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Serious SOTU thread

Now see that's interesting. As I've related before, maybe the far left wingnuts aren't actually the far left and account for more of the party than we give credit. If you were a moderate Dem I don't know how you don't give a very positive rating to the speech. I mean the guy isn't going to lay out step by step his plan to remedy all our ills. It's a pep rally with a theme
I think when things get tough, people want to hear more concrete examples of what is going to be done. Things are very tough on the domestic front right now and they apparently were not hearing enough meat and potatoes. I saw that Axelrod mentioned that the speech turned into a laundry list (which frankly these particular speeches often do) and I don't think people are looking for that right now.

Gas is almost $3.60 a gallon in Indiana, a pound of the cheap ground beef is going for like 4.99 a pound if you don't find it on sale, depending on the day you show up at the store certain items are becoming more scarce on top of the higher price. I saw him mention the federal voter rights bill again in the last part I saw. Next to nobody cares about that. I don't believe that he can really do much to help inflation now, but he should have been hammering on bread and instead it sounds like he wandered into circuses territory too much.
 
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Fair. I would add that I liked the get the masks off of kids in school, and no mention of Jan 6. Not a single word about Jan 6, Trump, the end of democracy blah blah blah that infatuate people on here but normal Americans don't care about anymore. While perhaps short on answers he pivoted from the Squad on many issues and touched on the issues that actually concern most Americans. I'd give him a B+
Yes. I actually meant to include kudos for not pandering to the MSNBC crowd with trumptrumptrump. I can't do better than a B though, due to the domestic blow byes.
 
I don't know one can get a big bounce any more. Back in the ancient days we had network news and network news only. So an hour on tv watched by everyone was a massive opportunity to get out one's position.

Today the positions are on cable 24x7, on social media 24x7. This one hour by the president is blunted first because of the amount of news we now consume and 2) because the way our tribal news makes us more partisan to begin with.

I saw someone last weekend mention that the more news people watch, the more partisan they are. Now there might be a chicken-egg debate here. But if there is, I will go onto the side that a steady feed of partisan news increases partisanship over partisans seek out partisan news.
Oh yeah I watched it on Fox News. I left it on for maybe ten minutes after and of course they trashed it. It's funny what you say about a steady feed of partisan news. Soccer has changed my work-life greatly because there are games on constantly. So I usually have that on in the background. I also like some series like Chasing Classic Cars etc. that I'll leave on. But so many offices (lobbies) and individual offices leave tv news on all day as opposed to games/shows. CNN. Fox News. This constant messaging has to have an impact on us
 
I think when things get tough, people want to hear more concrete examples of what is going to be done. Things are very tough on the domestic front right now and they apparently were not hearing enough meat and potatoes. I saw that Axelrod mentioned that the speech turned into a laundry list (which frankly these particular speeches often do) and I don't think people are looking for that right now.

Gas is almost $3.60 a gallon in Indiana, a pound of the cheap ground beef is going for like 4.99 a pound if you don't find it on sale, depending on the day you show up at the store certain items are becoming more scarce on top of the higher price. I saw him mention the federal voter rights bill again in the last part I saw. Next to nobody cares about that. I don't believe that he can really do much to help inflation now, but he should have been hammering on bread and instead it sounds like he wandered into circuses territory too much.
The laundry list stuff was literally read like a laundry list. Trans, Voting, etc. Just a sentence or two and on to the next one. As for the meaty issues like meat, he said what he thought the issue was and what would remedy it. I disagree with him. But he covered it to the extent possible in that forum
 
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The laundry list stuff was literally read like a laundry list. Trans, Voting, etc. Just a sentence or two and on to the next one. As for the meaty issues like meat, he said what he thought the issue was and what would remedy it. I disagree with him. But he covered it to the extent possible in that forum
Ok, fair enough, I did not see the whole thing so I am just going off of commentary after the fact on that. I guess whatever he proposed wasn't enough for people?
 
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Yes. I actually meant to include kudos for not pandering to the MSNBC crowd with trumptrumptrump. I can't do better than a B though, due to the domestic blow byes.
I agree with a B overall.

The text of the speech was good enough for the times. He certainly wouldn't be doing himself any favors announcing some ambitious agenda given the current state of international affairs and the whipping Ds are likely facing in the Fall.

The delivery sucked because he's just not a good public speaker. It's interesting to watch these speeches from a performance standpoint. George W. Bush could really read a speech even if he couldn't speak super well extemporaneously. Obama could really read a speech too. Trump had troubles but would lean into them like it's what he meant to say (like if the line was "our efforts will double," it might come out as "our efforts are durable...and double"). Biden loses a word & just bumbles around with it (I really would like to know what was supposed to be on the other side of "no longer known as the rust belt" line, because I'm certain it wasn't what we ended up hearing).
 
All of that was based on government responses to COVID though. Some of which are proving out to have been gross overreactions that carries on for far longer than they needed to for political reasons. In fact, COVID is basically "over" now because it started polling poorly for the President. The governments of the world do not get the blame for COVID but they do own the response (except China...I am not 100% sold on the Outside Shooter theory thread from yesterday, consider that best case for China and they still obfuscated which caused this to go on longer than needed).

I did not catch much of the speech except for the end. I will be honest, I can't stand listening to Biden speak. The past 2 Presidents have been "read it later" kind of guys. However, a few points, from the things I have read, the policy positions are talking points that are nice in theory in some cases (in other cases completely what I am against) but the SOTU has been a fantasy wish list for my entire adult life. Talk of funding the police, "oh GOP leaning people should like that..." Why? Because after your friends broke the toy you are suggesting we use glue to fix it? The rest of the wish list will need to make it through Congress and his own party is fractured on the bigger issues, particularly in the Senate.

Personally, I think the SOTU has become a waste of time for a long time. I wish they would go back to just submitting something to Congress in writing...but gotta get that TV time I guess.


I didn't watch it either. Haven't watched one in years, other than snippets.
 
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The laundry list stuff was literally read like a laundry list. Trans, Voting, etc. Just a sentence or two and on to the next one. As for the meaty issues like meat, he said what he thought the issue was and what would remedy it. I disagree with him. But he covered it to the extent possible in that forum
A year ago we were all in on bringing pharmaceutical manufacturing back. All I heard about bringing back manufacturing back was that chip plant that we will subsidize. Any thing about drug manufacturing?
 
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But so many offices (lobbies) and individual offices leave tv news on all day as opposed to games/shows. CNN. Fox News. This constant messaging has to have an impact on us
Chyrons are the new headlines. And now that talking points aren't actually just people talking. They are cues for all the social media heads to get out there and push push push.

There used to be two kinds of people, those that would read the headline only and those that would read the article. More and more are moving to the first and cable news/social media are driving it.
 
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Now see that's interesting. As I've related before, maybe the far left wingnuts aren't actually the far left and account for more of the party than we give credit. If you were a moderate Dem I don't know how you don't give a very positive rating to the speech. I mean the guy isn't going to lay out step by step his plan to remedy all our ills. It's a pep rally with a theme
My guess is that you are a very rare cookie. I bet he got low marks from even moderate republicans, simply because of how partisan we've become.
 
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Was that what it was? Would a "Republicans suck" have been deleted? I think it would have been. The problem is that there are partisans who don't care to take the time to write a coherent post. Your post here is an example of posts that should be encouraged, if I agree or disagree is irrelevant. A well written post I disagree with is better than a post that I might agree with that boils down to "we rock, you suck". Those are the posts we need to figure out how to lessen.
Kudos for the funding Police comments, although I would have added comments about putting police in a position to succeed by utilizing mental health pros on certain categories of runs and not putting beat cops in situations, they are not skilled to manage. etc you get the idea.
I think this is a good idea.
It's fascinating to me because I was tangentially part of the actual "defund the police" discussions being had with the City of Los Angeles and the LAPD and my business partner was deeply involved in them and that's exactly the kind of idea being discussed. Because of the poor branding, it didn't get publicized this way but a large part of it was to pivot the police away from the militarization against the community and towards positive engagement (which is on its own merits a controversial subject that requires thoughtful discussion.)
 
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That's of course inflationary pressure.... but nowhere near the scale of causing global inflation. If it was just US phenomenon, it would be a reasonable argument. But we know it's rampant across the world... including Europe who had been fighting deflationary battles for a decade up until 2 years ago.

Every inflationary pressure globally is a supply problem. Pick whatever industry you would like.... production went into the toilet during covid, demand never really dropped.

I still expect inflation to start easing by summer. If it's running 7% come August, then we've got bigger issues.
Do you think other countries weren't injecting an insane amount of money into their economies?

I haven't even talked about the rise in energy prices, which, of course, is driven by the disastrous decision to stop energy leases, and stop the pipeline, and, generally, talk down conventional energy sources.
 
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I think a lot of companies use inflation as an excuse to raise their prices when their costs really haven't gone up. In other words, jump on the bandwagon of raising their prices since everyone else is doing it. If you notice grocery prices you'll see that they have gone up on a lot of things a lot more than inflation. I've noticed 3 or 4 things that my wife buys consistently and Kroger has raised their prices on those items a LOT more than Walmart or Meijer has.
They don't all buy their products from the same place.....
 
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It's fascinating to me because I was tangentially part of the actual "defund the police" discussions being had with the City of Los Angeles and the LAPD and my business partner was deeply involved in them and that's exactly the kind of idea being discussed. Because of the poor branding, it didn't get publicized this way but a large part of it was to pivot the police away from the militarization against the community and towards positive engagement (which is on its own merits a controversial subject that requires thoughtful discussion.)

You have it, branding sucked. It is a serious idea that needs to be discussed. We ask police to be too much, lifting some of that load from them would be good.
 
I think Van Jones’ commentary is useless. He doesn’t even pretend that he’s not a partisan hack. And, even then he usually says nothing of substance. So yes, you are spot on.
I literally thought he was going to burst into tears of happiness.
 
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It's fascinating to me because I was tangentially part of the actual "defund the police" discussions being had with the City of Los Angeles and the LAPD and my business partner was deeply involved in them and that's exactly the kind of idea being discussed. Because of the poor branding, it didn't get publicized this way but a large part of it was to pivot the police away from the militarization against the community and towards positive engagement (which is on its own merits a controversial subject that requires thoughtful discussion.)
You can thank AOC and her Squid for this.
 
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Fair. I would add that I liked the get the masks off of kids in school, and no mention of Jan 6. Not a single word about Jan 6, Trump, the end of democracy blah blah blah that infatuate people on here but normal Americans don't care about anymore. While perhaps short on answers he pivoted from the Squad on many issues and touched on the issues that actually concern most Americans. I'd give him a B+
Of course, not a single word about the debacle in Afghanistan and 13 needless US military deaths, either.

But he did blame Beau's cancer on burn pits - in Kosovo. Joe never misses a chances to get pity points for his own personal tragedies, that may nor not be portrayed accurately (Beau's cancer, circumstances around his wife's death, Hunter....., etc.).

But good old Uncle Joe. He made it through a speech without a major ****-up. I guess that's a major accomplishment.
 
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You have it, branding sucked. It is a serious idea that needs to be discussed. We ask police to be too much, lifting some of that load from them would be good.
"Defund the police" slogan doesn't exactly help.

I don't think anyone I know is against better screening of police candidates, better training, psychological therapy for police, moving of social problem to social scientists (and I used that with my tongue firmly in my cheeck), etc.

But the vitriol and hate directed at ALL police in 2020 - all in the name of getting Trump out of office - poisoned the well and has made the public leery of any talk of reforming police departments.
 
Of course, not a single word about the debacle in Afghanistan and 13 needless US military deaths, either.

But he did blame Beau's cancer on burn pits - in Kosovo. Joe never misses a chances to get pity points for his own personal tragedies, that may nor not be portrayed accurately (Beau's cancer, circumstances around his wife's death, Hunter....., etc.).

But good old Uncle Joe. He made it through a speech without a major ****-up. I guess that's a major accomplishment.

A D student who came up with a B-/C+ report.
 
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It's fascinating to me because I was tangentially part of the actual "defund the police" discussions being had with the City of Los Angeles and the LAPD and my business partner was deeply involved in them and that's exactly the kind of idea being discussed. Because of the poor branding, it didn't get publicized this way but a large part of it was to pivot the police away from the militarization against the community and towards positive engagement (which is on its own merits a controversial subject that requires thoughtful discussion.)
All the fund the police stuff from federal officials is just a way to advocate for more federal funding with federal standards, control, and strings.

At the his level, Biden needs to be a strong advocate for support and respect for police. When we hear about funding we also hear about training, militarization, pivots, etc. Police have gone through a decade of significant official criticism and disrespect. That has a huge negative impact on morale, recruiting, and public perception. It makes the job infinitely more dangerous. A remedy for that damage will take a long time but we must start. Funding seems to have become a political talking point during rising violent crime rates. Funding is not the largest part of the problem. Lack of respect and community support is a bigger problem.
 
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All the fund the police stuff from federal officials is just a way to advocate for more federal funding with federal standards, control, and strings.

At the his level, Biden needs to be a strong advocate for support and respect for police. When we hear about funding we also hear about training, militarization, pivots, etc. Police have gone through a decade of significant official criticism and disrespect. That has a huge negative impact on morale, recruiting, and public perception. It makes the job infinitely more dangerous. A remedy for that damage will take a long time but we must start. Funding seems to have become a political talking point during rising violent crime rates. Funding is not the largest part of the problem. Lack of respect and community support is a bigger problem.
Absolutely. It wasn't solely a "branding" issue re Defund; it was an all out attack on cops. That cops are bad to put it plainly. The number of cops that quit or retired during this period is staggering.
 
I didn't watch it either. Haven't watched one in years, other than snippets.
The only reason I saw any was that it happened to be ending right after the movie I was streaming finished.

My wife went to bed early last night with a headache, Biden was on most of the channels, and I chose to watch an animated comic book movie. That is about where the SOTU rates for me.
 
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The only reason I saw any was that it happened to be ending right after the movie I was streaming finished.

My wife went to bed early last night with a headache, Biden was on most of the channels, and I chose to watch an animated comic book movie. That is about where the SOTU rates for me.


I was watching O$U and Purdue lose. Much more satisfying.
 
The Purdue/Wisconsin game was a tough one. Don't like Purdue but I really dislike this year's version of Wisconsin. It was one of those, "Can't they both lose?" type of games.

I saw it as more of a glass half full situation.... at least one would lose.

O$U losing at home to lowly Nebraska was much better
 
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It's fascinating to me because I was tangentially part of the actual "defund the police" discussions being had with the City of Los Angeles and the LAPD and my business partner was deeply involved in them and that's exactly the kind of idea being discussed. Because of the poor branding, it didn't get publicized this way but a large part of it was to pivot the police away from the militarization against the community and towards positive engagement (which is on its own merits a controversial subject that requires thoughtful discussion.)
Worst. Branding. Ever.

True story: When I worked in Indianapolis misdemeanor courts we would be flooded of cases of the White Castle by Methodist Hospital where homeless guys would be loitering and bothering customers, then some poor cop would come in for a 10-sack and all of a sudden the manager would tell him the homeless guys were trespassed and they'd end up going to jail. When trial time would come, I don't think I ever saw a White Castle witness coming in to testify about the trespassing. Basically, cops were being used as private security/crowd control. I never knew a cop who didn't resent this. Same thing with dealing with people with obvious mental health issues on the streets. That's not what the police are for.

I'll never understand for the life of me that this wasn't branded as "support the police," i.e., hiring social workers, drug counselors, or whatever else, to provide support for the police so they can do police work and not the other million things they're tasked with doing. But here we are.
 
The Purdue/Wisconsin game was a tough one. Don't like Purdue but I really dislike this year's version of Wisconsin. It was one of those, "Can't they both lose?" type of games.
2 banked-in shots to win the game..... damn, you have to call that fate.

Now I know how other teams felt about IU back in the day. We used to win big games we had no business winning. We won with teamwork and discipline and role-players. That's exactly how Wisconsin wins.

Johnny Davis is the most valuable Big Ten player I've seen in 20 years. Ivey is actually pretty close. Both Wisconsin and Purdue would be mediocre without them.

And there's no way I'd hope for Purdue even tying for a Big Ten title.
 
Worst. Branding. Ever.

True story: When I worked in Indianapolis misdemeanor courts we would be flooded of cases of the White Castle by Methodist Hospital where homeless guys would be loitering and bothering customers, then some poor cop would come in for a 10-sack and all of a sudden the manager would tell him the homeless guys were trespassed and they'd end up going to jail. When trial time would come, I don't think I ever saw a White Castle witness coming in to testify about the trespassing. Basically, cops were being used as private security/crowd control. I never knew a cop who didn't resent this. Same thing with dealing with people with obvious mental health issues on the streets. That's not what the police are for.

I'll never understand for the life of me that this wasn't branded as "support the police," i.e., hiring social workers, drug counselors, or whatever else, to provide support for the police so they can do police work and not the other million things they're tasked with doing. But here we are.
In the negotiations I watched, it came down to the same simple pragmatic detail most things come down to...money. People who manage budget don't like to have their budget "reallocated" and politicians are reticent to further substantially increase the budget of law enforcement organizations that have already seen steady substantial increases over the last several decades. That leaves it challenging to find a way to accomplish the things that it seems many are in favor of.
 
In the negotiations I watched, it came down to the same simple pragmatic detail most things come down to...money. People who manage budget don't like to have their budget "reallocated" and politicians are reticent to further substantially increase the budget of law enforcement organizations that have already seen steady substantial increases over the last several decades. That leaves it challenging to find a way to accomplish the things that it seems many are in favor of.
And that's partly the issue with shitty cops. Money. You want better cops, cops that match Fed cop qualifications, you need bigger budgets. If you have 800,000 cops - many of whom were hired by fulfilling a GED and age requirement - you have to expect issues
 
So, let me start off this morning with a eulogy for Morrison. We did not always agree, but seemed like a decent enough fellow.

I hear that after the 150th shot, he was basically feeling nothing. God speed my good man.
I didn’t have a single shot because a shot was taken away every time Biden said “folks.”. I think I’m still in the red.😂
 
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And that's partly the issue with shitty cops. Money. You want better cops, cops that match Fed cop qualifications, you need bigger budgets. If you have 800,000 cops - many of whom were hired by fulfilling a GED and age requirement - you have to expect issues
Yup. Good people cost.
 
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And that's partly the issue with shitty cops. Money. You want better cops, cops that match Fed cop qualifications, you need bigger budgets. If you have 800,000 cops - many of whom were hired by fulfilling a GED and age requirement - you have to expect issues
My dad's line was; "The first requirement to be cop (small local town) is to drop out of high school."

I knew some of cops, he wasn't far off.
 
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