Nuclear Power Plants or Windmills, for commercial transportation power

[TomEric4756]

If society can’t use Diesel Fuel, what do want to use?

Pick your poison, Nuclear Power Plants or Windmills to Provide an All-electric Commercial Transportation System.

15 nuclear power plants rated at 1 GW each, or 5653 windmills. (Assuming the wind blows strong enough to produce rated power).

Not sure we can really afford either.

(1)	44610000000​	Gallons Diesel Sold Annually https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/diesel-fuel/use-of-diesel.php
(2)	137,381​	BTUs per gallon https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/units-and-calculators/british-thermal-units.php
(3) = (1) * (2)	6.12857E+15​	BTUs annually consumed as diesel fuel
(4)	40%​	Thermal Efficiency of Diesel Engines
(5) = (3) * (4)	2.45143E+15​	BTUs needed as Electricity for Transportation (net)
(6)	15%​	Charging Efficiency (loss) 1-85% https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36062942/evs-explained-charging-losses/
(7) = (5) * (6)	3.67714E+14​	BTUs needed to offset charging efficiency loss
(8) = (5) + (7)	2.81914E+15​	BTUs needed to Charge vehicles (gross)
(9)	7%​	Electrical Transmission Line Loss http://insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/...sappears-between-a-power-plant-and-your-plug/
(10) = (8) * (9)	1.9734E+14​	BTUs lost getting power to the charging station
(11) = (7) + (10)	3.01648E+15​	Net BTUs delivered as electrical power to charge vehicles
(12)	0.000293​	kWh per BTU https://www.inchcalculator.com/convert/british-thermal-unit-to-kilowatt-hour/
(13) = (11) * (12)	8.83829E+11​	Net kWh needed from Power Generation Sources
(14)	61320​	Hours per year
(15) = (13) / (14)	14413384.76​	Net Average Power per HR, kW
(16)	1000​	1000 kW per MW
(17) = (15) / (16)	14413.38476​	Net Average Power per HR, MW
(18)	1000​	Generating capacity of a nuclear reactor, MW https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=104&t=3
(19) = (17) / (18)	14.41338476​	Number of Nuclear Reactors needed to provide average hourly demand
(20)	2.55​	Generating Capacity of 1 wind farm windmill, MW https://windexchange.energy.gov/markets/utility-scale
(21) = (17) / (20)	5652.307748​	Number of windmills
(22)	$3,000,000​	Cost per Windmill, USD https://www.windustry.org/how_much_do_wind_turbines_cost https://www.windustry.org/community_wind_toolbox_8_costs
(23) = (17) * (22)	$16,959,000,000​	Installation investment USD, rounded up

 

[Bill4411]

Solar seems to be the hot ticket at the moment among green energy advocates.

 

[ButHerEmails]

Solar seems to be the hot ticket at the moment among green energy advocates.

As soon as we figure out how to grant some corporation ownership of the sun, solar will suddenly become the best thing ever.

 

[TomEric4756]

California Environmentalists want everyone in the US to only drive electric vehicles — yet they already scheduled the decommissioning of the last nuclear power plant in CA.

Meanwhile, power outages were wide spread this past summer. Distribution problems with the Santa Ana winds were to blame recently.

https://www.desertsun.com/story/new...lackouts-why-they-happening-again/5612003002/

 

[bailey777]

California Environmentalists want everyone in the US to only drive electric vehicles — yet they already scheduled the decommissioning of the last nuclear power plant in CA.

Meanwhile, power outages were wide spread this past summer. Distribution problems with the Santa Ana winds were to blame recently.

https://www.desertsun.com/story/new...lackouts-why-they-happening-again/5612003002/

California the poster board for crazy.

 

[bailey777]

Many lefties here hate trump but have no idea how unpopular biden is. People would rather have trump back.

BREAKING: Republicans, Trump with Big Leads According to Elite Pollster--InsiderAdvantage: Biden approval: 41% House of Representatives Republicans 48% (R+5) Democrats 43% Senate Republicans 51% (R+9) Democrats 42% Trump 49% (Trump +8) Biden 41%

 

[NPT]

Many lefties here hate trump but have no idea how unpopular biden is. People would rather have trump back.

BREAKING: Republicans, Trump with Big Leads According to Elite Pollster--InsiderAdvantage: Biden approval: 41% House of Representatives Republicans 48% (R+5) Democrats 43% Senate Republicans 51% (R+9) Democrats 42% Trump 49% (Trump +8) Biden 41%

C'mon give it a break... this thread was not about a poll on Biden or Trump. You keep harping on that and it's like repeating that water is wet. I'm sure everyone on here knows that Biden is not polling well now.

 

[Lucy01]

C'mon give it a break... this thread was not about a poll on Biden or Trump. You keep harping on that and it's like repeating that water is wet. I'm sure everyone on here knows that Biden is not polling well now.

Let’s see🤔 Water is wet and Biden is being a puppet for who?

 

[NPT]

Let’s see🤔 Water is wet and Biden is being a puppet for who?

Whoever wants to pull the strings that day.

 

[larsIU]

If society can’t use Diesel Fuel, what do want to use?

Pick your poison, Nuclear Power Plants or Windmills to Provide an All-electric Commercial Transportation System.

15 nuclear power plants rated at 1 GW each, or 5653 windmills. (Assuming the wind blows strong enough to produce rated power).

Not sure we can really afford either.

(1)	44610000000​	Gallons Diesel Sold Annually https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/diesel-fuel/use-of-diesel.php
(2)	137,381​	BTUs per gallon https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/units-and-calculators/british-thermal-units.php
(3) = (1) * (2)	6.12857E+15​	BTUs annually consumed as diesel fuel
(4)	40%​	Thermal Efficiency of Diesel Engines
(5) = (3) * (4)	2.45143E+15​	BTUs needed as Electricity for Transportation (net)
(6)	15%​	Charging Efficiency (loss) 1-85% https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36062942/evs-explained-charging-losses/
(7) = (5) * (6)	3.67714E+14​	BTUs needed to offset charging efficiency loss
(8) = (5) + (7)	2.81914E+15​	BTUs needed to Charge vehicles (gross)
(9)	7%​	Electrical Transmission Line Loss http://insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/...sappears-between-a-power-plant-and-your-plug/
(10) = (8) * (9)	1.9734E+14​	BTUs lost getting power to the charging station
(11) = (7) + (10)	3.01648E+15​	Net BTUs delivered as electrical power to charge vehicles
(12)	0.000293​	kWh per BTU https://www.inchcalculator.com/convert/british-thermal-unit-to-kilowatt-hour/
(13) = (11) * (12)	8.83829E+11​	Net kWh needed from Power Generation Sources
(14)	61320​	Hours per year
(15) = (13) / (14)	14413384.76​	Net Average Power per HR, kW
(16)	1000​	1000 kW per MW
(17) = (15) / (16)	14413.38476​	Net Average Power per HR, MW
(18)	1000​	Generating capacity of a nuclear reactor, MW https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=104&t=3
(19) = (17) / (18)	14.41338476​	Number of Nuclear Reactors needed to provide average hourly demand
(20)	2.55​	Generating Capacity of 1 wind farm windmill, MW https://windexchange.energy.gov/markets/utility-scale
(21) = (17) / (20)	5652.307748​	Number of windmills
(22)	$3,000,000​	Cost per Windmill, USD https://www.windustry.org/how_much_do_wind_turbines_cost https://www.windustry.org/community_wind_toolbox_8_costs
(23) = (17) * (22)	$16,959,000,000​	Installation investment USD, rounded up

Any stomach for add'l hydroelectric power? I understand there are environmental impacts but they cannot be worse than the continued use of fossil fuels (yes, I know you would need to use some fossil fuels to build and maintain the hydroelectric plant).

Also, the continued development of better solar panels and battery technology will probably, ultimately, solve a lot of smaller electrical need in both residential and commercial applications. It will get cheaper over time (as it has been doing for years).

 

[TomEric4756]

I’ll work on solar more at some future date. For now please consider that there is a scarce US manufactured supply compared to the anticipated demand (~14 Nuclear Power plants).

My intuition tells me a household would need the equivalent of at least two EV car batteries and double the solar panels to recharge an EV and power the house at night. In Northern climes, when the sun is hidden by an overcast of clouds for days in the winter, solar my not be practical.

https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2021/08/u-s-solar-china-polysilicon-battle/

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/...nufacturers-to-ask-for-duties-on-imports.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-finds-chinese-taiwanese-firms-dumped-solar-products-1406323563

 

[IU_Hickory]

Many lefties here hate trump but have no idea how unpopular biden is. People would rather have trump back.

BREAKING: Republicans, Trump with Big Leads According to Elite Pollster--InsiderAdvantage: Biden approval: 41% House of Representatives Republicans 48% (R+5) Democrats 43% Senate Republicans 51% (R+9) Democrats 42% Trump 49% (Trump +8) Biden 41%

Given that most republicans will not like a dem president and most dems will not like Repub president these days, no one will poll well in the current environment.

Biden could solve every issue known to man and Pubs would still hate him. This ain't rocket science.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Let’s see🤔 Water is wet and Biden is being a puppet for who?

Not Putin... that was Trump's puppet master

 

[Crayfish57]

Not Putin... that was Trump's puppet master

How is Gepetto today?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Given that most republicans will not like a dem president and most dems will not like Repub president these days, no one will poll well in the current environment.

Biden could solve every issue known to man and Pubs would still hate him. This ain't rocket science.

Absolutely not true. After one year of Biden/Harris and the Squad I would take Trump in a heartbeat over them. I regret having not voted for Trump now, which a year ago would have been unthinkable to me. Biden/Harris and the Squad are the most repulsive combination of politicians I can remember. But I would take Obama over Trump in a heartbeat. I would take Clinton over Trump in a heartbeat. I would take Obama and Clinton over Bush Jr.

You think we're all tethered to "party" when we're not - and I believe that's true for most people.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Biden could solve every issue known to man and Pubs would still hate him. This ain't rocket science.

True. But the problem is not what you think it is about POTUS popularity.

The President of the United Stares is the chief executive officer of our government. That’s it!

The President does not run the country.

The President cannot solve every problem known to man, or any of them.

The President’s agenda should be unimportant if not irrelevant.

We have made the President way too much if an imperial office. Traveling with a fleet of aircraft, zillion car motorcades, ceremonies every time POTUS blows his nose ( or farts or shits his pants), presidential statements about everything, the move toward popular vote, the explosion of the executive branch in size and scope have all elevated the office and person to a place never intended or contemplated.

The worst part is that the public expects a unifying POTUS, a problem solving POTUS, a parental POTUS, maybe even a deified POTUS. In short we want a POTUS who will comfort us and makes us feel secure. That ain’t gonna happen. If you need those things, look elsewhere, not at the POTUS. You will be better for it and POTUS will begin to be more popular and acceptable.

 

[mcmurtry66]

True. But the problem is not what you think it is about POTUS popularity.

The President of the United Stares is the chief executive officer of our government. That’s it!

The President does not run the country.

The President cannot solve every problem known to man, or any of them.

The President’s agenda should be unimportant if not irrelevant.

We have made the President way too much if an imperial office. Traveling with a fleet of aircraft, zillion car motorcades, ceremonies every time POTUS blows his nose ( or farts or shits his pants), presidential statements about everything, the move toward popular vote, the explosion of the executive branch in size and scope have all elevated the office and person to a place never intended or contemplated.

The worst part is that the public expects a unifying POTUS, a problem solving POTUS, a parental POTUS, maybe even a deified POTUS. In short we want a POTUS who will comfort us and makes us feel secure. That ain’t gonna happen. If you need those things, look elsewhere, not at the POTUS. You will be better for it and POTUS will begin to be more popular and acceptable.

This may be aspirational COH but doesn't match reality. The president is like a coach whose style of play (agenda) defines how all the players will play. Biden/Harris set the tone that defines everything we are seeing today

 

[CO. Hoosier]

If society can’t use Diesel Fuel, what do want to use?

Pick your poison, Nuclear Power Plants or Windmills to Provide an All-electric Commercial Transportation System.

15 nuclear power plants rated at 1 GW each, or 5653 windmills. (Assuming the wind blows strong enough to produce rated power).

Not sure we can really afford either.

(1)	44610000000​	Gallons Diesel Sold Annually https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/diesel-fuel/use-of-diesel.php
(2)	137,381​	BTUs per gallon https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/units-and-calculators/british-thermal-units.php
(3) = (1) * (2)	6.12857E+15​	BTUs annually consumed as diesel fuel
(4)	40%​	Thermal Efficiency of Diesel Engines
(5) = (3) * (4)	2.45143E+15​	BTUs needed as Electricity for Transportation (net)
(6)	15%​	Charging Efficiency (loss) 1-85% https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36062942/evs-explained-charging-losses/
(7) = (5) * (6)	3.67714E+14​	BTUs needed to offset charging efficiency loss
(8) = (5) + (7)	2.81914E+15​	BTUs needed to Charge vehicles (gross)
(9)	7%​	Electrical Transmission Line Loss http://insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/...sappears-between-a-power-plant-and-your-plug/
(10) = (8) * (9)	1.9734E+14​	BTUs lost getting power to the charging station
(11) = (7) + (10)	3.01648E+15​	Net BTUs delivered as electrical power to charge vehicles
(12)	0.000293​	kWh per BTU https://www.inchcalculator.com/convert/british-thermal-unit-to-kilowatt-hour/
(13) = (11) * (12)	8.83829E+11​	Net kWh needed from Power Generation Sources
(14)	61320​	Hours per year
(15) = (13) / (14)	14413384.76​	Net Average Power per HR, kW
(16)	1000​	1000 kW per MW
(17) = (15) / (16)	14413.38476​	Net Average Power per HR, MW
(18)	1000​	Generating capacity of a nuclear reactor, MW https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=104&t=3
(19) = (17) / (18)	14.41338476​	Number of Nuclear Reactors needed to provide average hourly demand
(20)	2.55​	Generating Capacity of 1 wind farm windmill, MW https://windexchange.energy.gov/markets/utility-scale
(21) = (17) / (20)	5652.307748​	Number of windmills
(22)	$3,000,000​	Cost per Windmill, USD https://www.windustry.org/how_much_do_wind_turbines_cost https://www.windustry.org/community_wind_toolbox_8_costs
(23) = (17) * (22)	$16,959,000,000​	Installation investment USD, rounded up

Nukes are the only feasible, reasonable, and sane way to produce carbon-free energy—at this time. We need to stop the “all of the above” nonsense and go all in on building nukes now. The juice is only reliably produced by spinning turbines with a constant energy supply. That’s fossils fuels and nukes. All the rest of it is nothing but trendy fashion statements. Home based solar is okay, but it’s more of a feel-good endeavor. Wind mills and their inherent unreliability, and huge mechanical and grid issues are a total waste of time, effort and money. I can’t imagine how we ever allowed any of those

 

[CO. Hoosier]

This may be aspirational COH but doesn't match reality. The president is like a coach whose style of play (agenda) defines how all the players will play. Biden/Harris set the tone that defines everything we are seeing today

Its more retro than aspirational.

Our view of POTUS is our worst enemy. I keep thinking that the Black young men involved in todays shooting, smash and grabs, car jackings, and more grew up with a Black POTUS during their formative years. So much for the benefits we thought the first Black POTUS would bring to America. We need to stop thinking of POTUS as more than just another public servant and look at ourselves to solve the problems.

I don’t disagree with your view of B/H but the reason they have so much bad influence is because of what we make of them.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Given that most republicans will not like a dem president and most dems will not like Repub president these days, no one will poll well in the current environment.

Biden could solve every issue known to man and Pubs would still hate him. This ain't rocket science.

Obama will go down as the last president to break 60.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Its more retro than aspirational.

Our view of POTUS is our worst enemy. I keep thinking that the Black young men involved in todays shooting, smash and grabs, car jackings, and more grew up with a Black POTUS during their formative years. So much for the benefits we thought the first Black POTUS would bring to America. We need to stop thinking of POTUS as more than just another public servant and look at ourselves to solve the problems.

I don’t disagree with your view of B/H but the reason they have so much bad influence is because of what we make of them.

Yup, that's obama's fault. Pretty much everything was the fault of the black president according to some.

 

[bailey777]

Absolutely not true. After one year of Biden/Harris and the Squad I would take Trump in a heartbeat over them. I regret having not voted for Trump now, which a year ago would have been unthinkable to me. Biden/Harris and the Squad are the most repulsive combination of politicians I can remember. But I would take Obama over Trump in a heartbeat. I would take Clinton over Trump in a heartbeat. I would take Obama and Clinton over Bush Jr.

You think we're all tethered to "party" when we're not - and I believe that's true for most people.

Biden could actually be popular if he pivoted like Clinton did but he has no intention of doing that at all. The democrat party has taken him so far left he is never coming back to the middle. The dems have been taken over from the far left and why they trash Joe M I know alot of people hated Trump and wanted him gone but I have no idea why they bought the fact Biden would be a moderate. He even said he was going to be a progressive so a I not sure why so many biden voters are stunned by how far left he is. I just do not think people thought it through imo they just voted on emotion and now we are all paying the price for their votes.

Biden is an absolute debacle but elections do have consequences and suburban women who thought he would destroy covid got the guy they wanted. I had several tell me they regret their vote but i do not really want to hear it I could have told them they would regret it. Now they get to enjoy sky high prices at the grocery store instead of mean tweets. I hope it was worth it to them! I never understood how people thought voting for a guy who would not leave his basement was going to work out well. They guy cannot even answer questions from the press unless they are prequalified and they thought he would be a good leader? Give me a break.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Yup, that's obama's fault. Pretty much everything was the fault of the black president according to some.

You aren’t getting this. My point is that this stuff is not the responsibility of POTUS, but the big government rubes like you think it is.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Biden could actually be popular if he pivoted like Clinton did but he has no intention of doing that at all. The democrat party has taken him so far left he is never coming back to the middle. The dems have been taken over from the far left and why they trash Joe M I know alot of people hated Trump and wanted him gone but I have no idea why they bought the fact Biden would be a moderate. He even said he was going to be a progressive so a I not sure why so many biden voters are stunned by how far left he is. I just do not think people thought it through imo they just voted on emotion and now we are all paying the price.

Biden is an absolute debacle but elections do have consequenses and suburban white women who thought he would destroy covid got the guy they wanted.

Yes as Clinton pivoted. I believe that too re Biden. He could easily salvage his presidency, but I believe he's been hijacked and is too old to fight. Biden ten years ago yes. Biden today no.

My guess is the pubs will take over the house next year and we will be mired in stupid retaliatory investigations over the next three years and not much will get done until the next election, which is fine. Infrastructure passed. That's enough

 

[bailey777]

This may be aspirational COH but doesn't match reality. The president is like a coach whose style of play (agenda) defines how all the players will play. Biden/Harris set the tone that defines everything we are seeing today

Yep but in Bidens case even though he does not really run things he hired people like Ron Klain who do and they are far left wing and not even close to being moderate. I remember my neighbor said oh biden will not be so bad he is a good moderate. I laughed so hard that people fell for that bs. I would consider manchin a moderate and biden is so far left of him it is not even close. Maybe Biden per say is moderate but his staff is all far left and they are running things.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Yep but in Bidens case even though he does not really run things he hired people like Ron Klain who do and they are far left wing and not even close to being moderate. I remember my neighbor said oh biden will not be so bad he is a good moderate. I laughed so hard that people fell for that bs. I would consider manchin a moderate and biden is so far left of him it is not even close. Maybe Biden per say is moderate but his staff is all far left and they are running things.

I think he's conflicted. There are executive actions he has refrained from taking

 

[bailey777]

Yes as Clinton pivoted. I believe that too re Biden. He could easily salvage his presidency, but I believe he's been hijacked and is too old to fight. Biden ten years ago yes. Biden today no.

My guess is the pubs will take over the house next year and we will be mired in stupid retaliatory investigations over the next three years and not much will get done until the next election, which is fine. Infrastructure passed. That's enough

Biden will not pivot I guarantee it. He is not really in charge and even if he tried everyone he employs is left wing and will not let him pivot period. If anything they will double down on the far left wing stuff. I do not really think they are interested in polls or 2022 they are toally driven by ideology and will go down fighting trying to pass this 4 trillion dollar bill which is the real price tag.. i also think they live in such a bubble they really have no idea how unpopular they are. They are in D.C. where 95% are liberals and they think that is real america.

 

[bailey777]

I think he's conflicted. There are executive actions he has refrained from taking

True but pretty sure he is on his own with that stuff. He surronded himself with far left wingers like Harris and Klain. If you read what manchin said he basically blames Biden's staff for him voting no. That is Klain, Susan Rice, etc he was dealing with and they are no moderates. Now they just trash him and think that will work. They are out of touch living in a liberal bubble.

 

[larsIU]

I’ll work on solar more at some future date. For now please consider that there is a scarce US manufactured supply compared to the anticipated demand (~14 Nuclear Power plants).

My intuition tells me a household would need the equivalent of at least two EV car batteries and double the solar panels to recharge an EV and power the house at night. In Northern climes, when the sun is hidden by an overcast of clouds for days in the winter, solar my not be practical.

https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2021/08/u-s-solar-china-polysilicon-battle/

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/...nufacturers-to-ask-for-duties-on-imports.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-finds-chinese-taiwanese-firms-dumped-solar-products-1406323563

I think the US being as large as it is there will be different solutions for different areas. The Southwest and it's 7-8 hours of continuous sun and warmer temps is an excellent area for solar power creation. MIchigan in the winter? Maybe not so much.

Even as a supplement, renewables will allow us to lessen our dependence on fossil fuels and extend the life/supply of those as well. I don't think it needs to be binary choice.

Nuclear is probably the #1 overall option but it's SCARY!!!! to so many and requires a heavy capital expenditure. To be fair, most of these options would require a massive capital expenditure including hydro (obviously) and solar.

 

[Crayfish57]

I think the US being as large as it is there will be different solutions for different areas. The Southwest and it's 7-8 hours of continuous sun and warmer temps is an excellent area for solar power creation. MIchigan in the winter? Maybe not so much.

Even as a supplement, renewables will allow us to lessen our dependence on fossil fuels and extend the life/supply of those as well. I don't think it needs to be binary choice.

Nuclear is probably the #1 overall option but it's SCARY!!!! to so many and requires a heavy capital expenditure. To be fair, most of these options would require a massive capital expenditure including hydro (obviously) and solar.

I burn a lot of Hickory this time of year , really gives off a lot of heat

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

If society can’t use Diesel Fuel, what do want to use?

Pick your poison, Nuclear Power Plants or Windmills to Provide an All-electric Commercial Transportation System.

15 nuclear power plants rated at 1 GW each, or 5653 windmills. (Assuming the wind blows strong enough to produce rated power).

Not sure we can really afford either.

(1)	44610000000​	Gallons Diesel Sold Annually https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/diesel-fuel/use-of-diesel.php
(2)	137,381​	BTUs per gallon https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/units-and-calculators/british-thermal-units.php
(3) = (1) * (2)	6.12857E+15​	BTUs annually consumed as diesel fuel
(4)	40%​	Thermal Efficiency of Diesel Engines
(5) = (3) * (4)	2.45143E+15​	BTUs needed as Electricity for Transportation (net)
(6)	15%​	Charging Efficiency (loss) 1-85% https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36062942/evs-explained-charging-losses/
(7) = (5) * (6)	3.67714E+14​	BTUs needed to offset charging efficiency loss
(8) = (5) + (7)	2.81914E+15​	BTUs needed to Charge vehicles (gross)
(9)	7%​	Electrical Transmission Line Loss http://insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/...sappears-between-a-power-plant-and-your-plug/
(10) = (8) * (9)	1.9734E+14​	BTUs lost getting power to the charging station
(11) = (7) + (10)	3.01648E+15​	Net BTUs delivered as electrical power to charge vehicles
(12)	0.000293​	kWh per BTU https://www.inchcalculator.com/convert/british-thermal-unit-to-kilowatt-hour/
(13) = (11) * (12)	8.83829E+11​	Net kWh needed from Power Generation Sources
(14)	61320​	Hours per year
(15) = (13) / (14)	14413384.76​	Net Average Power per HR, kW
(16)	1000​	1000 kW per MW
(17) = (15) / (16)	14413.38476​	Net Average Power per HR, MW
(18)	1000​	Generating capacity of a nuclear reactor, MW https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=104&t=3
(19) = (17) / (18)	14.41338476​	Number of Nuclear Reactors needed to provide average hourly demand
(20)	2.55​	Generating Capacity of 1 wind farm windmill, MW https://windexchange.energy.gov/markets/utility-scale
(21) = (17) / (20)	5652.307748​	Number of windmills
(22)	$3,000,000​	Cost per Windmill, USD https://www.windustry.org/how_much_do_wind_turbines_cost https://www.windustry.org/community_wind_toolbox_8_costs
(23) = (17) * (22)	$16,959,000,000​	Installation investment USD, rounded up

Nukes are the only proven clean energy solution capable of meeting our energy needs now. The main opponents of that solution are the biggest opponents of fossil fuels. They’re as misinformed about nuclear power as anti-vaxers are about vaccines,

 

[Noodle]

 

[outside shooter]

The most well-known USA-based environmental groups (Sierra Club, Greenpeace, as well as proponents of the Green New Deal) indeed remain opposed to nuclear power. I certainly oppose their efforts.

There has been a steady drumbeat of people on the left moving (and organizing) to support it, in th face of the climate crisis.

Environmental organizations strongly favoring nuclear include:

Bright New World
Californians for Green Nuclear Power
Center for Climate and Energy Solutions (C2ES)
Center for Strategic and International Studies
Citizens for Nuclear Technology Awareness
Clean Air Task Force
ClearPath Foundation
Climate Coalition
Earth Institute
Energy for Humanity
Energy Reality Project
Environmentalists for Nuclear (EFN)
Environmental Progress
European Atomic Forum
Greens for Nuclear Energy
Mothers for Nuclear
North American Young Generation in Nuclear (NAYGN)
The Nuclear Energy Institute
Nuclear For Net Zero[22]
Nuclear Friends Foundation[23]
Nuclear Innovation Alliance
Nuclear Institute
Partnership for Global Security
Third Way
U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Global Energy Institute

 

[larsIU]

I burn a lot of Hickory this time of year , really gives off a lot of heat

 

[larsIU]

You laugh, but it adds 7 horsepower

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

The most well-known USA-based environmental groups (Sierra Club, Greenpeace, as well as proponents of the Green New Deal) indeed remain opposed to nuclear power. I certainly oppose their efforts.

There has been a steady drumbeat of people on the left moving (and organizing) to support it, in th face of the climate crisis.

Environmental organizations strongly favoring nuclear include:

Bright New World
Californians for Green Nuclear Power
Center for Climate and Energy Solutions (C2ES)
Center for Strategic and International Studies
Citizens for Nuclear Technology Awareness
Clean Air Task Force
ClearPath Foundation
Climate Coalition
Earth Institute
Energy for Humanity
Energy Reality Project
Environmentalists for Nuclear (EFN)
Environmental Progress
European Atomic Forum
Greens for Nuclear Energy
Mothers for Nuclear
North American Young Generation in Nuclear (NAYGN)
The Nuclear Energy Institute
Nuclear For Net Zero[22]
Nuclear Friends Foundation[23]
Nuclear Innovation Alliance
Nuclear Institute
Partnership for Global Security
Third Way
U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Global Energy Institute

I’d hardly call a lot of those “left.” Partnership for Global Security, U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the organizations starting with “nuclear” and others in that list more likely lean right than left. However, if any on the left are moving toward nuclear, it’s a good thing.

 

[TommyCracker]

We're still not addressing the biggest problem which is transferring the energy, not generating it.

Solar and wind farms supposedly generate more than what we use at a total level, but our grid is so antiquated and broken down that we can't get the energy produced in Iowa over to NYC.

With this current political environment there ain't no way in hell the Midwest is going to allow for bigger and badder power lines to be built for those damn libs in New York!!

So we need to generate the power close to where it's being used...which means fossil fuels or nuclear if people get comfortable with having a nuclear power plant next to where you live.

That will never happen.

 

[larsIU]

We're still not addressing the biggest problem which is transferring the energy, not generating it.

Solar and wind farms supposedly generate more than what we use at a total level, but our grid is so antiquated and broken down that we can't get the energy produced in Iowa over to NYC.

With this current political environment there ain't no way in hell the Midwest is going to allow for bigger and badder power lines to be built for those damn libs in New York!!

So we need to generate the power close to where it's being used...which means fossil fuels or nuclear if people get comfortable with having a nuclear power plant next to where you live.

That will never happen.

In my best The Graduate homage....."I've got two words for you....BATTERY STORAGE"

Massive batteries. Mid size batteries. Home use batteries.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Solar and wind farms supposedly generate more than what we use at a total level, but our grid is so antiquated and broken down that we can't get the energy produced in Iowa over to NYC.

I've never seen that. Do you have a link. I'd be surprised if this were true.

 

[outside shooter]

I've never seen that. Do you have a link. I'd be surprised if this were true.

This checks Elon Musk's claim that a 100 mile by 100 mile solar farm grid in a deserted corner of Arizona, Texas or Utah (or anywhere else for that matter) using exisiting technology would be capable (even in THEORY) of powering the entire USA's electrical grid. It checks out. How to distribute that energy would indeed still be a problem.

Fact checking Elon Musk’s Blue Square: How much solar to power the US? | UCL UCL Energy Institute Blog

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