And how on Earth does a large Dept of Ed help? That’s what we were here discussing before people started lobbing platitudes all over the place and stating falsities like “more money is better for school results.”
Sec of Education - Holy Moly
- Thread starter IUclover
- Start date
Nothing. That’s the crutch mentality and sort of inferred/implicated in the economics discussion crazed and brad are having
A. I didn't put words in your mouth. That's why I typed (Not BWB). Slow down and read.
B. Your second paragraph is so full of shit, You have no idea what I've experienced in the real world. The only response to that take is Fvck right off...and I don't think you've ever seen me type that very often. I have enough experience in the last 35-40 years, as does my wife, to speak intelligently to the topic.
Fine for A. That’s not how I read it. Read it from another perspective and you’d read it how I did.
For B I’m talking ex-US. US squalor is not comparable to what I’ve seen around the world. You’ve not seen kids living amongst open sewers and with shit floating down the streets and still going to school every morning. I respect your experience but US kids are spoiled comparatively.
Okay...well...fvck you for bringing in the rest of the world, then.
Believe me, US kids are spoiled only in comparison. Their lives are still a shit sandwich through no fault of their own. And many are so resilient, it would break your heart. As my wife says, the biggest hurdle new teachers have to overcome is that the ones who are the hardest to love are the ones who need it the most. (Sorry if that was a sappy platitude).
Sometimes platitudes are reality - but in getting back to what we were discussing….Okay...well...fvck you for bringing in the rest of the world, then.
Believe me, US kids are spoiled only in comparison. Their lives are still a shit sandwich through no fault of their own. And many are so resilient, it would break your heart. As my wife says, the biggest hurdle new teachers have to overcome is that the ones who are the hardest to love are the ones who need it the most. (Sorry if that was a sappy platitude).
I agree there are kids that are lost as innocent victims - but that has nothing to do with a) us being a representative republic, b) an impotent Dept of Ed, c) systemic racism or d) whatever other bogeyman people who refuse to take accountability adopt.
It has everything to do with cultural rot and lack of parental accountability. Lack of accountability driven by selfish people, by fatalism being shoved down throats by DEI/Woke grifters, and by politicians that are worthless.
An aside: It even further pisses me off that my kids have straight A’s, are student athletes, are model citizens and will only have a 5% chance to get into the school they want to attend. If you can convince me a Dept of Education can solve that - then I’m actively listening.
PS - I didn't mean all US kids...I meant to say inner city kids living in poverty. Sorry about that.Okay...well...fvck you for bringing in the rest of the world, then.
Believe me, US kids are spoiled only in comparison. Their lives are still a shit sandwich through no fault of their own. And many are so resilient, it would break your heart. As my wife says, the biggest hurdle new teachers have to overcome is that the ones who are the hardest to love are the ones who need it the most. (Sorry if that was a sappy platitude).
IU has a 77% accept rate. They'll get in.
Try me bitch. Party starts on the drive down and ends six years later with that hot degree
Not paying out of state for IU unless they promise me Kelley. Meaning my kid(s) promise they’ll pursue Kelley.IU has a 77% accept rate. They'll get in.
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Step your game up.
50K plus a year.
TBD. But “good” schools have a 10% acceptance rate. Great schools have sub 5%.
Check on that. As a veteran your kids may qualify for in state tuition. Mine did (but didn’t want to go to IU, unfortunately), but that could be because I’m a retired veteran.
It’s higher. I got in.IU has a 77% accept rate. They'll get in.
'Constitutional Republic.'
Most failing K-12 schools (government)have a high percentage of no father in the home. The offspring become wards of the state. As the state corrupts, so do their wards.
In-State Tuition Rates for Certain Veterans, Military Members, and GI Bill Recipients
Establishes provisions for remission of the nonresident portion of credit-hour fees for full-time military personnel and spouses stationed in Indiana.
Education Benefits
Learn about the benefits and resources that CVMS can provide.
Thanks. I checked those after Aloha mentioned it. I don’t see any of those bullets applying to me.In-State Tuition Rates for Certain Veterans, Military Members, and GI Bill Recipients
Establishes provisions for remission of the nonresident portion of credit-hour fees for full-time military personnel and spouses stationed in Indiana.policies.iu.edu
Education Benefits
Learn about the benefits and resources that CVMS can provide.
I know some state schools do have it for all vets. Have a friend from IU whose kid is at Mizzou who I think got this there.
Then how do you know they only have a 5% chance of getting into the school that they want to attend? There are around 10 universities in the country with an acceptance rate that low.
Sure, there are many schools that are extremely competitive, but I think you are being a little harsh with your good and great grades. Michigan is a fantastic school with a rabid alumni network and has an 18% acceptance rate. Cal is a great school with a 12% acceptance rate. Florida is a very good school with a 23% acceptance rate. And those are just some of the very good publics.
The difficult reality is that the attributes you identify in your kids aren't all that uncommon in today's college applicants. According to some studies, nearly 50% of them graduate high school with all A's. I do alumni interviews for admissions from a school with a low acceptance rate (that I would have no chance of getting into now) and every kid I meet is an A student with tons of extracurriculars, fantastic volunteer work, and a terrific demeanor. Most don't get accepted. That's not a problem with the system. That's a result of us as a society producing a generation of high achieving kids who we (as a society) sell the idea that they have to attend one of those sub 5% schools to have a great life.
There are TONS of great options for kids after high school that fit their interests and ambitions. I wouldn't sweat what college they are going to end up at too much. I'd spend more time helping them find their interests and ambitions. If they have those, they can build a fantastic life with their college choice being a small part of that. If they don't have those, no college choice is going to magically help them find those.
Sorry for the wild detour, but this is a topic I'm passionate about so I hope you'll forgive my rant.
Hard to tell in all cases, but for example Michigan's in-state acceptance rate is closer to 40% while out-of-state ranges from 15-20% depending on the year. Florida is closer to 19% for out-of-state, but the point remains.
2022 and 2023 are skewed towards lower acceptance rates because of more applications from kids taking gap years due to covid, but they are in the ballpark overall.
I agree that part of the problem is perception, but that's not going to change.
The other problem is nationwide grade inflation. As the article you linked states, while the % of kids getting all A's increases, the standardized test scores have dropped.
A few radical propositions for discussion (that I'm not even sure I favor):
(1) institute a nationwide grading curve for high school. In every class, only the top 20% can get an A, the next 20% a B.
(2) to stop advancing students at the bottom just to do so, set up a nationwide basic literacy and math skills test. Any high school that advances a kid to 12th grade who cannot pass said test at some basic, minimal threshold and who has given this kid As and Bs, gets fined or punished somehow.
I've noticed this with my kids for years, by the way. I have no real feedback on their strengths and weaknesses from teachers, just "oh he/she is getting an A. Not much to talk about." But, of course, I have no understanding of what that A means, and it clearly doesn't mean much if half the class is getting one.
What is out of state acceptance rate to UNC. What is it to UMichigan, etc.
The out of state rates are what matters. My state SUCKS for in state public school options. Pitt isn’t good. It’s not bad but isn’t good. Temple is in one of the most violent neighborhoods in the country. That leaves Penn State. Blah.
Yes they’d need to use my GI Bill but I’ve already used it on grad school for myself.
Chapel Hill was my top choice. The allotment for in state by law is crazy. I bet out of state acceptance is less than 10 percent. For a public. So many great schools in nc
Some info on this (I, too, am interested/invested in this stuff with a Jr. and a Fr. in high school):
Many Ivy League colleges have acceptance rates of less than 10%. Keep in mind that these schools also typically welcome a large number of applications each year, which affects this rate.
The California Institute of Technology and Harvard University lead for the most selective universities at a miniscule 3% acceptance rate.
40 Colleges With the Lowest Acceptance Rates
Most of the schools on the list for lowest acceptance rates will come as no surprise.Many Ivy League colleges have acceptance rates of less than 10%. Keep in mind that these schools also typically welcome a large number of applications each year, which affects this rate.
The California Institute of Technology and Harvard University lead for the most selective universities at a miniscule 3% acceptance rate.
- California Institute of Technology: 3%
- Harvard University: 3%
- Princeton University: 4%
- Stanford: 4%
- Brown University: 5%
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology: 5%
- University of Chicago: 5%
- Yale University: 5%
- Dartmouth College: 6%
- Northeastern University: 6%
| University of Pennsylvania | 6% |
| Vanderbilt University | 6% |
| Duke University | 7% |
| Northwestern University | 7% |
| Cornell University | 8% |
| Johns Hopkins University | 8% |
| Rice University | 8% |
| New York University | 9% |
| University of California, Los Angeles | 9% |
| Tufts University | 10% |
| University of Southern California | 10% |
| Boston University | 11% |
| Carnegie Mellon University | 11% |
| Emory University | 11% |
| University of California, Berkeley | 12% |
| University of Notre Dame | 12% |
| Washington University in St. Louis | 12% |
| Georgetown University | 13% |
| Davidson College | 14% |
| Tulane University | 15% |
| Boston College | 16% |
| Georgia Institute of Technology | 16% |
| University of Virginia | 17% |
| Washington and Lee University | 17% |
| University of Michigan | 18% |
| University of Miami | 19% |
| University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill | 19% |
| Florida A&M University | 21% |
| Wake Forest University | 22% |
| University of Florida | 24% |
College Acceptance Rates for 150 Popular Schools | BestColleges
Some of the highest acceptance rates near 100%, while the lowest dip to 3%. Check which schools you have the best chance of getting into.
www.bestcolleges.com
UNC is low because the state limits the student body to 18% out of state, which most schools don't do. It typically floats between 8 and 10%. Michigan is around 18% out-of-state, but it again fluctuates year to year.
So much depends on where your kids think they are going to want to live after college, too. The Virginia alumni network is a big asset in the southeast, but less so in California or the northwest. UCSD is a really great school, but I don't know that it would help your kids much if they want to live in PA.
More:Some info on this (I, too, am interested/invested in this stuff with a Jr. and a Fr. in high school):
40 Colleges With the Lowest Acceptance Rates
Most of the schools on the list for lowest acceptance rates will come as no surprise.
Many Ivy League colleges have acceptance rates of less than 10%. Keep in mind that these schools also typically welcome a large number of applications each year, which affects this rate.
The California Institute of Technology and Harvard University lead for the most selective universities at a miniscule 3% acceptance rate.
- California Institute of Technology: 3%
- Harvard University: 3%
- Princeton University: 4%
- Stanford: 4%
- Brown University: 5%
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology: 5%
- University of Chicago: 5%
- Yale University: 5%
- Dartmouth College: 6%
- Northeastern University: 6%
University of Pennsylvania 6% Vanderbilt University 6% Duke University 7% Northwestern University 7% Cornell University 8% Johns Hopkins University 8% Rice University 8% New York University 9% University of California, Los Angeles 9% Tufts University 10%
University of Southern California 10% Boston University 11% Carnegie Mellon University 11% Emory University 11% University of California, Berkeley 12% University of Notre Dame 12% Washington University in St. Louis 12% Georgetown University 13% Davidson College 14% Tulane University 15%
Boston College 16% Georgia Institute of Technology 16% University of Virginia 17% Washington and Lee University 17% University of Michigan 18% University of Miami 19% University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 19% Florida A&M University 21% Wake Forest University 22% University of Florida 24%
College Acceptance Rates for 150 Popular Schools | BestColleges
Some of the highest acceptance rates near 100%, while the lowest dip to 3%. Check which schools you have the best chance of getting into.www.bestcolleges.com
SAT Scores and Acceptance Rates at Selected Colleges
To find a college, in Windows click Control + f, on a Mac click Command + f, andthen type the college's name in the search box.
| College | SAT 25-75th Percentile | % of Applicants Accepted | ||
| Cal Tech | 1530 - 1580 | 7 | ||
| Harvard | 1460 - 1580 | 5 | ||
| MIT | 1510 - 1580 | 7 | ||
| Yale | 1460 - 1580 | 5 | ||
| Brown | 1440 - 1570 | 8 | ||
| Columbia | 1470 - 1570 | 6 | ||
| Harvey Mudd | 1490 - 1570 | 18 | ||
| Johns Hopkins | 1480 - 1570 | 9 | ||
| Princeton | 1450 - 1570 | 6 | ||
| Rice | 1460 - 1570 | 11 | ||
| Stanford | 1420 - 1570 | 5 | ||
| Univ. of Chicago | 1500 - 1570 | 7 | ||
| Univ. of Penn | 1450 - 1570 | 9 | ||
| Carnegie Mellon | 1460 - 1560 | 17 | ||
| Dartmouth | 1440 - 1560 | 9 | ||
| Duke | 1510 - 1560 | 8 | ||
| Notre Dame | 1420 - 1560 | 19 | ||
| Univ. of Michigan | 1340 - 1560 | 17 | ||
| Vanderbilt | 1460 - 1560 | 12 | ||
| Washington U. in St. L | 1460 - 1560 | 8 | ||
| Williams | 1410 - 1560 | 15 | ||
| Amherst | 1410 - 1550 | 12 | ||
| Georgetown | 1380 - 1550 | 17 | ||
| Northwestern | 1430 - 1550 | 9 | ||
| Cornell | 1400 - 1540 | 11 | ||
| Northeastern | 1410 - 1540 | 20 | ||
| NYU | 1370 - 1540 | 21 | ||
| Pomona | 1390 - 1540 | 9 | ||
| Swarthmore | 1395 - 1540 | 9 | ||
| Tufts | 1380 - 1530 | 16 | ||
| Emory | 1380 - 1530 | 19 | ||
| Georgia Tech | 1370 - 1530 | 21 | ||
| Univ. of Cal. Berkeley | 1290 - 1530 | 18 | ||
| Univ. of Southern Cal. | 1340 - 1530 | 16 | ||
| Case Western Reserve | 1340 - 1520 | 30 | ||
| Colby | 1380 - 1520 | 10 | ||
| Haverford | 1360 - 1520 | 24 | ||
| Middlebury | 1340 - 1520 | 22 | ||
| Reed | 1325 - 1520 | 39 | ||
| UCLA | 1290 - 1520 | 14 | ||
| Vassar | 1360 - 1520 | 25 | ||
| Wellesley | 1350 - 1520 | 20 | ||
| Wesleyan | 1340 - 1520 | 21 | ||
| Barnard | 1350 - 1518 | 14 | ||
| Bowdoin | 1330 - 1510 | 9 | ||
| Brandeis | 1320 - 1510 | 34 | ||
| Carleton | 1340 - 1510 | 21 | ||
| Grinnell | 1340 - 1510 | 18 | ||
| Hamilton | 1380 - 1510 | 18 | ||
| Pitzer | 1325 - 1510 | 17 | ||
| Smith | 1325 - 1510 | 37 | ||
| Univ. of Virginia | 1320 - 1510 | 23 | ||
| Boston College | 1330 - 1500 | 26 | ||
| Boston University | 1310 - 1500 | 20 | ||
| Bryn Mawr | 1240 - 1500 | 38 | ||
| Claremont McKenna | 1330 - 1500 | 13 | ||
| Mount Holyoke | 1270 - 1500 | 52 | ||
| Rensselaer Poly | 1300 - 1500 | 57 | ||
| Univ. of Rochester | 1310 - 1500 | 35 | ||
| Washington & Lee | 1350 - 1500 | 24 | ||
| William & Mary | 1300 - 1490 | 42 | ||
| Scripps | 1320 - 1480 | 35 | ||
| Colgate | 1300 - 1470 | 32 | ||
| Wake Forest | 1290 - 1470 | 32 | ||
| Worcester Poly | 1310 - 1470 | 59 | ||
| Colorado College | 1240 - 1460 | 14 | ||
| Davidson | 1300 - 1460 | 20 | ||
| Occidental | 1270 - 1460 | 41 | ||
| Kenyon | 1280 - 1460 | 37 | ||
| Tulane | 1340 - 1460 | 11 | ||
| Univ. of Richmond | 1280 - 1460 | 31 | ||
| Univ. of Florida | 1290 - 1460 | 31 | ||
| Univ. of North Carolina | 1220 - 1460 | 24 | ||
| U.S. Air Force Academy | 1300 - 1460 | 13 | ||
| Villanova | 1320 - 1460 | 31 | ||
| Connecticut College | 1310 - 1450 | 38 | ||
| George Washington Univ. | 1270 - 1450 | 43 | ||
| Macalaster | 1280 - 1450 | 39 | ||
| Oberlin | 1270 - 1450 | 35 | ||
| Trinity | 1290 - 1450 | 36 | ||
| U.S. Naval Academy | 1230 - 1450 | 9 | ||
| Franklin & Marshall | 1210 - 1440 | 37 | ||
| Lafayette | 1250 - 1440 | 36 | ||
| U.S. Military Academy | 1210 - 1440 | 9 | ||
| Lehigh | 1260 - 1433 | 50 | ||
| Denison | 1220 - 1430 | 28 | ||
| Holy Cross | 1290 - 1430 | 38 | ||
| Purdue | 1190 - 1430 | 67 | ||
| Whitman | 1230 - 1430 | 54 | ||
| Bates | 1210 - 1420 | 14 | ||
| Lawrence | 1190 - 1420 | 69 | ||
| Rhodes | 1220 - 1420 | 51 | ||
| St. Olaf | 1150 - 1420 | 51 | ||
| Univ. of Miami | 1250 - 1420 | 33 | ||
| Univ. of Pittsburgh | 1243 - 1420 | 64 | ||
| Univ. of Wisconsin | 1220 - 1420 | 57 | ||
| Bard | 1220 - 1418 | 59 | ||
| Fordham | 1230 - 1410 | 53 | ||
| Gettysburg | 1270 - 1410 | 48 | ||
| Pepperdine | 1200 - 1410 | 42 | ||
| Sarah Lawrence | 1220 - 1410 | 55 | ||
| Skidmore | 1220 - 1403 | 32 | ||
| Bennington | 1200 - 1400 | 60 | ||
| Bucknell | 1220 - 1400 | 38 | ||
| Union | 1210 - 1400 | 41 | ||
| American | 1220 - 1390 | 39 | ||
| Univ. of Connecticut | 1170 - 1390 | 599 | ||
| UMass Amherst | 1200 - 1390 | 65 | ||
| Dickinson | 1220 - 1380 | 52 | ||
| Lewis & Clark | 1198 - 1380 | 81 | ||
| Syracuse | 1160 - 1370 | 69 | ||
| Virginia Tech | 1170 - 1370 | 67 | ||
| DePauw | 1110 - 1360 | 68 | ||
| Hobart & Wm. Smith | 1180 - 1360 | 62 | ||
| St. Lawrence | 1180 - 1360 | 47 | ||
| Allegheny | 1140 - 1350 | 73 | ||
| Clark | 1150 - 1350 | 47 | ||
| Muhlenberg | 1170 - 1350 | 71 | ||
| Univ. of Vermont | 1160 - 1350 | 62 | ||
| Wheaton | 1160 - 1350 | 77 | ||
| Penn State U.-Univ. Park | 1150 - 1340 | 54 | ||
| Sewanee | 1150 - 1340 | 56 | ||
| Knox | 1080 - 1320 | 71 | ||
| St. Anselm | 1140 - 1300 | 75 | ||
| Stonehill | 1120 - 1290 | 69 | ||
| St. Michael's | 1130 - 1280 | 88 | ||
| UNH | 1090 - 1280 | 85 |
Some of those SATs seem to skew low (and the acceptance rates skew high) but it's so hard to tell with the deemphasizing and then reemphasizing of SAT/ACT scores.
The horror stories I’m hearing from colleagues at work have me terrified. My boss is even pulling his kids out of public school to put them in private since the counselors and systems there have much better connections with the good schools. Granted he’s looking at mostly private universities, which I don’t want to rule out, but I’m also a product of a pretty good state school so I won’t rule those out either. My savings plan for my kids has been to be able to flat out pay off state schools, and if they end up going somewhere more expensive then just figuring out as we go.
These things like Early Decision and these other arbitrary things that didn’t exist when I went through are making it seem like it’s all a lottery and I find that to be completely unacceptable. It doesn’t feel like a meritocracy anymore, it feels like an opaque black box that affects the trajectory of someone’s life.
If you're a 5 star student (to make a sports analogy), you'll be fine I think. If you're a 3 star, I think it very much is an opaque black box.
Again, the problem is, our school systems are making what star our kids are opaque. You don't find out until they take the SAT/ACT, basically.
I got accepted to law school at Cornell, notre dame, and Wash u. Rejected at Unc and UF. I went public. Still went to the firm I wanted in fla. Targeted partners not hr. Explain to me why Davidson is worth it. Vandy. Emory. Over iu or some other public. Unless they are brain surgeons or top engineers at Tesla or Wharton hedge fund types most people will do the same shit. Oracle. Grant Thornton. Sell med equipment for Stryker.
Hey joe I like these two a lot. Sarah with a 3.8 at mizzou and Sara with a 3.6 at Davidson. Well Mike Sarah with an H probably overcame anxiety, sexual assault, alcoholism, $2 white claw nights, and Fomo with all the shit she was invited to while getting her degree while Sara sat in the Davidson library and scored marginally better. Unfortunately Sara probably isn’t as well equipped to deal with handsy doctors, being passed over for promotion, and screamed at.
I will add my buddy’s daughter went to Davidson. Was no fun. Stressed out. Transferred and was way happier. After that first door, job, I don’t think people care that much. Hell who even knows what these kids will do. Start their own businesses
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It’s just in that next level of good schools. Step down. But markedly ahead of Indiana mizzou types. My buddy’s kid went to John Burroughs high school. Expensive rich kid private school. Perfect type for Davidson. I don’t know. I just think if you’re not on a certain path or have a calling, young Sheldon, the expensive elite schools may not be worth it. Or create the best memories and experiences. Shit I went to law school with a bunch of these types. From Ivy League undergrads. Also Vandy. Emory. Wash u. Davidson. On and on. And sure you can sort of tell. Cortez’s haircut for instance, but ultimately what was the point
I totally get the terror and it's a product of you really wanting the best for your kids, but try not to let other people drive your approach to your kids if you can. Their situation and what they value may be totally different. It sounds like you have great kids who care about the right things and have great futures ahead of them.
You've got a good plan. Share information with your kids. Include the amazing opportunities and the daunting responsibilities. Put them in the position to drive a lot of the decision-making (within the boundaries of what you are willing to pay for) because ultimately it is their future and kids treat things that they are invested in better than things that are foisted on them.
High achieving kids have TONS of pressure on them to have their whole life figured out by the time they are seniors in high school. IMHO, it's way too much. I'd advocate for the approach that what you do in high school doesn't decide your destination as much as it keeps paths open to you.
I mean think of this shit. John Burroughs high school here is $40k a year. Davidson college $65k. 8 years of grade school $20k a year.
That’s $580k in tuition. To compete for a job in Atlanta against a kid from boca who spent 12 years in public then went to UF and got a degree for $50k. I do not believe there will be any difference between these two kids other than a half mil plus in tuition
It seems like one of those schools that has more regional influence than national to me. Davidson means something significant in the Carolinas, but doesn't mean much of anything in Texas or Colorado or Missouri. Kind of like a DePauw on steroids. It's a nice school if you go work in Indianapolis, but everyone more than 200 miles away thinks you went to school in Chicago. 🤣
