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Parent involvement

That’s only a problem if you think lack of funds is the biggest problem of public education.
It creates a downward cycle. Not enough to properly pay teachers, so you don't get the better teachers or get to retain teachers in the profession. Quality of education goes down, so families look for other choices. Public school loses money, rinse, repeat.

The best way to have quality teaching candidates is for them to be paid competitively.

School choice, implemented in most states by white, conservatives were an attack on large urban public schools. As charter schools filled the void, those pushing school choice have figured out they can make money on it.
 
You need to be paying attention when it comes to what's going on to attack public schools. Parent groups complaining there isn't transparency. There is. Parent groups complaining teachers are trying to sexualize their curriculum. Of course, when pressed, it's always some random, isolated example that has zero to do with Indiana, let alone the district they live in.

It's been orchestrated and paid for. Meanwhile, Heritage Foundation is trying to open charter schools in suburbs and struggling to do so. They need approval and families. In the meantime, the groups they're helping fund are trying to create upheaval.
That is an interesting take. Wrong, but interesting.

I can tell you what the issue was at HSE, it was falling academic achievement coupled with an over emphasis on DEI (yes, the school district was still high compared to the rest of the state but it had fallen in relation to basically all of its peer districts in this area....and IPS isn't a peer district).

"It isn't the curriculum..." Yes, ys it was in some instances. My then 7th grader had BLM and white fragility focused units to start the school year. The coursework was online. I shared one of the articles they were having to read at that time. The teacher had the coursework online posted so all of the parents could get a look. We also had a window into what was going on in the classrooms during COVID because we could hear the conversations.

I chose (and will continue to do so) not to post the teacher's syllabus and links because I don't want her info out there randomly. I did not want her fired, I want her reined in. You don't know everything that is going on everywhere.

As to the idea that parents have no input, THAT would be the new idea. Those conservative parents have EVERY right to have input into curriculum as anyone else does. That is how it has always been. When you have more rainbow flags displayed in the school than American flags, you are begging for people to look at priorities. Some schools were found to be lacking.
 
That is an interesting take. Wrong, but interesting.

I can tell you what the issue was at HSE, it was falling academic achievement coupled with an over emphasis on DEI (yes, the school district was still high compared to the rest of the state but it had fallen in relation to basically all of its peer districts in this area....and IPS isn't a peer district).

"It isn't the curriculum..." Yes, ys it was in some instances. My then 7th grader had BLM and white fragility focused units to start the school year. The coursework was online. I shared one of the articles they were having to read at that time. The teacher had the coursework online posted so all of the parents could get a look. We also had a window into what was going on in the classrooms during COVID because we could hear the conversations.

I chose (and will continue to do so) not to post the teacher's syllabus and links because I don't want her info out there randomly. I did not want her fired, I want her reined in. You don't know everything that is going on everywhere.

As to the idea that parents have no input, THAT would be the new idea. Those conservative parents have EVERY right to have input into curriculum as anyone else does. That is how it has always been. When you have more rainbow flags displayed in the school than American flags, you are begging for people to look at priorities. Some schools were found to be lacking.
There is no place that has more rainbow flags than American flags. Stop your hyperbole. You have a tendency to take an isolated case or two and make it look like a district wide problem. HSE got a taste of power and now they are becoming a national laughingstock. And the new Moms of Liberty school board are the ones being reined in. And you don’t know what’s going on everyplace either. Bloom’s post is happening in many townships. He’s not wrong.
 
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That is an interesting take. Wrong, but interesting.

I can tell you what the issue was at HSE, it was falling academic achievement coupled with an over emphasis on DEI (yes, the school district was still high compared to the rest of the state but it had fallen in relation to basically all of its peer districts in this area....and IPS isn't a peer district).

"It isn't the curriculum..." Yes, ys it was in some instances. My then 7th grader had BLM and white fragility focused units to start the school year. The coursework was online. I shared one of the articles they were having to read at that time. The teacher had the coursework online posted so all of the parents could get a look. We also had a window into what was going on in the classrooms during COVID because we could hear the conversations.

I chose (and will continue to do so) not to post the teacher's syllabus and links because I don't want her info out there randomly. I did not want her fired, I want her reined in. You don't know everything that is going on everywhere.

As to the idea that parents have no input, THAT would be the new idea. Those conservative parents have EVERY right to have input into curriculum as anyone else does. That is how it has always been. When you have more rainbow flags displayed in the school than American flags, you are begging for people to look at priorities. Some schools were found to be lacking.

No one said parents shouldn't have input. What they are saying is they shouldn't get to dictate because they aren't the only parents with kids in the class.

There are just as many parents that disagree with the ones trying to whitewash history or ignore diversity issues.
 
That is an interesting take. Wrong, but interesting.

I can tell you what the issue was at HSE, it was falling academic achievement coupled with an over emphasis on DEI (yes, the school district was still high compared to the rest of the state but it had fallen in relation to basically all of its peer districts in this area....and IPS isn't a peer district).

"It isn't the curriculum..." Yes, ys it was in some instances. My then 7th grader had BLM and white fragility focused units to start the school year. The coursework was online. I shared one of the articles they were having to read at that time. The teacher had the coursework online posted so all of the parents could get a look. We also had a window into what was going on in the classrooms during COVID because we could hear the conversations.
At least you're willing to give a local example. Doesn't mean I would agree with your view of it.

At least we know your child's teachers are transparent.

I chose (and will continue to do so) not to post the teacher's syllabus and links because I don't want her info out there randomly. I did not want her fired, I want her reined in.
Makes sense. I wasn't asking for anyone to be outed.

You don't know everything that is going on everywhere.
Never said I did, but it seems clear HSE's situation is a mess. I'm certainly glad Carmel isn't going through it.

As to the idea that parents have no input, THAT would be the new idea. Those conservative parents have EVERY right to have input into curriculum as anyone else does. That is how it has always been.
Parents have a right to what their child is taught, not what every child is taught. The state sets the general curriculum. Schools systems set it to a more granular level. You get to vote for those who make those decisions. You don't have the right to micromanage it.
When you have more rainbow flags displayed in the school than American flags, you are begging for people to look at priorities. Some schools were found to be lacking.
I doubt there are more rainbow flags displayed in any school that isn't the result of some school project. LOL

As far as I know, there are US flags in every classroom in Carmel. Maybe some isolated teacher has removed their, but I doubt it and doubt that's much different in HSE schools.
 
It creates a downward cycle. Not enough to properly pay teachers, so you don't get the better teachers or get to retain teachers in the profession. Quality of education goes down, so families look for other choices. Public school loses money, rinse, repeat.

The best way to have quality teaching candidates is for them to be paid competitively.

School choice, implemented in most states by white, conservatives were an attack on large urban public schools. As charter schools filled the void, those pushing school choice have figured out they can make money on it.
The allocation of those funds is a big problem, but lack of funds is also. Teachers should not be using their own funds, or spending time fundraising in order to supply their classrooms. All too many of the charter schools know nothing about education and are just in the field to make money.
I agree with the allocation problems. The fact is that per-pupil spending and education staffing significantly outpaces both student enrollment and student achievement. Charters address that exact problem with better allocation and more efficient methods. Charters produce better results. Not only do we need more charter schools, we should have more charter districts,

Yeah, white Conservatives advocate education reform, more autonomy and more charters. So what? All liberals can do is throw more funding at education as is hoping things will change. The education we provide to poor and inner city marginalized kids is an absolute disgrace. We make more marginalized kids with our system. I blame liberal democrats for that. We are wasting not only gobs of money on public education, we are wasting individual lives and their unrealized contributions to society.
 
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I agree with the allocation problems. The fact is that per-pupil spending and education staffing significantly outpaces both student enrollment and student achievement.

Charters address that exact problem with better allocation and more efficient methods. Charters produce better results. Not only do we need more charter schools, we should have more charter districts,
Not in this state, they haven't.

Yeah, white Conservatives advocate education reform, more autonomy and more charters. So what?
That's called homeschooling or sending your kids to private schools that more match your educational interest.

All liberals can do is throw more funding at education as is hoping things will change. The education we provide to poor and inner city marginalized kids is an absolute disgrace.
Yes, because for decades now, they've drained money out of it. I've long been against large urban districts, pushing more each school or pairs of schools to be their own autonomous voice academically, but that's not how it went long before I arrived.

Charters in urban settings filled academic voids, mostly created by funding issues leading to school closings. School choice was a legal form of segregation, at least in Indiana, allowing those who wanted to pull their kids out of public schools and put them in private schools.

Now that the suburbs are becoming more diverse, we have charters trying to serve a need that isn't there. They need to scare families into wanting out of public schools.


We make more marginalized kids with our system. I blame liberal democrats for that. We are wasting not only gobs of money on public education, we are wasting individual lives and their unrealized contributions to society.
When was the last time you were in a school?
 
You need to be paying attention when it comes to what's going on to attack public schools. Parent groups complaining there isn't transparency. There is. Parent groups complaining teachers are trying to sexualize their curriculum. Of course, when pressed, it's always some random, isolated example that has zero to do with Indiana, let alone the district they live in.

It's been orchestrated and paid for. Meanwhile, Heritage Foundation is trying to open charter schools in suburbs and struggling to do so. They need approval and families. In the meantime, the groups they're helping fund are trying to create upheaval.
IMHO, charters can have benefits but they can also have problems...just like every other institution.

The idea of school competition and managing schools like a business sounds all well and good, but that competition needs to be managed carefully because the stakes are different. This isn't the same as some business making electric toothbrushes or kitchen utensils. There are good charter schools and shit charter schools just like there are good businesses and bad businesses and financial competition is an imperfect tool for spurring improvement, so we need to make sure we're judicious about how we plot changes.
 
IMHO, charters can have benefits but they can also have problems...just like every other institution.

The idea of school competition and managing schools like a business sounds all well and good, but that competition needs to be managed carefully because the stakes are different. This isn't the same as some business making electric toothbrushes or kitchen utensils. There are good charter schools and shit charter schools just like there are good businesses and bad businesses and financial competition is an imperfect tool for spurring improvement, so we need to make sure we're judicious about how we plot changes.
To me it's pretty simple. Charters only carry value where there is an academic void.

Right now charters in the suburbs is just a response to the fake outrage view that public schools are inherently liberal.
 
You have a tendency to take an isolated case or two and make it look like a district wide problem.
As opposed to you who acts as though it doesn't exist and everything is perfect.
 
Anyone contending lack of funding for public schools is the source of poor student performance is a moron. Full stop. Chicago Public School’s spend $40K per student per year. Equivalent to that of the affluent Northern Chicago suburbs that are home to some of the best public schools in the country.

People that advocate locking kids in to a failing public school are evil. Full stop. Likely someone who lives in Carmel suburb who has not the faintest clue what a failing public school looks like.

The truth is. Nothing can be done to save Urban public schools. It’s a cultural problem. The best course of action is to offer the people in those neighborhoods with a desire, a pathway out via school choice.

I mean just look at these god damn clowns.


Not to be taken seriously.
 
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Anyone contending lack of funding for public schools is the source of poor student performance is a moron. Full stop. Chicago Public School’s spend $40K per student per year. Equivalent to that of the affluent Northern Chicago suburbs that are home to some of the best public schools in the country.

People that advocate locking kids in to a failing public school are evil. Full stop. Likely someone who lives in Carmel suburb who has not the faintest clue what a failing public school looks like.

The truth is. Nothing can be done to save Urban public schools. It’s a cultural problem. The best course of action is to offer the people in those neighborhoods with a desire, a pathway out via school choice.

I mean just look at these god damn clowns.


Not to be taken seriously.
Or, you could've read what I wrote.

Yes, because for decades now, they've drained money out of it. I've long been against large urban districts, pushing more each school or pairs of schools to be their own autonomous voice academically, but that's not how it went long before I arrived.
 
There is no place that has more rainbow flags than American flags. Stop your hyperbole. You have a tendency to take an isolated case or two and make it look like a district wide problem. HSE got a taste of power and now they are becoming a national laughingstock. And the new Moms of Liberty school board are the ones being reined in. And you don’t know what’s going on everyplace either. Bloom’s post is happening in many townships. He’s not wrong.
Reined in? Kind of seems like things are going the way I voted in the district I am in.

1. The incompetent superintendent stepped down (only one local person dug into that and from what I heard she needed that agreement to save her ass from the way she was treating teachers in the district.) That is the only thing that was "embarassing" (only because local media are morons and the school district is bound by the legal agreement not to let on why she was fired) and you can ask @Bulk VanderHuge about how awesome she was to begin with. She was a bad hire. Shit-canning her will be a net positive for the district.

2. They removed political sloganeering from the schools. Bye Trump flags, bye pride flags, bye BLM, etc. School isn't the place.

3. They dropped the micro-aggression policy and brought the student handbook more in line with near peers w.r.t. things like that and dress code.

You are probably thinking of the library where they allowed themselves to get outmaneuvered by an activist running the library who did the whole malicious compliance thing and moved The Fault in our Stars when books like Gender Queer and This Book is Gay were the ones intended to be moved to the more appropriate adult section (not banned). You know, the type of books where whenever I post the actual content for you guys suddenly disappear? The ones with drawings of people sucking each other off or the ones that tell teens they should go to Grindr for hook ups? The ones where you can't print the content of them in newspapers so whenever this conversation gets brought up you all can pretend like people are crazy. Those kind of books.

If you want to bring politics into the classroom you have to ensure there is a dispassionate discussion of both sides. I am not sending my kids to school to be programmed by people like you and Bloom to think like you and I would offer you all the same dispensation. We need to agree on what a teachers job is and pushing the social stuff beyond what is required for a civil society isn't that.
 
If something isn't a district wide problem, it certainly isn't a national problem.
I would guess that 90% of the people on here have no idea what is going on in their school system UNLESS they have kids attending that school system. And I don't consider some teacher telling me what's going on as a reliable source of information because people have agendas and they say things to support that agenda. I would want more firsthand knowledge.
 
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As opposed to you who acts as though it doesn't exist and everything is perfect.
Oh I do? Of course it exists. In very isolated incidents. The right takes one example and acts like it’s everywhere, teachers are groomers, pedophiles, preaching white guilt, etc.
 
I would guess that 90% of the people on here have no idea what is going on in their school system UNLESS they have kids attending that school system. And I don't consider some teacher telling me what's going on as a reliable source of information because people have agendas and they say things to support that agenda. I would want more firsthand knowledge.
And you think some of the parents don’t have an agenda? I’d say just as many or more parents do than teachers. The large majority of teachers are just trying to do what is best for kids and teach the content areas. Parents such as Moms for Liberty and Purple for Parents have a very stated agenda and objectives.
 
I would guess that 90% of the people on here have no idea what is going on in their school system UNLESS they have kids attending that school system. And I don't consider some teacher telling me what's going on as a reliable source of information because people have agendas and they say things to support that agenda. I would want more firsthand knowledge.
Then volunteer to be part of the school. Go through the background check so you can be in the school and don't just show up when something happens you don't like.

Teachers put their lesson plans online. If your district doesn't operate in such a way, move to one that does or compel your school board to enact it. Those teachers who aren't as fluent in technology often find it intrusive to their process, but those who have embraced it find it much easier to communicate and educate their kids.

The tracking of student academic progress online has been around for over a decade. Viewing the curriculum is relatively new, and in Indiana it's required for public schools.
 
And you think some of the parents don’t have an agenda?
Of course they do. I think the majority of parents want their kids to be taught the subject that they are supposed to be learning. If my kid was in a math class, I would want them to teach them only math with no other agenda whether it's religion, LB???, or anything else.
 
Then volunteer to be part of the school. Go through the background check so you can be in the school and don't just show up when something happens you don't like.
First and foremost I am NOT the one on here acting like I know everything that is going on. People like to say it's just an isolated incident when they really have no idea whether it is or not. It may be an isolated incident but I sure wouldn't take the "experts" on here word for it being isolated.

Secondly, I am way past that stage... I have grandkids that I can spoil. :)
 
And you think some of the parents don’t have an agenda? I’d say just as many or more parents do than teachers.
I'm not sure what agendas teachers have other than educating. As they get invested in their students, they might come across situations that deserve a lot compassion and understanding to get through. At that level they need to see their counselor, and all of that bothers some parents, that a counselor would be someone a child could confide in.


Parents such as Moms for Liberty and Purple for Parents have a very stated agenda and objectives.
They're pure trash, and they seem to have members with things to hide locally.
 
First and foremost I am NOT the one on here acting like I know everything that is going on. People like to say it's just an isolated incident when they really have no idea whether it is or not. It may be an isolated incident but I sure wouldn't take the "experts" on here word for it being isolated.

Secondly, I am way past that stage... I have grandkids that I can spoil. :)
Expressing an opinion isn't acting like knowing everything on any subject, even an informed opinion. Usually the only time someone brings up that type of rhetoric is when they don't like the opinion or the person pushing it.


Public schools aren't keeping secrets from the community. Even their school boards, literally publish their agendas. I'll use Carmel, for example. Last winter they're a 'gotcha' video as part of a 'documentary' that tried to act like this administrator was doing something on the down low.

One problem. It was discussed, almost verbatim, during an open school board session three months earlier. We have parent groups embellishing what is going on in schools. Framing the fake problem as a question.

Example:
Do you agree we shouldn't have porn in schools?

That implies there is pornography in schools.

Of course, locally, our Wine Club for Women has a penchant for quoting Nazi propaganda. (three times) Kind of rough not to see how they see the world.
 
The allocation of those funds is a big problem, but lack of funds is also. Teachers should not be using their own funds, or spending time fundraising in order to supply their classrooms. All too many of the charter schools know nothing about education and are just in the field to make money.
While I won’t disagree with your last sentence, I’d like you to explain how the best funded (in terms of spending per student) school districts are also the worst performing.

Hint: they’re the city districts
 
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To me it's pretty simple. Charters only carry value where there is an academic void.

Right now charters in the suburbs is just a response to the fake outrage view that public schools are inherently liberal.
That’s a pretty simplistic look. If one lives in a historically poor-performing district with entrenched administrators and teachers that show no signs of improvement, school choice is a way out while continuing to try to elect new board members.
 
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While I won’t disagree with your last sentence, I’d like you to explain how the best funded (in terms of spending per student) school districts are also the worst performing.

Hint: they’re the city districts
Simple. Despite all of the protestations to the contrary, the most important link in education is the parent, not the teacher. Your kids can overcome shitty teachers here and there if you have involved parents, the same isn't true in the other direction.

There is no amount of money you could throw at a kid in school that will help if he goes home to a single mom or dad who doesn't give a crap and let's the streets, the TV, or some other bad influence raise their children. The teachers in Carmel aren't better than the ones in IPS, you could swap faculty and the Carmel faculty would fail just as hard. You could send all the Carmel kids to IPS facilities and the IPS kids to Carmel's and it wouldn't make barely a lick of difference because of where they go home.

"All these dumb parents need to STFU and let us teachers do what we want" says two of the childless posters on the board. Thanks for doing the teaching job whomever does it, it is better to have optimal teachers in place but it is nowhere near as important as the people who raise the children that ultimately employ those teachers.
 
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Simple. Despite all of the protestations to the contrary, the most important link in education is the parent, not the teacher. Your kids can overcome shitty teachers here and there if you have involved parents, the same isn't true in the other direction.
That's not true at an all.

I had zero help from my parents but had great parents. My father, a HS dropout, was absent from my academics, and my mother was far too busy working.

Home stability is a key factor to academic success. That I had. My mother wasn't involved in my academics beyond student teacher night and making sure I had supplies.
 
Same reply.

Charters only carry value where there is an academic void.
Well I guess I can see that is what you meant.
Simple. Despite all of the protestations to the contrary, the most important link in education is the parent, not the teacher. Your kids can overcome shitty teachers here and there if you have involved parents, the same isn't true in the other direction.
this is pretty much it. City districts in most states are very well-funded and pay their teachers quite well. I get that Indiana is an exception.

They are always the worst performing districts in the area.
 
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That's not true at an all.

I had zero help from my parents but had great parents. My father, a HS dropout, was absent from my academics, and my mother was far too busy working.

Home stability is a key factor to academic success. That I had. My mother wasn't involved in my academics beyond student teacher night and making sure I had supplies.
That’s enough. Home stability is a mark of good parenting. I didn’t need my parents’ help either but I was fed and clothed and I knew I had to go to school And that was enough. It doesn’t mean his post is untrue at all.
 
While I won’t disagree with your last sentence, I’d like you to explain how the best funded (in terms of spending per student) school districts are also the worst performing.

Hint: they’re the city districts
Thats not always the case. For example the worst performing school district in Indiana is Union Schoo, Corporation. It’s also one of the lowest funded, at less than half the statewide average.
 
Thats not always the case. For example the worst performing school district in Indiana is Union Schoo, Corporation. It’s also one of the lowest funded, at less than half the statewide average.
And where does IPS rank and Ft Wayne and SB.
 
Simple. Despite all of the protestations to the contrary, the most important link in education is the parent, not the teacher. Your kids can overcome shitty teachers here and there if you have involved parents, the same isn't true in the other direction.

There is no amount of money you could throw at a kid in school that will help if he goes home to a single mom or dad who doesn't give a crap and let's the streets, the TV, or some other bad influence raise their children. The teachers in Carmel aren't better than the ones in IPS, you could swap faculty and the Carmel faculty would fail just as hard. You could send all the Carmel kids to IPS facilities and the IPS kids to Carmel's and it wouldn't make barely a lick of difference because of where they go home.

"All these dumb parents need to STFU and let us teachers do what we want" says two of the childless posters on the board. Thanks for doing the teaching job whomever does it, it is better to have optimal teachers in place but it is nowhere near as important as the people who raise the children that ultimately employ those teachers.
Lol. And sometimes all it takes is one good teacher to overcome bad parents and make an everlasting impact on a student ‘s life. Youre being irrational and ridiculous, as your quote implies. i hate to tell you, but no matter how much you try to keep your kids from learning about the real world, it’s going to happen one of these days.
 
That's not true at an all.

I had zero help from my parents but had great parents. My father, a HS dropout, was absent from my academics, and my mother was far too busy working.

Home stability is a key factor to academic success. That I had. My mother wasn't involved in my academics beyond student teacher night and making sure I had supplies.
It is true. Your Grandparents stepped up and performed the "parent" role. You have to have someone supporting you at home or it doesn't matter what they do in school. Now you can go and find exceptions to my rule, they exist, but by and large a kid who is successful in a good school will be successful in a not as good school because of what is at home.

The teachers change every year. The parents don't. The home environment provided by parents (or someone acting in loco parentis) at home is THE most important factor. All that cool stuff at the school district you teach at and the cool stuff at my kids' schools is nice but that isn't why those schools are as great as they are. It is because the overwhelming majority of parents in the community push education and are involved.1
 
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