SI story---Discuss

Jan 14, 2005
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No usually they just get the money from you Mr Big Bucks. It was mentioned on radio because all this nonsense IU has no money.
Literally no one has said IU has no money. Everyone knows IU has 10 million dollars. Some people don't think we ought give our basketball coach 10 million dollars for the privilege of not employing him anymore.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
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How is Tom Brew an award-winning journalist? He is a terrible writer! I just detected several grammatical in this article and I didn't even read all of it. His writing style is repulsive!
“. . . several grammatical. . .”? Sounds like a terrible writer to me.
 
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jet812

All-Big Ten
Feb 28, 2008
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Literally no one has said IU has no money. Everyone knows IU has 10 million dollars. Some people don't think we ought give our basketball coach 10 million dollars for the privilege of not employing him anymore.
Yep, some confuse won’t spend with don’t have...
 

Sobchak_Security

Benchwarmer
Jan 4, 2020
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Financial considerations aside, it doesn't seem the IU Way to part ways with a coach this quickly. I can't see it. IU simply isn't a school to fire someone 4 years into a 7 year contract for anything less than misconduct. Even if we miss the tourney this season (I still think we'll make it) the narrative will be that we certainly would have made it last season and the future looks bright. And so on.

And like others have said, it might not be best to fire him this year anyway. It's not as if there's an obvious successor waiting.
You honestly think IU makes the tournament this year? Show me your quick W/L projection for the remaining games.
 

TR32

All-American
Nov 20, 2009
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if he doesn’t make the tourney he will be fired. 100000000% percent. Bet the house on that.

I'm a lot more certain they aren't making the tourney than I am he won't be back. They've squandered all the most plausible wins and are left with a few unlikely games remaining. They need 2 wins and they need to stay in front of Maryland and it doesn't appear like it is going to happen. Things are shaping up to end really ugly.

If I were a reporter I would ask Miller if he needs to win at Purdue to keep his job. Because he does. But I don't know if it will be this year or next.
 

TR32

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The article was a good one. I agree with a lot of it. It's a fair assessment.

And by the way, some of you guys don't seem to realize that Gunn is a junior in high school. I've been saying all year either TJD comes back or Miller has to pull a rabbit out of a hat to avoid being really bad next year. Losing out won't make things any easier.
 
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Sobchak_Security

Benchwarmer
Jan 4, 2020
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I'm a lot more certain they aren't making the tourney than I am he won't be back. They've squandered all the most plausible wins and are left with a few unlikely games remaining. They need 2 wins and they need to stay in front of Maryland and it doesn't appear like it is going to happen. Things are shaping up to end really ugly.

If I were a reporter I would ask Miller if he needs to win at Purdue to keep his job. Because he does. But I don't know if it will be this year or next.
Based on roster talent, coaching, incoming recruits, and recent history we won’t beat Purdue anytime soon.
 

demunn

Redshirt
Mar 15, 2017
134
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Literally no one has said IU has no money. Everyone knows IU has 10 million dollars. Some people don't think we ought give our basketball coach 10 million dollars for the privilege of not employing him anymore.

They were the idiots to give him a 7 year contract, they should spend to make up for the stupid decision. What are they going to do, wait for the BB program to be like the football program a few years back so they have to give out free tickets to get students to come?

If Archie had true BB integrity, he'd exit himself outta here and admit this is not a fixable situation . They could recruit Lebron James and it wouldn't save this team.
 

Al Bino

All-Big Ten
Dec 18, 2001
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I don’t think Glass not saying what he said would’ve made a difference in how the team played, no.

But what it would’ve done is left his options open, made a clear indication that he was committed to a successful program, etc.

FTR, I don’t think he should’ve said it was a make-or-break year or that Archie was in a win-or-else situation. I just think it was a mistake for him to suggest that no matter how the team performed, Archie’s job was safe. And I sure as hell wouldn’t have scheduled my retirement (probably deliberately, though we’ll never know) to ensure that was the case.

So much speculation, so many conclusions drawn without facts.
 
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crazed_hoosier2

Hall of Famer
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So much speculation, so many conclusions drawn without facts.

The only speculation I make is that FG deliberately scheduled his retirement to make a coaching change logistically impossible. And I noted it as such.

But the conclusions I draw are self-evident. Glass answering the “make or break” question as he did limited his (and his successor’s) options after the 2019-20 season.

Anyway, my gripe has nothing to do with Glass trying to motivate Miller. Not sure where you inferred that. Had they cut bait with Archie after last season, as I thought they should, we’d potentially be one year closer to cleaning up this mess. As it is, we’re not only sitting here talking about a 5th year in the wake of a season that looks to end around 500 and diminished recruiting, but a 6th year if he miraculously finishes in the top third of the conference next season.
 
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ndbuddy

Recruit
Sep 17, 2003
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How is Tom Brew an award-winning journalist? He is a terrible writer! I just detected several grammatical in this article and I didn't even read all of it. His writing style is repulsive!
And you are an English major ?
 

Al Bino

All-Big Ten
Dec 18, 2001
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The only speculation I make is that FG deliberately scheduled his retirement to make a coaching change logistically impossible. And I noted it as such.

But the conclusions I draw are self-evident. Glass answering the “make or break” question as he did limited his (and his successor’s) options after the 2019-20 season.

Anyway, my gripe has nothing to do with Glass trying to motivate Miller. Not sure where you inferred that. Had they cut bait with Archie after last season, as I thought they should, we’d potentially be one year closer to cleaning up this mess. As it is, we’re not only sitting here talking about a 5th year in the wake of a season that looks to end around 500 and diminished recruiting, but a 6th year if he miraculously finishes in the top third of the conference next season.

BS, FG did NOTHING that limited his options. Time after time, ADs and Owners give coaches their "the coach is not in trouble" speech to the the press and then the coach ends up getting canned in a short time. Once again, pure speculation.

And this speculation that he retired to make a coaching change impossible, are you SERIOUS? You REALLY think he altered his life for that reason? Man, that is out there. Why would he do that if he truly wanted to continue as AD.

As to my inferring anything, how should I have taken this?
"First he made it clear that 19-20 wasn’t a make-or-break year for Archie, basically giving him carte blanche to have yet another mediocre season without fearing his job "
MY conclusion after reading that statement is by FG making that assessment of the program, he allowed Archie to coast since his job was not in jeopardy. Conversely, if FG would NOT have made that statement, Archie would have worked harder. Seems like you wanted FG to motivate Archie to me.
 
Jan 14, 2005
2,520
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They were the idiots to give him a 7 year contract, they should spend to make up for the stupid decision. What are they going to do, wait for the BB program to be like the football program a few years back so they have to give out free tickets to get students to come?

If Archie had true BB integrity, he'd exit himself outta here and admit this is not a fixable situation . They could recruit Lebron James and it wouldn't save this team.
Every new coach gets a contract like that, and it's structured like that for a specific reason.

Lolz. Archie should just let IU back out of the deal, because...integrity? Shouldn't IU also demonstrate integrity by honoring its word? It's not like Archie committed fraud.
 

crazed_hoosier2

Hall of Famer
Mar 28, 2011
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Seems like you wanted FG to motivate Archie to me.

No I didn’t. I wanted Glass to fire Archie if he had another crappy season.

Archie had another crappy season. Glass didn’t fire him. Just like he promised he wouldn’t.

You know how I think he should’ve answered that question? He should’ve said something like “We don’t have make-or-break seasons. I’ll sit down with Archie after the season, as I do with every IU coach every season, and evaluate how the past season went and what we can expect in the upcoming one.”

No commitments. No threats. No ultimatums. Just a reassurance that somebody was at the wheel...and somebody who knows what road we should be on and whether or not we actually are.
 
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crazed_hoosier2

Hall of Famer
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Name a coach that is NOT hyper-competitive.

I don't have any doubt that Archie is a very competitive person. I certainly haven't suggested otherwise -- so I don't know why you keep posting as if I have. My problem with him isn't his will to succeed, it's his ability (or, more accurately, inability) to succeed.

The general theme of what I'm talking about isn't external motivation for better results, it's accountability for the results we've actually had.

Fred Glass saying what he said -- and then buttressing his earlier words with announcing that he'd be retiring a little over a month after the season would end -- basically abdicated (albeit unintentionally, I think) any sense of holding the basketball coach accountable for the results of the then-upcoming season.

He was asked if it was a make-or-break season. He answered that it wasn't -- which insinuates that there could be such a thing, but the upcoming season wasn't it. Put another way, it didn't matter what the results ended up being, Archie was safe. And when the May retirement was announced, that made it official. It was like Cortés burning his ships.

You say he still could've fired Archie despite his words and actions. How? You think an outgoing AD is going to replace the coach of our premier sports program a month before he walks out the door and hands the keys to some other guy?
 

.Gerdis

Senior
Dec 10, 2003
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Name a coach that is NOT hyper-competitive.

Nothing wrong with being hyper competitive. As long as you can handle the pressure, and be a strong confident leader. If a leader wilts under that pressure it can lead to a rudderless team and a toxic environment.
 
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demunn

Redshirt
Mar 15, 2017
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Every new coach gets a contract like that, and it's structured like that for a specific reason.

Lolz. Archie should just let IU back out of the deal, because...integrity? Shouldn't IU also demonstrate integrity by honoring its word? It's not like Archie committed fraud.

Companies make mistakes hiring execs like this all the time, it's time to have a back-room "you can resign or be fired conversation--you choose" meeting after we finish 10th or 11th in the B10 and worst season since 09-10 with a likely 12-14 record.

So honor the contract but both sides need to quit pretending that this is going to work. Nice guy, wrong fit, unacceptable performance for what is supposed to be an "elite" program. Elite is no longer an accurate moniker for this program if they don't cut bait after this season.
 

Al Bino

All-Big Ten
Dec 18, 2001
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I don't have any doubt that Archie is a very competitive person. I certainly haven't suggested otherwise -- so I don't know why you keep posting as if I have. My problem with him isn't his will to succeed, it's his ability (or, more accurately, inability) to succeed.

The general theme of what I'm talking about isn't external motivation for better results, it's accountability for the results we've actually had.

Fred Glass saying what he said -- and then buttressing his earlier words with announcing that he'd be retiring a little over a month after the season would end -- basically abdicated (albeit unintentionally, I think) any sense of holding the basketball coach accountable for the results of the then-upcoming season.

He was asked if it was a make-or-break season. He answered that it wasn't -- which insinuates that there could be such a thing, but the upcoming season wasn't it. Put another way, it didn't matter what the results ended up being, Archie was safe. And when the May retirement was announced, that made it official. It was like Cortés burning his ships.

You say he still could've fired Archie despite his words and actions. How? You think an outgoing AD is going to replace the coach of our premier sports program a month before he walks out the door and hands the keys to some other guy?

I didn't make that post in response to you.

Once again, "basically abdicated", "insinuates", you are taking small facts and then drawing conclusions out of almost thin air.

If I have my version of the chronology of events correct, FG made those comments about not the season not being make or break before he announced his retirement. SO my point of Archie still not necessarily being safe were based on FG still being the AD. Many coaches have been fired after the dreaded vote of confidence.

And this if this year implodes like it appears it will, Dolson could very well fire Archie. Many times an AD will want "his" guy at the helm of a school's most prominent sport. I hope he does!
 
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Jan 14, 2005
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Companies make mistakes hiring execs like this all the time, it's time to have a back-room "you can resign or be fired conversation--you choose" meeting after we finish 10th or 11th in the B10 and worst season since 09-10 with a likely 12-14 record.

So honor the contract but both sides need to quit pretending that this is going to work. Nice guy, wrong fit, unacceptable performance for what is supposed to be an "elite" program. Elite is no longer an accurate moniker for this program if they don't cut bait after this season.
Who is pretending, and how?

If I was Archie and they had a "resign or be fired" conversation with me, I'd say, "Okay, fire me. Just make sure to keep cutting that $134,615.38 check every two weeks."

Sure, I'd also start packing up my office, but still. What does he care if he gets fired? He doesn't have to work another day in his life if he doesn't want to. He probably wants to, but he will end up getting another job somewhere, even if he gets fired.
 
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dbmhoosier

All-Big Ten
Nov 23, 2005
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Who is pretending, and how?

If I was Archie and they had a "resign or be fired" conversation with me, I'd say, "Okay, fire me. Just make sure to keep cutting that $134,615.38 check every two weeks."

Sure, I'd also start packing up my office, but still. What does he care if he gets fired? He doesn't have to work another day in his life if he doesn't want to. He probably wants to, but he will end up getting another job somewhere, even if he gets fired.

You don't actually fire him. Just make sure there are some very lofty expectations for year 5. Deep tourney run, finish top 3 in the B1G, top 10 recruiting class coming in, etc. You fail to meet even one of those metrics you're gone after year 5 no matter what. Hopefully he walks for another job rather than be humiliated or least settles for a smaller lump sum right now. The latter is very likely if Dolson pursued it.
 
Jan 14, 2005
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You don't actually fire him. Just make sure there are some very lofty expectations for year 5. Deep tourney run, finish top 3 in the B1G, top 10 recruiting class coming in, etc. You fail to meet even one of those metrics you're gone after year 5 no matter what. Hopefully he walks for another job rather than be humiliated.
People will sign up for humiliation for a lot less than 10 mil. I'm pretty sure Archie isn't going to waive a 10 mil buyout due to fear of failing to meet expectations. If that were the case, he would have quit after game 1 when ISU pasted us.
 
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dbmhoosier

All-Big Ten
Nov 23, 2005
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People will sign up for humiliation for a lot less than 10 mil. I'm pretty sure Archie isn't going to waive a 10 mil buyout due to fear of failing to meet expectations. If that were the case, he would have quit after game 1 when ISU pasted us.

He's not going to get anywhere near that anyways as he'll get another job much like Crean which offsets the buyout. I'd be willing to bet he'd take $4-5M to walk now if he knows he's not getting extended.
 
Jan 14, 2005
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He's not going to get anywhere near that anyways as he'll get another job much like Crean which offsets the buyout. I'd be willing to bet he'd take $4-5M to walk now if he knows he's not getting extended.
He probably will get another job, but even so, the only way it makes sense to waive his buyout is if IU us dangling more money.

So, the only way he takes 5M to walk now is if he thinks he will make more than 5M in the next 3 years at his new job. After he gets fired from IU, that probably isn't realistic. Penn State, for example, paid Pat Chambers 900k a year. That's the kind of job Archie is probably getting if he walks. He won't make anything if he takes a year off like Crean did.
 

snarlcakes

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Sep 9, 2009
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People will sign up for humiliation for a lot less than 10 mil. I'm pretty sure Archie isn't going to waive a 10 mil buyout due to fear of failing to meet expectations. If that were the case, he would have quit after game 1 when ISU pasted us.

He wouldn’t waive a buyout, but it would be in Archie’s best career interest to leave after this year and take a smaller buyout if offered. The longer Archie stays at IU the worse off his career will be in the long run.

He at least would have the excuses of being fired to soon and covid if he was let go after this season. Next, year is going be even a bigger shit show if TJD leaves and is going to do nothing good for his future career. He’s still a young dude and it would be wise of him to get out of Bloomington ASAP.
 
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Al Bino

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He wouldn’t waive a buyout, but it would be in Archie’s best career interest to leave after this year and take a smaller buyout if offered. The longer Archie stays at IU the worse off his career will be in the long run.

He at least would have the excuses of being fired to soon and covid if he was let go after this season. Next, year is going be even a bigger shit show if TJD leaves and is going to do nothing good for his future career. He’s still a young dude and it would be wise of him to get out of Bloomington ASAP.

Good for him and hopefully good for IU.
 
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Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
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He's not going to get anywhere near that anyways as he'll get another job much like Crean which offsets the buyout. I'd be willing to bet he'd take $4-5M to walk now if he knows he's not getting extended.

Scott will find that much with two phone calls.
 
Jan 14, 2005
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He wouldn’t waive a buyout, but it would be in Archie’s best career interest to leave after this year and take a smaller buyout if offered. The longer Archie stays at IU the worse off his career will be in the long run.

He at least would have the excuses of being fired to soon and covid if he was let go after this season. Next, year is going be even a bigger shit show if TJD leaves and is going to do nothing good for his future career. He’s still a young dude and it would be wise of him to get out of Bloomington ASAP.
Eh, that's speculation. You could end up being right or wrong. I wouldn't take any risks on 10 mil...although it might depend on how much I had in the bank.
 
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