Over it. On to Purdue… biggest game for us since when!?!

[HoosierJimbo89]

I really question your claim that "Coaches get fired all of the time for lack of March success in a much smaller time period." There may be some but I cannot think of one. I know coaches get fired for not making the NCAA Tournament, but I can't think of a coach that pretty consistently makes the NCAA Tournament but does not make a FF and gets fired absent some other issue like recruiting violations or scandal. Can you name some as it happens "...all of the time." so there must be a good number of them?

How many years did Matt Doherty last at UNC? Do you think Bob Knight would have been fired if his post-season success had been what it was? (Answer: no) UK wants to fire John Calipari, and Tubby Smith "resigned". Texas fired Rick Barnes and Shaka "resigned". IU fired Tom Crean and Mike Davis. Steve Lavin, Steve Alford and Ben Howland at UCLA. Bruce Weber at Illinois.

How much time do you have? I'm sure I can come up with more. You do have a game coming up in a few minutes, lol

 

[BoilerN]

Perhaps beating mid-majors is something a bigger school with more resources should be able to do without "luck." Should it really take a good coach 20-25 years to make one FF? Keady never made one. Coaches get fired all of the time for lack of March success in a much smaller time period.

You mean like Kentucky, or Virginia, or osu? Upsets happen every year to every coach. If someone gets hot or you can't buy a bucket, that's bad luck. The tourney doesn't always crown the best team of a 5 month period. It does crown the best team of a two week period though. But that's what makes the tournament fun. If it was chalk, no one would care as much.

 

[Coach.Grimes]

I have to break rules to be banned.

No, you don’t.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

You mean like Kentucky, or Virginia, or osu?

How are these things not like the other (PU)?

Reminder: you have a game.

 

[BoilerN]

How are these things not like the other (PU)?

Reminder: you have a game.

Still working. I'll turn it on when I get home. Still hasn't started

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I have to break rules to be banned.

Suggest you read the rules.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Do you really believe that act? He is a ord/Birnk/jackassskip level liar.

Oh I do. Dude has no life, so it makes sense he would spend his time trolling the IU boards and learning languages. Very full life

 

[arcb102000]

How many years did Matt Doherty last at UNC? Do you think Bob Knight would have been fired if his post-season success had been what it was? (Answer: no) UK wants to fire John Calipari, and Tubby Smith "resigned". Texas fired Rick Barnes and Shaka "resigned". IU fired Tom Crean and Mike Davis. Steve Lavin, Steve Alford and Ben Howland at UCLA. Bruce Weber at Illinois.

How much time do you have? I'm sure I can come up with more. You do have a game coming up in a few minutes, lol

Doherty is a bad example for your case. He made the NCAA in his first season. However, in his second he had a losing record. Made the NIt in his third but was told that he would not return. The problem was that in his first season he brought in his coaching staff from ND and got rid of the UNC guys with long-standing ties to that program. Dean Smith was supervising his practices. There were a lot of in-house problems. In his last season, it was alleged that he knew about bogus classes for players. So that falls under the scandal exception that I mentioned.

In Weber's case, he only made the NCAA 1 time in his last 3 years there. The Eric Gordon case and its result caused some issues so I am not sure that you can reasonably use this as a good example either.

Barnes was fired despite having a history of success at Texas. He made 2 Elite Eights while there. However, he failed to get out of the first weekend in 6 of his last 7 seasons and did not make the Tournament at all in the other. Plus, in those last 7 seasons, he was 5th or worse in coference in 4. So the program was slipping for sure. I think that it is fair to say that there were issues simply beyond the NCAA there. Plus, UT has a very inflated view of itself.

In the other cases that you mentioned, there is a common thread. In each case, there was a university that had a good history that they felt was not being met e.g. UK, IU and UCLA. One can argue that each of these coaches was reasonably successful but unable to meet expectations that were unrealistic. It will be interesting to see how long Cronin lasts. I see programs that have rather inflated views based upon past history that fail to recognize the environment has changed and what was done prior is a lot harder than currently.

One thing is true, the examples you picked while real are not common. It does not happen all the time as you suggest. That is hyperbolic.

I would not be placing bets on a long tenure for Schreyer. Also, most of the coaches that you cited were hired almost immediately elsewhere so they couldn't have been all that bad.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Doherty is a bad example for your case. He made the NCAA in his first season. However, in his second he had a losing record. Made the NIt in his third but was told that he would not return. The problem was that in his first season he brought in his coaching staff from ND and got rid of the UNC guys with long-standing ties to that program. Dean Smith was supervising his practices. There were a lot of in-house problems. In his last season, it was alleged that he knew about bogus classes for players. So that falls under the scandal exception that I mentioned.

In Weber's case, he only made the NCAA 1 time in his last 3 years there. The Eric Gordon case and its result caused some issues so I am not sure that you can reasonably use this as a good example either.

Barnes was fired despite having a history of success at Texas. He made 2 Elite Eights while there. However, he failed to get out of the first weekend in 6 of his last 7 seasons and did not make the Tournament at all in the other. Plus, in those last 7 seasons, he was 5th or worse in coference in 4. So the program was slipping for sure. I think that it is fair to say that there were issues simply beyond the NCAA there. Plus, UT has a very inflated view of itself.

In the other cases that you mentioned, there is a common thread. In each case, there was a university that had a good history that they felt was not being met e.g. UK, IU and UCLA. One can argue that each of these coaches was reasonably successful but unable to meet expectations that were unrealistic. It will be interesting to see how long Cronin lasts. I see programs that have rather inflated views based upon past history that fail to recognize the environment has changed and what was done prior is a lot harder than currently.

One thing is true, the examples you picked while real are not common. It does not happen all the time as you suggest. That is hyperbolic.

I would not be placing bets on a long tenure for Schreyer. Also, most of the coaches that you cited were hired almost immediately elsewhere so they couldn't have been all that bad.

That is just one big, arbitrary rationale for PU's lowered expectations. If you have higher expectations, then they are "inflated," lol. Most of said coaches went on to lesser programs after being fired.

I hope you were able to catch some of PU's game instead of spending the game's entirity on IU's free board.

 

[TKPKID]

Well, it’s big enough that our students will certainly rush the court. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Of course beating #1 is a big deal. Shit, beating Purdue in general is a big deal… it’s not like we’ve beaten their doors in the last 6 years or so.

I’m so sick of them coming into AH and leaving with a W. We’re fricking Indiana and it’s time to replant our flag.

Need to find the flag before we can plant it.

 

[kkott]

Cupps seems to be on par with what Smith was in high school.

I'd say based on HS career and factoring in AAU, Cupps' record is better than Smith, no? I believe Cupps has already won a state title and was PG on a top tier AAU team, that won a big season ending tourney. I don't think Braden won a state title, did he, and don't really know how good they were in HS, and I also don't think he played on as high a level or accomplished AAU team. I still wish we'd offered and gone after him harder.

 

[go_iu]

Doherty is a bad example for your case. He made the NCAA in his first season. However, in his second he had a losing record. Made the NIt in his third but was told that he would not return. The problem was that in his first season he brought in his coaching staff from ND and got rid of the UNC guys with long-standing ties to that program. Dean Smith was supervising his practices. There were a lot of in-house problems. In his last season, it was alleged that he knew about bogus classes for players. So that falls under the scandal exception that I mentioned.

In Weber's case, he only made the NCAA 1 time in his last 3 years there. The Eric Gordon case and its result caused some issues so I am not sure that you can reasonably use this as a good example either.

Barnes was fired despite having a history of success at Texas. He made 2 Elite Eights while there. However, he failed to get out of the first weekend in 6 of his last 7 seasons and did not make the Tournament at all in the other. Plus, in those last 7 seasons, he was 5th or worse in coference in 4. So the program was slipping for sure. I think that it is fair to say that there were issues simply beyond the NCAA there. Plus, UT has a very inflated view of itself.

In the other cases that you mentioned, there is a common thread. In each case, there was a university that had a good history that they felt was not being met e.g. UK, IU and UCLA. One can argue that each of these coaches was reasonably successful but unable to meet expectations that were unrealistic. It will be interesting to see how long Cronin lasts. I see programs that have rather inflated views based upon past history that fail to recognize the environment has changed and what was done prior is a lot harder than currently.

One thing is true, the examples you picked while real are not common. It does not happen all the time as you suggest. That is hyperbolic.

I would not be placing bets on a long tenure for Schreyer. Also, most of the coaches that you cited were hired almost immediately elsewhere so they couldn't have been all that bad.

Well, really, in Doherty's case, the main problem as I recall was that he was an asshole and his players hated him. It didn't help that he was losing too.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

That is just one big, arbitrary rationale for PU's lowered expectations. If you have higher expectations, then they are "inflated," lol. Most of said coaches went on to lesser programs after being fired.

I hope you were able to catch some of PU's game instead of spending the game's entirity on IU's free board.

Painter clearly like being at Purdue. He certainly could have moved up to the next level if he wanted to, and I respect his decision to stay home. It is a good gig, tools at his disposal are lower, but so are the expectations.

 

[BoilerN]

Painter clearly like being at Purdue. He certainly could have moved up to the next level if he wanted to, and I respect his decision to stay home. It is a good gig, tools at his disposal are lower, but so are the expectations.

Honest question. Which tools are lower?

 

[KenTre1983]

Most of the threads here have decent basketball discussions...and, then there's threads like this where you lose IQ points reading through them.

 

[go_iu]

Most of the threads here have decent basketball discussions...and, then there's threads like this where you lose IQ points reading through them.

Then don't if you don't like it and don't just come here to criticize Purdue, there's enough of that already. Yes, it sucks, but railing on them for no reason isn't changing the shit show we got going. . Most of us want to talk basketball, not crazy try to uplift each other after a shit performance. If you want happiness go get on Facebook and talk about your lunch plans for the next week

 

[purduedavie]

Benter and Catchings were offered by Purdue when they were sophomores. It wasn’t that hard to understand.

Purdue is currently #1 in the country because Edey is so dominant. Smith and Loyer wouldn’t look the same as they do now if Matt Haarms were the center instead of Edey.

JHS is better than Smith. Cupps seems to be on par with what Smith was in high school.

I’d personally take Loyer over Gunn, but Woodson is a defense first guy and Loyer obviously isn’t great in that department. I don’t agree, but Gunn and Newton are more what Woodson wants in his wing guards.

JHS is a much better pro prospect than Smith, if he sticks around will be the better college player, for this year Smith has been the more consistent player. As for Loyer, there’s no comparison at this stage with Gunn, maybe in the future that changes. Personally, I think talent wise IU and Purdue are pretty much even, Purdue at this point has played much better, maybe come tourney time that changes. As a diehard Purdue fan that used to love IU as a kid I try to look at the teams impartially. I thought IU would win the Big Ten this year and Purdue would be 3 or 4th, was way off because of a Edey, he’s been a player of the year, lately TJD is playing at the All American level, other guys need to step up.

 

[kkott]

Well, really, in Doherty's case, the main problem as I recall was that he was an asshole and his players hated him. It didn't help that he was losing too.

Pretty sure that core group of players (who later won an NC): McCants, May and Felton among them went to the AD with their parents and basically said, "him or us". Doherty is often on a sports talk show here in Charlotte and seems like a decent guy most of the time and pretty insightful on bball. Still, hard for him to get away from that arrogant TarHeel/New Yorker attitude at times.

Looked up his Wiki page and he played for long time Davidson coach Bob McKillop in high school. Later served as an assistant under him and says did some of Davidson's play by play at one point.

 

[kkott]

JHS is a much better pro prospect than Smith, if he sticks around will be the better college player, for this year Smith has been the more consistent player. As for Loyer, there’s no comparison at this stage with Gunn, maybe in the future that changes. Personally, I think talent wise IU and Purdue are pretty much even, Purdue at this point has played much better, maybe come tourney time that changes. As a diehard Purdue fan that used to love IU as a kid I try to look at the teams impartially. I thought IU would win the Big Ten this year and Purdue would be 3 or 4th, was way off because of a Edey, he’s been a player of the year, lately TJD is playing at the All American level, other guys need to step up.

How do you figure Smith has been the more consistent player? JHS: 12/4/4 in 31 minutes and Smith is: 9/4/4 in 29 minutes. Pretty similar, but I think JHS has to do more for his team, which is part of our problem.

 

[KenTre1983]

Then don't if you don't like it and don't just come here to criticize Purdue, there's enough of that already. Yes, it sucks, but railing on them for no reason isn't changing the shit show we got going. . Most of us want to talk basketball, not crazy try to uplift each other after a shit performance. If you want happiness go get on Facebook and talk about your lunch plans for the next week

I didn’t criticize Purdue or IU. I criticized the shitposting.

 

[B1G_Fan]

JHS is a much better pro prospect than Smith, if he sticks around will be the better college player, for this year Smith has been the more consistent player. As for Loyer, there’s no comparison at this stage with Gunn, maybe in the future that changes. Personally, I think talent wise IU and Purdue are pretty much even, Purdue at this point has played much better, maybe come tourney time that changes. As a diehard Purdue fan that used to love IU as a kid I try to look at the teams impartially. I thought IU would win the Big Ten this year and Purdue would be 3 or 4th, was way off because of a Edey, he’s been a player of the year, lately TJD is playing at the All American level, other guys need to step up.

Smith has not been more consistent than JHS lol.

If Purdue lost Smith/Furst and had Edey at 80%, you wouldn’t be close to the top of the league. IU is missing two starters and has had a hobbled TJD for most of the year. Comparing the teams talent based on results is not valid.

 

[go_iu]

I didn’t criticize Purdue or IU. I criticized the shitposting.

Well, sorry if I mis-recognized you as one of the "Purdue Uplifters" on here. That stuff is just stupid and there is so much of it. It doesn't change a damn thing that we are playing like crap to disrespect them when they have a good team. The tables will turn eventually, but not this year

 

[go_iu]

I didn’t criticize Purdue or IU. I criticized the shitposting.

That's what most of it is about, were playing terrible, so sad people critique them, it's just totally juvenile and I don't know why people do it .. big deal, so they are better than us for once in a blue moon this year, it will change, but it's not a topic of conversation about how we get better. I'd like to hear something about recruiting progress as long as there's not much to talk about other than this bunch

 

[SqueakyClean]

Smith has not been more consistent than JHS lol.

Not sure I agree with that, but it probably depends upon how you define "consistent".

For example, in the last 5 games, JHS's points have been 3, 24, 6, 2, 10. (season high 33)
Smith's are 9, 3, 10, 8, 19. (season high 20)

I'd say that JHS has much more upside potential to go off for 30 points than Smith, so in that respect, he is "better", but Smith has less "clunker" games.

The turnover numbers are similar (Smith has had 5 games with 3 or more turnovers, JHS has had 9 games). Assists are almost identical.

It's close, but I think I would actually say that Smith has been more "consistent". Again, that doesn't mean better.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Not sure I agree with that, but it probably depends upon how you define "consistent".

For example, in the last 5 games, JHS's points have been 3, 24, 6, 2, 10. (season high 33)
Smith's are 9, 3, 10, 8, 19. (season high 20)

I'd say that JHS has much more upside potential to go off for 30 points than Smith, so in that respect, he is "better", but Smith has less "clunker" games.

The turnover numbers are similar (Smith has had 5 games with 3 or more turnovers, JHS has had 9 games). Assists are almost identical.

It's close, but I think I would actually say that Smith has been more "consistent". Again, that doesn't mean better.

Consistently average. No one is taking Smith over JHS for college basketball this year.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Consistently average. No one is taking Smith over JHS for college basketball this year.

But Smith would have gotten minutes after X went down. Perhaps IU should have taken him when they could.

 

[B1G_Fan]

But Smith would have gotten minutes after X went down. Perhaps IU should have taken him when they could.

Nah, JHS wasn’t expected to be a 1 and done and we have Cupps coming in next year. Will just need to get a stud PG in the portal

 

[arcb102000]

Pretty sure that core group of players (who later won an NC): McCants, May and Felton among them went to the AD with their parents and basically said, "him or us". Doherty is often on a sports talk show here in Charlotte and seems like a decent guy most of the time and pretty insightful on bball. Still, hard for him to get away from that arrogant TarHeel/New Yorker attitude at times.

Looked up his Wiki page and he played for long time Davidson coach Bob McKillop in high school. Later served as an assistant under him and says did some of Davidson's play by play at one point.

You are correct about the player thing. However. there were also claims about the bogus academic work. Since we know what went on at UNC later on, it is reasonable to assume that there was something funky going on at that time.

Doherty evidently brought hard feelings upon himself on Day 1 there when he got rid of the prior UNC Assistants. That likely poisoned the well with the UNC bigwigs. Then W/Ls gave them the chance to get rid of him with the players' help.

 

[destewart]

We’re talking about PG’s, right. JHS assist to TO is 1.47. Smith’s is 2.35. Smith is shooting 89.7% on FT’s and JHS’s shooting 68.9%. JHS’s averaging .947 steals and Smith is 1.136. The are even in steals. Who is proving more trustworthy in protecting the ball, feeding teammates and shooting FT‘s in close contests with the game on the line?

 

[B1G_Fan]

We’re talking about PG’s, right. JHS assist to TO is 1.47. Smith’s is 2.35. Smith is shooting 89.7% on FT’s and JHS’s shooting 68.9%. JHS’s averaging .947 steals and Smith is 1.136. The are even in steals. Who is proving more trustworthy in protecting the ball, feeding teammates and shooting FT‘s in close contests with the game on the line?

Lol cherry picked stats.

 

[destewart]

For those who might not pay attention to such things, Robbie Hummel sustained a torn ACL when Purdue was rolling and then lost the entire next season with another torn ACL on the first day of practuce the next year. Issac Haas broke his elbow in the first game of the 2018 NCAA tourney. We have lost players for parts of other seasons during the Painter era. Injuries affect all times. You lost Scott May in 1974-75 or you almost certainly would have had back to back unbeaten seasons and NCAA titles.

 

[B1G_Fan]

For those who might not pay attention to such things, Robbie Hummel sustained a torn ACL when Purdue was rolling and then lost the entire next season with another torn ACL on the first day of practuce the next year. Issac Haas broke his elbow in the first game of the 2018 NCAA tourney. We have lost players for parts of other seasons during the Painter era. Injuries affect all times. You lost Scott May in 1974-75 or you almost certainly would have had back to back unbeaten seasons and NCAA titles.

Why are you posting this? We don’t care about your injuries.

 

[destewart]

Lol cherry picked stats.

Free throw shooting % differential is a cherry picked stat? who would you want shooting 2 trailing by 1 with 3 seconds on the clock? ATO is cherry picked for a PG? One guy is a 5 star and the other was bypassed by every Power 5 school but Purdue.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Free throw shooting % differential is a cherry picked stat? who would you want shooting 2 trailing by 1 with 3 seconds on the clock? ATO is cherry picked for a PG? One guy is a 5 star and the other was bypassed by every Power 5 school but Purdue.

You included only the stats in which Smith is better. That’s called cherry picking. I thought a 70 year old would understand that. There isn’t a coach in the country (including Painter) that would take Smith over JHS this year.


Go back to your own board.

 

[destewart]

Why are you posting this? We don’t care about your injuries.

Maybe you do not bring it up, but many of your colleagues bring it up all the time in relation to this year and your struggles. Comments about Purdue never losing guys are often made.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Maybe you do not bring it up, but many of your colleagues bring it up all the time in relation to this year and your struggles. Comments about Purdue never losing guys are often made.

So are injuries a valid excuse or aren’t they?

I don’t recall you having any injuries last year when you lost to St Peters… or the year before when you lost to North Texas… or a few years before that when you lost to Arkansas Little-Rock.

 

[destewart]

You included only the stats in which Smith is better. That’s called cherry picking. I thought a 70 year old would understand that. There isn’t a coach in the country (including Painter) that would take Smith over JHS this year.


Go back to your own board.

That is because the OP only used pts, rebs and assists. I pay for a Rival’s subscription and this is a Rival’s forum. I have as much right to be here as you have to be on a Purdue Rival’s forum. I have no problem with you coming on our forums. I do not carry the animus you do. Hell, I drove from Lafayette to Washington to deliver a radio to one of your older fans who had hit a rough spot and could not get the IU games in his apartment. Now relax and enjoy yourself and think of some of the things in life that really suck worse than a guy you would probably enjoy sitting next to on a 3 hour flight.

 

[B1G_Fan]

That is because the OP only used pts, rebs and assists. I pay for a Rival’s subscription and this is a Rival’s forum. I have as much right to be here as you have to be on a Purdue Rival’s forum. I have no problem with you coming on our forums. I do not carry the animus you do. Hell, I drove from Lafayette to Washington to deliver a radio to one of your older fans who had hit a rough spot and could not get the IU games in his apartment. Now relax and enjoy yourself and think of some of the things in life that really suck worse than a guy you would probably enjoy sitting next to on a 3 hour flight.

You do not pay for this site. You do pay for Peegs which you’ve now been banned from for trolling.

Go back to GBI.

 

[hickorytree1]

For those who might not pay attention to such things, Robbie Hummel sustained a torn ACL when Purdue was rolling and then lost the entire next season with another torn ACL on the first day of practuce the next year. Issac Haas broke his elbow in the first game of the 2018 NCAA tourney. We have lost players for parts of other seasons during the Painter era. Injuries affect all times. You lost Scott May in 1974-75 or you almost certainly would have had back to back unbeaten seasons and NCAA titles.

Please don't compare our legendary teams and Scott May to the likes to Haas and Hummel and their teams that were forgotten the next year. What a joke.

 

[arcb102000]

Smith has not been more consistent than JHS lol.

If Purdue lost Smith/Furst and had Edey at 80%, you wouldn’t be close to the top of the league. IU is missing two starters and has had a hobbled TJD for most of the year. Comparing the teams talent based on results is not valid.

This statement of who has been more consistent is wrong. lol

Here is the data:

PPG Smith Average 9.5 Std Dev 5.0 JHS Average 12.3 Std Dev 8.3
Reb Smith Average 4.6 Std Dev 2.7 JHS Average 4.2 Std Dev 1.8
Assists Smith Average 4.3 Std Dev 2.1 JHS Average 4.3 Std Dev 1.8
Steals Smith Average 1.1 Std Dev 1.5 JHS Average 1.0 Std Dev 1.0
Turnovers Smith Average 1.8 Std Dev 1.2 JHS Average 2.9 Std Dev 1.7

In Points per game, JHS scores more, but a larger standard deviation means that there is more inconsistency in his scoring versus Smith.

In Rebounds, Smith rebounds more, but has more variability. Of course, one does not usually rely upon a PG for rebounds, so this is likely a less critical metric for the position.

In Assists, they average the same. JHS has an advantage in consistency, but it is not large.

In Steals, Smith has a slight edge. In this case, the greater Standard Deviation is an advantage, as you cannot have a negative number in a game for this variable.

In Turnovers, Smith has a large advantage in both average and consistency.

The point is that in viewing who is more consistent over the season so, the claim that Smith has not been more consistent is not correct.