No, I am saying Crean is now at a school that is committed to giving its coaches what is needed to win. Georgia is a big league athletic department, not a mid-major like IU.
Since Crean's class is 6th, do we need to adjust
- Thread starter Tegray1
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No, I am saying Crean is now at a school that is committed to giving its coaches what is needed to win. Georgia is a big league athletic department, not a mid-major like IU.
Georgia has big-time college football money. IU does not. IU Basketball however is in a different stratosphere than Georgia. It was a major step down for Crean. His career, and notoriety peaked at IU, and he is now living off of that name.
I really don't care. If you are going to act and talk like an idiot at least win like Knight. I hope Clappy Tannerson doesn't pick gum up off the floor on national tv and put it back in his mouth down there like he did here. Hope he has a draw string as well....Marquette fans tried to warn us, I just thought they were mad.
You need to understand the game a little better. Teams are good offensively because they have good offensive players, not because they run some magical offense that can't be defended. That is a universal truth of basketball at every level from grade school to the NBA. The job of a coach at the college level is to provide instruction and technical help that make individual players better. There has never been an offense designed in the history of the game that can take 5 skill-deficient players and make them a good offensive team. Conversely, there are a dozen different offensive systems that can succeed at a high level with skilled offensive players. Calipari's dribble-drive, Bob Knight's true motion, Bo Ryan's swing, Dick/Tony Bennett's mover-blocker, John Wooden/Denny Crum's high-post, are all championship-caliber offenses with the right players - and all suck if you try to run them with kids who lack ball skills.
Coaching does come into play in understanding how to attack a zone or a junk defense, or how to counter specific defensive tactics like double-teams, traps, etc. Tom Crean was certainly no genius when it came to that. In fairness though, I never saw one of his teams be any worse than Bob Knight's embarrassing effort vs Pepperdine in the NCAAT. It looked as though he hadn't watched a second of film and had no idea what Pepperdine did on defense. At that stage in his tenure, I'm not sure that wasn't the case.
OTOH, defense is the true reflection of great coaching. Being able to take away the strengths of opponent's individual players, getting 5 people to work together to force the ball into bad spots, understanding and teaching complex concepts like when to help, proper body positioning and placement, unraveling and spoiling opponent's tendencies, etc.
Guys that often get less credit than they deserve because they win big with great talent are usually damn good defensive coaches. Calipari, Pitino, Boeheim come to mind. Bob Knight recruited very good offensive players and made great defensive teams. He didn't turn chicken shit into chicken salad. Izzo, Bo Ryan, Jay Wright, Coach K did/do the same. When John Beilein realized he had to get his teams one level higher to contend for championships he brought in someone to help him with defense.
If Tom Crean ever decides to subvert his ego and overcome his personal insecurity about getting the credit, he might get to that level. At IU, he surrounded himself with unimpressive assistants who wouldn't challenge his thinking and didn't pose a threat to his need to get the credit. There's a reason none of those guys were getting head coaching offers even when IU was winning B1G championships and being ranked in the top ten.
It's really pretty simple. To win at a high level, Archie has to recruit and develop better offensive players. The guy knows defense. Watching the development of Juwan Morgan and Al Durham gives me hope. All of our players need to work to improve between now and next season, and we need a true shooter. Defending is all effort and concentration if it has been taught correctly. Archie is one of the best in the game at teaching defense.
Crean, on the other hand has to get some clue as to how to teach defense and get kids to play it or he will be at Georgia exactly what he was at IU. It would also benefit him to be able to get his players to understand the importance of not pissing away 25 possessions a game by playing too fast and making bad decisions.
What did Crean not have available at IU that limited his success here? Please be specific as to what was not provided for him that would have made him more successful.
I'm going to state for the record that I believe the only thing that limited Tom Crean's success at Indiana was Tom Crean. I think you are grasping at straws and your statements are influenced by your disdain for Fred Glass. Fred Glass might correctly be blamed for 99 problems ( though I will also go on record as saying that most of those complaints are petty bs and mostly fans needing a scapegoat) but failing to adequately support Tom Crean sure ain't one of them.
Being butthurt because IU basketball didn't achieve this year what you wanted it to achieve isn't a good reason to engage in false revisionist history and change the narrative of Tom Crean's performance during his time here.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
I wish Coach Crean well. But his success or failure has nothing to do with IU. We cut ties with him so we cut ties. It means he has no further impact negative or positive for our team. I am focused on who we are getting in and what we are doing with what we have.
Lol facts.
Crean just led Georgia to it's worst season in at least over a decade. Worse than any Fox led team.
Now he's brought in a class of 4 6'6" players. One is there for one year. The other is a top 60ish guy. The other two are around 100.
Really good rankings...they all play the same position.
Please tell me you're not stupid enough to think that just accumulating ranked players regardless of floor balance leads to immediate success, especially depending on freshmen, coached by Crean.
Well I'm sure you do which is the only fact that matters in your dumb take.
At least now we know roster imbalance wasn’t just an experiment he decided to inflict on us alone.
This forum has hit rock bottom, with the trolls now praising Tom Crean. Just shut it down.
Or leave it up, as a running testament to the glaring need for mental health care in our society.
Or leave it up, as a running testament to the glaring need for mental health care in our society.
On Bob Knight's worst day of his worst year of coaching he had better offense than the garbage that was displayed this year by this coach. Bob Knight had far less Talent in many seasons then Archie had this year. the next time you want to compare and IU team under Knight in the NCAA tournament to something that Archie coached you should probably think again. Wait, that's right everything this year was Romeo's fault.
What did Crean not get that he would have somewhere else? Crean essentially had a blank check to do whatever he wanted including private jet use that racked up the largest recruiting budget in the country.
If I’m wrong about this, provide specific areas of deficiency.
Yeah I'm sure Knight benched people who weren't playing hard or well that day instead of this year when we were down 30 at Minnesota and continue to play the starters.
Two points here
1. It’s Tom crean coaching so you know they will suck
2. The kid he has coming in only chose Georgia because he’s from there. It wasn’t because of crean. He will go there and shoot 59 times a game
1. It’s Tom crean coaching so you know they will suck
2. The kid he has coming in only chose Georgia because he’s from there. It wasn’t because of crean. He will go there and shoot 59 times a game
I don’t know that lineup of Jadlow, Edwards, H
an athletic department that understands how to win
That was some amazing offense from that Knight coached game. Yeah... that was much better than every game under CAM this year. Overstate often?
He did go to the final four more than our current coach has done and more than Painter
Crean has been around longer. Law of averages worked in his favor. He still sucks. You guys are better off without his creepiness and French kisses
He’s gonna kick your Kentucky ass next year and this board is gonna laugh their asses off at you!!!
You lost to Crean twice!!!! Lmao he’s such a terrible coach though
Victorbear loves crean. I cant believe this guys wastes his life sitting on this board trashing iu all day long. He must be miserable inside.
You will probably be more welcomed there than you are here
We have a shot clock now. We held Purdue to 48 at home and lost. So keep comparing Archie's offense to Knight's offense. 0-6 this year when scoring under 60.
QUOTE="speroni, post: 2642701, member: 4822"]That was some amazing offense from that Knight coached game. Yeah... that was much better than every game under CAM this year. Overstate often?[/QUOTE]
QUOTE="speroni, post: 2642701, member: 4822"]That was some amazing offense from that Knight coached game. Yeah... that was much better than every game under CAM this year. Overstate often?[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
If you are defending IU's offensive (and I mean, truly offensive) performance at Minnesota in 1994 by suggesting it was better than any of IU's games this year, then any credibility you may have accumulated has been flushed down the toilet.
Yes, IU had some VERY bad offensive games this year. And also had some very good offensive games this year. But no game was worse than the 1994 Minnesota game. Certainly your claim that NO Knight coached IU game was worse than any game this year is complete BS.
[/QUOTE]
Archie has never had a great offense time will tell and no I hated Crean, but do find it amusing that he is recruiting so much better at the ever popular basketball school of Georgia over Archie at IU
Better than the 13 out of 14 we lost. When we didn't move, didn't screen and held the ball until Romeo would shoot. The same Romeo that the Archie clan has blamed the season on. You may want to watch some video of Knight's team before you get your free ticket to the NIT. Instead of looking up old articles.
If you are defending IU's offensive (and I mean, truly offensive) performance at Minnesota in 1994 by suggesting it was better than any of IU's games this year, then any credibility you may have accumulated has been flushed down the toilet.
Yes, IU had some VERY bad offensive games this year. And also had some very good offensive games this year. But no game was worse than the 1994 Minnesota game. Certainly your claim that NO Knight coached IU game was worse than any game this year is complete BS.[/QUOTE]
If you are defending IU's offensive (and I mean, truly offensive) performance at Minnesota in 1994 by suggesting it was better than any of IU's games this year, then any credibility you may have accumulated has been flushed down the toilet.
Yes, IU had some VERY bad offensive games this year. And also had some very good offensive games this year. But no game was worse than the 1994 Minnesota game. Certainly your claim that NO Knight coached IU game was worse than any game this year is complete BS.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I watched that game. Live. I have NO desire to watch it again. I was a student at IU during the heydays of Coach Knight. My freshman class interviewed him as a class project. I have seen PLENTY of games that Knight coached at IU. And none worse than the pathetic effort that IU produced at MN. I'd take most of IU's losses this year over that stinker. And bringing up Romeo may serve to distract others from your claim - but not me.
And yes, I did notice how you moved the goalpost on what you claimed earlier.
Archie has never had a great offense time will tell and no I hated Crean, but do find it amusing that he is recruiting so much better at the ever popular basketball school of Georgia over Archie at IU[/QUOTE]
You just hate arhie and iu.
You just hate arhie and iu.
I didn't intentionally move it. I wasn't clear enough earlier. I always assume everyone knows what I'm thinking when I email or text. Bad habit .
Oh, I watched that game. Live. I have NO desire to watch it again. I was a student at IU during the heydays of Coach Knight. My freshman class interviewed him as a class project. I have seen PLENTY of games that Knight coached at IU. And none worse than the pathetic effort that IU produced at MN. I'd take most of IU's losses this year over that stinker. And bringing up Romeo may serve to distract others from your claim - but not me.
And yes, I did notice how you moved the goalpost on what you claimed earlier.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I watched that game. Live. I have NO desire to watch it again. I was a student at IU during the heydays of Coach Knight. My freshman class interviewed him as a class project. I have seen PLENTY of games that Knight coached at IU. And none worse than the pathetic effort that IU produced at MN. I'd take most of IU's losses this year over that stinker. And bringing up Romeo may serve to distract others from your claim - but not me.
And yes, I did notice how you moved the goalpost on what you claimed earlier.[/QUOTE]
You just hate arhie and iu.[/QUOTE]
I truly believe Archie will have the boys ready for a damn good season next yr. y’all beat the number 2 seed twice this yr in Michigan state and looked very good down the stretch this yr
Good post. Really solid. I want to mention one aspect of offense that creates opportunities for lesser offensively skilled players: taking open shots, and moving without the ball to get them.
If you hold the ball and stand, the time ticks away and every second plays to the defense. It requires greater skill to score from that position. And that is something that was a problem for IU this year. They didnt move well without the ball or move the ball well to open shooters.
Davis is someone who helps a lot in this capacity because he passes well and looks for passes quickly.
Every kid should have the mentality that if you catch the ball in a good position to shoot and are open, you should hit it. The game does not need 1000 dribbles to score, and that has been a problem for kids developing through youth ball where they are all learning how to dribble 3 balls while balancing a spoon on their noses, while fewer coaches are teaching spacing, angles, and movement without the ball.
That's my 2 cents on offense.
