So when do we get to a point, when historically rouge bad actor, gets their shit destroyed, …. Let’s saaaay, when we watch them amass massive troops and armor on the boarder of their neighbor for a month?
Rhetorical question.
Russia-Ukraine war has begun
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
Rhetorical question.
I am all in favor of 1) loudly telling Ukraine we do not allow them to attack across the border 2) quietly rescind 1 when Russia has amassed troops just behind the line.
Ok, so we can very VERY softly agree here.
But why do we tip toe around russia routinely killing Ukraine civilians at will, but tie the hands of those we are sending and spending billions to, to help them kinda sorta defend themselves? Seems like yet another great way to spend tax payer money, but won't allow it to have the utmost effect that it was built for to begin with.
Its like;
Here's a really nice rubber, we've taken it upon ourselves to cut off the reservoir tip so we don't piss off the catholic's. go gett'um tiger. Just makes no sense at all.
Wouldn't it be fiscally better just to let Ukraine die quickly? Oh that would be a moral outcry though. What a conundrum. Save face by letting people die slowly. I'm not a fan.
(This wasn't pointed at you, only points to argue/ discuss).
My stance would be. Heres some of our 1960 era crap that we are throwing away. Hey Putin, if this tears up your toys, just think what our 2020 era stuff would do. We are giving this to a sovereign nation to dispose of for us, as a favor. How they do so??? up to them. I'd suggest that if you don't want to see what 1960's will do. Leave them alone. Your call.
Some Russian think tank thinks a little nuclear weapon demonstration would be a good idea:
I don't like where this leads, but we absolutely cannot flinch in the face of something like this. Give Ukraine the green light.
We should be mindful of the game we are playing. It is a dangerous one and we also have some of our NATO allies that we are treaty bound to defend talking about a "Coalition of the Willing" being built up around Ukraine. This is a dangerous and complex situation with our best in charge, let alone with the Keystone Cops currently running the show.
Evidently it's not a broad approval. It's for areas around Karkhiv, which is less than 20 miles from the Russian border.
There have already been strikes into Russia by drones and, evidently, non-US supplied weapons. There was no big escalation after those, and I doubt there will be now.
ISW has a deeper read than recent weeks tonight. Necessity creating new battlefield tactics with drones, with Russians slow to adapt.
I think it would take Russia longer than three years to prepare for a Red Storm rising event in Eastern Europe. Hundreds of lost multimillion dollar jet aircraft and main battle tanks should take longer than a few scant years to replace. I will say that shortness in 155 mm shells and tank rounds would need to be remedied to minimize a potential advantage of a Russian massed artillery barrage.
All NATO main battle tanks have been proven to be superior to Russian models. Russian armor tactics seem little better than Saddam’s use of T74s. They haven’t conducted a competent combined arms attack yet. I think Ukraine has demonstrated NATO would enjoy air superiority.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-4-2024
Key Takeaways:
I think it would take Russia longer than three years to prepare for a Red Storm rising event in Eastern Europe. Hundreds of lost multimillion dollar jet aircraft and main battle tanks should take longer than a few scant years to replace. I will say that shortness in 155 mm shells and tank rounds would need to be remedied to minimize a potential advantage of a Russian massed artillery barrage.
All NATO main battle tanks have been proven to be superior to Russian models. Russian armor tactics seem little better than Saddam’s use of T74s. They haven’t conducted a competent combined arms attack yet. I think Ukraine has demonstrated NATO would enjoy air superiority.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-4-2024
Key Takeaways:
- Select Russian military commentators continue to complain about superior Ukrainian drone and electronic warfare (EW) capabilities on the battlefield, continuing to highlight the rapid and constant tactical and technological innovation cycles that are shaping the battlespace in Ukraine.
- Ukraine and its partners have reportedly drafted a document for the Global Peace Summit in Switzerland on June 15 that calls for future engagement with Russia on a limited number of issues connected to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, although the Kremlin remains unlikely to engage in meaningful negotiations on the proposal or any wider settlement to the war in Ukraine.
- Russia is conducting a wide-scale hybrid warfare campaign targeting NATO states in tandem with Russian efforts to augment its conventional military capabilities in preparation for a potential conflict with NATO
- A joint investigation by Russian opposition student journal DOXA and open-source outlet Kidmapping highlights the role of the Kremlin-backed Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) in Russifying Ukrainian children whom Russian authorities have deported to Russia.
- Russia is conducting a wide-scale hybrid warfare campaign targeting NATO states in tandem with Russian efforts to augment its conventional military capabilities in preparation for a potential conflict with NATO
And if, by 'hybrid warfare' they mean drowning the internet with fake news and bots, they're already doing that.
The US tests Putin’s nuclear threats in Ukraine
Allowing Ukraine to fire Western weapons into Russia strengthens an ally, but risks violating an unknown red line.
www.vox.com
" In recent months, the US has urged Ukraine to stop its attacks on Russian oil refineries, due to the risk it could drive up global oil prices."The US tests Putin’s nuclear threats in Ukraine
Allowing Ukraine to fire Western weapons into Russia strengthens an ally, but risks violating an unknown red line.
Wow. So we're hobbling Ukraine for oil prices??? I wonder if that will change after November?
Under a drone-filled sky, Ukraine tries to retake a town, one house at a time — Guardian US
Hardened Ukrainian veterans hope new supplies of US rockets will help push Vladimir Putin’s forces back
This is what pisses me off: "In an attempt to keep fresh recruits on the battlefield, Ukrainian legislators earlier this month lowered the draft eligible age from 27 to 25."
25??? Why isn't it 18? We had 18 year olds dying on D-Day. Ukraine is in a fight for its life - start acting like it.
That popped out in my mind as well. 25...twenty five???? i kinda flipped out.
we do a lot of things with an eye on oil prices and world stability, see our recent efforts to protect oil tankers from Houthis. this is where US interests take priority over Ukraine's. also, a jump in oil prices would hurt Ukraine's PR battle much more than it would hurt Russia's ability to continue the war. look at the populist movement wanting to jump ship now.; rising oil prices would not help the cause there.
please, tell us what you think will change if your guy wins in Nov? has he given any indication that he would let US missiles be fired at Russian oil infrastructure? any at all? or has he really just said he'd get a deal done in a day?
here's his plan. for today anyway. bankrupt Russia by making oil cheap (again, something he couldn't do by letting Ukraine attack Russian oil assets). that plan would also bankrupt a large segment of our oil industry.
Trump’s plan to end the Ukraine war: Bankrupt Putin’s regime
The conviction of Donald Trump in a criminal trial in New York has electrified the race for the White House. But will it make a difference to how the arguments will play out in the campaign — espec…
www.politico.eu
I can tell you if 'my guy' was in office today and the charge was that we are afraid oil prices will rise so close to the election, he would be impeached for 'election interference'.we do a lot of things with an eye on oil prices and world stability, see our recent efforts to protect oil tankers from Houthis. this is where US interests take priority over Ukraine's. also, a jump in oil prices would hurt Ukraine's PR battle much more than it would hurt Russia's ability to continue the war. look at the populist movement wanting to jump ship now.; rising oil prices would not help the cause there.
please, tell us what you think will change if your guy wins in Nov? has he given any indication that he would let US missiles be fired at Russian oil infrastructure? any at all? or has he really just said he'd get a deal done in a day?
here's his plan. for today anyway. bankrupt Russia by making oil cheap (again, something he couldn't do by letting Ukraine attack Russian oil assets). that plan would also bankrupt a large segment of our oil industry.
Trump’s plan to end the Ukraine war: Bankrupt Putin’s regime
The conviction of Donald Trump in a criminal trial in New York has electrified the race for the White House. But will it make a difference to how the arguments will play out in the campaign — espec…
Shit, he was found guilty on 34 felony charges of bad bookkeeping for payments to a porn star. You think they'd hesitate to do it if he was was accused of holding off on attacking Russia so oil prices don't increase?
We aren't hobbling them. We made a request - which we absolutely should not have done - and they politely told us to f*ck off and continued to bomb the oil refineries.
Why Ukraine Should Keep Striking Russian Oil Refineries
Washington’s fears about energy markets are misplaced.
This isn't a defense of the request. I'm just pointing out that thankfully Ukraine ignored it.
The notion that Russian refining capacity has a big impact on refined petroleum prices in the US is a stretch.We aren't hobbling them. We made a request - which we absolutely should not have done - and they politely told us to f*ck off and continued to bomb the oil refineries.
Why Ukraine Should Keep Striking Russian Oil Refineries
Washington’s fears about energy markets are misplaced.www.foreignaffairs.com
This isn't a defense of the request. I'm just pointing out that thankfully Ukraine ignored it.
Ukrainians aren’t attacking Lake Charles, LA. Modern Armies run on diesel and Jet A.
OK, attempting to hobble them.....We aren't hobbling them. We made a request - which we absolutely should not have done - and they politely told us to f*ck off and continued to bomb the oil refineries.
Why Ukraine Should Keep Striking Russian Oil Refineries
Washington’s fears about energy markets are misplaced.
This isn't a defense of the request. I'm just pointing out that thankfully Ukraine ignored it.
Russian army runs on some crude shit that isn’t refined enough for anyone else in the world, as I understand their equipment.
It’s like petroleum jelly thick sludge, as I understand it.
The jets probably need J4, or kerosene. Mayyyy run on deseil? But the armor runs on junk.
I heard today we're sending a new Patriot battery there. I wonder if they're doing this before it gets there.
News of successful strikes didn’t make the late news.
Russians were reported by ISW (as I recall) to be working on their strike tactics.
One can only get so far checking tactics with table top exercises.
Might be seeing a replay with Finland and the Baltic states
Well, they managed to work Trump into the story.....
I doubt this happens in the Baltics or Finland. Those borders are well defined and guarded and they're NATO countries. Putin is going for the low hanging fruit.
Russia removes buoys on Estonian border, EU demands explanation
Russian guards removed some buoys their Estonian counterparts had placed on a river separating the two states in a move EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell called “unacceptable."
Putin dies, leaving a country in full blown civil war. Ukraine has managed to find $500 ways of destroying 3 million $ weapons.
The war of attrition is now in Ukraines favor just like everything Russia has tried for 30 + yrs. The population that have experienced western philosophy are starting to stand up.
Keep hitting the refineries, put two or three dozen drones into the heart of Moscow…. The Ukraine rebuild story will be fabled for eons.
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Mind gamesRussia removes buoys on Estonian border, EU demands explanation
Russian guards removed some buoys their Estonian counterparts had placed on a river separating the two states in a move EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell called “unacceptable."www.foxnews.com
There was an announcement of a border change with Lithuania and Finland. Of course, I can’t find it now. I probably ended up corrupting my phone looking for it. I think it was put out by the defense ministry. But, not sure.
I believe they will go forward with the attempted border changes. I’m not sure their play with announcing the change
Russia is, not surprisingly, facing a labor shortage. Putin gave a speech and this was on the Kremlin's website from the speech, "We are faced with not only a task, but also an opportunity to begin the massive attraction of qualified migrants from abroad."
Growth of the military, more need for Defense Industrial Base production, and a very low birthrate* has to mean that a war of attrition isn't good for Russia either. He goes on to say that immigrants need to speak Russian and know Russian traditions and values. So I'm not sure where Russia will find a lot of immigrants with those qualifications. Otherwise, I would think many 3rd world countries would have plenty of labor for Russia.
*Our birth rate, which is too low for a healthy economy, is 1.66. Russia's is 1.49. Ukraine's is a dismal 1.16.
www.newsweek.com
Growth of the military, more need for Defense Industrial Base production, and a very low birthrate* has to mean that a war of attrition isn't good for Russia either. He goes on to say that immigrants need to speak Russian and know Russian traditions and values. So I'm not sure where Russia will find a lot of immigrants with those qualifications. Otherwise, I would think many 3rd world countries would have plenty of labor for Russia.
*Our birth rate, which is too low for a healthy economy, is 1.66. Russia's is 1.49. Ukraine's is a dismal 1.16.
Putin admits he is running out of workers
The Russian president told the St Petersburg International Economic Forum how the country needed to increase its workforce.
www.newsweek.com
I can see the brochure:Russia is, not surprisingly, facing a labor shortage. Putin gave a speech and this was on the Kremlin's website from the speech, "We are faced with not only a task, but also an opportunity to begin the massive attraction of qualified migrants from abroad."
Growth of the military, more need for Defense Industrial Base production, and a very low birthrate* has to mean that a war of attrition isn't good for Russia either. He goes on to say that immigrants need to speak Russian and know Russian traditions and values. So I'm not sure where Russia will find a lot of immigrants with those qualifications. Otherwise, I would think many 3rd world countries would have plenty of labor for Russia.
*Our birth rate, which is too low for a healthy economy, is 1.66. Russia's is 1.49. Ukraine's is a dismal 1.16.
Putin admits he is running out of workers
The Russian president told the St Petersburg International Economic Forum how the country needed to increase its workforce.
Come to Russia! Known for our brutally cold winters, bread lines, and authoritarian leaders!
Right now, we're offering a special: immigrate today and you'll receive a get-out-of-fighting-in-Ukraine pass, good for 1 whole year!
Requirements: ability to work, speak Russian, and have our values, like not questioning your leader!
Russia does have a selling point. A guy who was in my lunchtime basketball group 20+ years ago had been a Marine guard at the embassy. He believed nowhere in the world had the attractive young ladies that Moscow had.
I’ve been to Vladivostok and they have some of the best looking young women I’ve ever seen. The older folks, not so much.
G7 leaders agree to lend Ukraine $50 billion using frozen Russian assets
The money would come from interest accrued on some $300 billion.
