New Coach Choices

Harpo Marxist

Hall of Famer
Sep 11, 2002
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It's been a while since I've studied logic and the causal fallacies....so I could be wrong. But I think the Latin term for this one is cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Duke hired an up-and-comer back in the early 80s. He kept coming and upping -- until he became, arguably, the most successful college basketball coach in history. But, then, we hired an up-and-comer 4 years ago and he did a rather spectacular faceplant for all of us to witness.

You never know.
That Duke hire came with the personal recommendation and insight from RMK. Even though he struggled.....Duke stayed with him. Who is that wise legend that will make a recommendation to IU? Can't think of one.
 
Dec 28, 2015
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They either have to fire Archie or extend him after this year. He will be fired barring a huge run in the next few weeks.
I'll get back to you ....
No way he's fired this year..
Covid has wreck the cash flow at Indiana..
No way in hell it happens this year..
 
Jan 14, 2005
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It's hard to continue to support Archie after last night's pitiful performance and I do too believe a new coaching search will be on the horizon sooner than later. However, I think people are going to be disappointed. Call Billy Donovan and Brad Steven's all you want, it's not happening. Chris Beard isn't leaving West Texas any time soon. John Beilein isn't coming out of retirement to deal with this circus fan base either.

As it stands, Thad Matta is likely the one big name candidate IU has any realistic shot of landing. Currently unemployed living an hour north in Indy isn't a tough sell. How much desire Matta has to coach at a program like IU is another thing.

After Matta, I think there's two primary candidates IU should entertain. One is Scott Drew down at Baylor, the other is Greg McDermott at Creighton. Both of those would be outstanding hires in my opinion. Nate Oats down at Alabama has caught my eye as well, but tough to tell how good Alabama really is considering how bad the SEC is this year.

Don't get anyone in that group then yes I think you need to look at Dane Fife (who likely is the heir apparent to Izzo), someone like Travis Steele at Xavier who is an Indy native, or the next hot shot up and comer from a strong mid-major.

I didn't include Pearl, Pitino, Sampson, whatever other outlandish candidates have been mentioned that are and have been under the NCAA microscope for years because its NEVER going to happen.
I like Oats. I'd be worried about his Alabama work being a mirage, but he did well at Buffalo too.

They run. Over the last few years, college basketball has been trending defensive, so a defensive specialist like Miller or Beard is a less valuable. Offense is where you can make a bigger difference.
I'll get back to you ....
No way he's fired this year..
Covid has wreck the cash flow at Indiana..
No way in hell it happens this year..
I figure that all depends on whether some donor wants to pay for it. The buyout is huge at this point...like 15M. End of next year it drops to 6M, iirc.
 

Tasmanian Devil

All-American
May 27, 2010
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That Duke hire came with the personal recommendation and insight from RMK.

Nope.

Although RMK had nice things to say about Coach K during his hiring process for the Duke job, it was AFTER he was asked about him by Duke AD Tom Butters. Knight actually was pushing for K to take the Iowa State job.
 

Kelly_32

All-Big Ten
Dec 12, 2004
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I never had any personal dealings with Kelvin Sampson. But I had a number of personal dealings with Bruce Pearl when he was at USI. If his positivity and enthusiasm is an act, he's a fantastic actor who has never, in my experience, let the act down.

Let me put it this way, last March USI celebrated the 25th anniversary of his 1995 National Championship team during a game. Auburn also had a game that day -- against Kentucky. Big game. And Kentucky ended up winning. Shortly after the tough loss, Pearl hopped on a plane and flew back to Evansville to take part in the celebration with his old team. And it was all smiles and hugs. Virtually the entire roster made the effort to be there along with their former coach.

It's no act. He's the real deal. But, yeah, he does have a casual relationship with the rules -- and that's ironically always been what has kept him from reaching his true potential. Because he really is a terrific basketball coach.

I met Pearl when Butler was playing in the FF in Indy. He was standing by himself so I just walked over, introduced myself and we talked a little about USI. He got a phone call and said it was a recruit’s mom and he had to take it. I thanked him for his time and started to walk away and he said “Don’t go anywhere. This’ll just take a minute.” A minute or two later he was off the phone and we talked for another ten minutes or so. Great dude!
 

smurphy1868

Newcomer
Sep 2, 2001
14
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After reading about several possible candidates suggested on here, it appears Indiana should choose the new coach from the following list:

Brad Stevens
Mark Few
Billy Donovan
Chris Beard
Rick Pitino
Steve Alford
Rick Barnes

All excellent choices IMO (Pitino is a bit sketchy though but who really cares) and all would likely jump at the chance to come to Btown. It's like what @Courtsensetwo always says: who in their right mind wouldn't jump at the chance to come to the most picturesque campus in the country? A place where big dreams come to fruition and magic fills the air.

Personally, I think we should sign Mark Few or Beard...hell maybe even Phil Jackson. As my man Hoss @Cavanagh said, "time to start a new streak!"
Keep the faith people

-The Buford
Pearl 1st choice, then Alford. All in. 3rd choice keep Lil Archie m
 
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Victorbmyboy

Junior
Nov 10, 2014
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Nate Oats - formerly of Buffalo, now in 2nd year at Alabama. Doesn't have the pedigree of the names mentioned above, but is an up and comer. I know, I know everyone thought that about Archie too. The key difference is he is in a big boy conference now. Also, he's used to coaching at a football school. ;)

Go watch Alabama play today's type of basketball.
This is the only name mentioned that could happen. The others mentioned are never going to happen. Alford for fu$& sake....
 

rajincawcajin

Newcomer
Jan 15, 2021
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I know they’re not coming, but you basically offer Brad Stevens and Mark Few a blank check. UNC, Kansas, and Kentucky all went out and landed their big fish. They paid a ton of money but none of them regret it.

When they say no, IU should target Beard, Matta, and Beilein. If you can’t hire any of those three, go digging for the hidden gem in our own state and let Greg Tonagel return us to the promised land. It worked for Wisconsin!
 

i'vegotwinners

Hall of Famer
Dec 1, 2006
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IU made the biggest coaching hire mistake of the school's history when it didn't hire Randy Wittman after Davis.

they totally f'd it up again when they didn't hire him after Sampson.

that said, no way IU does any worse with Alford than those they passed him over for either.

a head coach is like an ingredient in a recipe, and what works in one dish doesn't necessarily work in another.

there is a reason Few stays at Gonzaga, do you really think Izzo wins big anywhere but MSU, and coaching success doesn't transfer all that well in college bball.

we need the right ingredient for IU, not any other school, and i think those two sound as good as anyone, even if hiring either 15 yrs ago would have been better timing in many respects.

on the other hand, maybe the timing now is better in actuality, since we now have a decade and a half of seeing how well not hiring them has worked out.

no one here lobbied harder for Wittman after Davis and after Sampson than i, and pushed hard for Alford as my second choice both times. (2nd choice due to his negatives which Wittman didn't carry, and Wittman's more impressive resume to recruits).

then again after Crean.

the board know it alls fought me to the death all 3 times, all loved the Sampson hire despite the total and complete idiocracy of it, then loved the Crean hire, then loved the Miller hire.

no doubt those who fought me before will do so again, because while they obviously don't know squat, being wrong time after time doesn't phase them one bit, and all are totally addicted to the flavor of the month.

and another thing to think about is that Wittman and Alford both no doubt have more money than they know what to do with, but what they don't have is ever being IU's head bball coach.

i would think/hope possibly either would come in for less than what other flavor of the yr candidates would demand, which could offset much of any buyout issues.

while now possibly a less obvious choice due to age, i still would love to see Wittman given a chance, and if not Wittman, then Alford.

they were the most obvious choices each time before, and we out smarted ourselves time after time.

how's that working out?

time to stop over thinking it.
 

JB_Nomee

Freshman
Dec 18, 2012
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I know they’re not coming, but you basically offer Brad Stevens and Mark Few a blank check. UNC, Kansas, and Kentucky all went out and landed their big fish. They paid a ton of money but none of them regret it.

When they say no, IU should target Beard, Matta, and Beilein. If you can’t hire any of those three, go digging for the hidden gem in our own state and let Greg Tonagel return us to the promised land. It worked for Wisconsin!

I guess I don’t really understand the Mark Few chatter. He’s coaching the #1 team in the country. When was the last time IU was better than Gonzaga? No idea why he’d come. At least with Brad there’s the Indiana connection so I get the thought process.

I really like Chris Beard. I think John B is a little old and would take some time, and our fan base doesn’t have a ton of patience. By the time he built IU up he may be retiring. Matta is a total wild card with his health and all. If he’s healthy and willing he could do some great things. I’d personally like to see Bruce Pearl but don’t see any way IU would hire a guy with his track record. Love him as a coach tho.
 

Brockway

Junior
Jan 27, 2012
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I guess I don’t really understand the Mark Few chatter.

It's pure fantasy lacking a single grain of reality.
Few will never leave Gonzaga for another college coaching position. He most likely will never leave Gonzaga for any other job.
 
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Harpo Marxist

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Sep 11, 2002
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Nope.

Although RMK had nice things to say about Coach K during his hiring process for the Duke job, it was AFTER he was asked about him by Duke AD Tom Butters. Knight actually was pushing for K to take the Iowa State job.
Try again....Duke did hire Coach K on Knight's advice. Its a fact.
 

Harpo Marxist

Hall of Famer
Sep 11, 2002
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IU's last final four is older than today's recruits. Its been slim pickings ever since. I think recruiting is a much bigger challenge at IU than may may think...because the culture has changed so much...and so many programs have had much more success over the past 18 years than IU has had. A successful, hungry head coach that can recruit at the highest level is in short supply. It would help if the coach has a name that recruits for him (Donovan).....

The other issue is the administration. There is not mandate to land that home run.
 
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Tasmanian Devil

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May 27, 2010
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Try again....Duke did hire Coach K on Knight's advice. Its a fact.
You need to read John Feinstein's The Legend's Club.

Duke AD Tom Butters called Knight about coaching candidates. They talked about several: OU's Dave Bliss, Kansas State's Jack Hartman, Tennessee's Don Devoe, and Mississippi's Bob Weltlich.

After talking about all of them and asking Knight if he had any other suggestions, Butters asked Knight "What about Mike Krzyzewski?"

Butters said Knight was silent for about a minute. Finally, Knight said "Butters, you really like the way I coach, don't you? Mike Krzyzewski has all of my good qualities and none of my bad."

Still, Knight was pushing Krzyzewski to take the Iowa State job; Mike Krzyzewski felt like he might fall behind Weltlich in the pecking order of who Knight would want to get the Duke job, since Weltlich was older and had been coaching longer. Still, he was really interested in the Duke job after being interviewed by Butters. Krzyzewski decided to ask Col. Tom Rogers, who was his officer representative at the time at West Point, what he thought.

"Iowa State's a good job," Rogers told him. "But I think Duke is special. You need to ride the Duke thing out."

So K turned Iowa St down. He interviewed with Butters again in Lexington when Duke was playing in the regional at Rupp Arena. He then interviewed a THIRD time at Durham, when Butters had K and all the other candidates on campus to present to the Duke Athletic Board.

Butters struggled to make the hire - primarily because Army had just finished 9-17. But, ultimately, he took the gamble and hired him.

This is paraphrased from what I remember from the book (my copy is at work). But the book spells out everything that happened in that hiring. It was Steve Vacendak, a former Duke player who was working unders Butters in the Athletic Dept who first suggested Krzyzewski. Although Knight said nice things about K once asked, it likely would have been Weltlich who got the Duke job had it not been for Vacendak; Knight never said anything about K until asked. If you love basketball, I highly recommend getting a copy and reading it. One of the best basketball books I've ever read (Terry Pluto's Loose Balls is tied with The Legend's Club IMHO).
 

Wildmanroom

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Jan 8, 2007
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I know they’re not coming, but you basically offer Brad Stevens and Mark Few a blank check. UNC, Kansas, and Kentucky all went out and landed their big fish. They paid a ton of money but none of them regret it.

When they say no, IU should target Beard, Matta, and Beilein. If you can’t hire any of those three, go digging for the hidden gem in our own state and let Greg Tonagel return us to the promised land. It worked for Wisconsin!

What has changed with Brad Stevens that wouldn’t result in a “no” like last time? It’s not about the “blank check” for him.
 
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Cavanagh

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Mar 1, 2012
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What has changed with Brad Stevens that wouldn’t result in a “no” like last time? It’s not about the “blank check” for him.

I don’t think IU has offered him a blank check. They have shown how cheap they have been over the years. you want stevens? You take the UK approach when they hired cal. You make him the highest paid coach.

call his agent and say we are prepared to offer 100 million over 10 years. He takes that call.

he’s doesn’t take the 8 year 50 million that we probably would offer tho.
 
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go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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I'll get back to you ....
No way he's fired this year..
Covid has wreck the cash flow at Indiana..
No way in hell it happens this year..
It's not $$$. COVID has not wrecked IU's ability to fire/buyout AM. What it has wrecked is the ability to get a good coach that wants to take this on. We're at ground zero again. Thanks Fred, at least AM sucks bad enough an extension won't be in play, and it might be better to start fresh with an actual coach than try to just not finish last in conference every year
 
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oldcougar77

All-Big Ten
Apr 21, 2004
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It's not $$$. COVID has not wrecked IU's ability to fire/buyout AM. What it has wrecked is the ability to get a good coach that wants to take this on. We're at ground zero again. Thanks Fred, at least AM sucks bad enough an extension won't be in play, and it might be better to start fresh with an actual coach than try to just not finish last in conference every year
As painful as it might be, the smart money is to give Archie one more year. Firing him now will trash the program to the same degree we saw when Sampson was fired and Crean hired. Especially with the immediate transfer policy the NCAA has embraced. We might very well be better off in the long run but we will likely be completely noncompetitive for two years. Use next year to do a thorough search if Archie struggles again (likely) and re-evaluate if an experienced team markedly improves and it looks like IU and Archie have turned a corner (not highly likely but not out of the realm of possibility). It's also worth mentioning that Archie is a pretty honorable guy. I think if next year is not a huge jump over the first four it's highly likely that he resigns. That makes it a smoother and quicker transition, increases the likelihood of retaining players, and doesn't disrupt recruiting to the same extent. In my mind, that option puts us no further behind than the abrupt canning of a coach at the end of this season.

As for Brad Stevens, I wouldn't hold my breath that a blank check will motivate him. He doesn't operate that way. He doesn't care about ludicrous money and his ego doesn't need him to be the highest paid coach. He's made NBA money for a few years now and he's a shrewd money manager who doesn't live a lavish lifestyle. More importantly, he hates recruiting with a fiery passion. I know because I heard him say it personally. After his first year in Boston, I was with a friend who lives next to Butler's campus and is a Butler grad and longtime booster. We were walking my buddy's dog on campus and ran into Brad who was on a jog. He stopped to chat and my friend asked him about his first year. His exact words were that he was sorry their season ended so soon ( I don't think they made the playoffs or maybe they got swept the first round) but that he was thrilled that for the first time in a long time he wouldn't be spending his summer chasing 18-year-old kids around the country and sitting through AAU tournaments all summer.

His outlook might have changed after a few years of the NBA travel grind and dealing with player egos, but I'd take him at his word if he said from the get-go he had no interest. My hope would be that Beard could be lured by the prospect of easier recruiting and a higher profile at IU than TT. He might be of the mind that he could have a perennial power here with less effort attracting players. Then again, maybe not. I also have no idea what the terms of his contract might be - including the possible buyout. I think the Alabama coach (former Buffalo guy) is intriguing as well.

I'm disappointed as hell because I think Archie is a damn good coach and a good man. I still think he was the right hire at the time without the benefit of hindsight. Unfortunately, he can't seem to attract top-flight talent or get consistent effort out of the guys he has. If I was running things, I'd still give him one more year to be certain given the expense and disruption of making the change this year.
 

ButHerEmails

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Sep 28, 2019
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I guess I don’t really understand the Mark Few chatter. He’s coaching the #1 team in the country. When was the last time IU was better than Gonzaga? No idea why he’d come. At least with Brad there’s the Indiana connection so I get the thought process.

I really like Chris Beard. I think John B is a little old and would take some time, and our fan base doesn’t have a ton of patience. By the time he built IU up he may be retiring. Matta is a total wild card with his health and all. If he’s healthy and willing he could do some great things. I’d personally like to see Bruce Pearl but don’t see any way IU would hire a guy with his track record. Love him as a coach tho.

I’m pretty sure Beard has spent the better part of his life in TX. I don’t think he’s going anywhere. He’s home.
 

jbriegel

Redshirt
Sep 11, 2016
142
166
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Bruce Pearl is the ultimate salesman. Every interaction with Pearl is transactional and he is bigger than life - but a total scumbag ethically. And not a great coach. Good to great recruiter. He got fired from Tennessee for lying straight up to his employer and at Auburn they don’t give a crap what he does Chuck Person, Auburn assistant arrested in the FBI sting. Auburn protects him. He’s staying where he can be safe.
 

Harpo Marxist

Hall of Famer
Sep 11, 2002
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Bruce Pearl is the ultimate salesman. Every interaction with Pearl is transactional and he is bigger than life - but a total scumbag ethically. And not a great coach. Good to great recruiter. He got fired from Tennessee for lying straight up to his employer and at Auburn they don’t give a crap what he does Chuck Person, Auburn assistant arrested in the FBI sting. Auburn protects him. He’s staying where he can be safe.
Pearl is a basketball philanderer......he can't resist the urge to step over the line when it bites him.
 

jbriegel

Redshirt
Sep 11, 2016
142
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Has anyone seen Drake play this year ? DeVries was MVC coach of the year last year ( I believe that is correct). Is he a legit candidate to move up ?
 

snarlcakes

Senior
Sep 9, 2009
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As painful as it might be, the smart money is to give Archie one more year. Firing him now will trash the program to the same degree we saw when Sampson was fired and Crean hired. Especially with the immediate transfer policy the NCAA has embraced. We might very well be better off in the long run but we will likely be completely noncompetitive for two years. Use next year to do a thorough search if Archie struggles again (likely) and re-evaluate if an experienced team markedly improves and it looks like IU and Archie have turned a corner (not highly likely but not out of the realm of possibility). It's also worth mentioning that Archie is a pretty honorable guy. I think if next year is not a huge jump over the first four it's highly likely that he resigns. That makes it a smoother and quicker transition, increases the likelihood of retaining players, and doesn't disrupt recruiting to the same extent. In my mind, that option puts us no further behind than the abrupt canning of a coach at the end of this season.

As for Brad Stevens, I wouldn't hold my breath that a blank check will motivate him. He doesn't operate that way. He doesn't care about ludicrous money and his ego doesn't need him to be the highest paid coach. He's made NBA money for a few years now and he's a shrewd money manager who doesn't live a lavish lifestyle. More importantly, he hates recruiting with a fiery passion. I know because I heard him say it personally. After his first year in Boston, I was with a friend who lives next to Butler's campus and is a Butler grad and longtime booster. We were walking my buddy's dog on campus and ran into Brad who was on a jog. He stopped to chat and my friend asked him about his first year. His exact words were that he was sorry their season ended so soon ( I don't think they made the playoffs or maybe they got swept the first round) but that he was thrilled that for the first time in a long time he wouldn't be spending his summer chasing 18-year-old kids around the country and sitting through AAU tournaments all summer.

His outlook might have changed after a few years of the NBA travel grind and dealing with player egos, but I'd take him at his word if he said from the get-go he had no interest. My hope would be that Beard could be lured by the prospect of easier recruiting and a higher profile at IU than TT. He might be of the mind that he could have a perennial power here with less effort attracting players. Then again, maybe not. I also have no idea what the terms of his contract might be - including the possible buyout. I think the Alabama coach (former Buffalo guy) is intriguing as well.

I'm disappointed as hell because I think Archie is a damn good coach and a good man. I still think he was the right hire at the time without the benefit of hindsight. Unfortunately, he can't seem to attract top-flight talent or get consistent effort out of the guys he has. If I was running things, I'd still give him one more year to be certain given the expense and disruption of making the change this year.

The smart money isn’t on keeping Archie. He’s a mediocre coach. He would be better served coaching at a mid-major where he won’t be exposed constantly. The truth is you have been out in left field on this one and got it wrong. To be fair coaches are usually bias and tend to stick up for other coaches (I can’t fault you).

Also, keeping bad coaches early doesn’t trash programs. Continuing to employ them wreck programs (aka..Tom Crean). Everyone knows Archie is going to be fired. Better to get it over with now, rather than wasting another year.
 
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TR32

All-American
Nov 20, 2009
6,438
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If it comes to looking at coaches, Marshall, Matta, Beard.

I'd at least take a strong look at Fife and Lewis.

And outside soup du jour guys, Pat Kelsey is doing a great job. I have no idea if he is good enough though.
 

HoosierAlum07

Benchwarmer
Dec 30, 2013
244
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Id be on the Brad Stevens bandwagon! He could show IU the Butler way! Hek, even Lavall Jordan maybe! Butler is having a down year, not as bad as IU even though IU beat them, Butler still remains competitive in every game! Given his coaching style, he’d atleast have this team ready to play alot more than CAM has! Its too bad he went to Bahston before we could get rid of Crean

Butler just took down #8Creighton BTW!
 

sdhoosier

All-Big Ten
Dec 21, 2001
3,772
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So Calif
Home run hires.
Chris Beard
Bruce Pearl
Thad Matta
John Belien
Greg Marshall



Chris Beard
Bruce Pearl
Thad Matta
John Belien
Greg Marshall


or

Dana Altman- 20 plus wins for 10 straight seasons at Oregon. 6 NCAA tournaments during that time including 1 final four, 1 elite eight and 2 sweet 16's. Last year was 24-7 before season stopped
 

welshman#

All-Big Ten
Gold Member
Dec 10, 2001
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After reading about several possible candidates suggested on here, it appears Indiana should choose the new coach from the following list:

Brad Stevens
Mark Few
Billy Donovan
Chris Beard
Rick Pitino
Steve Alford
Rick Barnes

All excellent choices IMO (Pitino is a bit sketchy though but who really cares) and all would likely jump at the chance to come to Btown. It's like what @Courtsensetwo always says: who in their right mind wouldn't jump at the chance to come to the most picturesque campus in the country? A place where big dreams come to fruition and magic fills the air.

Personally, I think we should sign Mark Few or Beard...hell maybe even Phil Jackson. As my man Hoss @Cavanagh said, "time to start a new streak!"
Keep the faith people

-The Buford
is this the same Mark Few that Rick Greenspan asked to interview and was told "No thanks"?
 
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crazed_hoosier2

Hall of Famer
Mar 28, 2011
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Firing him now will trash the program to the same degree we saw when Sampson was fired and Crean hired.

You’re not the only one who has said this. But it’s totally unsupported. This is more of an irrational fear than something grounded in history or evidence.

Especially with the immediate transfer policy the NCAA has embraced.

I’d actually say this rule favors a coaching change....especially when (as you correctly say) we have a shortage of talent right now.

This rule gives a new coach a rare opportunity to reset his roster faster than he otherwise would.

I’d say the danger, with this rule, is having a lame duck coach. With that much roster flux, who’s going to transfer to a guy who probably won’t be there much longer?

...I think Archie is a damn good coach

....he can't seem to attract top-flight talent or get consistent effort out of the guys he has.

If the first statement were true, the second and third wouldn’t be the case. But they are the case.

Archie Miller is not a damn good coach. He’s a failure - at least at this level.

If I was running things, I'd still give him one more year to be certain given the expense and disruption of making the change this year.

1) I’m glad you’re not running things.

2) The expense of firing him is the only sensible reason not to. Every single other factor favors cutting bait.

3) There’s nothing left to be uncertain of. His teams — all four of them — have been average to below average. There’s nothing left to see, there will be no payoff.
 

deadpurpledog

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
If interested, I’d take Beilein in an instant. Who cares how old he is? Built excellent WV & Mich programs. Does it the right way. We don’t need a 30 year wonder coach. . .we need a turn around guy who can place us where we want to be and who can then turn over control to one of the great young coaches who will really want to inherit all we will represent. He’ll be looking for legacy. . .carries no risk.
 
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oldcougar77

All-Big Ten
Apr 21, 2004
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You’re not the only one who has said this. But it’s totally unsupported. This is more of an irrational fear than something grounded in history or evidence.



I’d actually say this rule favors a coaching change....especially when (as you correctly say) we have a shortage of talent right now.

This rule gives a new coach a rare opportunity to reset his roster faster than he otherwise would.

I’d say the danger, with this rule, is having a lame duck coach. With that much roster flux, who’s going to transfer to a guy who probably won’t be there much longer?



If the first statement were true, the second and third wouldn’t be the case. But they are the case.

Archie Miller is not a damn good coach. He’s a failure - at least at this level.



1) I’m glad you’re not running things.

2) The expense of firing him is the only sensible reason not to. Every single other factor favors cutting bait.

3) There’s nothing left to be uncertain of. His teams — all four of them — have been average to below average. There’s nothing left to see, there will be no payoff.
I considered the transfer rule actually helping with a rebuild. But I have a sense that nearly every player would leave and I don't have confidence that someone could build anything close to a competitive roster by successfully finding 13 new players. I'm skeptical that a new coach could land 7 or 8 quality transfers.

Archie is a damn good coach. Ask the other guys on the lists presented here of "people we should hire". Then ask them if they feel the same way about Tom Crean. That doesn't mean Archie is a great fit or the right guy for this job. I'm not making that assertion. If he's fired this season, he doesn't have much of a defense (unless things take a drastic turn for the better in the coming weeks). If things continue their current course, you won't hear me on here complaining that he was treated unjustly. Recruiting quality players and getting them to give great effort consistently is part of the job. My statement about Archie being a damn good coach is more about his knowledge of the game and ability to compete against better talent. Ask Tom Izzo about that. But a coach at Indiana shouldn't be competing against superior talent - he should be successful at recruiting equal or superior talent. I'm not seeing that any more than the rest of you.

I do think it's a little disingenuos for some here to be crowing about how IU should have hired Holtmann. Hindsight is a nice luxury that Fred Glass didn't have. There was nothing in Holtmann's resume vs. Archie's to suggest that he was a better hire. He inherited a really good situation at Butler and did very well. Archie built an outstanding program at Dayton. Both looked like "cant-miss" hires and choosing one over the other wasn't obvious to anybody. Any one who says that is a liar, or a narcissist like IGW (who wouldn't admit he was wrong about anything under any circumstance. If he mistakenly sat a Porterhouse steak on top of a pile of dog shit he'd swear it was the world's best marinade and nobody else but him was smart enough to recognize it). The fact that it hasn't worked out is not the fault of the folks who hired him. There was nothing to suggest they made a bad decision at the time.

As for firing him next year instead of this, I stated my thinking in an earlier thread and I do think that yes, $15 million is an unjustifiable buyout when you face the financial restrainst Covid has crated. I also believe in honoring a contract, unless the employee has given you just cause to terminate beyond a lack of success in the WL column. I don't have much optimism that next year is going to be some kind of "breakthrough" year but I do think we'll be much better on experience alone. And I think TJD returns simply because he has to know his game isn't adequate for the NBA and won't be by next fall. I'm inclined to think we won't be noticeably worse off in two years if we wait to make the move after next year rather than this. And we save $9 million - more if Archie willingly resigns after year five. If there's a Brad Stevens out there in April 2021 that won't be there in April 2022, I would change my mind. Either way, I won't make the claim that Archie wasn't given a fair shot. I'm just not excited at the prospect of a firing followed by mass player defections and a wiped-out recruiting year that put us where we were when Crean got here or even when Archie got here. I'd like to avoid that scenario at all costs.
 

ufo33

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Greg Marshall, Steve Alford, Thad Matta, Dane Fife, Rick Pitino, Bruce Pearl, Randy Wittman, Brad Stevens, John Beilein
 
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T.M.P.

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It's pure fantasy lacking a single grain of reality.
Few will never leave Gonzaga for another college coaching position. He most likely will never leave Gonzaga for any other job.
This whole thread is fantasy.

We have multiple votes for another fake orange used car salesman, then an overrated chronic drunk that just got fired from a mid major for being a raving asshole, a coach who bought his players really ugly prostitutes that was fired for cheating, and a legacy rape enabler whose personality is so toxic, unbearable and narcissistic that he was fired for it.

*eyeroll*

The more games we lose the dumber this fanbase becomes. Miller better get his sh*t together or these guys will need drool bibs and safety helmets to post, if they don't already.
 
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