Post for the people coming out of the woodwork
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I have vented enough. I just accept that we are one of the worst run athletics departments in the country and there is nothing we can do about it.
This is dumb. Anyone calling for Archie’s job is dumb too. The guy is a great coach and a great recruiter and all he needs is time and we will be back with the blue bloods before we know it. Forgot everyone on here was professional scouts and administrators. Everyone who says anything about Archie failing will be sucking their own words in a few years. IU ball is already more fun to watch this year than last year. Can’t do anything about getting whipped by MSU when the talent level is much lower than Sparty.
I don’t think anyone is blaming Miller right now.
But we should blame Fred Glass for letting our program sink to this point.
You can do something and stop rooting for IU and find a team that meets your expectations.
Anyone who didn’t think this was a very realistic possibility is a moron.
IU hasn't been able to stockpile the talent. Our talent doesn't run deep, so to speak. When we get really talented players who make a difference, they leave early for the NBA and it seems to set back our program more than the true "blue bloods" who loose talent early, too. Loosing three last year killed us. IU isn't as attractive to this younger generation of players, for whatever reasons. It will get really ugly around here if we don't land Langford.
I read everything, but rarely comment. Here it goes...
The culture of IU was birthed during a time when the style of BK matched midwest basketball. We loved it because it was hard-nosed, tough defense, and unselfish basketball. We loved watching guys like Uwe Blab play roles in a system that NEEDED him. It was fun, action-based, system-oriented basketball.
Just as the '57 chevy is a beautiful as it was in 1957, there will never be another Indiana team like the ones we enjoyed as kids. Why? Because the internet has removed geographical boundaries and introduced kids to influences from all markets, whereas the kids we grew up with were influenced by their high school coaches, friends, and family. The fact of the matter is, kids are as informed of the value of other markets and schools as much or more than the recruiters; information is power.
Our challenge, as fans, is to embrace the new market demands and to hold our teams accountable for leadership and play that does not position us in way that enables us to win in this market. Yes, this means we have to consider the style of UK as an option, as it has proven to be a style that wins. Does that mean we want that style? Probably not. It does mean, however, that we have to acknowledge the style is a dominant leader in the current market.
I believe Archie's approach to coaching is attractive to the IU fan base because it is a throw-back approach of tough defense with system-based motion. It works, but only with the right players who embrace the role-based mindset. Now, this is a very important point as four and five-star kids today are used to being leaders on their teams, and not role-based players. This kind of player is hard to find, but it not impossible. Case in point, Butler. Brad Stevens used role-based players in a system that beat a lot of very talented teams. One could argue that Butler's approach was based out of necessity, as Butler's ability to recruit athletic players was limited at best, but nonetheless it proved that a system-based approach with role players works; no more, no less.
I liked watching Butler under Steven's leadership. I don't want to watch an IU team that is made of a bunch of run-and-gun/one-and-done players like UK, so I accept the fact that IU will need time to build its system. I do, however, think the system is repeatable so players will be attracted to play on a team that will require longevity to see playing time. This means players will stay longer, and we will embrace loyalty from high school coaches, players, and most of all, fans who want to wear their favorite player's jersey for more than one season.
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to join your discussion. I truly enjoy reading opinions and arguments that are based on a solid understanding of the fundamentals of basketball.
Good point, here. Our world has definitely gotten smaller, almost overnight in relative terms.
Ironically, I remember the disgruntled ones disillusioned with Knight felt that the game had passed him by. They claimed his structured, more disciplined style of play was no longer conducive to attracting the outstanding players with NBA aspirations. We find ourselves thinking we need to go back to the way it used to be, now that the newer way isn't working to our satisfaction. Human nature can be a funny thing and I don't mean that in a humorous, guffaw laughter type of thing here.
On a side note, Purdue has a reputation for being a "big center school" type of basketball school. Similarly, they traditionally have the "quarterback school" tag. What they have is a unique product that other schools aren't used to playing, now that more colleges are mimicking the NBA game of smaller, quicker players with less emphasis on the big centers of the past. It's rare that one of their players leaves early, as it is with Butler.
I wish you were right, because judging him on this year, & maybe even next is silly to put it mildly. But unfortunately there are posters like fpeeeaugh & a few other Alford lovers that won’t be happy unless he fails
One player will determine the future of the program? That’s an interesting assessment...
I think this might not be an accurate assessment. I don't know of any other poster that likes Alford as much as I do, and I'm a huge Miller fan as well. Fpeaugh didn't want Alford at IU at all from what I remember, and is also a big Miller fan.
I seriously doubt there any IU fans (ones that follow college hoops more than casually) that blame anyone other than Tommy Basketball for the situation this season. Yes, I had hopes for a good year this year because of the coaching change, but quite a few things needed to fall in place... they didn't.
Archie already has his foundation class on the way, so I would still give him high marks no matter how many games we lose this season. I'm not going to pretend that this season is in any way fun, but my enthusiasm for the next few years couldn't be much higher. Every IU fan that I know is as excited about the future as I am... and equally excited to get this season over with
Why don’t you call out all the posters who have the made the judgement that he is a great coach and he is better than Calipari? If you can’t make any negative judgements, why can someone make positive judgements? I made the judgment that he is a better coach than Crean, are you going to call me out?
People pointing out Archie did a poor job against ISU, FW, and Wisconsin, is an ok judgement, and a true statement. Is it all his fault, of course not, but he does deserve some of the blame. A dumb judgment is if people make the claim that he should be fired because of this year or next, which no one has. It’s also dumb to claim he is going to be the next great IU coach and is a better coach than Calipari.
I like Archie and hope he is the guy, but I’m not going to claim he is great until he proves it. I’m also not going to claim he should be fired until he proves it. He gets 4 years like everyone else. I will however make judgments throughout the 4 years he is here. Some positive and some negative.
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I don't think you have to go the UK style to win the championship since UK has only won one during this time period. Look at the top 3 teams in the country right now in Villanova, UVA and Purdue. The thing they all have in common is that they are mainly junior and senior laiden teams.
I have not seen any posters saying he is better than Cal is right now so stop with the over the top comments.
I had the same exact thought. I would also include Norh Carolina. They get more 5 stars than the 3 teams you listed but they also get a lot of guys in the 20-80s that end up staying 3 or 4 years.
They have had only one and done player the last few years and that was Bradley and he wasn't expected to be a one and done player.
There was an entire thread where people argued that Calipari wasn’t better than Archie.
I never saw anyone say that but people do think that Cal is not as good of a game coach as people think he is. People think Cal should have been able to win more championships when he always has the most talent each year.
You had All Americans Don Sclundt, Archie Dees, Walt Bellamy and Kent Benson when we were playing with guys like 6-7 Terry Dischinger at Center. Our first good big center, aside from Stretch Murphy at 6-6 in 1932, was Joe Barry Carroll in 1977-80.
Very true about Purdue, except how far they go will be determined by a sophomore and a freshman.
Well, while Crean was here he beat Calipari two out of the last three times.
Alford? I’ve never wanted Alford. I’ve always said I like Archie. And I’m not panicking now. I’m going to give him a couple years regardless.
I’m just not crowning him as a great coach yet and claiming he’s better than coaches like Cal. That’s ignorant imo. He still has everything to prove.
Being realistic doesn’t make people any less passionate as fans.
Dead on. Great post.I think this might not be an accurate assessment. I don't know of any other poster that likes Alford as much as I do, and I'm a huge Miller fan as well. Fpeaugh didn't want Alford at IU at all from what I remember, and is also a big Miller fan.
I seriously doubt there any IU fans (ones that follow college hoops more than casually) that blame anyone other than Tommy Basketball for the situation this season. Yes, I had hopes for a good year this year because of the coaching change, but quite a few things needed to fall in place... they didn't.
Archie already has his foundation class on the way, so I would still give him high marks no matter how many games we lose this season. I'm not going to pretend that this season is in any way fun, but my enthusiasm for the next few years couldn't be much higher. Every IU fan that I know is as excited about the future as I am... and equally excited to get this season over with
You take the last few weeks off Scott? That’s literally been a daily claim on here lately.
Injuries are always a possibility and then it becomes an issue of who gets hurt, how badly and Who is the backup. Some teams can absorb injuries better as long as it isn’t their absolutely most Indispensable player ala Trae Young and Oklahoma.
I think most are saying they would rather have Miller running IU than Cal but not because we think Miller is the better coach. I just wouldn't ever want Cal running the IU program because of what he stands for when it comes to running a program. I also don't want him here because he has left two schools vacating final four trips. I would never want a coach say that the best day in the history of the program was getting 6 players drafted over winning championships.
I, for one, am not excited to "get this one over". It's fun watching this team develop. They are getting better as the season goes along, exhibiting toughness, learning to work for shots, and learning to take care of the ball. The defense, despite limitations of personnel, is getting better. I do look forward to having more pieces next year, but this team is more enjoyable to watch than any IU team in a while. I know they has a massive let-down last night, but that was against one of the 3 or 4 most talented teams in the country with a HOF coach.
I think this might not be an accurate assessment. I don't know of any other poster that likes Alford as much as I do, and I'm a huge Miller fan as well. Fpeaugh didn't want Alford at IU at all from what I remember, and is also a big Miller fan.
I seriously doubt there any IU fans (ones that follow college hoops more than casually) that blame anyone other than Tommy Basketball for the situation this season. Yes, I had hopes for a good year this year because of the coaching change, but quite a few things needed to fall in place... they didn't.
Archie already has his foundation class on the way, so I would still give him high marks no matter how many games we lose this season. I'm not going to pretend that this season is in any way fun, but my enthusiasm for the next few years couldn't be much higher. Every IU fan that I know is as excited about the future as I am... and equally excited to get this season over with
I don't get the Calapari love. He wins because he recruits at a high level and manages players well. His system is just cut and paste NBA style. His successful teams had senior leadership, and even he admits, Pgs who are able to call the plays and are ready for NBA stardom. I can't think of any examples of players who were markedly better leaving UK than when they got there. He does have NBA connections and markets his players to them very well. Plus, the benefits of playing in the pick and roll systems NBA teams use helps. IMHO, based on talent level, he has been outcoached many, many times (including by Crean, as IU didn't have a talent level deserving to compete with them, let one beat them, most of the times they played under Crean). I don't understand how his players put up with him repeatedly calling them out, but I guess the benefits outweigh the negatives? The borderline illegal dorms and shady stuff probably don't hurt, and there is nobody who does a better job of getting high level NBA talent drafted highly. One championship with the level of talent he has had, and what one final 4 that stands?
As far as Glass is concerned, I get the idea he held on to Crean too long, but any real justifications of moving on are kinda revisionist history. Judgement on programs (Women's bball and fb) are a joke. He's done what he is supposed to do financially and with facilities. So, the only real misstep was the extension to Crean, but he pretty well either had to move on after a #1 ranked team that won the B10 out right and made it to the sweet 16 or give the extension. You can't recruit if prospects don't know you are going to be there. For many reasons (financial, perspective, etc), his hands were tied after that. Archie was a home run hire. End of story.
Or Vincent Edwards or Haas
You do remember we won the Big Ten regular season the year before last? Maybe you referring to style of play only and that is what brings you such joy. Overall, I would say we've seen some pretty bad basketball being played by our boys in cream and crimson.
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There were warning signs years ago that Crean was mismanaging the program and Glass either ignored or was ignorant of them. 2014 was the time to move on. The fact remains that under the leadership of Glass, we are going to miss the NCAA tournament for the sixth time over the last decade. That is not acceptable. The women’s basketball program is in the toilet, the Wilson situation was bungled and the Allen hire is looking suspect as well. As far as the contract extension given to Crean back in 2012 is concerned, Glass got caught up in the moment and hype of being preseason #1 and made a mistake.
We need someone who understands sports and can evaluate and hire coaches properly. Every school is building new facilities so Glass gets no special credit there.
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