Sorry I can only give one Like. Thanks for posting this.
Realistic coaching list….
- Thread starter bsmitty08
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But the IU administration woildnt allow that. They have damaged this program for 23 years now. They really just dont seem like they want to win.
You repeated an argument that was already debunked. First of all, where do you get this 95% stat from? Secondly, are you implying if we keep CMW that IU retains most of the roster for next year?
Man...don't know anything about the site or the "insider" you're referring to...but even if there's just a kernel of truth to this...
Every game and day that goes by, I think the possibility of Woody NOT being IU's coach next year seems more realistic.
Today, I wouldn't yet say its in any way likely. But if our current trend and trajectory continue...AND if there's any truth to what you posted... Either IU or Woody, or both, will pull the plug at seasons end.
Are there any recent quotes or anything from Donovan regarding coaching in college again?
Also, despite FPeaugh's tragic claims last hiring cycle...does anyone know if Dolson and IU did have conversations with Donovan?
His Bulls contract is coming to an end. He doesn't have an extension yet. Is it really outlandish to think with the right package and offer, that Donovan would consider college again, and specifically IU?
Just asking questions here...Woody is our coach, and as I said in another post, right now I think its unlikely that changes any time soon. But if we're going to fantasize about coaching replacements, why not discuss the actual best possible one?
Lets manifest this one to reality people!!!!!
Also, despite FPeaugh's tragic claims last hiring cycle...does anyone know if Dolson and IU did have conversations with Donovan?
His Bulls contract is coming to an end. He doesn't have an extension yet. Is it really outlandish to think with the right package and offer, that Donovan would consider college again, and specifically IU?
Just asking questions here...Woody is our coach, and as I said in another post, right now I think its unlikely that changes any time soon. But if we're going to fantasize about coaching replacements, why not discuss the actual best possible one?
Lets manifest this one to reality people!!!!!
The more I hear Dusty May, the more I like the guy. If I was Dolson, I'd be checking in with this guy regularly, even if it's just to say "we're not looking for a coach, but if anything were ever to happen..."
Not that I've heard, but again, this is Dolson's job. He should be constantly touching base with any possible candidates, just as a precaution, and to know who to include should he ever have to do a search. Don't get caught flat-footed again! I'd be checking out all the guys mentioned here: Wright, Donovan, Pearl, Beard and May.
I wonder if there are "tampering" rules in the NCAA? It'd be fascinating to know what all is allowed, and how these vetting processes and conversations play out.
Also, kinda doubt Dolson is doing much actual conversing with other coaches right now. I just hope he's deep into actively evaluating Woody.
He’s in a tricky spot of his own doing. If he does want to fire Woody, he looks bad since he hired him, setup the Matta structure that failed, and gave him a raise six months ago. Hard for Pam, Trustees, and donors to trust him on another hire. Maybe they don’t care — IU athletics isn’t logical.
Maybe he can pin the Woody hire on Quinn and therefore justify giving himself another chance to make a hire.
NIT looks to be a given, and this team might really collapse as the season goes on. Recruits won’t like seeing this, and the portal may result in players jumping ship. We also need to build a backcourt in the spring portal. This is a bad spot, Dolson has to see it.
To me, making the NIT wouldn't be the sole, or even main, reason to look into firing him. It'd be the mood in the building, the attitude of the players, any sort of realization that Woody doesn't realize his system isn't working right now and isn't open to changing, if the post about recruiting falling off is in any way true...a combination of those sorts of things THEN makes the actual game results this year mean more.
But if Dolson determines that this team just hasn't gelled like they thought they would, that there has been a fair bit of bad luck with Newton injury, X injury, JHS leaving early being a surprise, whiffing on ALL the guard prospects we were in on last recruiting cycle, etc... And that he generally trusts Woody will address all of it...then no way an NIT season, after 2 NCAA seasons, is grounds for being fired.
Agree, the projection of where we are going as a program is the most important thing vs one bad season. What is most likely the next few years.
I’m concerned six months ago he gave Woody a raise and said he was pleased with the direction of the program. There is disagreement on this but the direction is not good right now.
I’m concerned six months ago he gave Woody a raise and said he was pleased with the direction of the program. There is disagreement on this but the direction is not good right now.
Donovan has been one of my favorites for years and prior to his B2B championships. Even enjoyed his playing days at Providence and the FF. No sure things in life but he would be a great fit at IU if he commits to the college environment with recruiting, NIL, the portal and capturing the best Indiana high school players available.
That was because some donors were willing to bail IU out by picking up the tab. Otherwise Allen would still be here.
I think something similar probably applies here, especially so soon after the Allen buyout: the team would not only have to miss the tournament, the program’s wheels would also have to come completely off for some donors to tell Dolson “here’s $12 million bucks; FIX THIS NOW.”
Without that happening I would expect this staff to be back next season.
Don’t forget they also are depending on these donors for NIL money. Note what happened with Allen. Allen lamented about IU getting into the modern era of college football. I think what he referred to was lack of NIL funds. Allen gets replaced and lo and behold more NIL money starts coming in. Are we at the point the big donors that seriously fund NIL lack confidence in Woodson and decide to sit on money they would normally give for the coaches to spend on players? Apathy is dangerous, and I am afraid we are closer to that in many regards than some realize.
Yea. We spend so much on NIL (top-5 or so) and we’re NIT and around 90 in all the different rankings. Who wants to donate for such a bad ROI?
Still at 100 NET ranking and that is the only one that has a real impact on team success since basis of at large tournament invitations.
To be fair...6 months ago was July...
We had inked Ware and MM...X was returning...Malik was returning...Trey was returning...we were bringing in Gabe and Jakai...We had Walker and Sparks coming for quality depth...And we had just come off a top 4 finish in the conference, round of 32 NCAA, and sent 2 players to the NBA. There were questions about shooting and guard play. But "most" of us thought X and Trey would be quite a lot better and more reliable than they have been...and we thought we'd get more out of the other guards, including CJ and Gabe. Can't remember if Jakai had already had surgery or not at that point? And I'm sure many were still holding out hopes that we'd get another portal kid too at that point. Point is, not many complained about the bonus at the time.
If Dolson isn't seriously worried about Woody's competency, and/or the direction he's taking the program, then any thought of firing him is silly. If he is worried about some of those things, it isn't silly, and if those things get bad enough, it might be necessary.
Not the only basis, but its a good metric to follow, for sure.
To be a safe at large team, we need to...
1. Win out at home, that would give us 10 B10 wins alone, and Wisky, NW, Nebraska, and MSU could all be Quad 1.
2. Win at OSU...that's a winnable road Quad 1 game, and would be huge for NET ranking.
3. Win one of the harder road games, either at Illinois or at Purdue...also huge for NET.
4. Win 2 out of 3 at PSU, at Maryland, at Minny.
If my math is correct, that'd put us at 14-6. That'd be good enough to overcome the really poor preconf schedule, and showing against the lesser teams.
Obviously right now, its pretty much impossible to see it unfolding this way. The only good thing is the Big10, overall, is fairly average this year. So if X can regain some decent form, and if Woody can help to show some of the resilience his first two teams showed about this time of the year...you never know.
Play our best ball and win the next 4...and we're squarely in the picture again.
Well, five months makes it worse.
That’s all true, but no one (or close to it) had us top-25 preseason. If we were looking decent we would have gotten some folks ranking us 20-25, that’s not a high bar. A lot was uncertain then and it wasn’t time for a victory lap (or celebratory cigar) of a raise.
Agree not many people complained at the time, it’s not a material amount of $ so hard for anyone to care. My concern is Dolson thought things were looking very good, and they have went the opposite, therefore I worry about his judgement. Plus he hired an old NBA coach to begin with.
Idk, we’ll see. Maybe I’m wrong. Hopefully someday we figure it out at IU.
Good perspective I hadn't thought of.
I suspect the bonus was in the works for a while, if not even known by Woodson that'd he'd get it...but for sure, it does come across like an actual vote of confidence. Which I agree, wasn't completely warranted at that point in time.
I wasn't as worried about the guard situation as some were...but I was very worried about style of play. Probably somewhat of a chicken/egg kind of thing looking back. I personally would have "forced" the perimeter oriented style from "day 1"...but obviously there's a lot to be said for catering to your most talented players strengths. And as of July...there was enough evidence to be more worried about it all, I'm sure.
Last season Pitt got in at 67th and was 67th in the NET. FDU got in at 68th due to a technicality moving Into D1. The seedings are not that strongly tied to NET but the bottom of the at large invitations strongly tied to NET in practice. Yes of course need Quad1 wins to improve ranking. Currently 0/5 Quad1. Pitt at 67th last season was like 5/4 Quad1. Nebraska and Northwestern are home games and as it stands today would be Quad2 not Quad1.
season
Jeez. The Bucks just fired Adrian Griffin with a record of 30/13 thus far in the season. Now that is a tough organization.
Very wild guess...but if we did what I laid out...we'd have to push for top 50-60 NET. Its more difficult to move up and down the longer the season progresses. But that would be 3-4 Quad 1 wins, and a decent amount of Quad 2 road victories.
13-7 or 14-6 in B10, Top 60 in NET, handful of road conference victories...I bet we'd get in, and maybe comfortably with a 7-8 type seed.
I would think this occurs, but probably more covertly. Such as a Dolson trusted confidante having a discreet conversation with a trusted confidante of the coach. With hypotheticals such as. “Were we to unexpectedly find ourselves without a coach - what level of interest might your coaching friend have?”
Right, everyone agrees the talent on the roster is plentiful. The roster isn't the issue. It's the coach.
Conjecture? Do you not see frequent examples of coaches leaving teams and players/recruits following them? Look at our new FB coach and recruits he brought. Conjecture…lol.
I guess I need to educate you on what your last statement was in that post and it had NOTHING to do with players - LOL indeed - Good grief.
I will cut and paste.
"However, once it becomes known in the coaching circle that it’s 3 years or the road, your roster of candidates diminishes."
You are welcomed.
There is no proof that Woodson is not out recruiting 2024 recruits.
Mike Woodson out watching key Indiana basketball recruiting targets on Tuesday night
Indiana basketball has a week between games which has allowed head coach Mike Woodson to hit the recruiting trail. On Tuesday night, Woodson was out in North Carolina to watch numerous key 2024 and 2025 prospects. Overtime Elite (Ga.) had multiple games in Lincolnton, including two that included...
hoosierillustrated.com
If top 60 in NET then yes we get in. Hope is the last to die so all we can do is hope at this point.
We got a gift of a 4 seed last year (should have been about an 8) and still managed only one win. Our tournament results were also consistent with 8 seed not 4 seed. Pre tourny NET ranking was 30.
The days of the selection committee bearing gifts for the Big10 to see poor tourney performance have to be nearing an end.
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Yo said a coaching change turns over 95% of the roster, Where did you obtain that stat? That's how it was debunked. You're full of it.
Sweet, that means the new coach coming in will bring talent? Awesome! It's a 2-way street.
I
not entlrely correct. The backcourt is barely MAC level. It is not any where near upper D1.
That's valid. I mean most knew the SG position was lacking in comparison to the rest of the positions but were also hoping X was an all-conference caliber PG. Some here were declaring Cupp was going to shock the world THIS YEAR. Getting people to be realistic instead of hopeful is such a struggle. People need to separate what they want from what they actually see.
We were predicted to win the B1G last year but those who are defending the ideology we should hold steady with CMW proclaim a 4th place finish means the coach didn't do all that bad. No, that means we underperformed with possibly the best player in the nation and the #17 nba pick in the draft.
Notice a team like Wisconsin who always outperforms their preseason lack of talent predictions to the point that most predict them to finish higher regardless of talent because they're always coached up....and they still outperform those standards? That's coaching. Notice our team never scratches the surface of even the modest predictions based on the talent we have yet we still have people thinking, "but what if we wait one more year to make sure?"
Look at the Mickey D roster. IU will once again have another one and possibly even 2 of them. Rutgers and Washington will be the only B1G teams with a player on that roster. Yet IU will finish in the middle of the pack and there will be ample excuses when that roster finds a way to underperform. It's mind boggling.
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Agree on most of this. I'm sure I've posted as much many times since Woody arrived.
The context was both firing Woody now/end of THIS season, and also did he deserve that "bonus"?
After last season, and through the summer, IU basketball was in a better place it had been in a number of years. Did the team last year fail to meet expectations? Yes. But Woody is the one that raised those expectations to start with...he deserves credit for that. AND, X and Race's injuries also should be taken in to account. Its not fair to say, "everyone has injuries"...not everyone loses their starting PG for the entire season. And one of their key front court player for multiple games.
I'm as down on Woody as anyone right now. I've been constant and consistent with my concerns and complaints with his coaching, and his style of play. But there's NO WAY firing him would be justified purely from on the court results, at this point. It would have to include mood, attitude, differences in direction, etc...
It wasn't raised expectations as much as a rise in hope. Expectations weren't in place due to Woody proving his prowess as being a successful head coach. The raised expectations were purely based on the talent Archie left for Woody (TJD) and the incoming recruiting class Woody recruited. Recruiting can certainly be a piece of it, yes, but if you can't coach them, the recruiting quickly becomes meaningless which is why we now go back and negate his biggest positive as providing us nothing. We don't hang banners for recruiting class rankings.
Those expectations you speak of were merely hopefulness, not a validation of something that had been accomplished. Most assumed with that level of talent, even a bad coach could do big things and thereby we were feeling good with where we were. Then last season started good, had some fun moments but slowly sputtered out into a first weekend blowout knowing we were going to need to turnover most all of our roster.
The idea though was CMW wasn't prone to run an offense through a guy like TJD but did so due to his obvious talent. This year though, he was going to install an NBA offense and he brought in the talent to accomplish that. This was the foundation of where hopefulness lied this year but as we have now seen, all of it (so far) looks to have been smoke and mirrors. I am not proclaiming we need to take action now, I am saying if this season plays out as it has so far, there is no doubt in my mind we need to move on. Period.
Sanctimonious doesn't fit you well, you just look like an ass. My statement stands. Hopefully, you and those who agree with you will never be in a position where we have a 3 year rotation and the dismal state of candidates that comes with constant turnover. Doesn't seem like you can recognize that though.
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