Russia-Ukraine war has begun
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
He is pushing non-aligned into NATO and he is pushing the actual members closer together.
Sounds like they completely misjudged the level of discontent they were going to meet from the Ukrainians as well.
Russia spent $61.7 billion in 2020 on defense. Germany spent $52.8, France $52,7, and the UK 59.2. Those three account for $164 billion compared to Russia's $61.7. Throw in Italy's $27 billion and those 4 are triple the money and there are still a lot of European countries to go.Putin will evicerate NATO. The Baltics are next on his todo list. . Estonia has a significant Russian population. There is that Slliver of Russia nestled between Poland and Lithuania. Putin will start with cyber and insurrection thus making Article V ambiguous. Furthermore, Germany, the largest NATO economy besides the USA, is militarily impotent, the result of years of not living up to its NATO obligations. Oh, did I mention Trump saw this and tried to get Germany to step up but the Democrats accused him of weakening NATO? Besides, Germany and Russia are economically joined at the hip.
German army chief says service ‘stands bare’ from neglect as its forces are placed on deployment alert
The highest ranking officer in the German army on Thursday publicly lamented years of fiscal neglect and the army’s deteriorating readiness, as the U.S. and NATO allies mobilize in response to Russian aggression in Ukraine.www.stripes.com
Oh, the US spent $778 billion.
Russia can take the Baltics simply because NATO isn't forward deployed there. But NATO aircraft would extract a painful toll on Russia. Russia would find its air force virtually eliminated and her armor formations badly damaged. If Russia is willing to lose all that to take the Baltics, then she can take the Baltics. If I'm willing to go to jail to rob a bank, then I'll rob the bank.
Germany had 500,000 in the army at the end of the Cold War and had the best equipment. Now it has <200,000 and no ammo
While I mostly agree with that point, sometimes the money comparison is not apples to oranges because the West does a better job of paying and taking care of their soldiers.
There are rumors/reports (no idea if substantiated) re Putin's health. Ranting and shit. Kind of scaryPutin will evicerate NATO. The Baltics are next on his todo list. . Estonia has a significant Russian population. There is that Slliver of Russia nestled between Poland and Lithuania. Putin will start with cyber and insurrection thus making Article V ambiguous. Furthermore, Germany, the largest NATO economy besides the USA, is militarily impotent, the result of years of not living up to its NATO obligations. Oh, did I mention Trump saw this and tried to get Germany to step up but the Democrats accused him of weakening NATO? Besides, Germany and Russia are economically joined at the hip.
German army chief says service ‘stands bare’ from neglect as its forces are placed on deployment alert
The highest ranking officer in the German army on Thursday publicly lamented years of fiscal neglect and the army’s deteriorating readiness, as the U.S. and NATO allies mobilize in response to Russian aggression in Ukraine.
I would say Russia's military capability is FAR more advanced than any military the US has faced in the last 25 years. But, as someone noted earlier, the gap between us and them is enormous. We'd take more losses than we did in Iraq (both times) and Afghanistan combined, but Russia would be devastated. Their only trump card are nukes.
Most of that money Russia spent was on upkeep and updating antiquated systems. They do not have a modern military at least not by western standards.
They have a gen 5 fighter. They can't afford to build it. India was financing it until they pulled out. They designed a new tank, it went into service in 2015. Ordered 2700, then cancelled the run. They have two. Two, that's it. Though they are expected to start a new run this year. With this recent action, they probably won't be able to afford it.
This isn't the USSR of the 1960's. They're not a superpower, they're a failing criminal/kleptocracy with nukes.
We would certainly, Russia is a level up from Iraq. But they were also the primary supplier to Iraq.
You can Google it, a force of 500 Syrians and Russians attacked a force of 40 Americans in Syria. No Americans were injured, we believe over 100 enemies were killed (they reported 55).
Battle of Khasham - Wikipedia
We would lose the Baltics, we don't have the troops there in enough strength to defend it. But our training is better, our command and control is better, our equipment is better. I suspect our morale is better as Russia still relies heavily on conscription. Draftees are seldom as motivated. The question for Putin and his generals is what is he willing to lose to take on NATO over the Baltics. If he's willing to see his military significantly degraded, he can take it. I don't know for how long, if the Baltic people go guerilla then it becomes a problem for Russia.
Putin has revived it-big time. The world and Europe now see that there is no such thing as a docile, peaceful Russia and they need to be prepared.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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Your mom calls me Comrade
Yes, Russia isn't close to the old USSR. There equipment is more limited. Her supply chains will become problems leaving Russia. Her ability to project power will drop dramatically leaving Russia. So we aren't facing a USSR sized threat.
That is why Putin is doing what he is doing. But they have numbers, and for the Baltics they have location, location, location. The Baltics are the extreme NATO flank and thus difficult to protect. I think the wargame RAND ran in 2017 or so suggested it would take 3 brigades, one armored, to slow them down enough for help to arrive. We have never placed that, there is a cost to deploy there. For us, those countries are tripwire. If Putin moves in, we have to deal with the problem.
Even if Russia had the military might of decades past, they are expecting to put the democracy genie back in the bottle. Maybe you could do that in the 50s and 60s. Not now, though. The popular resistance that they didn't expect in Ukraine, they'll get all over again if they rattle swords at Poland, Finland, Sweden. Plus they might even get enough popular resistance in mother Russia to convince some oligarch and like-minded generals that their leader is getting a bit deranged and need to drink the potion.
Maybe NATO doesn't have the chops to directly get in the way with boots on the ground until a few other countries fall, but they can aid the popular resistance before that, which can't be ignored
Maybe NATO doesn't have the chops to directly get in the way with boots on the ground until a few other countries fall, but they can aid the popular resistance before that, which can't be ignored
My Son-in Law who is a Marine stationed at Camp Lejeune was informed yesterday morning to be on stand by. I'm sure many battalions were told the same thing. He is scheduled to get out in August and just had his first child in November so it is hitting close to home. We spoke to him last night and he said he is prepared to do what is asked.
On a side note he also said the US Military is not as it once was or what it was depicted to be. He went in 4 years ago expecting a much more rigorous journey he said it didn't live up to the billing.
What will they use? RAND wargamed it with armored columns. I'm thinking cavalry looks cool but doesn't work.
I agree it isn't completely apples to apples but it also explains the morale component.
This is all completely insane, as in I never thought I’d see something like this in my lifetime.
I’d just like to take this opportunity to say F**K RUSSIA and F**K Putin.
I’d just like to take this opportunity to say F**K RUSSIA and F**K Putin.
Ukrainians claim 200-300 of their people died. Sources say that Russians lost more than 800 (no idea if that means killed or detained). In either case it’s bad for Russia. It’s the reason the Russian called in the Chechnyas.
The reason NATO is toast is because blunting insurrection, cyber attacks, and manipulated unrest is not its mission. The world has moved on from the 50’s. The Democrats say Trump was Putins stooge. If true, shouldn’t that be a NATO article 5 issue? We all know that Russia thing was a huge hoax, but that doesn’t mean the next Russian interference in a government won’t be real. This is how Russia will attack the Baltics.Putin has revived it-big time. The world and Europe now see that there is no such thing as a docile, peaceful Russia and they need to be prepared.
No, I think you're wrong about that.
NATO will have air superiority - no doubt about that. With many of its troops in Ukraine, Russia will not defeat NATO.
you don’t think NATO countries have cyber attack capabilities and use them? Where are you getting this?
Did you see Kamala in Munich earlier in the week? "Guys, this is serious......"
Dumb and Dumber.
everybody, US included, cut their budgets after USSR dissolved. There was nothing to defend against for several years. We actually paid down some debt for a couple years. Weird times.
again, Europe should be on the hook too but not sure what the point of the revisionist bit is other than you hate one us political party and ❤️ the other
China said “ talk”
Is a feint
Putin has to be all in - you don’t accidentally invade nations.
He either wins or dies.
Doesn’t Russia have super fast nuke missiles now? Faster than the speed of sound and more powerful than a locomotive? Supernukes?
Why not see the same scenario play out in Kiev as did in Georgia.
Main aim of those negotiations was by diplomatic pushing to cut out from Georgian Army the armaments and general military means that they were having a big problem with.
Now everyone knows why people are revolting in Russia.
Boots on the ground and air power are greater than some hacker behind a computer screen.
Agreed. But an open democracy is more vulnerable than a closed dictatorship.
We need to go all in on supporting Russian war protests. Our cyber abilities can foment more and more unrest. I think this is very important.
www.npr.org
Hundreds are arrested as shocked Russians protest Ukraine attack
Celebrities and other public figures joined people in dozens of cities in condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
www.npr.org
If the war bogs down into a quagmire, then yes that might work but not yet.We need to go all in on supporting Russian war protests. Our cyber abilities can foment more and more unrest. I think this is very important.
Hundreds are arrested as shocked Russians protest Ukraine attack
Celebrities and other public figures joined people in dozens of cities in condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
EDIT: Yeah why not!!
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We need to go all in on supporting Russian war protests. Our cyber abilities can foment more and more unrest. I think this is very important.
Hundreds are arrested as shocked Russians protest Ukraine attack
Celebrities and other public figures joined people in dozens of cities in condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Wow.........courageous people.
This isn’t over yet. Ukraine gonna make this difficult
