i don't disagree but i'm not sure you can remove the innate likability of the two guys (of course, minus the cheating lol) from their overall perceptions or the way that last sampson season was viewed. sampson's teams played a style IU fan could more easily get behind and he talked in a way IU fan could relate to (we don't make excuses-type thing). crean's naked ambition, excuses, high player turnover, and perceived lack of sincerity has done him know no favors with the mob. that said, i agree sampson's last team wasn't a world beater but the ups and downs of crean and his style have confused the memories of some.
Scruggs visiting Monday...
- Thread starter cheyennemtnman
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i don't disagree but i'm not sure you can remove the innate likability of the two guys (of course, minus the cheating lol) from their overall perceptions or the way that last sampson season was viewed. sampson's teams played a style IU fan could more easily get behind and he talked in a way IU fan could relate to (we don't make excuses-type thing). crean's naked ambition, excuses, high player turnover, and perceived lack of sincerity has done him know no favors with the mob. that said, i agree sampson's last team wasn't a world beater but the ups and downs of crean and his style have confused the memories of some.
Most are indeed not huge TC fans and many are top tier donors.
That said, virtually all give props for the focus on academics. Knight got generally high marks for that as well.
I get your point but ... that was also early in Sampson's time. Crean has been here longer and has more time to let cynicism set in. Plus, those first two season were building years. lol...
You hate his recruits more than his system and his actions. And, it's clouding your usually good reasoning. I despise him too, he's a stain that can't be removed.
He really didn't care about character. But, those team were piecemeal, he had better players coming and with probably better characters. The jucos weren't a type of player RMK would have even considered.
Sampson was a far better defensive coach. and not far behind Crean in offense. I'd argue that Crean's off. is skewed due to his def. philosophy..(I think you would agree?)
Sampson was the better coach and his scheduling wasn't great but it's not the level of bad of Crean's. Sampson never had a reputation for bad scheduling. Crean does.
Sorry for any mistakes, I did this quickly. NCSOS per Kenpom.
Sampson
08 IU 235 <edited.
07 IU 119
06 Ok 143
05 Ok 181
04 Ok 286
03 Ok 208
02 Ok 159
Not great. I'd call it weak...
Crean
16 IU 265 < embarrassment.
15 IU 332 <
14 IU 330 <
13 IU 335 <
12 IU 293 <
11 IU 273 <
10 ** lol ... these two years don't count. Ask anyone.
09 **
08 Marq 286 <
07 Marq 268 <
06 Marq 205
05 Marq 235
04 Marq 265 <
03 Marq 178
02 Marq 251 <
One year above 200. Most in the 250- and it seems he's scheduling even weaker since getting here. He's a serial under-scheduler. This year is no better.
It should rarely be below 80.
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I just wanted to add... God, why did Mr. Gordon have to hurt his hand that year at IU? Lol. Gordon getting hurt probably put as big of a damper on the season as the scandal.
I'm sure that my reasoning is clouded, but it's not the players as much as the system. No doubt I hated to watch that team, but I hated watching his Oklahoma teams too. I felt sure that IU would beat them in the Final 4 and was all set to bet 1k on the game, but I let my brother and cousin talk me down to a lousy 2 hundred because of Cov's ankle.
Anyway....
Here are a few NCAA Tournament tidbits regarding the two....Starting with my favorite Sampson stat.
1) Sampson has had 7 teams enter the NCAA Tourney as a #6 seed or better and every single one of them eventually lost as the favorite. Crean, in contrast, is more apt to be knocked out by a better team, as only only 2 of his 6 (#6 seed or better) teams were knocked out by underdogs.
2) If you go by expected wins according to seeding, Sampson should have won 16.61 NCAA Tournament games, but has only won 10 for a shortfall of nearly 40% in the win column. Crean, in contrast, should have won 12.34 and has won 11.
If you put a minimum of say 6-7 NCAA appearances, I would bet that Sampson is among the worst if not the worst all time by the above two stats.
3) Sampson has only reached three Sweet 16's in twelve tries, while Crean has reached four in nine tries.
4) Seven of Sampson's twelve losses have been to teams who were unranked in the final AP Poll, while only three of Crean's nine losses have been to unranked opponents.
5) Sampson has lost seven out of twelve times in the opening round, while Crean has lost four times out of nine in the opening round.
6) Sampson had a luckier journey to his only Final Four playing #12 seed Missouri in the Elite Eight, while Crean had to get past #1 seed Kentucky.
7) Crean was shellacked by Roy Williams in the Final Four, while Sampson was taken out by Mike Davis and Donald Perry.
8) Ten of Sampson's twelve losses have been to teams ranked outside the Final AP Top 15, while Crean has only been knocked out by such teams four times out of nine.
9) Sampson has won 45% of his NCAA Tournament games, while Crean has won 55%
10) Lastly, for those who might say that Sampson did it at a football school, from 1984-1994 Oklahoma ranked 6th in Total AP Poll Appearances with 150 (Indiana ranked 7th during that same period with 143). During the Sampson era (1995-2006) Oklahoma fell to 16th in Total AP Poll Appearances.
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How does anyone still support Tom Crean? It's classic group think (cult-like) mentality is the only reason I can think of. You can't rationalize it. The guy is indefensible if you use basic reasoning and logic.
Because he is the coach of IU and until he is not I will support him. As long as he does not cheat or do anything immoral then I will support him. That does not mean I will always agree with what he does but I will be behind him hoping he will turn it around. I have my problems with Crean and I still have my doubts if he will win a championship but I feel he is better than some of you give him credit for.
I don't understand why people have to come on here every day bitching about him either because it will not change a thing. For the time being he is our coach and nothing you or I say on a message board will make a difference.
Look how many posts are in this thread about Scruggs visiting Monday 2-3 weeks ago. 95% of them are about Crean. People come on here everyday bitching about Crean because they get responses. So it kind of works both ways. If you aren't going to Tuscany, why do care if there is an apartment available for rent. If Crean isn't going anywhere who cares what they say about him. I'm fine with Crean for now. He has the program looking good and deserves the opportunity to see if he can take another forward with the program.
That Sampsung team with gordon was really not a very efficient offensive team if my memory serves me right and it just wasn't because of gordon's injured hand. Gordon has just became somewhat efficient in recent seasons in the NBA. Crawford is like the most inefficient NBA player ever. That said, from a coaching perspective, i think he is probably a better coach than Crean. I don't really understand why he came back to college. The NBA thinks highly of him and he'd probably be a head coach in that league had he stayed there. With all the money being thrown around in that league, I'd say he made a mistake. Somehow I think he feels he was treated to harsh and wants to right that wrong. He could be back in the Big 12 soon if they take on Houston into the conference.
That Sampsung team with gordon was really not a very efficient offensive team if my memory serves me right and it just wasn't because of gordon's injured hand. Gordon has just became somewhat efficient in recent seasons in the NBA. Crawford is like the most inefficient NBA player ever. That said, from a coaching perspective, i think he is probably a better coach than Crean. I don't really understand why he came back to college. The NBA thinks highly of him and he'd probably be a head coach in that league had he stayed there. With all the money being thrown around in that league, I'd say he made a mistake. Somehow I think he feels he was treated to harsh and wants to right that wrong. He could be back in the Big 12 soon if they take on Houston into the conference.
The problem with this is he had the program looking good 4 years ago and he deserved an opportunity then to move it forward and then he laid a huge turd and a medium size turd the next two seasons. How do you not freakin get that?
Based on 17 years of coaching, we could play this game again and again and again and call it Ground Hogs Day.
you just want IU fans to shut up? we shouldn't want more than thrashings in the sweet 16? pshawwww! IU fan still has a lot invested in this program despite some really down years. you should be thankful we all still care or else this program turns into Illinois.
but go on complaining about the complaining if that somehow makes you feel wise. hehe. the negativity is a gift if you view it as passion.
and how do you know he isn't going anywhere? dude has gone to 3 NCAAs in a row just once and at two basketball schools to boot. lol. that leads me to believe he has about a 50/50 shot of surviving the next two years. winning coaches win. end of story.
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You view everything from the isolated personal vacuum of your own mind and constantly state your feelings. If anything ever didn't matter, and was a waste of time, that's number 1 on every list. Stating feelings is for Justin Bieber fans. Try reasoning once. If you're capable.
So how has the bitching and moaning about Crean every day the last 3 years paid off for you guys. Crean is here even though there has been a lot of fans upset so I don't see what purpose it brings to do this daily. Unless you are a big time donor Glass does not really care what the regular fan thinks of Crean and will make his own decision.
Then please don't come here, Scott. You really don't add anything to the discussion.
Well Scott, this is a message board. It's for conversation and sharing information, not dictating University policy. Some of us don't like our coach, some of us do. Our conversations are inflected by those opinions. Quit trying to dictate conversation. You're not the board content police.
Sorry that I didn't convey my message properly. It was intended for Scott who seems to be indicating he doesn't want the anti-Crean posts being posted. Why should he care what is posted regarding Crean. He can ignore those posts if he is tired of them. ala the Seinfeld reference regarding Tuscany.
I'm not a big fan of Crean and get the anti-Crean points. Those posts could be made every day for all I care. They do not bother me nor do the ones defending him. It would not bother me to see them replace him tomorrow but isn't it kind of late for that now. I'd prefer to see if those 2 years in 2014/15 were based on the recruiting of bad apples because IMO, the team seems to have rebounded and is in a good spot. There are no excuses for underachieving next season. I think he is on his last life. So he better keep the recent progress going for a while.
I think Glass very much does care what fans think. And I'd venture to say most "big" boosters feel the same way that other fans do. Fred tied his own hands with the ridiculous buyout he gave TC a few years back. He won't make that mistake again. I think you're going to see a whole different Fred Glass moving forward. I doubt he puts himself in another situation like that moving forward.
From what I have read on the other site that the buyout money was already raised and Glass could have used it anytime he wanted. Crean is still here so to me that means Glass is happy with how things are right now. I just don't think Glass cares what non boosters think like most of us on this site.
You "read on the other site" so it's true? Throw all common sense out the window? You don't pay a $15 million buyout (that YOU gave him) when you're trying to raise millions for new facilities. You just don't.
Again, Glass himself tied his hands with that absurd contract. It won't happen again. Once bitten, twice shy.
It was said that big time donors raised the money for the purpose of the buyout only
Man, I hope you are right. I keep telling myself the same, but after each year I'm less confident it's true.
That may or may not be true - if so it tells you what the boosters think of him. But paying it is another thing. Glass would have to admit he made a huge mistake in the first place, and then be comfortable telling every donor that they just wasted $15 million on his mistakes. Glass wasn't going to do that. But he also won't put himself in that situation again. I can guarantee that.
Glass will probably extend him after this season as I fully expect us to win 25 plus games.
Xavier and Cincy area is much less desirable to live in as a college student than Bloomington.
Remember the X and Cincy basketbrawl and their multiple dust-ups on the court.
IU has a much nicer campus.
IU has 5 National Titles.
Xavier has never made a Final Four in the history of their school.
It makes no sense from a personal, academic, career, and athletic standpoint to choose X over IU.
Remember the X and Cincy basketbrawl and their multiple dust-ups on the court.
IU has a much nicer campus.
IU has 5 National Titles.
Xavier has never made a Final Four in the history of their school.
It makes no sense from a personal, academic, career, and athletic standpoint to choose X over IU.
Not if he flames out in the S16 or earlier again. It simply won't happen. He's not blind to the opinions of the fan base. TC is coaching for his job this year.
You got it Scott. CTC is not going anywhere and could be here another 15 years if he wanted.
Who knew an innocent post on July 30th would generate almost 17k views during the down months. Love it..
You obviously have never been on the Xavier campus, been in Cintas Center or met Coach Mack. Cincy has a great social offering for a college kid. Lots of great eateries and micro-breweries.
Unless you have a bias, you'd know Xavier offers a lot for a kid. Mack is the biggest reason, though.
Makes you wonder why, in spite of your ridiculously biased list, Xavier is apparently the more attractive option for players with Indiana ties, doesn't it?
What other other player is X leading on other than Scruggs? It is looking like IU will get an official for Scruggs. I think that is positive news.
I believe they lead for Trevon Bluiett and definitely did for Remy Abel.
You're thinking of Wilkes.
Scruggs took an unofficial to IU on August 1st, just a few days before the official to Xavier. It's possible that he might end up taking an official visit to Bloomington, but nothing is planned at this time.
Wilkes & Scruggs.
Paul is trying to talk Kris into playing together. That would have the best chance of happening at X. Will be interesting to see how his home visit with Mack and his trip to UCLA goes. I'd call both of them the favorites right now.
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