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Russia-Ukraine war has begun

Marvin the Martian said:
Dictators seem to never wonder what is in the best interest of the people.

Russia has spent big money building things like the hypersonic missile. They want it to brag, and the look good in parades.

What I didn't realize, and it seems overall the US didn't realize, was how thin Russia's supply capabilities were. From day 1, it has been a problem. But trucks don't look good in a May Day parade.

It also looks their training is subpar. Again, other than marching in step, training doesn't make the May Day Parade more exciting.

I worked with a woman years ago who had spent a year in the USSR in the mid 80s. She said we greatly had overestimated the Soviet army. Her tip, a Moscow hospital with screens in the surgical room instead of windows.

Overall though, Ukraine's military is deeply steeped in Soviet doctrine. I doubt the average Ukrainian soldier is that much better trained.

But undoubtedly Ukraine's troops are more motivated.

I wonder if Wagner Group is finding it hard to recruit mercenaries? Because pay is better, I would think trained soldiers would prefer going to work for them. My crazy guess, not many international mercenaries want to work for Russia, and most Russians don't want in Ukraine.

But the events of the past week answer the question I have had since the second week, why didn't Putin commit more. I assumed he had more control over Russia than it appears he has.
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Wrong on the training. We’ve been training the Ukrainian military in the western/US military way of organizing, training and fighting for almost 10 years. It’s made a huge difference.

Incidentally we had over 200 Ukrainian military in the US for training when Russia invaded. Mostly officers.
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
Wrong on the training. We’ve been training the Ukrainian military in the western/US military way of organizing, training and fighting for almost 10 years. It’s made a huge difference.

Incidentally we had over 200 Ukrainian military in the US for training when Russia invaded. Mostly officers.
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We started that right after they lost Crimea, correct?
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
Ugh. The only way we survive this is if Russia's generals already have a guy on Putin's security team set to put a bullet in his head if he tries to go too far.
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I think Putin realizes using nukes would upend the whole world order. akin to 9/11 (but probably much, much worse), the US would draw a line and the whole world would have to formally pick a side. no exceptions. india and china would not be allowed to straddle the fence as they can now. even if we stopped short of direct attack, I'd think any state or entity cooperating with russia on just about anything would then be open to US-led harassment, isolation, and possible attack. Black Sea closed up, naval blockades in the north. US ships intercepting cargo ships abroad. pipelines closed up. western troops and nuclear missiles would be moved into Scandinavia, the Baltics, Poland. satellites start bumping into satellites, whoops.

seems like the plan was to reclaim Russia's buffers in phases so as not to trigger anything like the above. I think they'd rather take a loss and live to fight another day, Putin included. the US cannot protect all its allies from land attack but I think we kind of have a vague but critical agreement with the western world that we are going to make the rules as we see fit, and those rules will sometimes oppose your interests, but the oceans will always be protected and nukes will not be a major threat.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
It appears Roger Waters agrees with this thought.
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Roger Watters is correct on his reasoning of a lot of things but he has no “better ideas.” He’s the worst kind of woke, the guy who can’t figure out that there are winners and losers in everything. He just sides with the losers.
 
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INRanger27 said:
Roger Watters is correct on his reasoning of a lot of things but he has no “better ideas.” He’s the worst kind of woke, the guy who can’t figure out that there are winners and losers in everything. He just sides with the losers.
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more proof that wokism and maga are populist cousins. Standing tall for Russia against the institutions that have kept world peace for a few generations.
 
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bub-rub said:
more proof that wokism and maga are populist cousins. Standing tall for Russia against the institutions that have kept world peace for a few generations.
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100%. The MAGA flex to not want to help Ukraine is baffling and stupid. But that’s MAGA for you.
 
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INRanger27 said:
Roger Watters is correct on his reasoning of a lot of things but he has no “better ideas.” He’s the worst kind of woke, the guy who can’t figure out that there are winners and losers in everything. He just sides with the losers.
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Ukraine probably explains the state of his and Gilmour's relationship as well as anything.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
I understand. But once nukes are in play, that escalation leads to...very bad things.
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Well, yeah, that's the real world. You didn't grow up with the threat of nuclear war - I, and other boomer, did.

At some point, you've got to be willing to strike back or the entire world will never take you seriously again.
 
DANC said:
Well, yeah, that's the real world. You didn't grow up with the threat of nuclear war - I, and other boomer, did.

At some point, you've got to be willing to strike back or the entire world will never take you seriously again.
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I'm not a boomer, but I am just barely old enough to have drills and warnings in school about the evil empire.

I don't know how I'm being unclear here. I'm not proposing laying down for the man. I'm just pointing out that standing up to him could get us all blown up, and that's a real possibility that we need to plan for, and make a part of our strategy.
 
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DANC said:
Well, yeah, that's the real world. You didn't grow up with the threat of nuclear war - I, and other boomer, did.

At some point, you've got to be willing to strike back or the entire world will never take you seriously again.
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You don't have to be a Boomer to have grown up with that threat.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
I'm not a boomer, but I am just barely old enough to have drills and warnings in school about the evil empire.

I don't know how I'm being unclear here. I'm not proposing laying down for the man. I'm just pointing out that standing up to him could get us all blown up, and that's a real possibility that we need to plan for, and make a part of our strategy.
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Well, yeah, it's a real possibility. Water is wet.
 
DANC said:
You kinda do. If you don't remember the Cuban missile crisis, you don't know the feeling.

You may think you do, but you don't.
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I"m sure that was very scary for you, DANC.

But I laid awake plenty of nights scared to death of dying in a nuclear blast from the Russians and the end of all life as we know it. Watch The Day After when you are 11 years old and you certainly "know the feeling" of the threat of nuclear war. Listen to and read talking heads telling you how that crazy, senile, cowboy, war-monger Reagan is going to kill us all. I remember it well.
 
BradStevens said:
I"m sure that was very scary for you, DANC.

But I laid awake plenty of nights scared to death of dying in a nuclear blast from the Russians and the end of all life as we know it. Watch The Day After when you are 11 years old and you certainly "know the feeling" of the threat of nuclear war. Listen to and read talking heads telling you how that crazy, senile, cowboy, war-monger Reagan is going to kill us all. I remember it well.
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It was scary for everyone. Very traumatic for children and parents.

I'm not downplaying your experience, but watching a movie doesn't have the same effect as seeing the situation in real life.

People didn't go out and build bomb shelters after watching The Day After like they did during the Cuban Missile Crisis. It wasn't a feeling of 'what if' then - it was "when".

I'm just saying people of my generation have lived through that and we're aware of the consequences. But that should not, and will not, deter the US from responding in kind and more if the Russians use nukes.
 
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BradStevens said:
I"m sure that was very scary for you, DANC.

But I laid awake plenty of nights scared to death of dying in a nuclear blast from the Russians and the end of all life as we know it. Watch The Day After when you are 11 years old and you certainly "know the feeling" of the threat of nuclear war. Listen to and read talking heads telling you how that crazy, senile, cowboy, war-monger Reagan is going to kill us all. I remember it well.
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I was afraid too. And then the blueprint for how to defeat the Russians was gloriously laid at our feet and with it - hope.



WOLVERINES!
 
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