Splittting hairs to say the least.
Hil and other Dem leaders screamed "illegitimate" from the mountaintops while their cable news/entertainment partners sang the chorus.
Do better
So who is proven right on election night?
- Thread starter cosmickid
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Hil and other Dem leaders screamed "illegitimate" from the mountaintops while their cable news/entertainment partners sang the chorus.
Do better
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Like I said, if you’re holding the rubric you get to decide.
Wrong.
What is a woman?
Can men be pregnant?
Do men have periods?
The "loon" is in the eye of the beholder.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
To be fair to Goat we’re talking about “Election deniers” in the context of loons.
Then show me a Dem who actually said the vote was fraudulent. Rigged. Fake. Anything like that.
Plenty of Dems whined it was influenced. We know they were right. Russian troll farms influenced voters. Plenty of Trump voters were duped by Sergei. But that's not the same as saying it was genuine fraud.
You can't be serious.
I guess I missed all those "Stop the Steal" rallies Hillary attended and/or encouraged after the 2016 election. And all the campaigning she did two years later and the endorsements that she doled out only for Democrats who supported a claim that she was a victim of election fraud and had the presidency stolen from her. Ridiculous.
As Mark suggested, she was whiny and bitter because she won the popular vote but lost the election. But she called Trump to concede and she attended his inauguration, steps the "I Was Robbed!" loser didn't take four years later. Your argument is a blatantly false equivalence.
On January 6, 2017, about a dozen Dems stood in Congress to object to the certification of Trump's win. After some discussion, the Vice President at the time, Biden, declared "Please come to order. The objection cannot be received," and it was gaveled down.
That was that. There was no further disruption. There was no storming of the Capitol. No one called for Biden's execution. And no Dem, to my knowledge, ran on any kind of a "Stop the Steal" or "Hillary was robbed" platform in 2018. On the contrary, Hill and Bill were viewed as a liability to most Dems and were almost invisible on the campaign trail. Few Dems were interested in resurrecting the Ghost of Clintons Past.
Who cares?Nonsense. It's not a question of perception. It's fact. There are literally hundreds of election denier candidates on the ballot this Fall. They're all Republicans. Some have taken a page straight from the Trump playbook and argued, preemptively, that the only way they can lose is if the election is stolen from them.
This is unprecedented in American history, and fvcking dangerous.
Democracy on the ballot—how many election deniers are on the ballot in November and what is their likelihood of success? | Brookings
The future of U.S. elections will be on the ballot in the 2022 midterms.www.brookings.edu
The Democrats always have a “GOP is bad” theme during elections.
Some of their greatest hits:
- Republicans will cause nuclear war
- Republicans will end Social security
- Republicans will end Medicare
- Republicans will end civil rights
- Republicans will put blacks back in chains
- Republicans want dirty water and dirty air
- Republicans want to starve children
- Republicans hate gays
- Republicans will cause oceans to rise
- Republicans will make Earth uninhabitable
- Republicans want people to smoke tobacco ( my favorite stupid theme)
- Now . . . . Republicans will end Democracy
You are splitting hairs and playing verbal games. The Ohio vote in 2004 was claimed to be fraudulent by several Democrats. Just like claims of fraud in certain states from the right. Neither claims the whole election is "fraudulent" but they do call into question the counts in specific state(s) that would have given their side the election if the vote was flipped.
In 2000, "5 people in robes" stole the election. In 2004, voting machines in Ohio and GOP "voter disenfranchisement" helped Bush steal the election. In 2008 and 2012, the elections were magically better when Obama won. In 2016 the Russians stole the election for Trump. In 2020 everything was suddenly copacetic again when Biden won.
The video has been posted several times of Democrat after Democrat claiming the election was stolen from them from 2000 forward. Hillary's dumbass is already laying the groundwork in 2024 with a pre-stolen election claim.
You say right wing polls yet many left wing polls have people like desantis winning easily as we near the election. I fully expect you to admit your left wing polls were dead wrong next Wednesday. Deal? Sienna is a left wing poller by the way.Is it the slew of October partisan GOP polls predicting a "red wave"? Or is it the actual trends showing up in the early voting, and the data that Simon Rosenberg provided in this Meidas Touch podcast earlier today? Hey who better than me to post something controversial, right?
This is a long (27 min video), and undoubtedly most people will not bother to check it out. But if for whatever reason the "Red Wave" being touted by the likes of bailey, dbm, DANC, ftw and others fails to materialize, and you find yourself wondering how all of those Trafalgar/ Rasmussen and myriad of polling outfits you've never heard of could all be wrong, then you can come back and watch this and know that it wasn't that the GOP was "robbed". Rather it's that polls can only tell so much and actual data and results can sometimes tell you things that pollsters miss...
There's been a few folks questioning these October polls- here's an article that raises some valid questions...
How polling averages could be underestimating the Democrats
Are Republican survey firms skewing midterm predictions?www.yahoo.com
Think about how all of a sudden the polls shifted in Oct, and as we witnessed on this very board the drumbeat was led by partisan GOP pollsters. There was a period of about 10 days when no independent, non-partisan polls were released but seemingly every day there was a new Ras, or Trafalgar or IA poll filling the void. Now it's to the point that national media is touting a huge GOP advantage, but that is not what the actual early vote totals (26 Million) and data (Dems +3 Million) is saying. Specifically in order to have a wave you have to have a dearth of votes from the opposition and that's normally what happens in midterms...
But Dem early vote in 2022 is actually higher in background states than it was in both 2018 and 2020. And according to Rosenberg who is part of the effort and privy to the data, Dems voting early increases Dem overall turnout.
While some people claim that it leads to a cannibalization of election day turnout, he points out that the Dems have concentrated their efforts to get the most reliable of Dem voters to vote early. By doing so, they are now able to concentrate on motivating lower propensity voters to the polls, instead of having to extend time and energy to turning out the regular Dem voters in the next few days and on election day...
Of course the Red wave could still grow into a tsunami on election day and wipe out the leads the Dems have. But at this point in time, that's not what the actual data is telling the people who are privy to the data and analyzing it. He sounds pretty confidant, so we'll see...
But if the "red wave doesn't drown us all and the main proponents and advocates of same on here are whining incessantly about "stolen elections", then redirect them back to this thread. And laugh at them...
InteractivePolls
@IAPolls2022
Siena Poll: FLORIDA Governor 2022 Ron DeSantis (R) 54% (+12) Charlie Crist (D) 42%
Independents Ron DeSantis (R) 56% (+20) Charlie Crist (D) 36% Hispanics Ron DeSantis (R) 61% (+25) Charlie Crist (D) 36% Miami-Dade Ron DeSantis (R) 54% (+11) Charlie Crist (D) 43%
teractivePolls
@IAPolls2022
·
1h
Cygnal Poll: NEVADA 2022 Election Senate (R) Adam Laxalt: 46% (+3) (D) Catherine Cortez Masto: 43% Governor (R) Joe Lombardo: 47% (+5) (D) Steve Sisolak: 42% Congressional Ballot Republicans: 50% (R+8) Democrats: 42%
See Bowl above. You can point to all the Democratic whining and moaning you want, but there is no lefty equivalent of "Stop the steal." You guys own this one. Deal with it.
Hmmm . . . .
Hillary Clinton Maintains 2016 Election ‘Was Not On the Level’: ‘We Still Don’t Know What Really Happened’
Hillary Clinton is sticking with her conviction that the 2016 presidential election was not conducted legitimately, saying the details surrounding her loss are still unclear."There was a widespread understanding that this election [in 2016] was not on the level," Clinton said during an interview...
Grow up
WATCH: Hillary Clinton Concedes Presidential Race To Donald Trump
"This is not the outcome we wanted or worked so hard for. I'm sorry we didn't win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country," the Democratic nominee told supporters.
www.npr.org
Clinton said stupid things such as:
But it never caught on with Democrats. I just did a quick scan from September of 2019 on this board, I don't see a lot of "Boy was Clinton right" posts. I might have missed them. But yes, there are D looks too. I think it was 2004 when D loons claimed Ohio was stolen. But again, it never became nearly as a mainstream in the party.
But it never caught on with Democrats. I just did a quick scan from September of 2019 on this board, I don't see a lot of "Boy was Clinton right" posts. I might have missed them. But yes, there are D looks too. I think it was 2004 when D loons claimed Ohio was stolen. But again, it never became nearly as a mainstream in the party.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
For a smart guy you think pretty simplistically. A dozen key Dems getting that sound bite out compounded by Russiagate! started significant partisan claims about Trump not being the rightfully elected president. You can choose to deny this but then you’re no better than what you’re failing against.
I will not vote for a 2020 election denier but I will not give you your desperately needed high ground either.
A lunatic is a lunatic. We had 4 years of "The Resistance" who claimed the Russians helped Trump steal an election. It is the same shit.
Again, the Democrats have attacked the integrity of EVERY Presidential election they have lost since I could vote. Every. Single. One. And I am in my early 40's. And they want to do a "Yeah, Well but we didn't attack the capitol." No, you rioted out on the streets in 2016. In D.C. and across the country. Additionally, 20 years of claiming an election was rigged against you, including the one in 2016, calls into question the process.
"Marriage is a sham. It is just a conspiracy to keep people in line. I flirted with that person but why do we have to label what we have? We should be free to go out and do what we want as long as we come back to each other because marriage is just a social construct......" 20 years of that and then, "Wait, what? You cheated on me? How could you disrespect our marriage like that?" That is Democrats.
Elections in this country are free and fair. Election fraud is rare and statistically insignificant. Trump brought over 60 legal challenges after the 2020 election and lost every one. He lost every recount and audit. And yet most of your candidates this Fall cling to the fiction that the 2020 election was stolen, and that election fraud is happening right now, facts be damned. Some hint that they won't concede if they lose, and argue that the only way they can lose is if there's fraud. That's fvcked up and beyond dangerous. The fact that you don't care about any of this and/or are oblivious to it is fvcked up as well.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
You should’ve kept looking sir.Hmmm . . . .
WATCH: Hillary Clinton Concedes Presidential Race To Donald Trump
"This is not the outcome we wanted or worked so hard for. I'm sorry we didn't win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country," the Democratic nominee told supporters.
2020 even. These sound bites aren’t easy to find and I can’t imagine why that’s the case?
Hillary Clinton Maintains 2016 Election ‘Was Not On the Level’: ‘We Still Don’t Know What Really Happened’
Hillary Clinton is sticking with her conviction that the 2016 presidential election was not conducted legitimately, saying the details surrounding her loss are still unclear."There was a widespread understanding that this election [in 2016] was not on the level," Clinton said during an interview...
So? She did concede 2016 . . . which is more than Trump did in 2020 . . . or 2021, or 2022.You should’ve kept looking sir.
2020 even. These sound bites aren’t easy to find and I can’t imagine why that’s the case?
Hillary Clinton Maintains 2016 Election ‘Was Not On the Level’: ‘We Still Don’t Know What Really Happened’
Hillary Clinton is sticking with her conviction that the 2016 presidential election was not conducted legitimately, saying the details surrounding her loss are still unclear."There was a widespread understanding that this election [in 2016] was not on the level," Clinton said during an interview...
What's your point? Are you contending that the 2020 election was stolen?
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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It's not the same shit. Own your idiots, and we'll own ours. Don't try to both sides things that can't be both sides-ed.
The idea of being reasonable and voting for larger government is an oxymoron 😉
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I haven't read a single Democrat claim actual fraud in 2016. Provide me with one.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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Ah now you’re moving the goalposts. I see it now. You’re narrowing the “election denier” category to only those accusing fraud happened. But that’s not a comprehensive definition (I dare say even though as a non-Democrat I don’t have the latest rubric).
Yes, Goat, democrats declared Trump’s victory to be illegitimate and blamed the GOP and Russia! on it.
"I would love to challenge the Electoral College vote because our election was badly tainted by everything from cyber-sabotage by Vladimir Putin, to deliberate voter suppression by Republicans in numerous swing states," Raskin told the Baltimore Sun
By all indications it should be a bloodbath. I look at tightening races like NY Gov, Oregon Gov, and Washington Senate as indicators that Democrats could be really on the rocks.
How are those races being tightly contested? It's the equivalent of Republicans having to rally to defend seats in Mississippi or Wyoming.
I love Tiffany Smiley and will be ecstatic if she takes out that snaggle toothed old hag.
How are those races being tightly contested? It's the equivalent of Republicans having to rally to defend seats in Mississippi or Wyoming.
I love Tiffany Smiley and will be ecstatic if she takes out that snaggle toothed old hag.
I'm not moving anything. That's exactly where the goalposts have been.
Raskin is an idiot, but if that quote is the best you can do, you've proved my point.
Some might not really be as close as you think. Most states have rather inadequate polling. Will just have to see on Tuesday.
But yes, it's more likely the Dems take it hard than the other way around.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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That’s where the goalposts in your head have been. They aren’t overtly stated. Surely you understand this.
McGovern, Waters, Jackson-Lee and many others all objected to the EC ratification. But you don’t care. Got it.
I think you're a pretty smart guy, which leaves me baffled as to why you continue to advance this absurd, false equivalence.
I don't give a shit about "high ground" in this context. And I'm certainly not defending the Clintons. I can't stand them, and have made that clear numerous times on this Forum. There's plenty of dirt in the Democratic party. But, on this singular issue, this dangerous "Stop the Steal" and election fraud bullshit, the GOP, as Goat said, owns it. And is running with it.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
The Clinton’s and raskin and waters and Jackson Lee and more than ten others. But they don’t count. I’d love to know why. But not really. I don’t care. We’re different you and I. Election denying is a cancelable activity to me - but you (and Goat it seems) find ways to not really care. And that’s cool!
All this election denier drama about nothing. America loses until the citizens wake up and get rid of these 2 parties. Just a bunch of drama to divide people and deflect from the fact that they are spending Billions on war and want to get Nuclear WW3 underway. That money needs to be used for America or even better left in the American citizens hands. The duopoly's civil war and division is leading to the violence. They get what they deserve from crazies like the guy who attacked Pelosi. It's the message they are spewing. Meanwhile, the rest of population (99+%) is getting along just fine.
I’ve said it before I don’t think the election was stolen. That said having this many perceive problems exist is a problem. We desperately need reform and uniformity. Get an Id. Vote in person with limited, narrow exceptions. Designate uniform voting centers based on community population. Have two days to vote. Both national holidays.
No, you need to pay better attention. I'm not saying election denial is cool. I'm not saying I don't care. I'm saying it sucks, and 99% of this particular cancer is on your side of the aisle so you guys need to get your shit together.
The 1% on our side? They suck too, and I won't support them. Happy?
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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LOL. This is exactly what the people making this bullshit up are trying to accomplish.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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But they didn’t even exist until I just proved it to you - you even said you read about it but we know that was a lie.
You couldn’t fathom that this is once again a dangerous version of democratic rhetoric that leads to a cascade of things - much like Defund the Police, much like identity and intersectional politics and much like COVID vaccine messaging.
I’d like to know why.
Also comes down to how a person defines fraud. What do you think of the FBI and the deep state colluding with big tech to suppress any stories that might hurt Biden but they know are true like Hunter's laptop? Which according to that Politico survey clearly changed the outcome. Or pushing stories like Russian collusion that they clearly knew were false?
We don't even need to get into illegally changing voting laws, not following the legally passed laws in place, not performing any signature match in any swing state, all of the irregularities that all benefited Biden and only occurred in swing states, etc.
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