drive a truck through. This is the problem. Those who think and act with feelings instead of cause and effect, relevancy, importance etc. are making policy in too many areas.
 
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Since we are going down the semantics road here, let me clarify. I didn't say it was no big deal, I asked what's the big deal, and I linked the article about trans kids extremely high rates of suicide. Suicide is a pretty big deal too, right? This care dramatically helps lower their suicide rates. Are we trying to keep them alive and help them navigate their own lives? Or are we trying to allow them to cutoff their genitalia? I'm pretty sure this law is intended to try and help keep kids alive and I'm on that side of the fence. Hope that helps.
I'm also in favor of care that helps lower suicide rates among children. If I psychiatrist says that a kid is high risk for self harm and puberty blockers can help prevent it, it should be on the table.
 
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Your "pastor" is a phony christian of the highest order.

"In providing gender-affirming care for trans children and adolescents, clinicians may offer patients counseling to assist in their social transition to match their gender identity such as changing their names, pronouns and hairstyles. They may also prescribe puberty-suppressing treatments under close monitoring. They generally do not offer genital surgeries until adulthood."

There's your answer. Your kid could get counseling. Maybe some puberty suppressing treatments. That's all a 12 year old could get, so what's the big deal? If they are trans then they should get counseling and whatever other help they need since trans kids kill themselves at a much higher rate than other kids.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

Life is hard enough for these kids. I'm all for making it better for them and helping them not want to kill themselves. I'm not too concerned about how that makes a parent feel that is trying to stop a kid from better understanding their body and circumstances. I'm concerned about the kid and allowing them access to the help they need to make it to adulthood.
What’s the big deal? How about the irreversibility of hormone blockers in young kids?


History will prove that those in favor of “gender-affirming care” for malleable minors are narcissistic, self-loathing monsters of the highest order.
 
It’s a bad law put into effect by a worse governor. He’s the guy that set up a hot line for neighbors to rat out people for family gatherings During Covid. He is bat-shit crazy and will likely be our next VP. You think Biden/Harris vaccine mandates were crazy, you ain’t seen nuthin yet.

I don’t think the law can possibly hold up, but I don’t see procedurally we get there. Local state courts will follow it and federal courts have traditionally stayed away from custody issues. It’s a problem that democrats can only make worse.
@TheOriginalHappyGoat

interesting

 
I'm also in favor of care that helps lower suicide rates among children. If I psychiatrist says that a kid is high risk for self harm and puberty blockers can help prevent it, it should be on the table.
Except the methodology used in those talking points is under question and doesn’t control for other interventions. Gender affirming care for pre-pubescent youth is a narrative that tilts at windmills and is being shut down across the world. Rightly so.

 
I don’t think this is correct. While there are some studies that support this notion, they are usually from advocacy groups and have been debunked. Laws based on this notion compound the problem and make things worse.
It’s another one of those talking points that is commonly accepted but not rigorously measured.

 
Wrong. Every one of those studies fails to control for other interventions such as counseling and therapy. They add in gender affirming care into the cocktail of treatment and call it a success. It’s intellectual hogwash that wouldn’t matter if it didn’t mean PERMANENTLY ALTERING THE BODY OF A YOUNG CONFUSED KID.
 
Except the methodology used in those talking points is under question and doesn’t control for other interventions. Gender affirming care for pre-pubescent youth is a narrative that tilts at windmills and is being shut down across the world. Rightly so.

Also true. I've been following it in the UK, where they look to be going reverse woke on this issue because the science didn't back it up.
 
Also true. I've been following it in the UK, where they look to be going reverse woke on this issue because the science didn't back it up.
To be fair to the Woke, the right has talking points that they believe to be categorically true despite evidence to the contrary.

But mark my words, history will come for the child mutilators. History may look like massive lawsuits (hopefully) or something else but it will come.
 
Wrong. Every one of those studies fails to control for other interventions such as counseling and therapy. They add in gender affirming care into the cocktail of treatment and call it a success. It’s intellectual hogwash that wouldn’t matter if it didn’t mean PERMANENTLY ALTERING THE BODY OF A YOUNG CONFUSED KID.
Exactly. You got the highest grade in the class.
 
Your "pastor" is a phony christian of the highest order.

"In providing gender-affirming care for trans children and adolescents, clinicians may offer patients counseling to assist in their social transition to match their gender identity such as changing their names, pronouns and hairstyles. They may also prescribe puberty-suppressing treatments under close monitoring. They generally do not offer genital surgeries until adulthood."

There's your answer. Your kid could get counseling. Maybe some puberty suppressing treatments. That's all a 12 year old could get, so what's the big deal? If they are trans then they should get counseling and whatever other help they need since trans kids kill themselves at a much higher rate than other kids.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

Life is hard enough for these kids. I'm all for making it better for them and helping them not want to kill themselves. I'm not too concerned about how that makes a parent feel that is trying to stop a kid from better understanding their body and circumstances. I'm concerned about the kid and allowing them access to the help they need to make it to adulthood.
“The generally do not offer genital surgeries until adulthood.”, is not an absolute. So they sometimes do offer those surgeries. Not cool.

Your views are silly and damaging to kids. Congrats.
 
I’m all for counseling etc. I’m all for allowing them to express themselves. Dress like the opposite sex. Dress like a furry. I see it at my daughter’s school and again I’m all for it. Let them express themselves. I’m against any circuitry interference including hormone blockers etc more interesting to me are the conflicts/procedural legal issues, full faith and credit etc in opening their courts

Yeah, my issue has always been the irreversible nature of some of these treatments -- given to kids....who, pretty much inherently, are not mature enough to make any kind of life decision like that.

Some European countries have pulled back on allowing these treatments for kids. And with good reason, IMO.
 
Yeah, my issue has always been the irreversible nature of some of these treatments -- given to kids....who, pretty much inherently, are not mature enough to make any kind of life decision like that.

Some European countries have pulled back on allowing these treatments for kids. And with good reason, IMO.
Yeah and I think the psychiatrist/psychologist stuff is murky. You can find doctors to support anything. If a kid has suicidal ideation that’s a mental health issue presumably so you’re going to fck with the wiring of a kid with mental health issues. And I know I’m generalizing as proponents are presupposing that ya fix the gender issue you fix the mental health problem. But I’m not so sure it’s that clear. To me it sounds like you’re making a radical decision on a child with mental health issues. If they came to you with a sound, clear mind and not threatening suicide it would in some ways be a more credible election. I don’t know.
 
Never seen someone get the highest grade. @BadWakeboarder well done. Frame it
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