It's a major red flag when a DII player can make your two deep

[jlasson]

I said this when Hanna announced his commitment(and I was met with abrupt disapproval by the Hiller defenders), but I bring it up again because there are a lot more people on this board during football season than there were back in late spring/early summer when he committed. Unless your an All-American, there's absolutely no reason for D-II players to beat out anyone but at the big ten level but maybe true freshman. Frankly there's no reason they should even be able to earn a scholarship in the era of the transfer portal. Hanna's only individual accolade at his prior school was 2nd team all conference three years ago. I want to make it clear that I have nothing against this kid, of the starting O-linemen he does seem to be in contention for the highest motor in the room so I tip my cap to him for his effort, but the difference in talent level between D-II and Big Ten is staggering.

Last year, the week before we ran through Idaho like a Mack truck, they played a D-II team, they won the game 68-0. Now from the basic research I've done, the D-II program Idaho played was pretty bad even at the D-II level, but that should still give you some context as to the difference between FCS and D-II. From everything I saw, even though Hanna struggled mightily yesterday against the first real opponent we've seen, but Josh Sales came in and looked even worse. Sales is your standard three star kid, he had plenty of other P5 offers coming out of HS, point being, he was certainly qualified when he came in. I know he's still only a redshirt freshman, but he looked brutal in the few snaps I keyed in on him, he's been in the Hiller school of O-line for over a year now and has shown absolutely no development from the time he came out of HS.

Obviously this echoes the sentiment that's been very common on this board over the last 24 hours, but it's just embarrassing that Hiller is still on the sideline. From the AD's perspective, even if you're frustrated with Allen (which again Cincy is a good FB team, so I personally don't think the sky is falling on the season just because we lost yesterday), there's no way you are going to buy him out of his mammoth of a contract this early. But the least you can do is force him to get rid of a failed assistant and buy said assistant out of their (significantly less expensive) contract. I honestly don't think we can even assess Bell at this point, he's working with one of the worst if O-line's in P5 football, and he had no say in the O-line coach. It's holding back the team and there's simply no urgency for change from anyone within this football program. I'm done hearing the "It's not to our standard" line from Allen or Dolson, you can talk the talk, but the (lack of) actions have spoken a lot louder than the words, this coach has not met the standard of a big ten football program for at least two full seasons.

 

[TMFT]

Generally speaking, most D2 players won’t compete well at the P5 level.

But I think you’re making too broad of statement here. Walk ons and JUCO kids make starting lineups every year at schools all over the P5. From a HS recruiting level, I can’t imagine the avg D2 scholarship kid is miles away from the avg D1 walk on.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

I said this when Hanna announced his commitment(and I was met with abrupt disapproval by the Hiller defenders), but I bring it up again because there are a lot more people on this board during football season than there were back in late spring/early summer when he committed. Unless your an All-American, there's absolutely no reason for D-II players to beat out anyone but at the big ten level but maybe true freshman. Frankly there's no reason they should even be able to earn a scholarship in the era of the transfer portal. Hanna's only individual accolade at his prior school was 2nd team all conference three years ago. I want to make it clear that I have nothing against this kid, of the starting O-linemen he does seem to be in contention for the highest motor in the room so I tip my cap to him for his effort, but the difference in talent level between D-II and Big Ten is staggering.

Last year, the week before we ran through Idaho like a Mack truck, they played a D-II team, they won the game 68-0. Now from the basic research I've done, the D-II program Idaho played was pretty bad even at the D-II level, but that should still give you some context as to the difference between FCS and D-II. From everything I saw, even though Hanna struggled mightily yesterday against the first real opponent we've seen, but Josh Sales came in and looked even worse. Sales is your standard three star kid, he had plenty of other P5 offers coming out of HS, point being, he was certainly qualified when he came in. I know he's still only a redshirt freshman, but he looked brutal in the few snaps I keyed in on him, he's been in the Hiller school of O-line for over a year now and has shown absolutely no development from the time he came out of HS.

Obviously this echoes the sentiment that's been very common on this board over the last 24 hours, but it's just embarrassing that Hiller is still on the sideline. From the AD's perspective, even if you're frustrated with Allen (which again Cincy is a good FB team, so I personally don't think the sky is falling on the season just because we lost yesterday), there's no way you are going to buy him out of his mammoth of a contract this early. But the least you can do is force him to get rid of a failed assistant and buy said assistant out of their (significantly less expensive) contract. I honestly don't think we can even assess Bell at this point, he's working with one of the worst if O-line's in P5 football, and he had no say in the O-line coach. It's holding back the team and there's simply no urgency for change from anyone within this football program. I'm done hearing the "It's not to our standard" line from Allen or Dolson, you can talk the talk, but the (lack of) actions have spoken a lot louder than the words, this coach has not met the standard of a big ten football program for at least two full seasons.

Fair comments and suggestions seems to me.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

Fair comments and suggestions seems to me.

I was referring to Dolson/Hiller.

I tend to agree a big, Texan D2 player may enough spit and desire, just like a Juco kid, to be able to compete in D1, especially at 22 yrs old. I am not saying Hanna is a stud, just not generalizing think it needs to be a player by player thing.

 

[jlasson]

I was referring to Dolson/Hiller.

I tend to agree a big, Texan D2 player may enough spit and desire, just like a Juco kid, to be able to compete in D1, especially at 22 yrs old. I am not saying Hanna is a stud, just not generalizing think it needs to be a player by player thing.

Generally speaking, most D2 players won’t compete well at the P5 level.

But I think you’re making too broad of statement here. Walk ons and JUCO kids make starting lineups every year at schools all over the P5. From a HS recruiting level, I can’t imagine the avg D2 scholarship kid is miles away from the avg D1 walk on.

When comparing D-II to Juco, it's important to remember that only the top 40/60 Juco kids receive any P5 offers, and that's including the roughly 10/15 per year that had P5 offers out of HS and weren't academically inclined. NTM almost anyone that goes from juco to P5 is first team all conference, if not All American. Camper was the number one Juco reciever in the country by 247 sports ratings, he was first team all conference yet we were his only P5 offer.

I do agree with the sentiment that I don't need to generalize every D-II player as completely unable to play for a P5 team. But I do think it's clear that far more often than not your average Juco/Walk On/DII player is not qualified to be an every down starter. That's not to say there aren't exceptions, Matt Holt saw significant time against Cincy and I thought he held his own quite well. But again, I'm also using my eyes, the Scoop and Score was just the tip of the iceberg for Hanna's struggles yesterday.

The entire game he was either in Bazelak's face, or Bazelak was flushed because of his end getting off the block. I'm not exactly PFF but by my count he gave up two sacks and had two holding calls against him, amongst Idk how many times Bazelak had to evade the end he's responsible for blocking. I don't care if he is a "big 300 pound 24year old texan" Idk why people cite his home state so frequently. I feel people just assume the DII football is better because it's in the south, but either way, Hanna had his lunch money taken by a backup with 0 career sacks before he played IU.

 

[82hoosier]

Per Google there about 50 division 2 and 3 players in the NFL. I don't know how many of them are linemen.

 

[jlasson]

Per Google there about 50 division 2 and 3 players in the NFL. I don't know how many of them are linemen.

Lol, don't take this the wrong way, but what is the point to this comment, because I already said there are obviously exceptions, my point is simply that at no point in Hanna's career did he ever prove he was a standout at the D-II level enough to be recruited by a P5 school, and through three starts, it does not look like he can survive against this level of competition.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

When comparing D-II to Juco, it's important to remember that only the top 40/60 Juco kids receive any P5 offers, and that's including the roughly 10/15 per year that had P5 offers out of HS and weren't academically inclined. NTM almost anyone that goes from juco to P5 is first team all conference, if not All American. Camper was the number one Juco reciever in the country by 247 sports ratings, he was first team all conference yet we were his only P5 offer.

I do agree with the sentiment that I don't need to generalize every D-II player as completely unable to play for a P5 team. But I do think it's clear that far more often than not your average Juco/Walk On/DII player is not qualified to be an every down starter. That's not to say there aren't exceptions, Matt Holt saw significant time against Cincy and I thought he held his own quite well. But again, I'm also using my eyes, the Scoop and Score was just the tip of the iceberg for Hanna's struggles yesterday.

The entire game he was either in Bazelak's face, or Bazelak was flushed because of his end getting off the block. I'm not exactly PFF but by my count he gave up two sacks and had two holding calls against him, amongst Idk how many times Bazelak had to evade the end he's responsible for blocking. I don't care if he is a "big 300 pound 24year old texan" Idk why people cite his home state so frequently. I feel people just assume the DII football is better because it's in the south, but either way, Hanna had his lunch money taken by a backup with 0 career sacks before he played IU.

Matt Holt is a walk on LB from Center Grove, not a Juco or D2. (And that kid has a nose for the FB too!)

 

[82hoosier]

When comparing D-II to Juco, it's important to remember that only the top 40/60 Juco kids receive any P5 offers, and that's including the roughly 10/15 per year that had P5 offers out of HS and weren't academically inclined. NTM almost anyone that goes from juco to P5 is first team all conference, if not All American. Camper was the number one Juco reciever in the country by 247 sports ratings, he was first team all conference yet we were his only P5 offer.

I do agree with the sentiment that I don't need to generalize every D-II player as completely unable to play for a P5 team. But I do think it's clear that far more often than not your average Juco/Walk On/DII player is not qualified to be an every down starter. That's not to say there aren't exceptions, Matt Holt saw significant time against Cincy and I thought he held his own quite well. But again, I'm also using my eyes, the Scoop and Score was just the tip of the iceberg for Hanna's struggles yesterday.

The entire game he was either in Bazelak's face, or Bazelak was flushed because of his end getting off the block. I'm not exactly PFF but by my count he gave up two sacks and had two holding calls against him, amongst Idk how many times Bazelak had to evade the end he's responsible for blocking. I don't care if he is a "big 300 pound 24year old texan" Idk why people cite his home state so frequently. I feel people just assume the DII football is better because it's in the south, but either way, Hanna had his lunch money taken by a backup with 0 career sacks before he played IU.

It's 150 kids from juco that get power 5 offers. It's all out there at the tip of your fingers. I was surprised also!

Speaking of jucos, Cam Camper has been a great pick up this year