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Pence: I "cannot in good conscience" endorse Trump

MAGA is unable to refute, dismiss or explain away the comments of literally dozens of former Trump officials - - - people who worked with him and know him well - - who say he shouldn't be anywhere near the Oval Office again. One WC poster (I don't have time to go back in the thread but I think it was old man CoH) suggested their comments are evidence of "corruption." That's laughable on so many levels, not the least of which is the fact that Trump appointed most of them.
I recently polled some legacy employees that had been put under a new Boss and new type of leadership that they had not experienced in their long terms, very chill rolls.
100% of them hated the new guy. Crazy how they all felt the same way. The new guy had to be the problem !!
 
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I recently polled some legacy employees that had been put under a new Boss and new type of leadership that they had not experienced in their long terms, very chill rolls.
100% of them hated the new guy. Crazy how they all felt the same way. The new guy had to be the problem !!
now do the same thing with people that were brought in by the new boss and later decided they couldn't stand the new boss after all.

Why not compare the turnover under trump with turnover under any other president? (only include those that were hired by said president and later resigned under the same president).
 
This kind of gives up the game no?

If guys like Bernie Moreno or Mark Robinson are so dangerous, it is rather odd that Democrats are putting their finger on the scale in Republican primaries in their favor.

Makes me think the “threat to democracy” stuff isn’t even believed by those saying it. Either that, or they really are that craven.
They are worse than craven.
 
MAGA is unable to refute, dismiss or explain away the comments of literally dozens of former Trump officials - - - people who worked with him and know him well - - who say he shouldn't be anywhere near the Oval Office again. One WC poster (I don't have time to go back in the thread but I think it was old man CoH) suggested their comments are evidence of "corruption." That's laughable on so many levels, not the least of which is the fact that Trump appointed most of them.
Only one thing matters. He’s not Biden, whose incompetence will adversely affect our country for generations.
 
Only one thing matters. He’s not Biden, whose incompetence will adversely affect our country for generations.
I will bet you are looser. The Republic will survive Biden and Trump. The Capper doesn't work, hangs out at the track and can cash a check in any bar in three states.
 
I will bet you are looser. The Republic will survive Biden and Trump. The Capper doesn't work, hangs out at the track and can cash a check in any bar in three states.
You’ll have to define what a looser is. I'm just glad you didn’t call me a loser. Anyway, I’ll go easy on you because your brother is a HOF’er…
 
Incompetence vs criminality it's a tough call
It is. Ultimately, where Biden has been incompetent is more important to & more directly impacts me than where Trump has been found or even alleged a criminal. I don’t care what he says his buildings are worth.
 
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You’ll have to define what a looser is. I'm just glad you didn’t call me a loser. Anyway, I’ll go easy on you because your brother is a HOF’er…
Thank you for that. A looser is when Trump is not elected because he alienated myself and my brother.
 
It is. Ultimately, where Biden has been incompetent is more important to & more directly impacts me than where Trump has been found or even alleged a criminal. I don’t care what he says his buildings are worth.
I don't care what his buildings are worth either. I do care that he tried to stay in power after losing the election. He should be imprisoned. Before you accuse me of being a Biden fan, I'm not. I'll take a liberal Republican or a conservative Democrat, but trump shouldn't be allowed within shooting distance of the White House.
 
This kind of gives up the game no?

If guys like Bernie Moreno or Mark Robinson are so dangerous, it is rather odd that Democrats are putting their finger on the scale in Republican primaries in their favor.

Makes me think the “threat to democracy” stuff isn’t even believed by those saying it. Either that, or they really are that craven.
They’re banking on them being exposed as far-right, bat sh!t crazy MAGA candidates and being easily beaten in the general election.
 
They’re banking on them being exposed as far-right, bat sh!t crazy MAGA candidates and being easily beaten in the general election.
And that's good for our system to promote far-right, bat shit crazy MAGA candidates, is it?
 
I don't care what his buildings are worth either. I do care that he tried to stay in power after losing the election. He should be imprisoned. Before you accuse me of being a Biden fan, I'm not. I'll take a liberal Republican or a conservative Democrat, but trump shouldn't be allowed within shooting distance of the White House.
Policy means everything to me but I do appreciate your position and understand it. I get those who believe Trump should be disqualified. I don’t get those who then build up Biden’s ridiculous presidency. But if in a vacuum trump’s actions alone disqualify him for you I get it
 
And that's good for our system to promote far-right, bat shit crazy MAGA candidates, is it?
Yes if it makes it easier to beat them.

The alternative is normal republicans winning and then doing absolutely nothing to stop their bat shit crazy maga brethren (aka enabling the nut bags by voting party line).

If maga pulls the strings and the reg republicans go along with it, then differentiating between the 2 is a distinction without a difference
 
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Policy means everything to me but I do appreciate your position and understand it. I get those who believe Trump should be disqualified. I don’t get those who then build up Biden’s ridiculous presidency. But if in a vacuum trump’s actions alone disqualify him for you I get it
I believe Trump is clearly disqualified because he's entirely unfit to be President. If Democrats persist in leaving Biden as their candidate (i.e. he doesn't step down) then he's the only qualified choice. I'm no Biden fan, but he's the only sane choice IMO.
 
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I believe Trump is clearly disqualified because he's entirely unfit to be President. If Democrats persist in leaving Biden as their candidate (i.e. he doesn't step down) then he's the only qualified choice. I'm no Biden fan, but he's the only sane choice IMO.
Reasonable minds…. Biden is an insane choice in my view. A balance of the consequences
 
I don't care what his buildings are worth either. I do care that he tried to stay in power after losing the election. He should be imprisoned. Before you accuse me of being a Biden fan, I'm not. I'll take a liberal Republican or a conservative Democrat, but trump shouldn't be allowed within shooting distance of the White House.
Yeah, the choice for me boils down to existential vs tangible. I believe there is a zero percent chance that Trump is able to stay in power, regardless of his desire to do so vs. the 100 percent chance that Biden’s policies (DEI promotion), attempts to circumvent policies (student loan debt forgiveness), & unwillingness to enforce existing policies (border) adversely affect me & weaken the country at large.
 
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I think you’re missing the point. They’re not saying they want them to get elected. They think crazy MAGA candidates are easier to beat.

It’s more about exposing - and beating - their craziness.
I believe he just thinks that is a shady strategy
 
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I think you’re missing the point. They’re not saying they want them to get elected. They think crazy MAGA candidates are easier to beat.

It’s more about exposing - and beating - their craziness.
No, I’m not missing the point at all.

Dems thought the same thing about Trump. How’d that work out?

Also, “exposing” the “craziness” by working to get them to stand for election and represent one party essentially robs half the electorate in that district of a real choice based on their values. That comes with a cost— resentment and anger. Not to mention, you’re “platforming” those dangerous ideas. But hey, as long as you “win,” it’s all worth it , right?

Some of us care about the system— the entire nation—not just our team.
 
I think you’re missing the point. They’re not saying they want them to get elected. They think crazy MAGA candidates are easier to beat.

It’s more about exposing - and beating - their craziness.
It’s Dems gaming the voting system, yet again. By any means necessary…☹️
 
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And that's good for our system to promote far-right, bat shit crazy MAGA candidates, is it?

It's an unsavory tactic, I'll grant you, but it's nothing new and has been used by both sides for years. You'll see it more in the current cycle when you have so many MAGA nutbars running. Didn't used to have quite so much crazy running as we seem to have today.
 
No, I’m not missing the point at all.

Dems thought the same thing about Trump. How’d that work out?

Also, “exposing” the “craziness” by working to get them to stand for election and represent one party essentially robs half the electorate in that district of a real choice based on their values. That comes with a cost— resentment and anger. Not to mention, you’re “platforming” those dangerous ideas. But hey, as long as you “win,” it’s all worth it , right?

Some of us care about the system— the entire nation—not just our team.
And what do you think about those Republicans that win and then enable MAGA? Must pander to the nuts to get re-elected.

And by the way, no one is forcing voters to vote for the MAGA candidates. That stupidity is completely on conservative voters.
 
And what do you think about those Republicans that win and then enable MAGA? Must pander to the nuts to get re-elected.

And by the way, no one is forcing voters to vote for the MAGA candidates. That stupidity is completely on conservative voters.
Of course, I don't like it, but moderate Democrats enable the crazy lefties in their base to get reelected as well. Our system encourages pandering to the extremes.
 
It's an unsavory tactic, I'll grant you, but it's nothing new and has been used by both sides for years. You'll see it more in the current cycle when you have so many MAGA nutbars running. Didn't used to have quite so much crazy running as we seem to have today.
Yep. And to be clear, I wasn't necessarily saying it was what should happen. Just that it is happening.

I also think you're right that it'll happen more and more as the crazy MAGA candidates increase. That should be telling to the GOP, but I'm guessing it'll take a more than a few embarrassing losses in elections a more moderate Republican would win easily.
 
No, I’m not missing the point at all.

Dems thought the same thing about Trump. How’d that work out?

Also, “exposing” the “craziness” by working to get them to stand for election and represent one party essentially robs half the electorate in that district of a real choice based on their values. That comes with a cost— resentment and anger. Not to mention, you’re “platforming” those dangerous ideas. But hey, as long as you “win,” it’s all worth it , right?

Some of us care about the system— the entire nation—not just our team.
I'm not necessarily defending the practice, but if given the choice between running against a more moderate, more electable Republican and a crazy Trump-backed MAGA candidate that a Democrat would more easily beat, I see why politicians in purple districts/states would do this.

Maybe it'll take some more electoral losses where a win was attainable with a more moderate candidate for the GOP to stop embracing Trump backed MAGA candidates.

If Democrats do think their policies and ideas are generally better for their constituents, wouldn't that point to them wanting to win elections?

It's a little like picking the guy on the other team that shoots 30% to shoot technical free throws. If the choice presented itself, why would you pick the other team's best free throw shooter?
 
It’s Dems gaming the voting system, yet again. By any means necessary…☹️
There's a relatively easy way for the GOP to nip this in the bud.

Stop pushing crazy Trump-backed, MAGA idiots. If they were sure fire winners, they'd 1) win more and 2) wouldn't give the Democrats the chance to push their candidacy so that they'll lose in a general election.
 
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I also think you're right that it'll happen more and more as the crazy MAGA candidates increase. That should be telling to the GOP, but I'm guessing it'll take a more than a few embarrassing losses in elections a more moderate Republican would win easily.
Yes. We saw what happened in 2022, when these Trump-endorsed, wacky far-right candidates (Mastriano, Lake, Walker and others) in swing states were nominated. They all lost. We'll see it again this November. Will the Republican Party finally wake up? Time will tell.
 
Yes. We saw what happened in 2022, when these Trump-endorsed, wacky far-right candidates (Mastriano, Lake, Walker and others) in swing states were nominated. They all lost. We'll see it again this November. Will the Republican Party finally wake up? Time will tell.
When will they wake up? I don’t know, but I much prefer them asleep than, um, woke.
 
I believe Trump is clearly disqualified because he's entirely unfit to be President. If Democrats persist in leaving Biden as their candidate (i.e. he doesn't step down) then he's the only qualified choice. I'm no Biden fan, but he's the only sane choice IMO.
They’re both unfit and Biden’s spending and border policies are much more dangerous to America’s future than Trump. He just proposed a 12% increase in federal spending. If Biden is re-elected the national debt will cross 50 trillion by the end of the decade. It should scare of the shit out every American. It’s insanity.
 
They’re both unfit and Biden’s spending and border policies are much more dangerous to America’s future than Trump. He just proposed a 12% increase in federal spending. If Biden is re-elected the national debt will cross 50 trillion by the end of the decade. It should scare of the shit out every American. It’s insanity.
He wants to create massive gov by way of cradle to grave benefits. And people are worried about trump. Unreal
 

Lets not act like it's a one party problem.

It is only wrong when dems do it though.

I totally get that it is a bit shady to push for more beatable candidates on the other side but the easy solution is for the other side to stop putting forth shitty candidates. And no amount of shenanigans forces people to back those candidates in the primaries.
 

Lets not act like it's a one party problem.
Is the scope/scale comparable? Is there a national effort by the Republican Party as with the Dems? Neither is acceptable, but the Dems appear to be doing it on a much larger scale. In essence it’s comparable to Russia promoting candidates it wants to see on ballots for whatever reason. Its intent is to undermine democracy by influencing what candidates the opposition has on the ballot. Dems should be ashamed of this strategy, BUT TRUMP!!!
 
It is only wrong when dems do it though.

I totally get that it is a bit shady to push for more beatable candidates on the other side but the easy solution is for the other side to stop putting forth shitty candidates. And no amount of shenanigans forces people to back those candidates in the primaries.
Dems shouldn’t get to decide who shitty candidates are for Republicans.
 
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I'm not necessarily defending the practice, but if given the choice between running against a more moderate, more electable Republican and a crazy Trump-backed MAGA candidate that a Democrat would more easily beat, I see why politicians in purple districts/states would do this.

Maybe it'll take some more electoral losses where a win was attainable with a more moderate candidate for the GOP to stop embracing Trump backed MAGA candidates.

If Democrats do think their policies and ideas are generally better for their constituents, wouldn't that point to them wanting to win elections?

It's a little like picking the guy on the other team that shoots 30% to shoot technical free throws. If the choice presented itself, why would you pick the other team's best free throw shooter?
You want to use that analogy with basketball? OK. But you've got the dynamics wrong. It would be like the person who shoots FT is determined by that team's fans, and the opposing team puts on their merch and acts like the other fans so that they can vote.

You bizarrely keep assuming I don't understand the strategy when every 14-year-old could figure it out. I get it perfectly. But you don't seem to understand the underlying damage such tactics do to the nation. Going on and on about "danger to democracy" and then going behind the scenes to help these people beat their non-dangerous adversaries in the primaries evinces a level of shadiness and dishonesty I think worthy of attack. That win-at-any-cost type of strategy, I think, is ultimately harmful to the nation and the Dem party.
 
You want to use that analogy with basketball? OK. But you've got the dynamics wrong. It would be like the person who shoots FT is determined by that team's fans, and the opposing team puts on their merch and acts like the other fans so that they can vote.

You bizarrely keep assuming I don't understand the strategy when every 14-year-old could figure it out. I get it perfectly. But you don't seem to understand the underlying damage such tactics do to the nation. Going on and on about "danger to democracy" and then going behind the scenes to help these people beat their non-dangerous adversaries in the primaries evinces a level of shadiness and dishonesty I think worthy of attack. That win-at-any-cost type of strategy, I think, is ultimately harmful to the nation and the Dem party.
I disagree that it's a danger to democracy. Or at least it's WAY below things like gerrymandering and laws making it harder to vote.

It's not like the Democrats are inventing these absurd, wacky candidates. And they're not going behind the scenes. The fact that we're discussing this on a message board points to the fact that it's very public and out in the open. If Republicans are mad about it, put forth better candidates and get behind them. Democrats don't have a bottomless war-chest; if the GOP had more serious, sensible candidates that their voters would take more seriously, this tactic wouldn't work.
 
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Is the scope/scale comparable? Is there a national effort by the Republican Party as with the Dems? Neither is acceptable, but the Dems appear to be doing it on a much larger scale. In essence it’s comparable to Russia promoting candidates it wants to see on ballots for whatever reason. Its intent is to undermine democracy by influencing what candidates the opposition has on the ballot. Dems should be ashamed of this strategy, BUT TRUMP!!!
The scope very well may be higher. MAGA has given the Democrats so many more targets.
 
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I disagree that it's a danger to democracy. Or at least it's WAY below things like gerrymandering and laws making it harder to vote.

It's not like the Democrats are inventing these absurd, wacky candidates. And they're not going behind the scenes. The fact that we're discussing this on a message board points to the fact that it's very public and out in the open. If Republicans are mad about it, put forth better candidates and get behind them. Democrats don't have a bottomless war-chest; if the GOP had more serious, sensible candidates that their voters would take more seriously, this tactic wouldn't work.
Huh? More candidates? You need one (and only one) candidate to run in a primary who isn't whacko. If he runs against a whacko, and leads him 52/47 in the actual party primary, but the other party comes in and pushes the whacko over the finish line, how is that a party organizational problem? That doesn't even make sense.

I'm happy you agree that these MAGA types and Trump aren't a "danger to democracy."
 
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