New Coach Choices

MikeHoncho69

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Yeah, I don't agree with that -- and I've been as critical of Archie as anybody. We're only stuck in this hole if we choose to remain there.

Now, I realize that nobody would intentionally choose to remain in a hole. You won't find anybody among our administration, alums, faculty, boosters, fans, players, coaches, trainers, managers, or cheerleaders who would cop to wanting to stay dug in a hole.

But we unintentionally choose to stay dug in it by refusing to even consider the possibility that we hamper our chances at climbing out by remaining tethered to the culture we have.

We. Have. A. Cultural. Problem.

That's why we've limped along as we have, over 4 successive coaches, since Knight's firing. And, personally, I think we'll continue limping along -- even with a new coach -- if we don't allow (or, better yet, demand) fundamental changes to our program's culture.

Ask yourselves this question: we've all seen the success that John Calipari has had at in roughly a decade at Kentucky (this season notwithstanding). Knowing that, if we could rewind the clock to when UK hired him and instead hire him here, would you want that or not?

If not, why not?
I completely agree on that fact that IU has had a cultural problem since Knight was fired in 2000.

I am not advocating for John Beilein, but I would use the culture he built at Michigan as a model for what IU should pursue.
 

dbmhoosier

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I like the idea of Scott Drew assuming guys like Beard and Bennett say no. He's a decent coach and would be able to bring top 5 recruiting classes to Bloomington with regularity.
 
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MikeHoncho69

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Dan Dakich is raising an interesting point about who current successful head coaches learned from while they were assistants working their way up the ranks.

Who did Archie Miller learn from?

- Darrin Horn (1 season)
- Herb Sendek (3 seasons)
- Thad Matta (2 seasons)
- Sean Miller (2 seasons)

I wouldn't consider that to be anywhere close to an elite coaching pedigree to learn from.

Meanwhile, Dane Fife is currently in his 10th season working for and learning from Tom Izzo. Chris Beard spent seven seasons as an assistant working for and learning from Bob Knight at Texas Tech.
 
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Harpo Marxist

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I don't think Matta's health is as big a deal as it once was. I think its just a matter of does he really want to take an enormous high pressure job and get his feet wet in recruiting, and all that jazz. As good as he was at Ohio State, he was playing with house money. Enjoyed all the luxury of being a football first school that had endless amounts of resources funnelled to the basketball program.

As far as Nate Oats goes, he was high school coach in Michigan not that long ago. New age coach who highly values analytics. Teams will take 40 3 pointers a game. They're defense was pretty bad last year but surprisingly decent this year. His system is attractive to those who NBA aspirations but question the desire to play two-way basketball. His approach to the game is entirely different than Archie's which on-site at the present moment is a breath of fresh air.
one of the main reason's for Matta's termination at OSU was that recruiting had fallen off significantly. He's had several Top 10 recruiting classes but in his latter years...it dropped bigtime. That would need to be evaluated. Its all about recruiting...year in ....year out.
 

Coach Geez

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Dan Dakich is raising an interesting point about who current successful head coaches learned from while they were assistants working their way up the ranks.

Who did Archie Miller learn from?

- Darrin Horn (1 season)
- Herb Sendek (3 seasons)
- Thad Matta (2 seasons)
- Sean Miller (2 seasons)

I wouldn't consider that to be anywhere close to an elite coaching pedigree to learn from.

Meanwhile, Dane Fife is currently in his 10th season working for and learning from Tom Izzo. Chris Beard spent seven seasons as an assistant working for and learning from Bob Knight at Texas Tech.

To play devil's advocate, Dayton hired Archie at 33 years old so it's not like he had infinite time to be an understudy. He was a part of some good Ohio State and Arizona teams and actually did extremely well at Dayton. On paper he was a tremendous hire who looked prime for big time. His success at Dayton just hasn't translated at this level.
 
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Harpo Marxist

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To play devil's advocate, Dayton hired Archie at 33 years old so it's not like he had infinite time to be an understudy. He was a part of some good Ohio State and Arizona teams and actually did extremely well at Dayton. On paper he was a tremendous hire who looked prime for big time. His success at Dayton just hasn't translated at this level.
"His succes at Dayton just hasn't translated at this level." Problem is...."this level" has been in decline for a very long time. IU is in the lower tier of the B1G and has adjusted to that reality over time...rather than changing it.
 
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MikeHoncho69

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To play devil's advocate, Dayton hired Archie at 33 years old so it's not like he had infinite time to be an understudy. He was a part of some good Ohio State and Arizona teams and actually did extremely well at Dayton. On paper he was a tremendous hire who looked prime for big time. His success at Dayton just hasn't translated at this level.
Yeah, I don't think who a coach has learned from over the years is a clear indicator that a coach will or won't be successful. However, I'd say being able to add to your credentials that you spent years learning from the likes of Tom Izzo or Bob Knight is a tremendous feather in the cap.
 

Coach Geez

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"His succes at Dayton just hasn't translated at this level." Problem is...."this level" has been in decline for a very long time. IU is in the lower tier of the B1G and has adjusted to that reality over time...rather than changing it.

So hire Red Auerbach? John Wooden? What's your suggestion?
 

Harpo Marxist

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So hire Red Auerbach? John Wooden? What's your suggestion?
First and foremost....hire a head coach, not an assistant coach. And hire one who has a proven track record. Beard would qualify....so would Brad Brownell at Clemson. Obviously...the first call is to Brad Stevens...forget Billy Donovan, my first choice for a very long time...he just landed with the Bulls and ain't going anywhere. Beard might be better with recruiting results..but Brownell's recruiting has been picking up. Dana Altman at Oregon would also be someone to look at. These guys all three are not in premier basketball schools..but can win. IU must reestablish a winning culture...hellbent on recruiting at the highest level. I think any of these three would recruit at a higher level than CAM by far.
 

crazed_hoosier2

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First and foremost....hire a head coach, not an assistant coach. And hire one who has a proven track record. Beard would qualify....so would Brad Brownell at Clemson. Obviously...the first call is to Brad Stevens...forget Billy Donovan, my first choice for a very long time...he just landed with the Bulls and ain't going anywhere. Beard might be better with recruiting results..but Brownell's recruiting has been picking up. Dana Altman at Oregon would also be someone to look at. These guys all three are not in premier basketball schools..but can win. IU must reestablish a winning culture...hellbent on recruiting at the highest level. I think any of these three would recruit at a higher level than CAM by far.

Eeh, I’d love to be able to say that Brownell would be a prime candidate. He’s an old acquaintance and a genuinely decent guy. But I just don’t know about that.

Of course, it’s hard to gauge too much by what somebody does at Clemson. But he’s certainly having a good season this year.
 

Coach Geez

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First and foremost....hire a head coach, not an assistant coach. And hire one who has a proven track record. Beard would qualify....so would Brad Brownell at Clemson. Obviously...the first call is to Brad Stevens...forget Billy Donovan, my first choice for a very long time...he just landed with the Bulls and ain't going anywhere. Beard might be better with recruiting results..but Brownell's recruiting has been picking up. Dana Altman at Oregon would also be someone to look at. These guys all three are not in premier basketball schools..but can win. IU must reestablish a winning culture...hellbent on recruiting at the highest level. I think any of these three would recruit at a higher level than CAM by far.

Ok. Archie had prior head coaching experience. Beard absolutely would qualify but he's not coming to Indiana so that's where the conversation starts and stops. Brad Brownell would qualify and even though he's having a good year at Clemson, he's made the tournament twice in 11 years. Archie made it 4x in 6 years at a mid-major as an at-large no less. Brownell screams lateral move at best. Donovan and Stevens aren't even worth discussing, neither are happening.
 
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Harpo Marxist

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Brownell would be a disaster. Drew is a million times better option.
I don't discount Drew....I just don't think he has any interest in coming to IU. His name has been floated in the past....makes one wonder, considering the lenthy tenure at Baylor...IU has changed coaches 3 or 4 times...and Drew hasn't been on the front burner for whatever reason.
 

jbriegel

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Sep 11, 2016
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I don't think Matta's health is as big a deal as it once was. I think its just a matter of does he really want to take an enormous high pressure job and get his feet wet in recruiting, and all that jazz. As good as he was at Ohio State, he was playing with house money. Enjoyed all the luxury of being a football first school that had endless amounts of resources funnelled to the basketball program.

As far as Nate Oats goes, he was high school coach in Michigan not that long ago. New age coach who highly values analytics. Teams will take 40 3 pointers a game. They're defense was pretty bad last year but surprisingly decent this year. His system is attractive to those who NBA aspirations but question the desire to play two-way basketball. His approach to the game is entirely different than Archie's which on-site at the present moment is a breath of fresh air.
Nate Oates has some really fine athletes on his team now and Petty and Herb Jones are really good. They shoot a ton of threes and they have bought into playing both sides of the ball. Watched them beat Tennessee and was impressed. Oates would work here. More uptempo style - more like Iowa and Michigan. Pearl is toxic. Stop.
 
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Coach Geez

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Nate Oates has some really fine athletes on his team now and Petty and Herb Jones are really good. They shoot a ton of threes and they have bought into playing both sides of the ball. Watched them beat Tennessee and was impressed. Oates would work here. More uptempo style - more like Iowa and Michigan. Pearl is toxic. Stop.

Never advocated for Pearl.
 

Bligedy

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After reading about several possible candidates suggested on here, it appears Indiana should choose the new coach from the following list:

Brad Stevens
Mark Few
Billy Donovan
Chris Beard
Rick Pitino
Steve Alford
Rick Barnes

All excellent choices IMO (Pitino is a bit sketchy though but who really cares) and all would likely jump at the chance to come to Btown. It's like what @Courtsensetwo always says: who in their right mind wouldn't jump at the chance to come to the most picturesque campus in the country? A place where big dreams come to fruition and magic fills the air.

Personally, I think we should sign Mark Few or Beard...hell maybe even Phil Jackson. As my man Hoss @Cavanagh said, "time to start a new streak!"
Keep the faith people

-The Buford

Let's hire someone who cares about the University.
 

snarlcakes

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It's hard to continue to support Archie after last night's pitiful performance and I do too believe a new coaching search will be on the horizon sooner than later. However, I think people are going to be disappointed. Call Billy Donovan and Brad Steven's all you want, it's not happening. Chris Beard isn't leaving West Texas any time soon. John Beilein isn't coming out of retirement to deal with this circus fan base either.

As it stands, Thad Matta is likely the one big name candidate IU has any realistic shot of landing. Currently unemployed living an hour north in Indy isn't a tough sell. How much desire Matta has to coach at a program like IU is another thing.

After Matta, I think there's two primary candidates IU should entertain. One is Scott Drew down at Baylor, the other is Greg McDermott at Creighton. Both of those would be outstanding hires in my opinion. Nate Oats down at Alabama has caught my eye as well, but tough to tell how good Alabama really is considering how bad the SEC is this year.

Don't get anyone in that group then yes I think you need to look at Dane Fife (who likely is the heir apparent to Izzo), someone like Travis Steele at Xavier who is an Indy native, or the next hot shot up and comer from a strong mid-major.

I didn't include Pearl, Pitino, Sampson, whatever other outlandish candidates have been mentioned that are and have been under the NCAA microscope for years because its NEVER going to happen.

Eric Musselman is starting to look intriguing. I admittedly would like to see how this year ends up. Nevertheless, I think he could be a good candidate next year (assuming Archie gets a 5th year).
 
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Coach Geez

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Eric Musselman is starting to look intriguing. I admittedly would like to see how this year ends up. Nevertheless, I think he could be a good candidate next year (assuming Archie gets a 5th year).

Mixed bag on him. Like his NBA ties and runs a good offense. Builds his rosters on the transfer market which I think eventually is going to be feast or famine. Not sure how large roster turnover year after year would sit well with the old brass.
 
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TommyCracker

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Pearl is actually a really good guy. But he’s never shown much interest in the fine print of the rule book. Sampson wasn’t such a nice guy. At all.

I've always described Pearl as that friend that brings strippers to your birthday party while forgetting that your wife was going to be there.

I think the best example of Pearl is Dakich hated him, wanted a lifetime ban on him.

Then he worked with him at ESPN. Then they became buds and next thing you know Pearl, Greenberg and Dakich are killing each other in laughter on his radio show.

Dan thanks Bruce for coming on his show and Pearl replies 'of course Dak, you're the best in the business'.

Greenberg and Dakich was taking about AD and they said an ex coach they worked with while on break joked that he knows AD got at least $100k because that's what I offered him!!!!

I'm pretty sure they were talking about Pearl.

So yeah, huuuuuge personality. Super funny and infectiously gregarious but....no way IU can bring him in.
 
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Who cares ..
Who knows what it's like in 2022 -2023..
That's for sure the earliest it happens .
And if Archie lucks into a couple transfers that can ball ..And IU goes to tournament next year.
Then it's a long way's away....
I'm not saying it won't happen..But it's much further than many on this board want.
 

Jssanto

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The great football season didn’t boost our athletic revenues nearly enough to offset the financial impact of Covid. We may have the money, especially since it’s not paid in a lump sum and it’s offset by other income, but the athletic department is paying close attention to every nickel and dime.
I believe we have plenty of alumni who have been successful and could donate.
Can’t name them, but if I am wrong, what is IU doing wrong in education.
 

TrojanFan004

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Who cares ..
Who knows what it's like in 2022 -2023..
That's for sure the earliest it happens .
And if Archie lucks into a couple transfers that can ball ..And IU goes to tournament next year.
Then it's a long way's away....
I'm not saying it won't happen..But it's much further than many on this board want.
They either have to fire Archie or extend him after this year. He will be fired barring a huge run in the next few weeks.
 

Jayhoosier83

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No. No more "up and comers". No more "name coaches". We've had one of each of those the last two hires that have been made, and look at what we got. What we need is someone, when hired, everyone says, "WHO?!" It would be completely clean slate, we wouldn't have expections like, "Look at what he did with (insert name here). If he can do that there, just imagine what he could do here." and we wouldn't be right back here in a few years wondering why he can't repeat the same type of success here.
 

crazed_hoosier2

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No. No more "up and comers". No more "name coaches". We've had one of each of those the last two hires that have been made, and look at what we got.

It's been a while since I've studied logic and the causal fallacies....so I could be wrong. But I think the Latin term for this one is cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Duke hired an up-and-comer back in the early 80s. He kept coming and upping -- until he became, arguably, the most successful college basketball coach in history. But, then, we hired an up-and-comer 4 years ago and he did a rather spectacular faceplant for all of us to witness.

You never know.
 
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Radio Zero

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It's been a while since I've studied logic and the causal fallacies....so I could be wrong. But I think the Latin term for this one is cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Duke hired an up-and-comer back in the early 80s. He kept coming and upping -- until he became, arguably, the most successful college basketball coach in history. But, then, we hired an up-and-comer 4 years ago and he did a rather spectacular faceplant for all of us to witness.

You never know.
Keep dropping the Latin and the logic.

I dig it!
 

crazed_hoosier2

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It's been a while since I've studied logic and the causal fallacies....so I could be wrong. But I think the Latin term for this one is cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Duke hired an up-and-comer back in the early 80s. He kept coming and upping -- until he became, arguably, the most successful college basketball coach in history. But, then, we hired an up-and-comer 4 years ago and he did a rather spectacular faceplant for all of us to witness.

You never know.

Too much Latin today. It hurts my head. I'm trying to bitch about the basketball team and its co....well, the guy on the sidelines.
 
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Big Red Crimson Buffalo

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Not trying to start rumors but reports of a Donovan sighting outside Assembly Hall today....

4u07rt.jpg
 

Hoosierific

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Pearl was my teacher for a couple of PE classes I took while as USI. Nice guy, funny, charismatic, but too much baggage in my opinion. I like Drew or McDermott if they were interested
 

Cavanagh

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Who cares ..
Who knows what it's like in 2022 -2023..
That's for sure the earliest it happens .
And if Archie lucks into a couple transfers that can ball ..And IU goes to tournament next year.
Then it's a long way's away....
I'm not saying it won't happen..But it's much further than many on this board want.
Well you kinda were saying it won’t happen like 3 days ago when u offered to bet me 500 bucks. So again, are you welching? Just say you are and I’ll move on.
 
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Jssanto

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Yeah, go watch the 30 for 30 on the Boston College point-shaving scandal. FTR, neither Davis nor Pearl were at all aware of what the paid-off players were up to. But that happened way back in 1978 and Pearl was a student manager for Tom Davis on that team...and, of course, Pearl was also on Davis' staff at Iowa -- the whole Deon Thomas thing.

Pearl never should've done what he did in making that call, much less recording it. It's indefensible. But, that said, it does go to show just how competitive he is and how much he hates to lose.
What did Pearl do? I know it made folks mad but I do not no exactly what he did. Can you PM me? I will not re post.
 

Jssanto

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Dan Dakich is raising an interesting point about who current successful head coaches learned from while they were assistants working their way up the ranks.

Who did Archie Miller learn from?

- Darrin Horn (1 season)
- Herb Sendek (3 seasons)
- Thad Matta (2 seasons)
- Sean Miller (2 seasons)

I wouldn't consider that to be anywhere close to an elite coaching pedigree to learn from.

Meanwhile, Dane Fife is currently in his 10th season working for and learning from Tom Izzo. Chris Beard spent seven seasons as an assistant working for and learning from Bob Knight at Texas Tech.
Good points
 

ciggar_man

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After reading about several possible candidates suggested on here, it appears Indiana should choose the new coach from the following list:

Brad Stevens
Mark Few
Billy Donovan
Chris Beard
Rick Pitino
Steve Alford
Rick Barnes

All excellent choices IMO (Pitino is a bit sketchy though but who really cares) and all would likely jump at the chance to come to Btown. It's like what @Courtsensetwo always says: who in their right mind wouldn't jump at the chance to come to the most picturesque campus in the country? A place where big dreams come to fruition and magic fills the air.

Personally, I think we should sign Mark Few or Beard...hell maybe even Phil Jackson. As my man Hoss @Cavanagh said, "time to start a new streak!"
Keep the faith people

-The Buford
This my list of coaches on the rise; Steve Pikiell Craig Smith Steve Forbes Travis DeCuire Matt McMahon John Becker
 

ButHerEmails

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In terms of a potential replacement for Archie Miller, here's my two cents on how Scott Dolson should handle it:

First and foremost, regardless of how unrealistic these candidates may seem, Dolson needs to at least pick up the phone and make the call to their agents:

- Brad Stevens
- Billy Donovan

Would those two likely pass? Probably. Either way, it would be a disservice to the program not to at least make the calls.

From there, Dolson would need to move on to the following candidates:

- Chris Beard
- Dane Fife

If IU expressed legitimate interest in Beard, it would prove the administration's willingness to compete at the top level of college basketball, as Beard is the third highest-paid coach in the country at $4.575 million annually. The only two coaches in the country making more are Calipari and Krzyzewski.

Beard would be my number one target based on his accomplishments at a school that has a football-first mentality, as it is the state of Texas after all. Secondly, his teams at Texas Tech have been disciplined, physically and mentally tough, and incredibly efficient.

Tech's adjusted offense/defense efficiency ratings from Kenpom since he took over in Lubbock are as follows:

2016-17: 44/56
2017-18: 50/4
2018-19: 25/1
2019-20: 47/9
2020-21: 27/5

The numbers bear out Beard's coaching chops. There's absolutely no argument there.

Dane Fife is a bit of unknown commodity so to speak. As an assistant at Michigan State, he doesn't have a national profile. However, he's been the lead assistant and right hand man to Tom Izzo in East Lansing for the last 10 years. Some seem to think he's a lock to be Izzo's replacement when Izzo retires, but who knows when that will be. Izzo has been at Michigan State for 25 years and is 65 years old. I would say he has another five seasons in him.

As a former IU player and assistant, he's an "IU guy." I don't view that as any sort of prerequisite for the job, and I've felt IU needs to get away from that mentality. However, it certainly won't hurt.

Would Fife be up for the task of running a program such as IU with his only head coaching experience being at IPFW from 2005 - 2011? I'm not sure, but at this point, I do view him as a guy who will wind up being in the top tier of head coaches when he gets his opportunity.

Here’s my question, how does anyone know IU didn’t attempt to hire, or otherwise gauge the interest of, Stevens or Donovan?

Maybe IU did and both simply said “I’m not interested, but thank you.”

I seriously doubt IU would make it public if that’s what happened. Can you imagine how that statement would go?

“After attempting to hire our first and second choices for head bball coach, and having been turned down by both, we’re proud to announce we’ve hired Archie Miller!”
 
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TrojanFan004

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Here’s my question, how does anyone know IU didn’t attempt to hire, or otherwise gauge the interest of, Stevens or Donovan?

Maybe IU did and both simply said “I’m not interested, but thank you.”

I seriously doubt IU would make it public if that’s what happened. Can you imagine how that statement would go?

“After attempting to hire our first and second choices for head bball coach, and having been turned down by both, we’re proud to announce we’ve hired Archie Miller!”
I know for a fact they contacted Stevens about his interest.
 

T.M.P.

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Whoever we hire, the first order of business has to be a radical culture change. I know I sound like a broken record on that. But if we hire a new coach and resist a change in culture — or worse, hire a coach specifically to leave the cultural status quo untouched — we’ll continue getting the bad results we’ve been getting.

It’s easy to say we needed a new culture in football. We’ve historically never been a very good football program. Basketball is a harder nut to crack — because many still associate that culture with the success of the Knight years. They’re gone - and they aren’t coming back.
A lot of words that mean nothing.