Parent involvement

[Bloom.]

I’ve worked in education for a long time. I understand the process. I assumed your issue was public schools being stressed, from lack of funding, as parents send their kids choose other schools. That’s not the issue because you’re ok with it as long as it’s other public schools.

Of course I am, because if you change communities, someone else is moving into your old home and just as likely to send their kid to public school. If it happens they send their kids to private schools, that's fine too. Guerin Catholic served a need. University served a need. Hamilton County doesn't need an in person charter.

I don't like charter schools which are attached to religious agendas. So the Heritage Foundation, which funds a lot of these parent groups, coming in with Hillsdale College to push for charter schools in the suburbs, I'm against. They should be private schools and shouldn't be able to easily syphon off funding from the in district public school.

 

[snarlcakes]

Of course I am, because if you change communities, someone else is moving into your old home and just as likely to send their kid to public school.

That isn’t how it always works now. People don’t have to move to attend another school.

I don't like charter schools which are attached to religious agendas.

Thank you for finally answering the question. Life isn’t always about you. Some people like religious schools and should be able to choose them. Some people like public schools and should be able to choose them.

 

[Bloom.]

That isn’t how it always works now. People don’t have to move to attend another school.

They have to move if they want to attend a school with closed enrollment, aside from the caveats of your parent works at the school or you lie about where you live.

Thank you for finally answering the question. Life isn’t always about you. Some people like religious schools and should be able to choose them. Some people like public schools and should be able to choose them.

This isn't about me. LOL

This is a community issue.

I like how you took my comment out of context. Let me help you out:

Of course I am, because if you change communities, someone else is moving into your old home and just as likely to send their kid to public school. If it happens they send their kids to private schools, that's fine too. Guerin Catholic served a need. University served a need. Hamilton County doesn't need an in person charter.

I'm going to fight against religious groups trying to operate as charters in Hamilton County, especially Carmel. So far so good. They've already tried to take over a Carmel school building and failed. They tried the same thing in Pike Township and failed.

 

[NPT]

Oh I do? Of course it exists. In very isolated incidents. The right takes one example and acts like it’s everywhere, teachers are groomers, pedophiles, preaching white guilt, etc.

So you know that it's isolated incidents huh? Amazing how you know all the facts.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

That isn’t how it always works now. People don’t have to move to attend another school.

Thank you for finally answering the question. Life isn’t always about you. Some people like religious schools and should be able to choose them. Some people like public schools and should be able to choose them.

But if they are taking public funds then they should be considered a public school and subject to every rule a public school is subject to follow.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

So you know that it's isolated incidents huh? Amazing how you know all the facts.

Couldn't you say that about both sides?

 

[Bloom.]

So you know that it's isolated incidents huh? Amazing how you know all the facts.

We can play this 'know all' game in various directions.

I'd recommend the people accusing teachers of indoctrinating and 'grooming' students to produce some data that suggests it isn't isolated events. All of the times I've asked someone for an example over the last two years (not so much here), only @IUCrazy2 was able to give an example, but it was a teacher he felt just needed to be reined in. However, he also argued there are more pride flags in classes than US flags, which is just isn't true.

Other examples given from local groups are some random, cherry picked instance from another state, and it's usually something so bad, we'd all agree those teachers should lose their job.

(Side note, sincere kudos to IUCrazy for a local and reasonable reference of his child's middle school teacher.)

Accepting that Billy is gay or supporting John David becoming Jade shouldn't be something that a) offends anyone or b) causes a teacher to lose their job.

 

[NPT]

We can play this 'know all' game in various directions.

I'd recommend the people accusing teachers of indoctrinating and 'grooming' students to produce some data that suggests it isn't isolated events. All of the times I've asked someone for an example over the last two years (not so much here), only @IUCrazy2 was able to give an example, but it was a teacher he felt just needed to be reined in. However, he also argued there are more pride flags in classes than US flags, which is just isn't true.

Other examples given from local groups are some random, cherry picked instance from another state, and it's usually something so bad, we'd all agree those teachers should lose their job.

(Side note, sincere kudos to IUCrazy for a local and reasonable reference of his child's middle school teacher.)

Accepting that Billy is gay or supporting John David becoming Jade shouldn't be something that a) offends anyone or b) causes a teacher to lose their job.

I have never ever said it's not just an isolated incident because I don't know yet there's lots on here will say it is and they don't know either. I, for one. hope it is an isolated incident. It would take a lot of work to determine if it's just an isolated incident.

 

[DANC]

How many teachers do you think there are in the country? I’ll tell you….over 4 million. You’ve read about a handful. Less than 100, I’d bet. Do you know what a minuscule percentage that is of over 4 million? Calm down.

It's the schools, not individual teachers, that are the problem. Schools and the school boards.

And they are the same issues all over the country. You're blind if you don't see it.

 

[DANC]

It's so stupid

Marginalized, cis gendered whites taking back the rainbow!!!!

God, country, rainbows

lol "cis" Oh yeah, you're a moderate.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

I have never ever said it's not just an isolated incident because I don't know yet there's lots on here will say it is and they don't know either. I, for one. hope it is an isolated incident. It would take a lot of work to determine if it's just an isolated incident.

I think it is more due to you being quick to say zeke was jumping to conclusions but not the other side. It seems like the people tossing accusations should have the burden of proof.

 

[Bloom.]

I have never ever said it's not just an isolated incident because I don't know yet there's lots on here will say it is and they don't know either.

I didn't say you did.

I, for one. hope it is an isolated incident. It would take a lot of work to determine if it's just an isolated incident.

But we're here on a discussion forum speaking on broad topics from local perspectives, and at least in my case, I gave examples of what I'm referring to. Now, most of those examples were discussions had on another platform, but I'd still challenge anyone to find that it's more than isolated events.

 

[Bloom.]

lol "cis" Oh yeah, you're a moderate.

You're not a cis gendered male? Who knew!

 

[DANC]

You're not a cis gendered male? Who knew!

I don't know, am I? I don't know what 'cis' is, other than it's some term the woke like to use.

 

[Bloom.]

I don't know, am I? I don't know what 'cis' is, other than it's some term the woke like to use.

Better find out before Gilead comes knocking.

 

[DANC]

Better find out before Gilead comes knocking.

Who's that?

 

[hookyIU1990]

But if they are taking public funds then they should be considered a public school and subject to every rule a public school is subject to follow.

Since the conversation has mostly centered around Indiana, I'll mention it again. Charter schools are public schools in Indiana.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Since the conversation has mostly centered around Indiana, I'll mention it again. Charter schools are public schools in Indiana.

Yet there are exceptions apparently to what state laws they have to follow (site doesn't specify what those exceptions are though - https://www.in.gov/icsb/families-and-students/charter-school-faqs/)

Not only that, but having charter schools still reduces funds to the public school system, which are already struggling. HSE schools are already talking about cutting back on the arts if the referendum doesn't get passed. Can't imagine what else would get cut if we split students with a charter school.

 

[zeke4ahs]

So you know that it's isolated incidents huh? Amazing how you know all the facts.

i Am pretty amazing, glad you agree.

 

[zeke4ahs]

It's the schools, not individual teachers, that are the problem. Schools and the school boards.

And they are the same issues all over the country. You're blind if you don't see it.

Because I know you are right in the midst and know what’s going on in education these days. Because you went to a school 50 or so years ago, right?

 

[hookyIU1990]

et there are exceptions apparently to what state laws they have to follow (site doesn't specify what those exceptions are though - https://www.in.gov/icsb/families-and-students/charter-school-faqs/)

Here's the IC pertaining to Charters https://iga.in.gov/laws/2020/ic/titles/20#20-24

Here's the specific IC for the laws they don't have to follow.

IC 20-24-8-4Statutes, rules, and regulations not applicable

Sec. 4. Except as specifically provided in this article and the statutes listed in section 5 of this chapter, the following do not apply to a charter school:

(1) An Indiana statute applicable to a governing body or school corporation.

(2) A rule or guideline adopted by the state board.

(3) A rule or guideline adopted by the state board concerning teachers, except for those rules that assist a teacher in gaining or renewing a standard or advanced license.

(4) A local regulation or policy adopted by a school corporation unless specifically incorporated in the charter.

Here's all the IC they do have to follow per the section above that I pasted.

IC 20-24-8-5Applicable statutes, rules, and guidelines

Sec. 5. The following statutes and rules and guidelines adopted under the following statutes apply to a charter school:

(1) IC 5-11-1-9 (required audits by the state board of accounts).

(2) IC 20-39-1-1 (unified accounting system).

(3) IC 20-35 (special education).

(4) IC 20-26-5-10 (criminal history).

(5) IC 20-26-5-6 (subject to laws requiring regulation by state agencies).

(6) IC 20-28-10-12 (nondiscrimination for teacher marital status).

(7) IC 20-28-10-14 (teacher freedom of association).

(8) IC 20-28-10-17 (school counselor immunity).

(9) For conversion charter schools only if the conversion charter school elects to collectively bargain under IC 20-24-6-3(b), IC 20-28-6, IC 20-28-7.5, IC 20-28-8, IC 20-28-9, and IC 20-28-10.

(10) IC 20-33-2 (compulsory school attendance).

(11) IC 20-33-8-19, IC 20-33-8-21, and IC 20-33-8-22 (student due process and judicial review).

(12) IC 20-33-8-16 (firearms and deadly weapons).

(13) IC 20-34-3 (health and safety measures).

(14) IC 20-33-9 (reporting of student violations of law).

(15) IC 20-30-3-2 and IC 20-30-3-4 (patriotic commemorative observances).

(16) IC 20-31-3, IC 20-32-4, IC 20-32-5 (for a school year ending before July 1, 2018), IC 20-32-5.1 (for a school year beginning after June 30, 2018), IC 20-32-8, and IC 20-32-8.5, as provided in IC 20-32-8.5-2(b) (academic standards, accreditation, assessment, and remediation).

(17) IC 20-33-7 (parental access to education records).

(18) IC 20-31 (accountability for school performance and improvement).

(19) IC 20-30-5-19 (personal financial responsibility instruction).

(20) IC 20-26-5-37.3, before its expiration (career and technical education reporting).

(21) IC 22-2-18, before its expiration on June 30, 2021 (limitations on employment of minors).

[Pre-2005 Elementary and Secondary Education Recodification Citation: 20-5.5-8-5.]

Not only that, but having charter schools still reduces funds to the public school system, which are already struggling. HSE schools are already talking about cutting back on the arts if the referendum doesn't get passed. Can't imagine what else would get cut if we split students with a charter school.

It's still a public school. You're not taking funding away from the public school system since the charter is a public school. The funding follows the student and isn't earmarked to a particular public school. The student is just going to a different public school now. The transfer works the other way too. If a student transfers from a charter to a non-charter public school, the money follows the student to the non-charter public school.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Here's the IC pertaining to Charters https://iga.in.gov/laws/2020/ic/titles/20#20-24

Here's the specific IC for the laws they don't have to follow.

IC 20-24-8-4Statutes, rules, and regulations not applicable

Sec. 4. Except as specifically provided in this article and the statutes listed in section 5 of this chapter, the following do not apply to a charter school:

(1) An Indiana statute applicable to a governing body or school corporation.

(2) A rule or guideline adopted by the state board.

(3) A rule or guideline adopted by the state board concerning teachers, except for those rules that assist a teacher in gaining or renewing a standard or advanced license.

(4) A local regulation or policy adopted by a school corporation unless specifically incorporated in the charter.

Here's all the IC they do have to follow per the section above that I pasted.

IC 20-24-8-5Applicable statutes, rules, and guidelines

Sec. 5. The following statutes and rules and guidelines adopted under the following statutes apply to a charter school:

(1) IC 5-11-1-9 (required audits by the state board of accounts).

(2) IC 20-39-1-1 (unified accounting system).

(3) IC 20-35 (special education).

(4) IC 20-26-5-10 (criminal history).

(5) IC 20-26-5-6 (subject to laws requiring regulation by state agencies).

(6) IC 20-28-10-12 (nondiscrimination for teacher marital status).

(7) IC 20-28-10-14 (teacher freedom of association).

(8) IC 20-28-10-17 (school counselor immunity).

(9) For conversion charter schools only if the conversion charter school elects to collectively bargain under IC 20-24-6-3(b), IC 20-28-6, IC 20-28-7.5, IC 20-28-8, IC 20-28-9, and IC 20-28-10.

(10) IC 20-33-2 (compulsory school attendance).

(11) IC 20-33-8-19, IC 20-33-8-21, and IC 20-33-8-22 (student due process and judicial review).

(12) IC 20-33-8-16 (firearms and deadly weapons).

(13) IC 20-34-3 (health and safety measures).

(14) IC 20-33-9 (reporting of student violations of law).

(15) IC 20-30-3-2 and IC 20-30-3-4 (patriotic commemorative observances).

(16) IC 20-31-3, IC 20-32-4, IC 20-32-5 (for a school year ending before July 1, 2018), IC 20-32-5.1 (for a school year beginning after June 30, 2018), IC 20-32-8, and IC 20-32-8.5, as provided in IC 20-32-8.5-2(b) (academic standards, accreditation, assessment, and remediation).

(17) IC 20-33-7 (parental access to education records).

(18) IC 20-31 (accountability for school performance and improvement).

(19) IC 20-30-5-19 (personal financial responsibility instruction).

(20) IC 20-26-5-37.3, before its expiration (career and technical education reporting).

(21) IC 22-2-18, before its expiration on June 30, 2021 (limitations on employment of minors).

[Pre-2005 Elementary and Secondary Education Recodification Citation: 20-5.5-8-5.]


It's still a public school. You're not taking funding away from the public school system since the charter is a public school. The funding follows the student and isn't earmarked to a particular public school. The student is just going to a different public school now. The transfer works the other way too. If a student transfers from a charter to a non-charter public school, the money follows the student to the non-charter public school.

You're splitting funds between 2 schools regardless of it being a public school assuming it is in a location that already has a public school system (which would be most places). Duplicating the regular classes (english, math, etc) and having to cut arts because of no funds or relying even more on fundraisers isn't exactly preferrable.

Sure, choice sounds all well and good until you realize the funding aspect of it.

 

[hookyIU1990]

You're splitting funds between 2 schools regardless of it being a public school if in a location that already has a public school system (which most places do already have). Duplicating the regular classes (english, math, etc) and having to cut arts because of no funds or relying even more on fundraisers.

Sure, choice sounds all well and good until you realize the funding aspect of it.

Can you explain to me how HSE cutting arts unless they get a referendum passed is related to charters, since as stated elsewhere in the thread, there are no charter schools in Hamilton county? Are a bunch of HSE kids going to Marion county to attend a charter school?

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Can you explain to me how HSE cutting arts unless they get a referendum passed is related to charters, since as stated elsewhere in the thread, there are no charter schools in Hamilton county? Are a bunch of HSE kids going to Marion county to attend a charter school?

it was just saying they are low on funds. splitting funds with a charter school would make it worse.

 

[hookyIU1990]

it was just saying they are low on funds. splitting funds with a charter school would make it worse.

Or it might lead to a better educational opportunity for the students in a school system that can't get their act together. Charter schools can be arts focused also. Maybe there's a need for an arts focused charter to serve Hamilton county in general, and Fishers in particular.

Premier Arts Academy

Premier Arts Theater Academy is located in Elkhart, IN.

www.premierartsacademy.org

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Or it might lead to a better educational opportunity for the students in a school system that can't get their act together. Charter schools can be arts focused also.

Premier Arts Academy

Premier Arts Theater Academy is located in Elkhart, IN.

www.premierartsacademy.org

or would just be two underfunded school systems begging for fundraisers to make up the difference. That's a lot more realistic.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

View embedded media

could we please have a little less context on that exchange.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

View embedded media

Jerry Jerry Jerry

That's more hollywood than Lebron's flops.

 

[hookyIU1990]

or would just be two underfunded school systems begging for fundraisers to make up the difference. That's a lot more realistic.

Or maybe HSE needs to get their act together. It's one of the fastest growing areas in the state. The referendum renewal actually lowers the tax rate, which it can do and still provide the 26M/yr of the old referendum because of the area's tax base growth.

Regardless, their issues aren't due to Charters.

 

[Bloom.]

Since the conversation has mostly centered around Indiana, I'll mention it again. Charter schools are public schools in Indiana.

I understand that, but they're businesses benefitting entirely from tax dollars. They shut down just like businesses too. Luckily a few which have been poorly managed have found secondary owners to keep them afloat.

They need families, hence these groups, funded by the same organization(s), creating controversies -- like porn in schools -- that don't exist.

 

[Bloom.]

Or maybe HSE needs to get their act together. It's one of the fastest growing areas in the state. The referendum renewal actually lowers the tax rate, which it can do and still provide the 26M/yr of the old referendum because of the area's tax base growth.

Regardless, their issues aren't due to Charters.

Their issues aren't directly due to charters, but the charters need those families to get fed up with the public school of residence.

The current board isn't in favor of renewing the referendum. Three of those board members are Moms For Liberty members, funded by the Heritage Foundation.

Our local Hoes for Hitler group is putting out information that Carmel schools is trying to raise property taxes again for their referendum, when it's simply renewing the one that's been in place for nearly 20 years.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Their issues aren't directly due to charters, but the charters need those families to get fed up with the public school of residence.

The current board isn't in favor of renewing the referendum. Three of those board members are Moms For Liberty members, funded by the Heritage Foundation.

Our local Hoes for Hitler group is putting out information that Carmel schools is trying to raise property taxes again for their referendum, when it's simply renewing the one that's been in place for nearly 20 years.

Charter schools are some kind boogeyman for you and a couple of others.

What do charters have to do with the local MfL group? Nothing.

 

[mattndallas]

Charter schools are some kind boogeyman for you and a couple of others.

What do charters have to do with the local MfL group? Nothing.

The charters in Bloomington were established because public school wasn't "safe spaced" enough...if you can imagine that.

Project School marches to the courthouse with rainbow shit on to promote transsexuals, and Harmony...well they don't do much of anything...including showering or learning to read. 😄

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

So you know that it's isolated incidents huh? Amazing how you know all the facts.

“Well I’ve got these 4 million friends that I talk to all the time”.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Or maybe HSE needs to get their act together. It's one of the fastest growing areas in the state. The referendum renewal actually lowers the tax rate, which it can do and still provide the 26M/yr of the old referendum because of the area's tax base growth.

Regardless, their issues aren't due to Charters.

I wondered how the referendum was going to lower tax rate. That makes sense.

 

[Bloom.]

Charter schools are some kind boogeyman for you and a couple of others.

What do charters have to do with the local MfL group? Nothing.

OK...you're not paying attention then. It's OK.

They've held multiple charter school meetings, requiring tickets (free) to attend, and they don't disclose the location until they OK the ticket. I've been to one.

 

[zeke4ahs]

“Well I’ve got these 4 million friends that I talk to all the time”.

I’m sorry you’re lonely, Joe.

 

[hookyIU1990]

OK...you're not paying attention then. It's OK.

They've held multiple charter school meetings, requiring tickets (free) to attend, and they don't disclose the location until they OK the ticket. I've been to one.

Keep tilting at windmills.

I'm not going to give it another thought.

 

[DANC]

Because I know you are right in the midst and know what’s going on in education these days. Because you went to a school 50 or so years ago, right?

I can read a newspaper. You should try it sometime - there's a real world outside your little classroom.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I can read a newspaper. You should try it sometime - there's a real world outside your little classroom.

Newspapers? So they still print those? Lol. Thats good… .you think you know more about what’s happening in education because you read an article or two. But wait….I thought we don’t trust the MSM?