Our Former PresidentsNeed to Act

[bub-rub]

They need to join together and call for tolerance of ideas, and an end to the insults, the on-line intellectual violence and the street violence.

Not a word about Trump. Just Carter, Clinton, Obama and Bush reming us we are co-equal citizens with a right and duty to be treated in a civil manner, and to treat each other with respect, especially those with whom we disagree.

Our actual leaders are failures who are stoking hate.

They already tried this last year. We ignored them.

 

[snarlcakes]

DeSantis would kick ass, but he does need to get around Trump first. He may not be up for it.

If DeSantis can’t kick Trump’s a#% he doesn’t deserve to be President.

 

[TommyCracker]

I don't like a lot of the stuff DeSantis jumped on board with recently...but his record Pre Trump is much more palatable.

That ticket you mentioned would be amazing!!! Man...man...so much better. But I'd worry that Condi Rice would be too big of a departure from Trump...his supporters wouldn't accept her the same way they would DeSantis.

And I'm one that thinks once he had the full power of the Oval Office, DeSantis would drift away from Trump, and would probably be a decent President.

If I knew people would rally around Rice, man that'd be an awesome, and refreshing race in 24'.

And that's not even touching on Sherrod Brown, who I think would do a fine job as well.

***edited after reading/remembering their ages. Not ideal, but as was responded, better than Trump/Biden/Harris...

No, I don't think he will.

My fear of Desantis (among several) is because he is literally tracing the political playbook of how Orban gained control of Hungary.

He's not even trying to hide it.

It's also very obvious that Orban and his rise to power is admired by the right leaders and right media.

It's crazy.

It's a path I never, ever thought would be pondered by any fellow Americans much less encouraged.

Desantis is proving he's following the Orban playbook with how he's governing Florida (culture war BS, surrounding himself with loyal conspiracy laden nutjobs, shitting all over basic understood rights that he doesn't like, downright lying and pushing blatant propaganda spin ie his COVID response and how he went dark during the middle of his worst outbreak, villainizing and threatening the press. I mean hell his press secretary Christina Pushaw had to begrudgingly admit she was a foreign agent that worked for Russian political campaigns during a doj inquiry....same arena of press tactics that Orban used in his rise to control) so yeah, I have absolutely zero confidence he'd abandon and turn into John McCain if he got the presidency.

Zero.

I actually believe it's going to take the right a decade, maybe even a generation to rid yourselves of this current fascist leaning disease.

So to also answer the OP...no I don't think former presidents have any power to calm the country down.

They are part of the deep state right?

 

[IUNorth]

No, I don't think he will.

My fear of Desantis (among several) is because he is literally tracing the political playbook of how Orban gained control of Hungary.

He's not even trying to hide it.

It's also very obvious that Orban and his rise to power is admired by the right leaders and right media.

It's crazy.

It's a path I never, ever thought would be pondered by any fellow Americans much less encouraged.

Desantis is proving he's following the Orban playbook with how he's governing Florida (culture war BS, surrounding himself with loyal conspiracy laden nutjobs, shitting all over basic understood rights that he doesn't like, downright lying and pushing blatant propaganda spin ie his COVID response and how he went dark during the middle of his worst outbreak, villainizing and threatening the press. I mean hell his press secretary Christina Pushaw had to begrudgingly admit she was a foreign agent that worked for Russian political campaigns during a doj inquiry....same arena of press tactics that Orban used in his rise to control) so yeah, I have absolutely zero confidence he'd abandon and turn into John McCain if he got the presidency.

Zero.

I actually believe it's going to take the right a decade, maybe even a generation to rid yourselves of this current fascist leaning disease.

So to also answer the OP...no I don't think former presidents have any power to calm the country down.

They are part of the deep state right?

Could be. I see his conduct much more that he was just following Trumps playbook. Everything you mentioned Trump preceded him with by a year or so.

That doesn’t make it right, or better. Might be worse. He isn’t Trump, he was in the military, he was a serious person before Trump took office. So he should have “known better”.

But my main point is that he wouldn’t have as relevant a Trump playbook to follow. As he’d be faced with his own challenges. I doubt he’d be as Trump-like without Trump as a guide.

There are a lot better GOP candidates. I just think it’s either gonna be Trump or De Santis. And I’d pick De Santis 100 times out of 100 if those are the two choices. If for no other reason than it’s possible De Santis could be a serious person. Trump never has been, and never will be.

 

[jet812]

"They did it first" is also a cowardly excuse.

All you have to do is decide to be better. It's not that difficult.

If it’s not difficult why haven’t you chosen to do it yet?

 

[stollcpa]

Ever spent time in Missouri? You'd have to be faaarrr left to admit to voting Democratic there. Same with Rome GA. Same with Washington, IN, I'd bet.

In Luavuhl, voting for conservatives could be being a conservative, or it could be being a moderate . . . there's so much room to have an opinion there.

My guess is that if a bunch of us were sitting around talking about local issues or what to do in a business, we'd likely see things pretty much the same. When I talk about Trump supporters, I see the rabid folks down here who are ready to shoot me, but don't . . . I've had conversations with those folks and they quickly cancel culture me because I don't hew to their politics. I'm not sure that stoll would be that guy . . . he might be, but I'm not sure. MTIOTF . . . naw, I don't see him that way at all. Or RZ . . . they just are playing the Cooler game according to the rules as they see those rules. Same with Mc. And you too.

I’ve got no problem with anything you’ve ever said to me. I might not have liked it but I’d have no problem sitting down with you for dinner and conversation.

I started posting on the Cooler naively thinking you could post your opinions and discuss without personal insults. I thought we were all IU fans.

Didn’t take long for Rockfish to teach me differently and then the Trump years. Trump wasn’t my pick in the primaries but I voted for him against Hillary and Biden. He received no chance from democrats nor this forum. The entire country became a free for all.

My instinct is to always fight back. Not only fight back but crush the person insulting me.

An interesting note that I’ve posted more than once. I gave Cosmic 2 of my tickets to a game. We enjoyed the game and conversation. Even though his posts irritate me I’ve never replied and argued. He’s been the same with my posts which I am sure irritate the hell out of him.

Amazing what can happen when people actually spend time face to face instead of a keyboard.

 

[stollcpa]

I'd take a long hard look at a Condi Rice candidacy. She's about the right age . . . and has the right demeanor.

Maybe Rice vs. Sherrod Brown?

I’ve said Rice would be great many times.

 

[VanPastorMan]

In part, yes. Plus, Trump is still eligible to run. He’s a candidate, not a former President. And he is intentionally part of the problem. He is not a person of good will. He lives to insult and counterpunch. He is Maxine Waters with a penis.

Yes Donald Trump does counterpunch but doesn't that mean someone punched him first? How about in this discussion that you started we ask the former Presidents to call for peaceful rhetoric. They should tell the Press to cut it out and stop fomenting hate for political purposes.

 

[TommyCracker]

Could be. I see his conduct much more that he was just following Trumps playbook. Everything you mentioned Trump preceded him with by a year or so.

That doesn’t make it right, or better. Might be worse. He isn’t Trump, he was in the military, he was a serious person before Trump took office. So he should have “known better”.

But my main point is that he wouldn’t have as relevant a Trump playbook to follow. As he’d be faced with his own challenges. I doubt he’d be as Trump-like without Trump as a guide.

There are a lot better GOP candidates. I just think it’s either gonna be Trump or De Santis. And I’d pick De Santis 100 times out of 100 if those are the two choices. If for no other reason than it’s possible De Santis could be a serious person. Trump never has been, and never will be.

I hope I'm the one being crazy on Desantis because I think he's got a very realistic shot.

24 is going to be Trump or Desantis.

I used to think it was a Trump playbook, but it's much more the same tactics that Orban used (and it's being embraced by the right power brokers) which makes me now believe Trump was just the first symptom and burst opened the door.

I also believe if it's not Desantis, it will be someone like Desantis as those are the kinds of Orban like leaders that are rising on the right.

So 'hoping' it's not Desantis is, I believe a fools game. There's no way in hell a moderate conservative like a Sasse or Mit has a chance in the current party to lead it.

It's going to be a Turning Point, Cpac, Breitbart, Fox/Oan/Newsmax idol.

The party has gone and will continue to go down that path whether it's Trump, Desantis, Cotton, Cruz, Hawley, Massie, Rick Scott, etc.

IMO of course.

Hope I'm mistaken.

 

[Sope Creek]

I’ve said Rice would be great many times.

Yes, you have.

I'm just looking for common ground. Trump ain't it.

 

[stollcpa]

Yes, you have.

I'm just looking for common ground. Trump ain't it.

I understand Trump “ain’t” it. But if the choice in 2024 is Trump, Biden or Harris, I am voting for Trump. Hopefully those won’t be the choices.

 

[Sope Creek]

Hopefully those won’t be the choices.

So our common ground is here?

Given where we are as a country, that's a slim runway to land this plane on.

Tell me more about the other candidates you might be interested in. Let's see if there's any room for common ground elsewhere.

 

[Sope Creek]

We aren’t the hoi polloi.

Hmmm . . . could this be part of the problem? We hear conservatives rail against the "elites". I've often wondered who they're talking about when they support someone like Trump.

My guess . . . is anybody who knows what hoi polloi means considered "elite". What do we do with that?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Hmmm . . . could this be part of the problem? We hear conservatives rail against the "elites". I've often wondered who they're talking about when they support someone like Trump.

My guess . . . is anybody who knows what hoi polloi means is considered "elite". What do we do with that?

I don’t know. It’s a good question. But having a working knowledge of reality, civics and critical thinking skills shouldn’t be considered elite.

 

[Sope Creek]

I don’t know. It’s a good question. But having a working knowledge of reality, civics and critical thinking skills shouldn’t be considered elite.

Interesting . . . MW dictionary has apparently contradictory definitions of "hoi polloi":

Definition of HOI POLLOI

the general populace : masses; people of distinction or wealth or elevated social status : elite… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I was using the first MW definition . . . which were you using?

 

[Spartans9312]

Interesting . . . MW dictionary has apparently contradictory definitions of "hoi polloi":

Definition of HOI POLLOI

the general populace : masses; people of distinction or wealth or elevated social status : elite… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I was using the first MW definition . . . which were you using?

I readily admit….this hillbilly had to look it up.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Interesting . . . MW dictionary has apparently contradictory definitions of "hoi polloi":

Definition of HOI POLLOI

the general populace : masses; people of distinction or wealth or elevated social status : elite… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I was using the first MW definition . . . which were you using?

The first also

 

[stollcpa]

So our common ground is here?

Given where we are as a country, that's a slim runway to land this plane on.

Tell me more about the other candidates you might be interested in. Let's see if there's any room for common ground elsewhere.

Who would the democrats have that are in the vein of Romney, Kasich, Rice, Pompeo, DeWine, Haley?

Before someone jumps on me I don’t mean a democrat that’s republican light. I mean moderate Democrats.

 

[Stuffshot]

Who would the democrats have that are in the vein of Romney, Kasich, Rice, Pompeo, DeWine, Haley?

Before someone jumps on me I don’t mean a democrat that’s republican light. I mean moderate Democrats.

Hell, I'll suggest Evan Bayh for this one, too.

 

[Sope Creek]

Who would the democrats have that are in the vein of Romney, Kasich, Rice, Pompeo, DeWine, Haley?

Before someone jumps on me I don’t mean a democrat that’s republican light. I mean moderate Democrats.

🤷‍♂️

I've been talking about Sherrod Brown as a potential presidential candidate for several years now. That's who I suggested in 2016 . . . and again in 2020. I don't know whether he'd cotton to being called a moderate though. He's from Ohio.

For the record, I voted for Kasich in the 2016 GOP primary here. Brown didn't run either in 2016 or 2020.

[on edit]: Looks like Brown pushes "progressive populism", which sounds kinda like a progressive version of Trump's populism. Maybe a Sanders disciple?

 

[mcmurtry66]

I hope I'm the one being crazy on Desantis because I think he's got a very realistic shot.

24 is going to be Trump or Desantis.

I used to think it was a Trump playbook, but it's much more the same tactics that Orban used (and it's being embraced by the right power brokers) which makes me now believe Trump was just the first symptom and burst opened the door.

I also believe if it's not Desantis, it will be someone like Desantis as those are the kinds of Orban like leaders that are rising on the right.

So 'hoping' it's not Desantis is, I believe a fools game. There's no way in hell a moderate conservative like a Sasse or Mit has a chance in the current party to lead it.

It's going to be a Turning Point, Cpac, Breitbart, Fox/Oan/Newsmax idol.

The party has gone and will continue to go down that path whether it's Trump, Desantis, Cotton, Cruz, Hawley, Massie, Rick Scott, etc.

IMO of course.

Hope I'm mistaken.

I believe this. I've said it before: it isn't the "orange man" "trumpers" cult. Trump tapped into something that will carry on in his absence

 

[stollcpa]

Hell, I'll suggest Evan Bayh for this one, too.

Don’t know his age but he would be fine.

 

[stollcpa]

🤷‍♂️

I've been talking about Sherrod Brown as a potential presidential candidate for several years now. That's who I suggested in 2016 . . . and again in 2020. I don't know whether he'd cotton to being called a moderate though. He's from Ohio.

For the record, I voted for Kasich in the 2016 GOP primary here. Brown didn't run either in 2016 or 2020.

[on edit]: Looks like Brown pushes "progressive populism", which sounds kinda like a progressive version of Trump's populism. Maybe a Sanders disciple?

Honestly I couldn’t meet half way with Sanders or anyone close to him.