Russia-Ukraine war has begun
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
Geez
abcnews.go.com
'Massive' barrage of Russian missiles target Ukraine, killing 37 and striking children's hospital
At least 37 people were killed across Ukraine early on Monday, as attacks were launched against five cities, officials said.
Putin should be on a terrorist list. There is no military value in such attacks.Geez
'Massive' barrage of Russian missiles target Ukraine, killing 37 and striking children's hospital
At least 37 people were killed across Ukraine early on Monday, as attacks were launched against five cities, officials said.
WIll the world hold them responsible, when this is "over"? I seem to think that the world doesn't have the stomach to actually fight a strong puppet leader. .. head to head. I wish I could say that this is beyond the pale... But every world leader seems to be symbolic only in their fight back, so far. Remember Strength through personal fear... oh wait, that wasn't exactly the quote.Geez
'Massive' barrage of Russian missiles target Ukraine, killing 37 and striking children's hospital
At least 37 people were killed across Ukraine early on Monday, as attacks were launched against five cities, officials said.
If someone doesn't put putin's head in a toilet soon, we are all going to be tasked at killing multi million Russians... That isn't cool nor will it be cost free.
Better act quickly or pay for a very long time.
Two things:
1. Drones being used at this level really take quite a bit of humanity out of the equation. The moment these things become more autonomous through AI type of programming is a truly scary thing. War is already terrible business, remove the humanity from it and, well, future warfare looks more like just wanton slaughter. We joke about Skynet but we are almost there.
2. The Russian state is the bad guys here and I know that they are committing crimes as well, but it should give us pause that our allies are shooting war crime porn and sharing it on Twitter(X) as propaganda for their side. Murdering wounded soldiers who have given up is a terrible look. These videos are all over Twitter and they actually have the opposite effect on me than I think the Ukrainians may be intending.
It’s hard (impossible at this point) for a drone to take a prisoner. If it didn’t kill or wound him he’d get back into the fight for the Russians. If the drone had been a soldier, that would have been a war crime. War is changing.
I am still not convinced it was not a war crime. He was wounded (can see blood on leg of uniform), they flew over him a few times and he signaled, "Hey, I can't fight". Then they dropped a grenade on him and just maimed him even more. Yeah, a drone can't take a prisoner but at a certain point it is kind of bad form to kill incapacitated soldiers on a battlefield that are clearly out of the fight.
Put another way, this wasn't an indiscriminate shelling of an area that happened to catch wounded. It was a targeted attack flying over a battlefield to finish people off. Morally I don't see how this is any different than walking around a battlefield and executing the wounded.
And this isn't just a Ukraine thing, there is video of Russian soldiers shooting prisoners in a trench that just came out recently too. The Russians are the bad guys but videos like that make them sympathetic. Ukraine is shooting themselves in the foot if they think that is good propaganda for them. It makes them look as bad as the people they are fighting.
Concur that it’s not a positive look for Ukraine. It is a tough case with or without video.
Yeah, it goes back to drones being a whole new thing that we need to think about. We are likely approaching the point where we have the ability to send out robots programmed to kill. Picture a world where you send out a swarm of drones to drop explosives on individual soldiers like this and then follow that up with robots programmed to shoot anything with a pulse. I mean, a human didn't pull the trigger and anyone not dead or egregiously maimed has the potential to be patched up and returned to conflict and it technically isn't a person pulling the trigger......
We are in the early stages of setting the rules of engagement with these weapons. I don't like the avenue our allies are driving that conversation down.
I imagine the intended effect is to demoralize Russians, but I agree - it's not a good look for the Ukrainians.
I've seen other videos - earlier in the war - where drones direct Russians to surrender.
War is a merciless business.
Russians have been accused of shooting POWs as well, recently, near Robotyne. It wasn’t a polite war from the start. Russians have attacked civilian targets, arguably to demoralize the Ukraine.
Eventually it gets to a tit-for-tat game..
I understand the "bad look" vibe, a very little bit. I better understand that there is the orch that is trying to kill me and my kids. Is a part of an operation that just shelled a children's hospital. I couldn't give two shits, if me killing the enemy who SUDDENLY had a change of hart only because he wasn't dead enough yet... was a bad look. Or anyone 10,000 miles away who would blame me, while setting on their couch. Just sayin.
You're right. The gloves are off when a children's hospital is intentionally bombed.
The dirty secret is there are no 'rules of war'. When one side is in a fight for its life, there are no rules.
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Going with that, reading Holland's book on the early war in Europe, Britain was preparing to use chemical weapons if Germany invaded.
Yeah, I mean look at Japan and the kamikaze pilots. They were ready to suicide the entire population.
That's more than just situation. Entirely different cultural context.
Yea, I wonder if someone, standing in front of a Jap Kamikaze, waving for mercy would have called for a "war crime" after they were blown up?
The UK estimates over 70,000 Russian casualties in May and June. Largely due to poor training.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk
Russia suffer 70,000 casualties over past two months says UK
The average daily casualties (killed and wounded) among Russian forces reached conflict highs of 1,262 in May and 1,163 in June.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk
Which I understand to a degree, however, when you videotape that and send it out to the world as a "Look at the good thing I have done," it should give you some pause. Around 20 years ago that same type of thinking justified sawing people's heads off for the camera. Yeah, war is ugly and bad shit happens but I think you need to think long and hard about the repercussions of making war crimes part of your propaganda.
Do we really want to advocate that what they are doing is the NATO/Western position on modern warfare? I get that sometimes at an individual level that soldiers get pressed and react to the barbarity around them in barbaric ways, but this is state and basically NATO sanctioned executions playing out on Twitter. We do have some moral high ground over our enemies. I would like to retain that high ground. At the very least we should be telling the Ukrainians to knock it off with the war crime porn they are showing on Twitter. Be more discrete you dipshits because we have domestic concerns here at home too. Our people like to feel like the good guys with who we support and with pressure to stop funneling you money already building in the country, the last thing you or we need is our citizens thinking you are just as bad as the Russians. Read the room.
Russia has lost 100 T90M tanks. Putin's "best in the world".
www.businessinsider.com
Russia has lost at least 100 of the T-90M tanks Putin praised as the 'world's best' in Ukraine, tracker data shows
Military analysis site Oryx, which uses visual open-source information for confirmation, recently reported the staggering T-90M losses.
www.businessinsider.com
I bet Putin can't wait for Trump to get in there....... (a little humor for the TDS sufferers here) j/kRussia has lost 100 T90M tanks. Putin's "best in the world".
Russia has lost at least 100 of the T-90M tanks Putin praised as the 'world's best' in Ukraine, tracker data shows
Military analysis site Oryx, which uses visual open-source information for confirmation, recently reported the staggering T-90M losses.
But seriously...... I do think Putin is probably looking for a way out with some kind of gain, at this point. He may jump at the chance to let Trump mediate. This isn't political or a reason to vote for Trump - I just think Putin has to see the stalemate and doesn't want to negotiate with Biden. That would not be a good look in Moscow, sine he convinced his buddies that invading Ukraine was a good idea with Biden as President.
He didn't count on NATO stepping up and a fairly well-trained Ukrainian military. I give both Trump and Biden credit for building up NATO before the invasion and for keeping NATO together - and expanding - during the war.
Russian top technology
They said I'm going out with my girlfriends
Vodka shooters that are Ukrain'ian
Oh Mercy was the worlds only thought
Vodka makes your tops fall off.
We told them put an extra cope cage on
We know what happens when you find a drone
Your force is missing 1/2 a million they brought
Vodka makes your tops pop off.
They said I'm going out with my girlfriends
Vodka shooters that are Ukrain'ian
Oh Mercy was the worlds only thought
Vodka makes your tops fall off.
We told them put an extra cope cage on
We know what happens when you find a drone
Your force is missing 1/2 a million they brought
Vodka makes your tops pop off.
Some poor sap in Siberia is just waiting for his number to be called.
Pretty clear it's a stalemate and will remain so until there's some kind of open revolt or Putin dies/leaves office. And I imagine he's holding on to see who will be the next President.
I agree. It appears that with the current level of weapons, UA are able to hold pat but not advance. OR maybe the plan is exactly that for now. We are ~38 days until Russia casualties hit 600,000. They are now rolling out t-54 (I think is the model) tanks which I think is 1950-60 era. UA drone game is insane.
So when shaming doesn’t get the job done … this happens in one party countries.
ISW 7/29
The Kremlin is likely attempting to establish prominent standards of acceptable and unacceptable behavior among populations within Russia whose behavior has recently threatened the Kremlin.[9] Many facets of the Russian ultranationalist information space supported then-Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin's June 2023 rebellion following months of online complaints against the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD)'s conduct of the war in Ukraine, prompting the MoD to crack down against prominent complainants and promote self-censorship among milbloggers.[10] Russian opposition groups voice their opposition to the Kremlin, its wars, and other policies online, and the Russian Federal Financial Monitoring Service (Rosfinmonitoring) designated 55 of these organizations, including regional organizations advocating for ethnic minorities, as "extremist" organizations on July 29 in an effort to stifle them.[11] Russian ultranationalists have levied widespread complaints against migrants following multiple high-profile terrorist attacks, and the Kremlin is undertaking surface-level measures that largely appease the ultranationalist community and provide further mechanisms through which the MoD can coerce migrants into military service while broadly failing to address the rising threat of Islamic extremism in Russia.[12]
I guess labeling them terrorist organizations is the next step.
… also today a pile of money was announced.
ISW 7/29
The Kremlin is likely attempting to establish prominent standards of acceptable and unacceptable behavior among populations within Russia whose behavior has recently threatened the Kremlin.[9] Many facets of the Russian ultranationalist information space supported then-Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin's June 2023 rebellion following months of online complaints against the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD)'s conduct of the war in Ukraine, prompting the MoD to crack down against prominent complainants and promote self-censorship among milbloggers.[10] Russian opposition groups voice their opposition to the Kremlin, its wars, and other policies online, and the Russian Federal Financial Monitoring Service (Rosfinmonitoring) designated 55 of these organizations, including regional organizations advocating for ethnic minorities, as "extremist" organizations on July 29 in an effort to stifle them.[11] Russian ultranationalists have levied widespread complaints against migrants following multiple high-profile terrorist attacks, and the Kremlin is undertaking surface-level measures that largely appease the ultranationalist community and provide further mechanisms through which the MoD can coerce migrants into military service while broadly failing to address the rising threat of Islamic extremism in Russia.[12]
I guess labeling them terrorist organizations is the next step.
… also today a pile of money was announced.
Well I thought it was, but I am not finding much more about it on other sites. so who knows now?
Looks like it might have been real. There's video of explosions and evidence of fires outside a town called Sudzha, as well as claims that some Russian soldiers were captured, and that Russia has already pushed the Ukrainians back across the border. Probably a diversionary tactic.
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