Playing devil’s advocate on Cignetti…

[IUFreak]

JMU has been an FCS powerhouse for years. Everybody who coaches there does well. The last coach only lost 2 games but has not fared very well at East Carolina. What makes Cignetti different?

(my take as a long suffering fan is…maybe nothing. It’s IU football, We make the best hire we can, roll the dice, and hopefully one of these times we catch lightning in a bottle. Lord knows we’re due).

 

[EvansvilleHoosier88]

He was one of the coaches to beat that coach at a significantly lesser program. He won before coaching JMU and he has won there against much steeper competition since being there. Fair point to make, but I think he just knows how to win and get the most from his squads.

 

[bang63]

JMU has been an FCS powerhouse for years. Everybody who coaches there does well. The last coach only lost 2 games but has not fared very well at East Carolina. What makes Cignetti different?

(my take as a long suffering fan is…probably nothing. It’s IU football, We make the best hire we can, roll the dice, and hopefully one of these times we catch lightning in a bottle. Lord knows we’re due).

I don’t expect big things in Cignetti’s ( if he’s hired) 1st year or 2 either. I do expect improvement and do expect him to choose the best qb without a battle going 2 or 3 games into the season. I expect him to make good decisions on the sideline and not lose due to not being prepared.

 

[Tegray1]

We lost 4 games by less then 10 points last year. How can you not expect big things in year 1? If he gets 4 million in NIL, that's 4 times more than CTA ever had.

 

[82hoosier]

And this candidate search is now over 24 hours.

 

[edub72]

With the transfer portal and nil, IU should be competitive and win 5 plus games in first year

 

[IU_Hickory]

Elon was 4-20 before Cignetti arrived. In 2 years under Cignetti, they were 14-9. Not world beaters but a marked improvement and he beat JMU with Elon before switching to JMU.

 

[Vern Pain]

We lost 4 games by less then 10 points last year. How can you not expect big things in year 1? If he gets 4 million in NIL, that's 4 times more than CTA ever had.

Depends. Can he get Mcculley, Sorsby, Lewis Moore, etc. out of the Portal and back to IU? While the recruiting class is not one of our best ever, can he hold it together enough to not have to essentially start from ground zero?

I remember the first Kevin Wilson season vividly. I remained encouraged for that, and the next two seasons because you could see, at least offensively, things were going to get better.

 

[IUNorth]

We lost 4 games by less then 10 points last year. How can you not expect big things in year 1? If he gets 4 million in NIL, that's 4 times more than CTA ever had.

"expect" is a tough word for much of anything relating IU football right now.

"big things" would also need to be defined.

IF Cignetti is the guy, and if we fund his staff to be exactly what he wants it to be...

THEN...I would expect the program to be obviously well run. That would probably be it for my expectations for year 1.

I would have a lot of very strong hopes... that they'd use the new NIL money wisely and fill out a competitive 2 deep, that they'd convince a decent chunk of guys to return...that the play on the field is solid and exciting...that we'd win our OOC games and at least a couple B10 games...and that the general feeling, for everyone not just IU fans, is that IU is a program headed in the right direction.

 

[jaygyure]

With the transfer portal and nil, IU should be competitive and win 5 plus games in first year

I don't see why not - Indiana had a pretty reasonable shot at winning 5-6 games this year. Louisville, MSU, Purdue all could have gone our way. Of course that's why we are where we are now......

 

[IU_Hickory]

Someone mentioned McCall as a possible option. Maybe even get an improvement at QB.

Might make players think twice about putting their foot out the door if we are able to just shut it

 

[OpenWheels]

I only see that he appears not to have skeletons in his closet, seems ethical, and has a solid resume. He's a professional coach. With a good background.

If he's not THE pro coach, so be it.

If we have a pro coach, we'll have good football to root for. All I care about, being proud of the program.

 

[td75]

With the transfer portal and nil, IU should be competitive and win 5 plus games in first year

Honestly, with eight home games, the elimination of the bizarre divisions, a growing NIL pot, I expect a frigging bowl season...This ain't 1984 and Bill Mallory's situation!!!

 

[76-1]

Honestly, with eight home games, the elimination of the bizarre divisions, a growing NIL pot, I expect a frigging bowl season...This ain't 1984 and Bill Mallory's situation!!!

That will depend greatly upon whether or not he can convince 9 to 14 of the 20 guys we have the Portal right now to come back; the key guys being all the Offensive Linemen aside from Sales, then the Defensive linemen and our starting FS...

I'd like to see the full 14 best back but we could piece together a decent team with those O & D linemen and the FS...

 

[IU_Hickory]

on the bright side, if we end up with a lot of openings to fill, the coach can bring in a lot more players that might better fit what he is trying to do.

Just because a lot of portal guys didn't pan out under Allen doesn't mean the portal won't be helpful under the new coach.

 

[kmathum]

JMU has been an FCS powerhouse for years. Everybody who coaches there does well. The last coach only lost 2 games but has not fared very well at East Carolina. What makes Cignetti different?

(my take as a long suffering fan is…maybe nothing. It’s IU football, We make the best hire we can, roll the dice, and hopefully one of these times we catch lightning in a bottle. Lord knows we’re due).

we still have to have the players but now i feel we have the coach who knows how to best utilize those players. if it is indeed cignetti.

 

[Bligedy]

JMU has been an FCS powerhouse for years. Everybody who coaches there does well. The last coach only lost 2 games but has not fared very well at East Carolina. What makes Cignetti different?

(my take as a long suffering fan is…maybe nothing. It’s IU football, We make the best hire we can, roll the dice, and hopefully one of these times we catch lightning in a bottle. Lord knows we’re due).

Yeah. Same thing with Archie Miller at Dayton. Everyone wins at Dayton. Kinda feel that way about the Toledo guy, too.

Mostly I don’t love the idea of a 62 year old coach.

 

[Bowlmania]

There's no question that he's a good coach. My concern is this. If he gets the job (and it appears he's the front-runner), he'll be moving up - - - way up - - into a power conference. It's been a long time since he's been involved at this level, and never as a head coach. He needs good players to compete. How will he sell Indiana University football? How effective will he be in retaining some key existing players who have entered the portal. Will he and his staff be able to recruit at a high level? Time will tell.

I would have preferred a big, splashy hire but the reality is that big, splashy hires aren't usually interested in IU. Money talks, but not always. This may be as good as it gets.

In any event, if it's Cignetti, I wish him the best and will continue to bleed cream and crimson regardless of what happens.

Go Hoosiers!

 

[IUNorth]

There's no question that he's a good coach. My concern is this. If he gets the job (and it appears he's the front-runner), he'll be moving up - - - way up - - into a power conference. It's been a long time since he's been involved at this level, and never as a head coach. He needs good players to compete. How will he sell Indiana University football? How effective will he be in retaining some key existing players who have entered the portal. Will he and his staff be able to recruit at a high level? Time will tell.

I would have preferred a big, splashy hire but the reality is that big, splashy hires aren't usually interested in IU. Money talks, but not always. This may be as good as it gets.

In any event, if it's Cignetti, I wish him the best and will continue to bleed cream and crimson regardless of what happens.

Go Hoosiers!

Definitely valid concerns. NIL $$$ will help. And I actually think his head coaching experiences are much more relatable to what IUs will be, early on, than it might seem.

To me, it appears like he has an established track record of "recruiting above his head"...

He turned Elon around...I have to assume at least part of that was due to bringing in better players than the teams Elon was competing against. Obviously coaching them when they get there is hugely important too, but to turn a program around, and win as big as he did there, had to have good players respective to his competition.

JMU...was already a power versus their peers. But in the last couple years they've been making the transition from FCS to FBS. That transition changed JMU's "peers". So he has a very recent experience of fishing in new, and higher level waters with regards to recruiting and coaching...he fished very well, it seems.

The jump to IU seems to be a pretty big one...but is it really? JMU has been ranked this year for starters. He might be taking a step backwards with overall roster talent coming to IU. Just because IU is in the B10, doesn't mean we'll be competing with the teams people first think about when they say "Big Ten"... And if initially he's trying to compete with, and overtake, teams like Rutgers, Purdue, Maryland, etc... how big of a jump is it, really, in terms of the types of kids he's recruiting?

I think Cignetti's main task is establishing IU as a perennial bowl team. He needs to turn us in to Minnesota in the first few years. Then he can set his sites on programs like Iowa, Wisconsin, etc... And I don't think that level of recruiting and competition is as big of a leap from where he's at now with JMU, as it seems.

 

[OpenWheels]

I don't know who is out there possibly on the market who is a big splashy hire. Nick Saban isn't available.

Tom Herman we'd have different but equal concerns.

This "How will he sell Indiana University football? How effective will he be in retaining some key existing players who have entered the portal. Will he and his staff be able to recruit at a high level?" Is the same for any coach we hire.

If it's Cignetti, he seems to fit those as well as most that would have chance of being available. He was a recruiting coordinator in the big time. And James Madison recruited, for their level, they are a program that seems to care about football.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Definitely valid concerns. NIL $$$ will help. And I actually think his head coaching experiences are much more relatable to what IUs will be, early on, than it might seem.

To me, it appears like he has an established track record of "recruiting above his head"...

He turned Elon around...I have to assume at least part of that was due to bringing in better players than the teams Elon was competing against. Obviously coaching them when they get there is hugely important too, but to turn a program around, and win as big as he did there, had to have good players respective to his competition.

JMU...was already a power versus their peers. But in the last couple years they've been making the transition from FCS to FBS. That transition changed JMU's "peers". So he has a very recent experience of fishing in new, and higher level waters with regards to recruiting and coaching...he fished very well, it seems.

The jump to IU seems to be a pretty big one...but is it really? JMU has been ranked this year for starters. He might be taking a step backwards with overall roster talent coming to IU. Just because IU is in the B10, doesn't mean we'll be competing with the teams people first think about when they say "Big Ten"... And if initially he's trying to compete with, and overtake, teams like Rutgers, Purdue, Maryland, etc... how big of a jump is it, really, in terms of the types of kids he's recruiting?

I think Cignetti's main task is establishing IU as a perennial bowl team. He needs to turn us in to Minnesota in the first few years. Then he can set his sites on programs like Iowa, Wisconsin, etc... And I don't think that level of recruiting and competition is as big of a leap from where he's at now with JMU, as it seems.

And the fun belt has probably had 3 or 4 top 25 teams in that span as well as a number of other solid programs. Playing sec schools. ACC schools. By way of comparison much better than the MAC

 

[YOTHN]

JMU has been an FCS powerhouse for years. Everybody who coaches there does well. The last coach only lost 2 games but has not fared very well at East Carolina. What makes Cignetti different?

(my take as a long suffering fan is…maybe nothing. It’s IU football, We make the best hire we can, roll the dice, and hopefully one of these times we catch lightning in a bottle. Lord knows we’re due).

All Indiana can do is choose a candidate who has proven he can be successful. Yes, we would prefer Nick Saban but realistically, Cig's success fits the mold of what we should be looking for based on what's available for our specific situation. It's most definitely no guarantee and some may say the odds at IU make it more likely than not he will have a hard time succeeding. But he's one of the coaches we have a viable shot with that has the best chance at possibly making it happen.

 

[MMcCormick]

I think Cignetti's greatest feat was JMU's record after moving to the Sunbelt. To jump up a level and go 19-4 over two seasons is really impressive. Winning at JMU when they were in FCS is just maintaining status quo, but the jump is the eye catcher.

 

[Bowlmania]

I don't know who is out there possibly on the market who is a big splashy hire. Nick Saban isn't available.

Tom Herman we'd have different but equal concerns.

This "How will he sell Indiana University football? How effective will he be in retaining some key existing players who have entered the portal. Will he and his staff be able to recruit at a high level?" Is the same for any coach we hire.

If it's Cignetti, he seems to fit those as well as most that would have chance of being available. He was a recruiting coordinator in the big time. And James Madison recruited, for their level, they are a program that seems to care about football.

I was referring essentially to Herman. Yes, the concerns would have been different but definitely not equal. And no, the questions I've posed would not apply equally to whomever we might hire. A coach who can tell a kid, "As HC of Texas, I beat Georgia in the Peach Bowl," "My record as a HC in bowl games is 5-0," "I was 22-4 at Houston," "I put X number of players in the NFL," is going to have a leg up on a coach who says, "I built a powerhouse at James Madison." First question from the kid in response - - "Where's that?"

Look, I'm not pouring cold water on the prospect of Cignetti as our HC. I'm a bit disappointed and more than a little concerned for the reasons I've already stated, but I'll get over it. Obviously I hope he hits it out of the park.

 

[Bowlmania]

Definitely valid concerns. NIL $$$ will help. And I actually think his head coaching experiences are much more relatable to what IUs will be, early on, than it might seem.

To me, it appears like he has an established track record of "recruiting above his head"...

He turned Elon around...I have to assume at least part of that was due to bringing in better players than the teams Elon was competing against. Obviously coaching them when they get there is hugely important too, but to turn a program around, and win as big as he did there, had to have good players respective to his competition.

JMU...was already a power versus their peers. But in the last couple years they've been making the transition from FCS to FBS. That transition changed JMU's "peers". So he has a very recent experience of fishing in new, and higher level waters with regards to recruiting and coaching...he fished very well, it seems.

The jump to IU seems to be a pretty big one...but is it really? JMU has been ranked this year for starters. He might be taking a step backwards with overall roster talent coming to IU. Just because IU is in the B10, doesn't mean we'll be competing with the teams people first think about when they say "Big Ten"... And if initially he's trying to compete with, and overtake, teams like Rutgers, Purdue, Maryland, etc... how big of a jump is it, really, in terms of the types of kids he's recruiting?

I think Cignetti's main task is establishing IU as a perennial bowl team. He needs to turn us in to Minnesota in the first few years. Then he can set his sites on programs like Iowa, Wisconsin, etc... And I don't think that level of recruiting and competition is as big of a leap from where he's at now with JMU, as it seems.

Good points, but I disagree with your characterization of the jump to a power conference and the level of competition. By way of illustration, James Madison's strength of schedule this year (per Sagarin) is currently listed as 99th nationally. Ours is 22nd. He's moving from Triple A to the bigs.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Honestly, with eight home games, the elimination of the bizarre divisions, a growing NIL pot, I expect a frigging bowl season...This ain't 1984 and Bill Mallory's situation!!!

Looking at 2024 schedule

Probably wins:
FIU
Western Illinois
Charlotte

Toss ups:
Maryland
Nebraska
Northwestern
Michigan State
Purdue

Probable losses:
UCLA
Washington
Michigan
Ohio State

Those toss up games that usually fall in the loss category is where whomever we bring in is going to have a chance to make a mark early on. Purdue, Nebraska, and Maryland are home games. To get where we would like to go, our new coach is going to have to start figuring a way to regularly get 3 of those games. I don't necessarily expect that in year 1. You would hope that 3 wins would be the floor and the ceiling is probably 8. I doubt we hit the ceiling but I think if things fell right you have a shot at winning 2 or 3 of the toss ups.

 

[Sonap]

UCLA is a toss up. They are not good

 

[IUFreak]

UCLA is a toss up. They are not good

At this point, a strong wind might offer more resistance than our O line. We're aways away from knowing what next year has in store for us. Need a coach and a team first. In my opinion, of course.

 

[ThreeToMakeTwo]

The first red flag is letting him coach the bowl game. If w’re hiring someone I would like them to get on the job right away.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think Cignetti's greatest feat was JMU's record after moving to the Sunbelt. To jump up a level and go 19-4 over two seasons is really impressive. Winning at JMU when they were in FCS is just maintaining status quo, but the jump is the eye catcher.

yes. app state, louisiana, coastal carolina, and troy have all been in the top 25 to top 15 in the last handful of years. jmu went straight to the top under him

 

[76-1]

The first red flag is letting him coach the bowl game. If w’re hiring someone I would like them to get on the job right away.

Usually that would be the case but the Bowl they're projected to play in (the New Mexico Bowl) takes place on December 16th, nearly right in the middle of the Portal window, giving any interested prospects a good solid look at what he runs and how he/they coach it...

As long as they are extremely competitive and don't fall flat on their face you couldn't ask for a better Portal focused advertisement to come join us at INDIANA...

He'll have already had time to contact the INDIANA players that he wants back from the Portal and he'll have executed the early signing of the High School recruits on December 10th... //That's if we go ahead and pull the trigger Now thus giving him the precious time to accomplish all of the above.//

 

[Bowlmania]

yes. app state, louisiana, coastal carolina, and troy have all been in the top 25 to top 15 in the last handful of years. jmu went straight to the top under him

He can make that argument but the reality is that they were 37-6 under his predecessor who took them to two national title games, winning the 2016 NCAA Division 1 FCS Football Championship. They were already at the top.

Good to see you talking football again, though. I remember you were excited about Prime Time and the Buffaloes back in mid-September when they were 3-0, but didn't hear from you after that, not even after their fourth (and final) win.

 

[OpenWheels]

I was referring essentially to Herman. Yes, the concerns would have been different but definitely not equal. And no, the questions I've posed would not apply equally to whomever we might hire. A coach who can tell a kid, "As HC of Texas, I beat Georgia in the Peach Bowl," "My record as a HC in bowl games is 5-0," "I was 22-4 at Houston," "I put X number of players in the NFL," is going to have a leg up on a coach who says, "I built a powerhouse at James Madison." First question from the kid in response - - "Where's that?"

Organizing the recruiting, rating the recruits, evaluating and organizing the portal players, understanding NIL, is what counts.

I see little that says Herman is better at that. He had all the resources in the world at Texas and got fired. How could it possibly be easier to recruit than at Texas?

Maybe he's better in one aspect of 'the close' yes by saying "I beat (whoever), I sent a ton of guys to the NFL." But compared to the herculean task of everything else, 'the close' seems small potatoes to me.

I wanted Herman, but thinking Cignetti might be better. I'm on board now. And yeah, we all just want a good one, and it's speculation on who's best.

 

[mcmurtry66]

He can make that argument but the reality is that they were 37-6 under his predecessor who took them to two national title games, winning the 2016 NCAA Division 1 FCS Football Championship. They were already at the top.

Good to see you talking football again, though. I remember you were excited about Prime Time and the Buffaloes back in mid-September when they were 3-0, but didn't hear from you after that, not even after their fourth (and final) win.

prime will get them going. still a large jump from where colorado was. as for jmu i guess the salient question is how big of a jump was/is it from the colonial to the sun belt. the sun belt is arguably the best g5 conference

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

JMU would beat IU by 2 touchdowns.
Cignetti is going to be a breath of fresh air.
I would not have wanted to see IU under Allen next year.
If we lose out of the gate. so be it. I’d rather do it with a coach building for the future than with one where you keep begging for the misery to end.

 

[OpenWheels]

I watched highlights of their QB a lot yesterday. I liked him, he's good, but I didn't see a clear step up from Sorsby.

 

[IUNorth]

Good points, but I disagree with your characterization of the jump to a power conference and the level of competition. By way of illustration, James Madison's strength of schedule this year (per Sagarin) is currently listed as 99th nationally. Ours is 22nd. He's moving from Triple A to the bigs.

Take out OSU, Michigan, and PSU...we're not competing with them on any level, right now...despite playing relatively close games with them, and actually coming very close to winning in Happy Valley.

If you take those teams out, I'd guess its pretty darn comparable.

I'm sure on a macro scale, he's going to try to instill the mindset that they're competing with "everyone" on their schedule...the entire B10. But in reality, the challenge is raising the program up initially to where we aren't the doormat. As in the actual worst program in the B10. And to do that, he'll be recruiting against Purdue, Illinois, Rutgers, Northwestern, Maryland, Michigan State, Minnesota, etc... I would bet he's been recruiting against Maryland, Rutgers, and some ACC schools already for kids the last couple years... And then beating enough of those teams to not continue to finish last every year.

To me, THAT'S the actual leap. Obviously jumping from JMU...longtime FCS program that is now FBS in the Sun Belt...up to the mighty Big Ten... symbolically is an enormous leap. But practically, what his actual day to day challenges, the actual recruiting battles, the teams he needs to overtake...I don't think the leap up is nearly as big as it seems versus what he's been doing the last couple years at JMU. And now he'll have the B10 to sell, he'll have a larger NIL budget, he'll have a larger staff budget to ensure he can attract and keep quality assistants, he'll have games like USC, UCLA, Oregon, OSU, Michigan, Penn State, etc... to sell.

Its a step up, no question. But I see it as one that he might have to lift his leg up a little higher than he has before...NOT one that he has to get a ladder for or anything.

 

[PhilaHoosier]

JMU has been an FCS powerhouse for years. Everybody who coaches there does well. The last coach only lost 2 games but has not fared very well at East Carolina. What makes Cignetti different?

(my take as a long suffering fan is…maybe nothing. It’s IU football, We make the best hire we can, roll the dice, and hopefully one of these times we catch lightning in a bottle. Lord knows we’re due).

Yeah, this was the calculus in my head around Cignetti. He inherited a strong program, and his predecessor hasn't worked out at ECU. Age not ideal either (though not disqualifying). Having said that, there is a clear track record of winning at every level as a HC, with P5 experience as an assistant. Not my first choice, but not hard to talk myself into either.

 

[OpenWheels]

Its a step up, no question. But I see it as one that he might have to lift his leg up a little higher than he has before...

POTFB

 

[bang63]

The first red flag is letting him coach the bowl game. If w’re hiring someone I would like them to get on the job right away.

So you’re not a fan of loyalty?