1. Yogi
Troy Williams played 3 seasons in the NBA. Miller Kopp will be lucky to play in Armenia.
I'm not arguing Kopp is a better player than Williams. Kopp won't sniff the NBA. My point was that Williams' TO and D would have put him on the bench. The only reason Kopp saw so much time is that he usually took care of the ball and could be counted on to be in the right spot on D compared to better players/athletes behind him. I guess at the root of it, I was actually comparing Bates to Williams in that Bates was an example of how too many TOs and poor D was going to land you on Woody's bench, despite the guy in front of you (Kopp) being limited offensively.
LOL that's ridiculous. JBJ, RJ, and Zeisloft would have been better options to replace Kopp than Williams. I can't believe you included freshman year OG over Thomas Bryant and JBJ. Comically bad take on your part.
I went back and watched. Troy played at the 4 a lot. A better comparison is Troy vs other 4s. I know in Creans system he liked versatile guys 1-5. OG had games where he played 3 different spots. It’s hard to compare with Crean teams because of that. I think Troy had close to 100 turnovers his last season. Yikes!
JBJ got hurt that year moron and Thomas Bryant wouldn't have been that big of a need with TJD being there. You asked me to rank who I thought would have made this years team better, a hurt JBJ and Thomas Bryant coming off the bench does nothing.
Hey Moron, JBJ was still on the team. Other than Yogi he would have been the best player to have on last year’s team.
why does every thread end up with everyone calling each other a moron , dumbass or worse, Coach Geez is the best poster on this board because he gives facts and opinions in his statements, and knows what Hes talking about
Where did I say that? You confusing me with one of the other 5 posters telling you that you are crazy?
Without question? 97 turnovers? You still have to factor that Troy played at the 4.
You drinking early today, Kurt? I didn’t see anyone say Miller Kopp was a better basketball player than Troy Williams.
It is about how each one fit. I’m just not sure Troy would’ve slotted in on this team to best suit him. Maybe the 3 but he wasn’t best there. At the 4? His turnovers would’ve definitely been a factor for playing time. I’d say he would’ve backed up race at the 4 or he would’ve started over race with race backing him up. His TO ratio was just terrible. We know how woody feels about that.
Blackmon is significantly better than Troy Williams as a perimeter scorer and Williams obviously doesn’t compare to JBJ’s shooting ability. Last year our biggest issues were perimeter scoring and shooting. Williams doesn’t address those issues.
He probably would have started at the 3, but wouldn’t have made the team much better because it would have just allowed teams to clog the paint even more than they already were.
Still waiting for you to defend Troy Williams being a better offensive player than James Blackmon Jr. I’ll keep saying it until you either take it back and admit it was a dumbass comment, or you try to actually defend it.
Our biggest need was at the 2-3 granted but I’m just not sold on him playing 25 min turning the ball over. Now I’ll go learn Basketball. Don’t you have a bet to settle on GBM?
You claim to know basketball, yet you are going to die on this hill. Now that you have doubled down on your dumbass take, I'll put you in your place with stats.
Thanks for the words Kurt. Yeah I try to avoid these hostile arguments, unless of course it's one of our rival brethren piling on, but this thread has gotten silly.
someone had the YouTube clip up the other day of when IU beat UK in the tournament , Troy was very good that game, something else that stuck out we probably had better talent that year than UK which hasn't been the case very often in the last 30 years, Jamal Murray is a helluva player but they really fell off after him, UK was still loaded with McDs AA;s but it turned out to be a very weak class, I think Skal Labrisse [SP] was the number 1 player in the country coming out of HS,
Lol you want me to take the year where JBJ's numbers were better? Okay....
Not my fight but don't see much there that points to JBJ being much better than anything but a better 3 point shooter. I think that's what Tim is hinting at. OBPM is significantly skewed in this instance in my opinion because Blackmon got hurt in the non-conference and really only played inferior competition outside 2 or 3 games.
Tyler Ulis was a very good PG, AA that year. JBJ being out injured allowed for a guy like OG to come in and guard Murray who he made life miserable, 8-17 from the floor and 1-9 from 3. Murray would have eaten JBJ's lunch and then some.
That's why I initially used their respective Jr years. Even then Blackmon's numbers are significantly better than Williams. Given that Blackmon took significantly more 3s, Williams FG% should be significantly higher, but it wasn't because JBJ was also great inside the arc. He is a true 3 level scorer. Williams was a dunker.
Not at all. See coach post below.
I saw Geez's post. It didn't change anything. You seem to get lost in the conversation a lot, because this is about who the better offensive player is, not who the better basketball player is. Offensively, it's not close. Defensively it's also not close and Williams wasn't even a good defender. Who you would take is more about team need. Last year's team needed JBJ more than they needed Troy Williams.
No it didn't. Last years team needed at net positive out of Kopp's position. It got nothing. Williams is a better defender and way better offensive player than Kopp. Last year's team needed a guy who could guard the other teams best perimeter player and manufacture points from a perimeter spot. Blackmon is capable of doing one of those things, Williams both. Williams equaled Stewart and Kopp's production by himself and you wouldn't have had to give anything up defensively. Try and keep up.
The need was the wings2-3. So both could be applicable. We needed a volume wing shooter and a dynamic 3. Choose which one or both. Both spots are hard to guard unless a team played us. We weren’t hard to guard at all.
You are saying things that don’t matter. Both JBJ and Williams would have been an upgrade to Kopp. JBJ would have been the bigger upgrade.
JBJ wouldn't be end at the end of a close game because he couldn't guard anybody. What don't you understand about this? JBJ's defensive rating was horrible, he was an absolute liability every single time he stepped on the court. IU's defensive efficiency would have taken a massive hit with JBJ's presence on the court and it would have been magnified playing at the direct pace that Woody likes to play. You can get away with poor defensive possessions from time to time when you play at the pace that Crean's team did because even poor defensive possessions don't automatically equate to a missed shot, but you cannot play a defender as bad JBJ at Woody's tempo. It's why guys like Bates and Geronimo sat as much as they did. Their negative defense far outweighs any kind of offense they may bring.
This just makes no sense. Of course JBJ would be in at the end of games. He’s a proven clutch player and would have been the team’s best free throw shooter which is obviously needed for late game fouling. Now they would have probably done offense/defense substitutions like most teams do, but he would have definitely been out there.
